My god some people are slow.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Steve
  • Start date Start date
I agree. If your first clue is that you cannot even find the email that has
your product key then think!
 
Not addressed to dotcom, but adding to what he said:

I used to be an automobile mechanic (circa 1970). I decided that breaking
things was part of learning. Working with computers has not changed my
mind.

Even so, use a little common sense. Do not upgrade production or main home
machines to buggy, unstable, Beta test operating systems with all your data
on them, without even backing up first.

Todd
 
How some of them find their way home everyday, gives one pause...

Well, on the bright side, we may very well have met a future Darwin Award
winner right here in this newsgroup!


I can't believe what I'm reading here. If you don't know how to do the
following you shouldn't mess around with operating systems (especially beta
version):

Paritioning
Dual booting
DVD ISO buring
Writing burn CD Keys
Changing BIOS settings
 
It's not a matter of conceit. If they bothered to read the red warning text
before even downloading Vista Beta, they would read:

"Beta 2 is intended for developers, IT
professionals and technology experts to continue or begin their testing of
Windows Vista."

Further it says:

"Before you decide to use Beta 2, you should feel
comfortable with installing operating systems, updating drivers, and general
PC troubleshooting."

In other words, it's frustrating for guys that "should" be running this beta
to troubleshoot valid issues and bugs when half the posts are related to
questions that have nothing to do with issues and bugs. But rather "help, I
hate Vista Beta because it has bugs (as if they couldn't anticipate that
being a beta), and I've overwritten XP and didn't bother to backup any of my
data".

So, allow us to let off some steam about it and whine and bitch from time to
time. It seems to help. :)

-Larry
 
Granted the horsies have lots of water; but they ain't drinkin'. Whatcha
goin' do 'bout that? Jane C. Jellybean gonna loan them some batteries?

------------------
"That's not his point at all, and you know it. His point is that if you
are at this point in your learning curve, you should NOT be installing the
beta of an OS."

"Except that the disclaimers on GetReady do not say "use this download to
increase your skills from newbie to proficiency." It says it is for
developers, IT professionals, and technology specialists."
------------------
I would just spend this energy *fretting* making tutorials in all these
subjects with screenshots easily available on the web. Then the people you
fret about either read it and use it or they don't. Or you could spend this
time working to make the decrepit horrible American education system better.
25% of Americans don['t graduate high school; and of the ones that do a
sizable number are barely literate. Then there is the problem of Americans
who are literate, but don't have a clue what's going on. Work towards
solving that one.

If people don't have incentive to do a few mouse clicks to get up to speed
on those topics, why would they give a damn what disclaimers say or release
notes, ect. Of course not so lol why cite them as if you were getting
supporting,controling authority in a brief?

The point is simple all you fretters. You can lead a horsie to water. But
you cannot make it drink. no matter how much you dunk the horse head in.
All of these topics listed and several that weren't that should be standard
for any new pc user to learn are easily found on the web with a few clicks.
People using Beta software, software RTM'd that is still very much Beta like
the OS's and Office suites MSFT produces all have the web. If you feel
passionately about people being competent in these topics then urge MSFT to
require a certification exam to be passed before their marketing machine
offers Beta software to the masses. But require the same certification in
those topics for the MSFT MVPs, TAP, TBTs, MSDNers, and Techneters because
many of us have helped all of those categories get things done in the
categories that were listed by Steve and someone else.

If people haven't honed these skills, no time like the present. You can
make tutorials or link them to the hundreds that abound on the web, but how
ya gonna make the horsie drink?

Here's the thing about the topics what have been listed that you should know
how to do very soon after you use a computer. MSFT has socially engineered
the above posters in this thread to provide very competent help and you are
doing it. That's what they have you for. Below the enterprise and partner
levels, MSFT like most companies provides literally the shitiest PSS
available Beta or not beta--that's because as in nearly everything that
comes out of Redmond, money is a consideration although it must be getting
expensive for Chris Jones and his Vista beta team to be paying outside
programmers $4000 a day right now in a frantic effort to debug Vista
because the greedy 300 OEM named partners are screaming for their twice a
decade hardware sales goose.That's a lot better than their Vista Code Master
Challenge Pays http://www.codemasterchallenge.com/rules.aspx

Everyone of these topics invoked however, (and they are essential to know
Beta or no Beta) are very easy to teach and learn are a few mouse clicks
away. The only requirement is to have the curiosity and motivation to learn
them and acess to the internet. Back in the day long ago, you couldn't just
point the mouse and type a little and have great teaching references. You
would have had to buy a book or go to a library (most public libraries are
sadly out of date and have a bad selection of computer and software books),
Here's the thing about all them topics what have been listed that you should
know how to do very soon after you use a computer.

