PL issues

  • Thread starter Thread starter Susan Bugher
  • Start date Start date
Semolina Pilchard said:
Heaven
forfend that I should make an already overheated situation worse.
Click to expand...

In all honesty, I am completely puzzled by the tone of this thread.
How a simple desire to improve the PL has shifted into a personal attack is
really beyond me.
 
"Genna Reeney" <[email protected]> says
in
message news:[email protected]...
Click to expand...
In all honesty, I am completely puzzled by the tone of this
thread. How a simple desire to improve the PL has shifted
into a personal attack is really beyond me.
Click to expand...

Sorry to cut in here. But I agree, I have to say, I am very
puzzled and confussed by this thread, too. All I know was
that according to Susan (OP), Genna made a suggestion (in
fact, a natural suggestion), personally to her, that the PL
site is good to have a database format. Naturally, Susan
started a disscussion regarding this (just like discusing all
other suggestions, to see how one can do it, or whether it is
practical, given the manpower we have). Of course one would
need help and support for this, who wouldn't, this is a big
job; discussions are therefore normal. On the other hand,
there are no reasons to assume that Genna would not like to
see discussions on this issue, either. Every thing just
sounds pretty normal as it goes.

But, then somehow somewhere someone mentioned that the site
and domain is paid for by Genna, so we should not be bother to
discuss the suggestion or we need to "move the site". Then I
am very, in fact, extremely, lost about what is going on.
Thinking that I might be missing something. What is the
different between Genna vs. someone else is paying for the
domain name and the site (regarding the database format or
not)?? I am so glad that someone is willing to give out their
personal information and money to deal with this. If not
Genna, someone, whoever it is, would need to do this, the site
would therefore somehow be "owned" in this respect, but
according the that logic, no one else can contribute or
discuss about it.

However, that doesn't sound like what either Susan and Genna
have implied or suggested and is not what had been gone on for
years here, either.
 
Maybe you didn't personally and directly, but now that I see that the CD
project was a private venture, it explains why there was so much regarding
it that took place behind closed doors as well as why the attempted hacks
against my ftp server after I put the a.c.f. CD files up there for download.
I had no less than 20 IP's that were put into the block list for one of 3
main reasons...running scripts, attempting to go outside the designated
folders made available to anonymous login, attempting to manipulate
files...particularly attempting to add and/or delete and/or replace files in
the a.c.f. CD programs folders.

Personally, I couldn't care less whether you did it directly or whether or
not you were responsible or whether or not you had anything directly to do
with it. The point I'm making is that I'm starting to see more and more
reasoning behind the attempted hacks and the events regarding the CD project
that were intentionally hidden from public view because it would cause a
conflict with baiting the "blind sheep".
 
Maybe you didn't personally and directly, but now that I see that the CD
project was a private venture, it explains why there was so much regarding
it that took place behind closed doors as well as why the attempted hacks
against my ftp server after I put the a.c.f. CD files up there for
Click to expand...
download.

Ceg -

I don't understand why you say it is a private venture. If you have evidence
that it is, then you should present it to the group, as I am quite certain
that many here would object to the Pricelessware name being used to further
individual agendas and goals.

I am interested that you indicate that much of the discussion about this
project took place behind closed doors. Perhaps those that were directly
involved could clarify matters for you on this point.
I had no less than 20 IP's that were put into the block list for one of 3
main reasons...running scripts, attempting to go outside the designated
folders made available to anonymous login, attempting to manipulate
files...particularly attempting to add and/or delete and/or replace files in
the a.c.f. CD programs folders.
Click to expand...

I am sorry that you have run into these problems.
It is an unfortunate side-effect that those who volunteer server space are
often the victims of hacking attempts.
Personally, I couldn't care less whether you did it directly or whether or
not you were responsible or whether or not you had anything directly to do
with it.
Click to expand...

I hope that you will forgive me, but I do care about the distinctions, since
two of these options make me a participant in rather unsavory conduct. My
only concern has ever been to preserve the spirit behind the creation of the
PL. I am quite certain that hacking is not a part of that.

