Da Vote: Move the Pricelessware site

  • Thread starter Thread starter Susan Bugher
  • Start date Start date
I suggest you read my posts. Nowhere did I suggest anything of the
sort. I repeatedly have said that she should move elsewhere if she
isn't happy with Genna's site.
Click to expand...

I sure didn't get that from what I've read John.

It's actually complicated by the fact there is a Pricelessware web
site, which is controlled by the active members of ACF, and a
Pricelessware.org domain, which is owned by an individual who has
generously paid the expenses for the web site (18 months prepaid it
appears).

The group was asked to decide whether the _Pricelessware web site_ is
moved from the current domain, _pricelessware.org_.

This is where the friction is and the proposed solution. This is a
physical separation of the two parties involved; the domain owner and
the web site maintainer.

If the move is elected I suggest we try to reimburse Geena for the
months paid in advance.
These threads are a total waste of everyone's time. If Susan wants to
move then she can. Her choice. Nothing has changed since post
number one on this issue.
Click to expand...

This is not a decision a single person makes John. The group, ACF, was
asked to vote on the fate of the PL web site. That's why the
discussion is here.
She could move then. She can move now. :-)
Click to expand...

I don't think we're on the same page.

She can move the pricelessware web site without a vote? No.
That's not how it works. You know this.

She can quit and create an alternate site? Yes, she could. That is not
at all the question posed here though.

Is your vote that the _Pricelessware web site_ move to another domain?

Or, is your vote that the _Pricelessware web site_ remain at the
current domain?

You have a vote as an active member. It is somewhat confusing in that
there are two entities that seemingly are tied together. They are not.

ACF holds the copyright on the Pricelessware web site if I'm not
mistaken. The domain is not owned by the group.

Do you understand what is being asked here now?
 
Susan Bugher wrote:

*Please* do not use this thread for comments - that makes it difficult
to count the votes.

The vote now stands at 34 in favor of the move, 14 opposed.

Susan

-------------

MOVE THE PL SITE:

Alex Balfour <[email protected]>
Ben A Gozar <[email protected]>
Ben Cooper <[email protected]>
BoB <[email protected]>
burnr <[email protected]>
Dan Goodman <[email protected]>
dszady_at_adnmail_dot_com
jo <[email protected]>
Larry Sabo <[email protected]>
mike ring <[email protected]>
Mister Charlie <[email protected]>
(e-mail address removed)
Omar© <[email protected]>
PuppyKatt <[email protected]>
REM <[email protected]>
(e-mail address removed)
Won Dampchin <TuDampchin@myrealbox_dont*like*spam_.com>
--------
Corncrake <[email protected]>
Roger Johansson <[email protected]>
Glenn <[email protected]>
Onno <[email protected]>
James <[email protected]>
BEGE´s <[email protected]>
Colin Williams <[email protected]>
Bobby <[email protected]>
Bill Day <[email protected]>
(e-mail address removed)
majales <[email protected]>
Bjorn Simonsen <[email protected]>
Bob <[email protected]>
Olaf Janson <[email protected]>
John H. <[email protected]>
POKO <[email protected]>
"Mad" <[email protected]>

DON'T MOVE THE PL SITE:

»Q« <[email protected]>
Genna Reeney <[email protected]>
"Jack D. Russell, Sr." <"jackru$$ell2"@notmail.com>
John Corliss <[email protected]#>
---------
bambam <[email protected]>
ranrad <[email protected]>
badgolferman <[email protected]>
(e-mail address removed)
Mel <[email protected]>
R. L. <ringomeinew@_hot_mail_.YOU_KNOW_THE_REST>
GoodTime Barnie <[email protected]>
jason <[email protected]>
vince <[email protected]>
Arne Anka <[email protected]>
 
This is my unresignation. Apologies for the previous over-reaction.
Click to expand...

Thank you *very* much! My respect for your timely reconsideration!
It was hard to *find* the votes in the 200* posts in "Irreconcilable
Differences" thread.

Any additions/corrections?
Click to expand...

This is the situation as I see it:
- I (like most acf regulars?) like the best-of-best freeware list, we
all agree upon (not only to answer FAQ posts but to award the best
freeware programs/programmers, too).
- Pricelessware is a handy term with a very nice touch of equivocation.
That's why I would like to keep it for the content *and* for the
web address.
- Setting up / maintaining a web page like PL needs immense efforts.
Dto. goes for organizing and utilizing the voting process. In no way
*I* could afford the required time and I don't see anybody else in
this group who could succeed you, easily. - Thanks for this, Susan!
- Paying the registration fees for the domain and the annual charges
for the webspace and therefore being the reference person for any
kind of lawsuit, too, is another selfless contribution to the PL
project. - Thanks for this, Genna!