MSFT has socially engineered the above posters in this thread to provide
very competent help if and when people don't master these areas. Below
the enterprise and partner levels, MSFT like most companies provides
literally the shitiest PSS available Beta or not beta--that's because as in
nearly everything that comes out of Redmond, money is a consideration
although it must be getting expensive for Chris Jones and his Vista beta
team to be paying outside programmers $4 grand a day right now to debug
Vista.That's a lot better than their Vista Code Master Challenge Pays
http://www.codemasterchallenge.com/rules.aspx

Everyone of these topics invoked however, (and they are essential to know
Beta or no Beta) are very easy to teach and learn are a few mouse clicks
away. The only requirement is to have the curiosity and motivation to learn
them and acess to the internet. Back in the day long ago, you couldn't just
point the mouse and type a little and have great teaching references. You
would have had to buy a book or go to a library (most public libraries are
sadly out of date and have a bad selection of computer and software books),

To substitute for their completely worthless tech support whether the topic
is Beta that is not directly supported or the RTM software that will still
have quite a bit of beta characteristics whenever it is released (Office
held up a little so what who cares fine with me). Lol since in fact most
people on your street and in your business don't use many more features in
their Office 2003 and Office 2007


Word 97 vs. Word 2007: Out of the boOffice 97 was the first version of
Office with command bars...Given that fewer than 2% of Office 2003 users
customize their UI according to the data reported through the Customer
Experience Improvement Program, the out-of-the-box experience is the one
most users will see.

Word 2007 document area: 1007 x 573 pixels
Word 97 document area: 979 x 573 pixels

Horizontally, you gain 28 pixels of space in Word 2007 out-of-the-box. On a
web layout or landscape-oriented document, this advantage would be most
useful.

Results: Arial 10 pt., Page Layout View

Word 97: 26 lines of text
Word 2007: 26 lines of text


WEST PALM BEACH, Florida (AP) -- Rush Limbaugh will likely have to wait
several days to find out if he violated his deal with prosecutors in a
prescription fraud case when authorities found him with Viagra that was
apparently prescribed to someone else, a spokesman for the state attorney's
office said Tuesday. Brave Republican conservatives who have had 3 wives
travel with someone else's name on their Viagra. But they are entertaining
for their hypocrisy. Get this. "To protect his privacy--the same fat slob
who is shouting it's Okay to wiretap you and put your bank transactions on a
federal data base, track your internet keystrokes, and data mine every phone
call you make. According to the Drug Enforcement Administration, Viagra is
not considered a controlled substance because "it's not something you can be
addicted to," said DEA Investigator Maria Gilbert. I wouldn't be so sure
about that. Rushie said: "I had a great time in the Dominican Republic. Wish
I could tell you about it." He had a great time on one of thirty Viagra
because one was missing. Time is the operative word there.

CH
 
My God some of you people are conceited. Sure you've been at this longer
then some of the rest of us, sure some of those who downloaded Vista as part
of the CPP program are not technically proficient enough to handle the
learning curve. But trust me on this, very few of you are rocket scientists
either. You have one advantage, you have been at this longer. Get over your
condescending attitudes. If you have nothing constructive to add to the
conversation then keep your snide remarks to yourself.
Click to expand...

snip

Personally I have not been at this PC game very long, only since
Windows 3.1 and there was a time when I was totally clueless about
even the simplest things. I taught myself the hard way by breaking PCs
then screaming for help. I freely admit I am not a trained pro but I
know enough to get out of and into most things and more importantly I
know what I cannot do and how to find out because as you rightly say
my advantage is experience.

Actually I am a electronics engineer / mechanic but I ended up working
in the IT world almost by accident as the only guy in the company who
new how to set up an e mail account back in 1990, so I got the job.