If other people are engaging in illegal behavior and/or had ulterior motives
in setting up the CD in the first place, that matter should be investigated.
The point I'm making is that I'm starting to see more and more
reasoning behind the attempted hacks and the events regarding the CD project
that were intentionally hidden from public view because it would cause a
conflict with baiting the "blind sheep".
Click to expand...

I can't speak as to the reasons for keeping the CD project from public view,
though I suspect that there may have been a concern about the minutiae
clogging up the newsgroup with OT discussion.

It doesn't follow that the subsequent hacks are related to those who
initially worked on the CD. It could simply be the work of those lurking the
newsgroup.
 
||> Genna Reeney emailed me a few days ago regarding the Pricelessware site.
|> She wants to change the site to a database format. We have had some
|> email correspondence.
|
|The change to a database format was something that I had working on a couple
|of years ago.
|The idea behind it was to make the site more user-friendly, in that it would
|be easier to navigate, easier to search. From the behind-the-scenes aspect,
|it would mean that the site would be much easier to maintain.
|
|I don't see why this is a problem.

Hi Genna,

I was pleased to see your name appear in the newsgroup once again. Hope
you and yours are in good health and spirits. By the way, smashing job
at being you. :)

Tramp
 
Genna said:
The change to a database format was something that I had working on a couple
of years ago.
The idea behind it was to make the site more user-friendly, in that it would
be easier to navigate, easier to search. From the behind-the-scenes aspect,
it would mean that the site would be much easier to maintain.

I don't see why this is a problem.
Click to expand...
Ahem.

I will vouch for the veracity of this. Genna approached me years ago
with the idea of eventually moving to a database format as even then
the sheer scope of the work involved was becoming unmanageable.

Anyone can see that the PL list has grown much larger and will continue
to do so at an exponential rate.

BTW Genna bought the domain name so that Pricelessware would have a
stable home. She even (snif) dedicated it to me. Although it's been a
while since it last happened, regular ACF folks know that my site goes
down on occasion. I tell you now (I'm a little embarrassed about this)
it's because I have **NO MONEY** (and probably never will)and sometimes
can't pay my ISP.

Ladies and germs, please listen to an old fart for a moment. The reason
people talk on the phone is because words on a page bring nothing of the
context of the message or the feelings of the writer with them....why do
you think smileys were invented? I don't think we actually have a
<disagreement> here, just some confusion.

Now let's bury the hatchet <<In The Ground>> shall we?

Cheers!

Son Of Spy

--

Some You Won't Find Anywhere Else...

http://www.sover.net/~wysiwygx/index.html

. --- . . - - - - - - - - - - - -
/ SOS \ __ / Freeware - - - - - -
/ / \ ( ) / - - - - -
/ / / / / / / \/ \ - - - -
/ / / / / / / : : - - -
/ / / / / ' ' - -
/ / //..\\
=====UU==UU=====
'///||\\\'
' '' '
 
Genna said:
By the same token, if Susan wants to be involved, there is NO reason why she
should not be.
Click to expand...

I replied to a message which assumed, several times, that Susan would
take care of this new task. That is why I, and others, reacted against
that assumption.
That would be entirely her choice.
Click to expand...

Of course.
 
You and I will will be the only ones with the password, and I know didly
squat about web pages - except to visit them and download from them;
therefore, it will be your baby.