Our big problem is to ensure nobody is arrogated beyond its readiness
for contribution *and* nobody can abuse its access rights to do sth.
the majority of acf doesn't approve.

The first thing seems easy. Everybody can do just as much as she/he
wants. But life isn't that simple. Susan, we all got used to you doing
all so quick and well. Maybe you now don't dare working less in order
to keep up your own standards? Don't do this! - Ask for help. Take a
rest *if in need*. Whatever.

The second point is much more complicated. In 'real life' these kinds
of things are done via some kind of foundation / trustee construct.
Just, who should be appointed trustee here? Up to now we were happy
with Genna holding the last key. (Not least because she paid for the
site.) If we release her of her responsibility - supposed she will
pass her domain (and maybe her webspace, too) to another trustee -
we ought to find a way to finance both, domain and webspace.

The payment issues could be dealt with a web-based account, everybody
who wants to could pay into. But even this arrangement leaves the
need of a trustee. If SOS (whom maybe most of us would think appropriate)
won't accept the responsibility: we maybe should ask if sb. in this
group is a lawyer and will take this duty over for free. This would
include managing the afore mentioned account and doing the necessary
formalities to keep the domain and the webspace up. She/he would have
to provide the webmaster(s) access but must be able to deny it on
request of a sufficient (how many?) count of members of acf. As of
her/his status 'lawyer' we could be sure (to a certain degree) that
she/he would act *as promised in public*.

Conclusion: *No vote here.* Either way could lead to good and awful
outcome. All of you can do as you like. After some time there (maybe)
will be something worth to appraise.

Sorry, if I bothered the group with the thousandth repetition of
arguments. I did it mainly to set my own thoughts in order and
didn't delete before sending because it may help other members of
acf, too.

BeAr
 
Henk said:
Having said this doesn't mean that I see Susan like an employee. More
important is that what you 'can' read 'between the lines'. I don't think
that it is any good for the site and for ACF when the site is moved,
just one person has access to that site, and that person stops after a
while, whoever that person may be. I think that we need a little more to
know about the future, in case we move the site. Until my questions are
answered, I don't vote.
Click to expand...

Henk, It's *not* going to be a one person site. I'll start a thread for
discussion of the details.
I noticed in other posts that some folks still want me to mediate if
possible. I am still available for this 'job'.
Click to expand...

There has been a *lot* of discussion - it is not always possible to
reconcile opposing viewpoints - sometimes the only way to go forward is
to make a change in the situation.

Susan
 
On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 06:26:24 -0500, REM wrote...
ACF holds the copyright on the Pricelessware web site if I'm not
mistaken.
Click to expand...

A newsgroup in the 'alt' hierarchy holds the copyright to *anything*? How
does that work then?
 
Susan Bugher wrote:
Click to expand...
The vote now stands at 34 in favor of the move, 14 opposed.
Click to expand...

There are some abstentions (like mine), too. They are normally of no avail
but show this time a particular discontent with the situation:

* Vote STAY and we maybe lose you as a maintainer of the site.
* Vote MOVE and we maybe lose the domain.

IMHO, we first should prepare a list of our (your) needs. After that we
should look for ways fulfilling them. *At last* we can vote. Therefore
abstentions also should be mentioned in your statistics.

BeAr
 
There has been a *lot* of discussion - it is not always possible
to reconcile opposing viewpoints - sometimes the only way to go
forward is to make a change in the situation.
Click to expand...
Yep...sometimes that's the only way out. So I'm making a change.
Adios, amigos.
 
A newsgroup in the 'alt' hierarchy holds the copyright to *anything*? How
does that work then?
Click to expand...

In the states a web based document is granted legal copyright upon
notice of copyright. You will see such notice on the PL pages Susan
prepared.

This is not a copyright for her, as PL is of, by and for, the active
participants of ACF.

Tiger coined the phrase "Pricelessware."

The botton of each "2004 Pricelessware" page:

"© alt.comp.freeware 1999-2004"


"What is Pricelessware?

The Pricelessware List reflects the programs favored by participants
in the alt.comp.freeware newsgroup; it is not an exhaustive list of
the best available Freeware. Most of the listings are well-known
programs, but there are some hard-to-find goodies to be discovered.
Although most categories will list only 1 or 2 selections, a few will
list 3-4 programs."