Trouble with this Beta is that too many people a lot lower down the
learning curve have been given access to something they are just not
ready to deal with. MSFT have been very specific with warnings and
disclaimers but in the real world nobody reads instructions or
warnings till it all goes pear shaped and MSFT must have realised
this. I certainly did not I just broke stuff through inexperience and
lthen learnt what I had done wrong but the very first and most
important lesson I learned when starting out was how to always have a
good backup.

Sadly not many ever seem to have a backup these days, I have 3 x PCs
on my bench being cleaned out and re-installed with XP at great cost
to the owners and no backups so I am charging for the extra work
involved in data recovery when possible.

From the responders POV the first 50 replies to "How do I uninstall
Vista" or "Got no CD Key" or "Why does xyz not work in Vista" are OK
but after that even the most patient of us get cynical. I must admit I
find this NG interesting, sometimes amusing and sometimes totally
hysterical.

Besides which this is Usenet its not the AOL help line, since when
have NGs been patient and kind to idiots? most of em get KFed, this NG
has been helpful way beyond the call of duty and stiill is.

If MSFT want to pay the main guys in here for the sterling work they
do like Andre, Colin and the rest of the guys then fine you can have a
go at condescending attitudes, otherwise get over yourself, who made
you the NG police?

OTOH why don't you handle the next 50 "Help I overwote my XP with
Vista" yourself, see how long you last?

8-)

Jonah
 
Jeeze Chad you sure you don't get paid by the word?

LOL

Jonah
Granted the horsies have lots of water; but they ain't drinkin'. Whatcha
goin' do 'bout that? Jane C. Jellybean gonna loan them some batteries?

------------------
"That's not his point at all, and you know it. His point is that if you
are at this point in your learning curve, you should NOT be installing the
beta of an OS."

"Except that the disclaimers on GetReady do not say "use this download to
increase your skills from newbie to proficiency." It says it is for
developers, IT professionals, and technology specialists."
------------------
I would just spend this energy *fretting* making tutorials in all these
subjects with screenshots easily available on the web. Then the people you
fret about either read it and use it or they don't. Or you could spend this
time working to make the decrepit horrible American education system better.
25% of Americans don['t graduate high school; and of the ones that do a
sizable number are barely literate. Then there is the problem of Americans
who are literate, but don't have a clue what's going on. Work towards
solving that one.

If people don't have incentive to do a few mouse clicks to get up to speed
on those topics, why would they give a damn what disclaimers say or release
notes, ect. Of course not so lol why cite them as if you were getting
supporting,controling authority in a brief?

The point is simple all you fretters. You can lead a horsie to water. But
you cannot make it drink. no matter how much you dunk the horse head in.
All of these topics listed and several that weren't that should be standard
for any new pc user to learn are easily found on the web with a few clicks.
People using Beta software, software RTM'd that is still very much Beta like
the OS's and Office suites MSFT produces all have the web. If you feel
passionately about people being competent in these topics then urge MSFT to
require a certification exam to be passed before their marketing machine
offers Beta software to the masses. But require the same certification in
those topics for the MSFT MVPs, TAP, TBTs, MSDNers, and Techneters because
many of us have helped all of those categories get things done in the
categories that were listed by Steve and someone else.

If people haven't honed these skills, no time like the present. You can
make tutorials or link them to the hundreds that abound on the web, but how
ya gonna make the horsie drink?

Here's the thing about the topics what have been listed that you should know
how to do very soon after you use a computer. MSFT has socially engineered
the above posters in this thread to provide very competent help and you are
doing it. That's what they have you for. Below the enterprise and partner
levels, MSFT like most companies provides literally the shitiest PSS
available Beta or not beta--that's because as in nearly everything that
comes out of Redmond, money is a consideration although it must be getting
expensive for Chris Jones and his Vista beta team to be paying outside
programmers $4000 a day right now in a frantic effort to debug Vista
because the greedy 300 OEM named partners are screaming for their twice a
decade hardware sales goose.That's a lot better than their Vista Code Master
Challenge Pays http://www.codemasterchallenge.com/rules.aspx

Everyone of these topics invoked however, (and they are essential to know
Beta or no Beta) are very easy to teach and learn are a few mouse clicks
away. The only requirement is to have the curiosity and motivation to learn
them and acess to the internet. Back in the day long ago, you couldn't just
point the mouse and type a little and have great teaching references. You
would have had to buy a book or go to a library (most public libraries are
sadly out of date and have a bad selection of computer and software books),
Here's the thing about all them topics what have been listed that you should
know how to do very soon after you use a computer.