: PuppyKatt wrote:
:
: > My ISP offers me 15MB of webspace, and it is php/mysql based. I
just
: > spoke with thec support, and I am allowed to "donate" this page.
: >
: > Susan, you have my e-mail address, so if you are seriously thinking
of
: > switching, let's chat.
:
: Thanks PuppyKatt.
:
: I have limited access to the PL site - that creates problems (I was
: unable to upload to the site for several days last week).
:
: Lack of access and lack of communication are a *really* bad
combination.
:
: In the absence of any word from Genna, I think we need to seriously
: consider a change of site.
:
: Comments from the group please.
:
: Susan
:
: > : > : burnr wrote:
: > :
: > : > @corp.supernews.com:
: > : >
: > : >>Genna Reeney emailed me a few days ago regarding the
Pricelessware
: > : > site.
: > : >>She wants to change the site to a database format. We have had
some
: > : >>email correspondence.
: > : >>
: > : >>IMO further discussion should be in the newsgroup.
: > : >>
: > : >>I have many unanswered questions. . . What are the *details* of
the
: > : >>proposed plan: who, what, why, where, when, how - especially
who. .
: > .
: > : >>
: > : >>There are related issues that need discussion - I'd like to
resolve
: > : > this
: > : >>issue/proposal first if we can. . .
: > :
: > : > I'm quite sure there will be no lack of volunteers to help you
with
: > a
: > : > transition to a new site. For what it's worth, I've installed
and
: > used
: > : > about 7 different cms sites and ultimatly settled on e-xoops,
now
: > named
: > : > runcms, for it's ease of use and security.
: > :
: > : Certainly a new site is one possibility if there is no response
from
: > : Genna or if this can't be resolved to the satisfaction of
newsgroup
: > : participants.
: > :
: > : The web pages are quite portable in their *present* format. All
that's
: > : required is PHP capability - and about 10 MB of web space (don't
know
: > : about bandwidth requirements).
: > :
: > : > Whichever solution you choose, if it is php/mysql based, I'd be
: > happy to
: > : > help where I can. IMO you've done a great job with PW and I hope
you
: > : > continue with the "job". :)
: > :
: > : Thank you. :) I have certainly been looking forward to acting as
point
: > : person during the selection of PL2005. . .
: > :
: > : Susan
: > : --
: > : Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org
: > : PL2004 CD http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/CD2004PL.htm
: > : alt.comp.freeware FAQ:
http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html
: >
: >
:
:
: --
: Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org
: PL2004 CD http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/CD2004PL.htm
: alt.comp.freeware FAQ: http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html
 
In all honesty, I am completely puzzled by the tone of this thread.
How a simple desire to improve the PL has shifted into a personal attack is
really beyond me.
Click to expand...

Geena and Susan - I think that whether someone is right and someone is
wrong is irrelevant.

If you can simply state that you have an idea for the pricelessware
web page, and want to propose this to this group, then you should go
ahead and do this.

The tone arose because Geena was silent in the group - for all we
know, you may have been on leave or something.

Let's start afresh - what changes are being proposed, and why - let
the debate begin openly without any baggage ?
 
BTW, the website I am offering is FREE. It is included in the cost of
my dad's and my DSL fees, and I am offering it to this group because
neither me nor my dad need the space; we don't have a clue in that
regards, so it may as well be put to good use. You never have to worry
about it getting killed, because my dad pays the bills, and the fee for
our internet comes out of his account. Susan, please email me, because
there is other (confidential) information I must give you.
skorolyk(at)mts.net

