PL issues

[dszady]

Whoa! Let's back up a bit. Genna's done a great deal for the group. I
appreciate her efforts and I'm sure her plans are intended to benefit the
group.

The problem is *communication* with the group - or rather lack of
communication. . . the Pricelessware web site *is* a group thing and
decisions about is should be made in the group. . .

I think the Pricelssware List *will* have to move from the present site -
IMO as we leave we should thank Genna for providing that site for several
years.

Whoa. Let's not back up a bit. The group evolves. Is all the work you've
done for her? Was it done for yesterday?
It's not what a person has done in the past that counts. It's what a
person does now.
Yes that was nice of her. She's NOT nice now. Maybe tomorrow she'll be
nice.
But since no one knows what transpired between you two the rest of the
people are left in the dark.
Is she nice or not? Why does the site have to change venues?
What are you hiding Susan?

 

[Genna Reeney]

Can you be more specific as to what Genna had to say and what is the
reason for the change?

POKO -

If the above reply does not satisfy, please ask additional questions.

 

[Genna Reeney]

Genna Reeney emailed me a few days ago regarding the Pricelessware site.
She wants to change the site to a database format. We have had some
email correspondence.

The change to a database format was something that I had working on a couple
of years ago.
The idea behind it was to make the site more user-friendly, in that it would
be easier to navigate, easier to search. From the behind-the-scenes aspect,
it would mean that the site would be much easier to maintain.

I don't see why this is a problem.

 

[Genna Reeney]

Was this after the "PING: Son of Spy" post?

No, before

Don't bother, unless you *really* want to fight it.
Pricelessware is "owned" by "Genna Reeney".

I main own the domain, but the list is not the individual property of any
one person of this group, but the result of the group consensus.

Looks like Pricelessware is a sham. "Spy Productions"?

Sigh...
Google is your friend: http://spyproductions.com/
Chosen to pay homage to the person who originally created the list.

 

[Genna Reeney]

I'm quite sure there will be no lack of volunteers to help you with a
transition to a new site. For what it's worth, I've installed and used
about 7 different cms sites and ultimatly settled on e-xoops, now named
runcms, for it's ease of use and security.

Thanks for your offer of help.
As a search in Google will show, I have asked in the past for anyone with
experience in setting up databases if you would be willing to help out.

 

[Genna Reeney]

If I was Susan I would say that it is enough work keeping the current
system updated. If somebody else wants to convert the current site to a
database system they are welcome to do it.

By the same token, if Susan wants to be involved, there is NO reason why she
should not be.
That would be entirely her choice.

Until the new system is working the old system has to be kept rolling as
before. I don't think Susan needs another job to take care of on top of
the fantastic job she already is doing.

Agreed. But as to what Susan can or cannot manage to do, I would not presume
to speak FOR her.

It could take months or years to get the new system working so well that
it can replace the old system.

This is precisely why this is the right time to be tackling this project.
The 2005 PL is MONTHS away, we have time to switch and work out the kinks,
if we can get this off the ground.

 

[Genna Reeney]

If it ain't broke why fix it????????????

Because as the years go on, the amount of archived data becomes greater.
Because a database format would make the listings easily classifiable,
changes more manageable and maintenance much simpler.
Because it would make it easier to search for specific information.

 

[Genna Reeney]

Certainly a new site is one possibility if there is no response from
Genna or if this can't be resolved to the satisfaction of newsgroup
participants.

I don't understand this response.
Why would a decision by this group to keep the current format necessitate a
move?

Thank you. I have certainly been looking forward to acting as point
person during the selection of PL2005. . .

I don't think anyone has suggested otherwise.
But I also don't think that precludes involvement by other members of this
group who would show any interest or desire to be a part of the process.

 

[Genna Reeney]

I have limited access to the PL site - that creates problems (I was
unable to upload to the site for several days last week).

This is incorrect.
The only thing you do NOT have access to is the main page for the simple
reason that it would give you access to the Control Panel which contains my
financial information.

As for the inability to access the site, I still don't know what the problem
was, but that was corrected within a couple of days. I don't believe that
has ever happened before.

I don't appreciate your attempts to present a one-time occurence as a
systemic problem.

Lack of access and lack of communication are a *really* bad combination.

Whoa...
Again, lack of access is not an accurate statement. See above.

I am puzzled as to what you would refer to as lack of communication.

 

[Genna Reeney]

Could you e-mail me with all that's gone on that has led to this. I
understand your situation being the webmaster with your hands tied
behind your back, but I can't really give any input without some
background,

POKO -

This is NOT an accurate representation of the situation.

 

[Genna Reeney]

A change of site unfortunately seems appropriate and inevitable, IMHO.

Why?

 

[Ceg]

That certainly throws some new light on a few things. If the a.c.f. CD
project is really a project of a privately held interest, that would help
explain why there were some things that seem to have taken place regarding
the CD project behind closed doors while just enough was kept in the
newsgroup to keep baiting people. This would also shed new light on why the
"less than moral" and "less than legit" actions took place to include the
attempted hacks on my ftp server after announcing that I was making the
a.c.f. CD available for download.