There is a differing copyright on the older pages:
Willow Brooke Mill © 2000-2002

These pages were created by someone else.
 
On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 07:58:50 -0500, REM wrote...
In the states a web based document is granted legal copyright upon
notice of copyright. You will see such notice on the PL pages Susan
prepared.

This is not a copyright for her, as PL is of, by and for, the active
participants of ACF.

Tiger coined the phrase "Pricelessware."

The botton of each "2004 Pricelessware" page:

"© alt.comp.freeware 1999-2004"


"What is Pricelessware?

The Pricelessware List reflects the programs favored by participants
in the alt.comp.freeware newsgroup; it is not an exhaustive list of
the best available Freeware. Most of the listings are well-known
programs, but there are some hard-to-find goodies to be discovered.
Although most categories will list only 1 or 2 selections, a few will
list 3-4 programs."


There is a differing copyright on the older pages:
Willow Brooke Mill © 2000-2002

These pages were created by someone else.
Click to expand...

Thanks for taking the time to explain REM. I'm still not sure however how
a transient entity such as ACF can hold anything, least of all a
copyright in the same way that an individual or organisation can.
 
Henk has not shown any qualities which would make him suitable as a
mediator, except for his own conviction that he would be suitable.
On the contrary, he does not even trust Susan (and us) to be intelligent
enough to make provisions for somebody else to take over if she suddenly
disappears.
Click to expand...

Good point.
 
domenica 27/giu/2004 _John Fitzsimons_ in
I suggest you read my posts. Nowhere did I suggest anything of the
sort. I repeatedly have said that she should move elsewhere if she
isn't happy with Genna's site.

These threads are a total waste of everyone's time. If Susan wants to
move then she can. Her choice. Nothing has changed since post
number one on this issue.

She could move then. She can move now. :-)
Click to expand...

John, you put it as it were a Susan's private issue.
For the true nature of her work, Susan needs the a.c.f. will and support.
It's not only a matter of what she can or can't do.

Regards, John.
Click to expand...

Ciao,
 
Corncrake said:
On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 13:21:45 -0500, "Mark Warner"


So, you are going to take on the job of doing PL on pricelessware.org
then ?
Click to expand...

No, he's too busy with his job in sensitivity training. :)
 
BEGE´s said:
Same here
Click to expand...
Make that three votes for: Susan's choice. So whatever that vote
means, that's my vote.
Thanks Susan for the excellent work you've done for years. I don't
visit as often, but I
do manage to get over here occasionally. Thanks again, and to all the
regulars who have
been helpful over the years.

Helen
 
Roger said:
Henk has not shown any qualities which would make him suitable as a
mediator, except for his own conviction that he would be suitable.
Click to expand...

I only offered to be at some help. When that is not appreciated just
let me know.....
On the contrary, he does not even trust Susan (and us) to be intelligent
enough to make provisions for somebody else to take over if she suddenly
disappears.
Click to expand...

I didn't know that it is forbidden to ask a few questions. Sorry for
this.... (not really)
And first of all, there is no need for any mediation anymore.
The failure to realize that also shows his lack of understanding.
Click to expand...

In my professional career mediation is one of the things that keep me
busy. I haven't seen any situation so far where, when all parties
really want to do this, there are no more talks possible. This means
that the parties involved *really* want to achieve some progress. If
not, there is no mediation possible. But I know: I'm just a beginner in
this: I'm on this job for not more than 23 years, and that makes me a
really *beginner*. Thanks for reminding me that.

With kind regards,

--
Henk de Jong
The Netherlands
(e-mail address removed) (Remove _NO_SPAM_)
'Links to Freeware'
http://www.linkstofreeware.vze.com/
http://home.hccnet.nl/hmdejong/
 
Susan said:
Henk, It's *not* going to be a one person site. I'll start a thread for
discussion of the details.


There has been a *lot* of discussion - it is not always possible to reconcile
opposing viewpoints - sometimes the only way to go forward is to make a
change in the situation.
Click to expand...

Susan,

Thanks for your answers so far. Would you please be so kind to answer
the rest of my questions?

With kind regards,

--
Henk de Jong
The Netherlands
(e-mail address removed) (Remove _NO_SPAM_)
'Links to Freeware'
http://www.linkstofreeware.vze.com/
http://home.hccnet.nl/hmdejong/
 
Yep...sometimes that's the only way out. So I'm making a change.
Adios, amigos.
Click to expand...

You'll be missed. Please do swing back by sometimes; maybe you'll
even find things a lot better then.
 
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