: PuppyKatt wrote:
:
: > My ISP offers me 15MB of webspace, and it is php/mysql based. I
just
: > spoke with thec support, and I am allowed to "donate" this page.
: >
: > Susan, you have my e-mail address, so if you are seriously thinking
of
: > switching, let's chat.
:
: Thanks PuppyKatt.
:
: I have limited access to the PL site - that creates problems (I was
: unable to upload to the site for several days last week).
:
: Lack of access and lack of communication are a *really* bad
combination.
:
: In the absence of any word from Genna, I think we need to seriously
: consider a change of site.
:
: Comments from the group please.
:
: Susan
:
: > : > : burnr wrote:
: > :
: > : > @corp.supernews.com:
: > : >
: > : >>Genna Reeney emailed me a few days ago regarding the
Pricelessware
: > : > site.
: > : >>She wants to change the site to a database format. We have had
some
: > : >>email correspondence.
: > : >>
: > : >>IMO further discussion should be in the newsgroup.
: > : >>
: > : >>I have many unanswered questions. . . What are the *details* of
the
: > : >>proposed plan: who, what, why, where, when, how - especially
who. .
: > .
: > : >>
: > : >>There are related issues that need discussion - I'd like to
resolve
: > : > this
: > : >>issue/proposal first if we can. . .
: > :
: > : > I'm quite sure there will be no lack of volunteers to help you
with
: > a
: > : > transition to a new site. For what it's worth, I've installed
and
: > used
: > : > about 7 different cms sites and ultimatly settled on e-xoops,
now
: > named
: > : > runcms, for it's ease of use and security.
: > :
: > : Certainly a new site is one possibility if there is no response
from
: > : Genna or if this can't be resolved to the satisfaction of
newsgroup
: > : participants.
: > :
: > : The web pages are quite portable in their *present* format. All
that's
: > : required is PHP capability - and about 10 MB of web space (don't
know
: > : about bandwidth requirements).
: > :
: > : > Whichever solution you choose, if it is php/mysql based, I'd be
: > happy to
: > : > help where I can. IMO you've done a great job with PW and I hope
you
: > : > continue with the "job". :)
: > :
: > : Thank you. :) I have certainly been looking forward to acting as
point
: > : person during the selection of PL2005. . .
: > :
: > : Susan
: > : --
: > : Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org
: > : PL2004 CD http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/CD2004PL.htm
: > : alt.comp.freeware FAQ:
http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html
: >
: >
:
:
: --
: Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org
: PL2004 CD http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/CD2004PL.htm
: alt.comp.freeware FAQ: http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html
 
Thanks for your offer of help.
As a search in Google will show, I have asked in the past for anyone with
experience in setting up databases if you would be willing to help out.
Click to expand...

I would be happy to help where I can. Susan works hard on PL and does a
great job. IMO, a database backend would certainly make the site easier to
maintain as the content grows. With a cms, Susan and yourself could easily
administer the site and manage groups of people or individuals to help
maintain and build the site.

I'm no expert and have *very* limited experience with 6-7 systems that I
played with, but would consider myself at an average level (maybe a tad
higher) of understanding of runcms that I use for my sites. But I offer
what little help I can give :)
 
Genna said:
By the same token, if Susan wants to be involved, there is NO reason why she
should not be.
That would be entirely her choice.
Click to expand...

I can think of ONE reason.

I only speak HTML (and the tiniest bit of PHP). Does a non-swimmer have
the choice to swim to shore from the middle of an ocean?
Agreed. But as to what Susan can or cannot manage to do, I would not presume
to speak FOR her.



This is precisely why this is the right time to be tackling this project.
The 2005 PL is MONTHS away, we have time to switch and work out the kinks,
if we can get this off the ground.
Click to expand...

Early 2006 is a MUCH BETTER target date - after PL2005 - that's only a
few months further away.

Susan
 
Genna Reeney said:
No, before
Click to expand...

The tone I read into Susan's post had me thinking there was some private
arguing going on amongst you.
It now seems as if that wasn't so. If it *was* like that it's probably
better that remained private.
I main own the domain, but the list is not the individual property of
any one person of this group, but the result of the group consensus.
Click to expand...

As owner of the domain, you also own everything on it. The newsgroup
participants have no legal status to own anything, unless some type of
foundation were to be organized allowing people to become members and
take an active role in its operation. Such as, perhaps, an IRC
501(c)(7).
Sigh...
Google is your friend: http://spyproductions.com/
Chosen to pay homage to the person who originally created the list.
Click to expand...

Ha! Well, a big huffy sigh right back at you. :)
Actually, Google is my best friend. I did look up everything, even the
original posts on Pricelessware. That's why I thought the whois was
funny. Unless, you're still at that address and phone number?

Have fun!
 
Yes I agree completely about the PL an intregal part of this group. That
could be done in a text file although it wouldn't be as easy to access
and would be tough keeping it updated.

As a validated leach myself with many of the PL programs happily working
their magic on my hard drive, I do not see where I, as a long time
lurker and occasional poster in this group has any say about what format
the site takes on, or even if it exists at all? Of course that being
said I am forever grateful it is there. My thinking is that we (almost
all of us) pay nothing and do nothing for the site except use it. As a
result we have become wery spoiled, imo. We have our own web site with
the best freeware in the world, sorted, indexed, etc.