 

[Genna Reeney]

dszady's post is not appearing on my server, so responding to this point
here.

1) There is NO fishy domain registration.
2) There is NO clandestine maneuvering. I had contemplated the move to a
database several times, simply because I was looking into the future to a
time where it would become unmanageable. The idea was simply to streamline
and make the job of maintenance of the PL easier.

The problem is *communication* with the group - or rather lack of
communication. . . the Pricelessware web site *is* a group thing and
decisions about is should be made in the group. . .

I agree with this, except that this is not a content issue.
This is a technical issue, akin to changing the look of the pages for the
new list each year. With the added benefit of having a finished product that
would simplify maintenance and make the end-product much more user-friendly.

I think the Pricelssware List *will* have to move from the present site
- IMO as we leave we should thank Genna for providing that site for
several years.

I don't follow the logic here.
Why would it have to move from its present location?

You will forgive me but I see this as a specific slam against me.

I don't see why a desire to improve the PL with an eye towards the future
results in a proposal to move the site elsewhere. It is illogical.

 

[Genna Reeney]

That certainly throws some new light on a few things. If the a.c.f. CD
project is really a project of a privately held interest, that would help
explain why there were some things that seem to have taken place regarding
the CD project behind closed doors while just enough was kept in the
newsgroup to keep baiting people. This would also shed new light on why the
"less than moral" and "less than legit" actions took place to include the
attempted hacks on my ftp server after announcing that I was making the
a.c.f. CD available for download.

This is not accurate.
For the record, I have had nothing to do with the CD project whatsoever and
have no knowledge of what did happen off-list.

Please do not make unsubstantiated accusations.

Thanks.
Cheers,
Genna

 

[Genna Reeney]

I have no idea what's going on here but that's a normal condition for
me, anyway.

There is nothing nefarious, contrary to the tone that this thread has taken,
but a simple desire to make the content of the PL simpler to manage and
easier to access.

More importantly, Susan, it's unfair that you should be burdened with
a huge amount of work on top of what you've done, and are doing, on
behalf of the group.

I would like to clarify that I did NOT ask Susan to undertake this project.
It is not my style to dump extra work on others.

I said it before and I will say it again. How much Susan wants to take on is
up to Susan and Susan alone.

 

[Ceg]

Rightttttttttttttttt.....whatever.

This is not accurate.
For the record, I have had nothing to do with the CD project whatsoever and
have no knowledge of what did happen off-list.

Please do not make unsubstantiated accusations.

Thanks.
Cheers,
Genna

 

[Genna Reeney]

The start of nominations for the next PL is not all that far away.

This is misleading.
Nominations are in November.
There is no hatchet about to fall here. There is time to implement a
database format.

There
are things I need to do to - web pages to set up. There are discussions
that must be held - decisions the group needs to make between now and
then in regard to the voting and selection process.

Discussions and decisions can be made in the group. They would not affect a
move to a database.

The present state of uncertainty is unfair to *everyone* - we need to
move ahead. A new web site looks like the next topic of discussion. Do
we want one site, mirror sites, a network of sites with different parts
hosted at different locations (there's a little of that now). . . We
may need a new domain name. . .

Susan, you seem to have taken a personal issue with me and I am quite
puzzled as to why.
I have championed you from the start and have always complimented you on
your hard work and service for this group. I am saddened that in return, you
are quick to dismiss me.

 

[Genna Reeney]

Seems to me it is her site and she takes care of it. No one forces any of
us to go to the site. I do not pay anything to access the site, so I should
have no valid input on what the owner(s) want to do with the site.

You want an awful lot for something you leach from.

I will respectfully disagree.
The PL was and will always will be the child of this group.

 

[Genna Reeney]

Rightttttttttttttttt.....whatever.

Ceg -

I repeat, I had nothing to do with the CD project.
Anyone who did can easily verify this fact.

 

[Semolina Pilchard]

There is nothing nefarious, contrary to the tone that this thread has taken,
but a simple desire to make the content of the PL simpler to manage and
easier to access.

I understand.

I would like to clarify that I did NOT ask Susan to undertake this project.
It is not my style to dump extra work on others.

I said it before and I will say it again. How much Susan wants to take on is
up to Susan and Susan alone.

If what I said appeared to imply criticism of you, Genna, please be
assured that I didn't mean it that way. If that's how it seemed, I
apologise. Bear in mind that I had no idea what the cause of the
problem was; I merely expressed the opinion that it would be unfair
that Susan should shoulder additional work alone. I understand that
you didn't ask Susan to take on the work she has done; I don't think
anything I said implied that. My wish was only to help.

I remember and respect the enormous amount of excellent work you did
and the last thing I would wish to do is cause you offence.
Similarly, I have high regard for Susan for the same reason. Heaven
forfend that I should make an already overheated situation worse.