MSFT has socially engineered the above posters in this thread to provide
very competent help if and when people don't master these areas. Below
the enterprise and partner levels, MSFT like most companies provides
literally the shitiest PSS available Beta or not beta--that's because as in
nearly everything that comes out of Redmond, money is a consideration
although it must be getting expensive for Chris Jones and his Vista beta
team to be paying outside programmers $4 grand a day right now to debug
Vista.That's a lot better than their Vista Code Master Challenge Pays
http://www.codemasterchallenge.com/rules.aspx

Everyone of these topics invoked however, (and they are essential to know
Beta or no Beta) are very easy to teach and learn are a few mouse clicks
away. The only requirement is to have the curiosity and motivation to learn
them and acess to the internet. Back in the day long ago, you couldn't just
point the mouse and type a little and have great teaching references. You
would have had to buy a book or go to a library (most public libraries are
sadly out of date and have a bad selection of computer and software books),

To substitute for their completely worthless tech support whether the topic
is Beta that is not directly supported or the RTM software that will still
have quite a bit of beta characteristics whenever it is released (Office
held up a little so what who cares fine with me). Lol since in fact most
people on your street and in your business don't use many more features in
their Office 2003 and Office 2007


Word 97 vs. Word 2007: Out of the boOffice 97 was the first version of
Office with command bars...Given that fewer than 2% of Office 2003 users
customize their UI according to the data reported through the Customer
Experience Improvement Program, the out-of-the-box experience is the one
most users will see.

Word 2007 document area: 1007 x 573 pixels
Word 97 document area: 979 x 573 pixels

Horizontally, you gain 28 pixels of space in Word 2007 out-of-the-box. On a
web layout or landscape-oriented document, this advantage would be most
useful.

Results: Arial 10 pt., Page Layout View

Word 97: 26 lines of text
Word 2007: 26 lines of text


WEST PALM BEACH, Florida (AP) -- Rush Limbaugh will likely have to wait
several days to find out if he violated his deal with prosecutors in a
prescription fraud case when authorities found him with Viagra that was
apparently prescribed to someone else, a spokesman for the state attorney's
office said Tuesday. Brave Republican conservatives who have had 3 wives
travel with someone else's name on their Viagra. But they are entertaining
for their hypocrisy. Get this. "To protect his privacy--the same fat slob
who is shouting it's Okay to wiretap you and put your bank transactions on a
federal data base, track your internet keystrokes, and data mine every phone
call you make. According to the Drug Enforcement Administration, Viagra is
not considered a controlled substance because "it's not something you can be
addicted to," said DEA Investigator Maria Gilbert. I wouldn't be so sure
about that. Rushie said: "I had a great time in the Dominican Republic. Wish
I could tell you about it." He had a great time on one of thirty Viagra
because one was missing. Time is the operative word there.

CH
Click to expand...
 
Jonah:
I agree, patience is a virtue that most don't exercise. I work as a
technical consultant in another field, at times there very good questions
that make us think, questions that require changes to correct errors, then
the majority that are plain dumb or lazy. We have to handle them all in the
same and professional manner. XP x64 and Vista x64 are a hobby for me and
an exercise in making things work, finding errors or solutions. I only
answer when I think that I may have a good answer or a solution. I read all
posts knowing that I don't have to answer or flame what I don't agree with.
The thing that we all have to remember is that no one has all the answers
and at one time we were looking for the same answers.
 
"Dennis Pack x64, v64B2 (5384), OPP2007B2" <[email protected]>
wrote in message
We have to handle them all in the
same and professional manner.


The only reason this statement is true for you is that if you did not you
would lose your source of income. You may wax philosophical about our moral
obligation to our fellow man, but the bottom line is, you have to be nice
because of money. Nobody is being paid to help people here, ergo, not the
same rules.
 
Mark said:
"Dennis Pack x64, v64B2 (5384), OPP2007B2"

We have to handle them all in the
same and professional manner.


The only reason this statement is true for you is that if you did not
you would lose your source of income. You may wax philosophical
about our moral obligation to our fellow man, but the bottom line is,
you have to be nice because of money. Nobody is being paid to help
people here, ergo, not the same rules.
Click to expand...