Now if the site should ever go away PL does indeed belong to this group
and should not be retained by another. If that was what OP was dancing
around, then I retract my first post and most of this post also. I did
not read that in OP. Thanks.
 
Genna Reeney said:
download.

Ceg -

I don't understand why you say it is a private venture. If you have evidence
that it is, then you should present it to the group, as I am quite certain
that many here would object to the Pricelessware name being used to further
individual agendas and goals.
Click to expand...

Before you decide to misinterpret my original post, why don't you go back
and read it again. Apparently, you're reading something into it that isn't
there.
I am interested that you indicate that much of the discussion about this
project took place behind closed doors. Perhaps those that were directly
involved could clarify matters for you on this point.
Click to expand...

One point...look at your license regarding the CD project. What percentage
of preparation of that was conducted publicly...if this is a public project?
Your license is literally a piece of crap and has more holes than swiss
cheese. It reeks of someone taking maybe 3 minutes to rip some half-read
license out of some half-baked program written by some 4th grader in his
first week of VB. As much as I followed the threads when it was being
generated, I didn't see a whole lot on that matter. Another point...was it
put to some kind of open discussion about what permissions would be
requested from the various authors and distribution houses? Not that I saw.
I read this group on a daily basis.
files

I am sorry that you have run into these problems.
It is an unfortunate side-effect that those who volunteer server space are
often the victims of hacking attempts.
Click to expand...

I have no use for an apology from you nor anyone else. The point here that
you either don't see or are evading is that these were not just idle hack
attempts...they were directed at the a.c.f. CD program files.
 
Genna said:
This is misleading.
Nominations are in November.
There is no hatchet about to fall here. There is time to implement a
database format.
Click to expand...

There is a *longer* period of time available between PL2005 and PL2006.
Discussions and decisions can be made in the group. They would not affect a
move to a database.
Click to expand...

I will be point person in those discussions. That takes time.
Susan, you seem to have taken a personal issue with me and I am quite
puzzled as to why.
I have championed you from the start and have always complimented you on
your hard work and service for this group. I am saddened that in return, you
are quick to dismiss me.
Click to expand...

Genna, why do you say that?

You have disagreed with me most emphatically on several occasions. I did
not take that as a personal attack. We may disagree on issues. That does
not change my high regard for you.

Susan
 
BTW...IMO y'all should have set your website up on some form of SQL or MySQL
when you first put it together.
 
Ceg said:
Maybe you didn't personally and directly, but now that I see that the
CD project was a private venture, it explains why there was so much
regarding it that took place behind closed doors as well as why the
attempted hacks against my ftp server after I put the a.c.f. CD files
up there for download. I had no less than 20 IP's that were put into
the block list for one of 3 main reasons...running scripts,
attempting to go outside the designated folders made available to
anonymous login, attempting to manipulate files...particularly
attempting to add and/or delete and/or replace files in the a.c.f. CD
programs folders.

Personally, I couldn't care less whether you did it directly or
whether or not you were responsible or whether or not you had
anything directly to do with it. The point I'm making is that I'm
starting to see more and more reasoning behind the attempted hacks
and the events regarding the CD project that were intentionally
hidden from public view because it would cause a conflict with
baiting the "blind sheep".
Click to expand...

Oh, no! You're on to us!
I thought for sure we would get away with it but it took a big brain
like you to figure it out.
The jig is up everyone. The Society of PW2004 Burners (sopB) is now
officially disbanded.

Or, on second thought, maybe people were doing that just because they
thought you were an idiot.

:) <-- Look! a smiley!
 
Alastair said:
Let's start afresh - what changes are being proposed, and why - let
the debate begin openly without any baggage ?
Click to expand...

Sounds like sense to me. We seem to have gotten well away from my OP
which simply asked:

What are the *details* of the proposed plan: who, what, why, where,
when, how

Susan
 
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