There is never an excuse for rudeness. I admit to sometimes writing very
sarcastic usenet replies but most of the time I hit delete instead of send.
None of this applies to trolls of course. It's only common sense to be rude
to trolls.
 
Mark said:
"Dennis Pack x64, v64B2 (5384), OPP2007B2"

We have to handle them all in the
same and professional manner.


The only reason this statement is true for you is that if you did not
you would lose your source of income. You may wax philosophical
about our moral obligation to our fellow man, but the bottom line is,
you have to be nice because of money. Nobody is being paid to help
people here, ergo, not the same rules.
Click to expand...

There is never an excuse for rudeness. I admit to sometimes writing very
sarcastic usenet replies but most of the time I hit delete instead of send.
None of this applies to trolls of course. It's only common sense to be rude
to trolls.

--
Kerry
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User



I remember one time when I was seven, my mom overheard me call a classmate
stupid. My mom made me apologize, so I looked at the kid and said, "I'm
sorry you're stupid." True story, ask my mom. Got the beating of my life,
too!

The moral of the story is, sometimes the initial pain of the truth, cold and
hard though it may be, is the first step towards true healing. Today that
kid is one of America's premier truck-drivers.
 
Mark said:
I remember one time when I was seven, my mom overheard me call a classmate
stupid. My mom made me apologize, so I looked at the kid and said, "I'm
sorry you're stupid." True story, ask my mom. Got the beating of my life,
too!

The moral of the story is, sometimes the initial pain of the truth, cold
and
hard though it may be, is the first step towards true healing. Today that
kid is one of America's premier truck-drivers.
Click to expand...

It is possible to be polite while informing someone they are stupid.
 
I have seen some of this "consultation in other fields" that are technical
and not primarily IT and have participated in it for a long time, and you
are dead wrong that the only reason that people who consult if they weren't
professional 1) would lose their income and are "only nice because of the
money." Likewise it doesn't hold that people can't be professional here
because they aren't being paid.

The situation is a lot more nuanced and granular. In many fields however,
people are professional because they got into them to solve problems and
help people, and I can assure you many of us in some fields could make a lot
more money with a lot less hassle that take a lot less patience and raw
hours per day in other fields.

My country is already seeing a sharp drop in these fields and it's not going
to get better.

CH
 
The best part of the MSKB on "How to Ask a Question" a variation of How To
Ask Questions The Smart Way

http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm and
is the Brad Smithism (VP
Legal Affairs MSFT) at the end.
They thought they needed a legal disclaimer for their MSKB on how to ask a
question. Quintissentially Redmond campusesque.

Brad Smith
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/bradsmith/default.mspx

This thing here :


COMMUNITY SOLUTIONS CONTENT DISCLAIMER
MICROSOFT CORPORATION AND/OR ITS RESPECTIVE SUPPLIERS MAKE NO
REPRESENTATIONS ABOUT THE SUITABILITY, RELIABILITY, OR ACCURACY OF THE
INFORMATION AND RELATED GRAPHICS CONTAINED HEREIN. ALL SUCH INFORMATION AND
RELATED GRAPHICS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND.
MICROSOFT AND/OR ITS RESPECTIVE SUPPLIERS HEREBY DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES AND
CONDITIONS WITH REGARD TO THIS INFORMATION AND RELATED GRAPHICS, INCLUDING
ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES AND CONDITIONS OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A
PARTICULAR PURPOSE, WORKMANLIKE EFFORT, TITLE AND NON-INFRINGEMENT. YOU
SPECIFICALLY AGREE THAT IN NO EVENT SHALL MICROSOFT AND/OR ITS SUPPLIERS BE
LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, PUNITIVE, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,
CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES OR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER INCLUDING, WITHOUT
LIMITATION, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF USE, DATA OR PROFITS, ARISING OUT OF OR IN
ANY WAY CONNECTED WITH THE USE OF OR INABILITY TO USE THE INFORMATION AND
RELATED GRAPHICS CONTAINED HEREIN, WHETHER BASED ON CONTRACT, TORT,
NEGLIGENCE, STRICT LIABILITY OR OTHERWISE, EVEN IF MICROSOFT OR ANY OF ITS
SUPPLIERS HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF DAMAGES.

CH
 
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