Athlon 64 X2 4600+ (939) & Abit AN8 'Fatal1ty': Compatible?

[Robert Redelmeier]

The crux of the hostility on the part of others in this thread,
is that I'm hateful and wrong for believing diversity is folly.

You are not hateful for your beliefs, however wrong they may be.
You might be hateful for rudeness or sloppy logic.

If you wish to argue against diversity, go ahead. It's
refreshing to see [mostly] old white men argue in favor
of it. You can hardly accuse anyone of self-serving bias!

But please define your terms well: Forced inclusion
of an underclass who are deprived of rights isn't
diversity. It's apartheid, Hutu/Tutsi, slavery, etc.

Diversity is more properly called Diversity & Inclusiveness.
It recognizes all as equals in dignity & rights even if not in
abilities and wealth. It works remarkably to the same extent it
is thoroughly implemented (US, Canada, Singapore, Switzerland).

I believe that, and I quote, "A diverse, peaceful, or stable
society is against most historical precedent." (Dick Lamm;

So is peace against historical precedent. That doesn't
make it undesireable.

Upon examining history, one finds that so-called 'diverse'
societies are in ceaseless conflict, rarely stable, and
always unhappy.

America? It has been about as diverse as Europe,
and a lot more peaceful.

Japan, I believe, should be the model of the West.
For Japan has a past, a present, and a future.

Interesting you should say that. Since the Meiji Restoration
(1856), they've been trying to learn from the West.
They don't like where they've been.

-- Robert

 

[aether]

Interesting you should say that. Since the Meiji Restoration
(1856), they've been trying to learn from the West.
They don't like where they've been.

-- Robert

Acquisition of Western technologies implies nothing. The UN, and other
international bodies, have recommended Japan destroy itself as Western
Europe and America are, but Japan has steadfastly refused. Japan will
remain Japanese.

 

[GSV Three Minds in a Can]

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips George Macdonald


A quick peek at headers seems indicate he's a Buckeye Cable
customer out of Toledo, OH. Or relaying.

Hm, I didn't think the KKK extended that far North .. maybe he's a
recent immigrant (or maybe my USA geography/politics is as bad as
his/its European geography/politics?)

 

[Robert Redelmeier]

Acquisition of Western technologies implies nothing.

It is far more that simply technology. Japan has chosen
to acquire many business methods and even social norms.

The UN, and other international bodies, have recommended
Japan destroy itself as Western Europe and America are, but

I don't have any idea of what you are referring to.

Japan has steadfastly refused. Japan will remain Japanese.

Of course it will. Japan will only be changed by the
Japanese. The same holds true for most countries.

-- Robert

 

[aether]

Of course it will. Japan will only be changed by the
Japanese. The same holds true for most countries.

-- Robert

Wrong. The Jews have long held sway in the West, financially and
through the media. Hitler and National Socialism was an attempt by
Europeans to reestablish control over their destiny.

The Japanese control their own destiny.

"The television medias that [the Jews] control broadcast into almost
every home in Britain, all day, every day. BBC television under the
Jew Alan Yentob broadcasts into almost every home all day, every day.
Likewise ITV, which is controlled by Carlton Communications plc under
the Jew Michael Green and by Granada plc under the Jew Steve Morrison,
each of which broadcasts to regions of 26 million, half of the
population, or more, all day, every day."

http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/shadow/jewishmedia_uk.shtml

"In fact, Meyer Amschel Rothschild and his sons virtually invented
modernized banking and finance. Not only did the powerful Rothschilds
control banking in Europe from approximately 1815 onward, but they also
purchased European news outlets -- including the Reuters news agency --
giving them the power to influence the opinions of millions of
gentiles."

http://www.whitealert.com/light_for_nations.htm

 

[Robert Redelmeier]

The Jews have long held sway in the West,

You have a very low opinion of the average western citizen.
Small wonder you advocate totalitairianism. I disagree on both.

The media tail does not wag the dog. Study Gail Wynand in
"The Fountainhead".

-- Robert

 

[keith]

You have a very low opinion of the average western citizen.

Those who have a low opinion of themselves tend to have a low opinion of
others.

Small wonder you advocate totalitairianism. I disagree on both.

The only one who wants totalitairianism is the totalitarian. The twit has
delusions of grandeur.

The media tail does not wag the dog. Study Gail Wynand in "The
Fountainhead".

This seven-year-old couldn't handle Batman.

 

[George Macdonald]

You have a very low opinion of the average western citizen.
Small wonder you advocate totalitairianism. I disagree on both.

The media tail does not wag the dog. Study Gail Wynand in
"The Fountainhead".

No, but it *does* work in varying degrees. His idol and principal
henchman, Goebbels, did not distribute free radios to the entire German
population so they could listen to inspiring music or world news. IIRC the
message was "Hitler... our man of peace!" It certainly works well in
suppressive societies but even in modern Europe, the media hysteria
campaigns on various modern hand-wringing (non-)issues have had a profound
effect.

Even in the U.S. people parrot what they hear from the likes of Dan Rather,
Mike Wallace[ptui] et.al... I mean if *they* say so, it's "gotta be true"
until.....

How do you account for the Muslim hysterical rhetoric? Ever watch an
evening of prime-time TV in a Muslim dominated culture?

 

[Robert Redelmeier]

No, but it *does* work in varying degrees. His idol and
principal henchman, Goebbels, did not distribute free radios to
the entire German population so they could listen to inspiring
music or world news. IIRC the message was "Hitler... our man
of peace!" It certainly works well in suppressive societies but
even in modern Europe, the media hysteria campaigns on various
modern hand-wringing (non-)issues have had a profound effect.

True. The media is not without influence. But IMHO it's
strictly limited by the perceived importance of the issue.
The media can easily sway masses when opinions are fluid and
not considered important. That's how Hollywood stars are sold.

But on graver matters, the media is nearly powerless.
(Even less now since they have more trouble burying news.)
Just like the blue-faced Intel dancers on us.
Of course, what people consider important varies.

How do you account for the Muslim hysterical rhetoric?

1) They're hysterical 'cuz they know they're wrong and
won't be believed any other way. I always equate
heat with light that just didn't make it.

2) Only the hysteria gets reported here, 'cuz it sells.

-- Robert

 

[George Macdonald]

True. The media is not without influence. But IMHO it's
strictly limited by the perceived importance of the issue.
The media can easily sway masses when opinions are fluid and
not considered important. That's how Hollywood stars are sold.

But on graver matters, the media is nearly powerless.
(Even less now since they have more trouble burying news.)
Just like the blue-faced Intel dancers on us.
Of course, what people consider important varies.

Sorry but I disagree... strongly. Social engineering driven mostly by a
new age of bigotry, based on misinfo, downright lies even, disseminated by
finger-wagging, head-nodding media hacks is having a field day right now,
IMO. As an example, the Euros are all pissed at us because we didn't sign
up for the Kyoto fraud. S'funny really because they are in general quite
cynical about their govts. and their policies, they're no "greener" than we
are really, yet they swallowed that one hook line 'n' sinker. It's just
what they heard on "the news".

1) They're hysterical 'cuz they know they're wrong and
won't be believed any other way. I always equate
heat with light that just didn't make it.

2) Only the hysteria gets reported here, 'cuz it sells.

I'm afraid I see it as a *lot* more sinister than you. The people at the
top of extremist Islamic activism are very strongly focussed in their
goals: the takeover of the entire world by Islam and the imposition of
Shariah on all. I'm sure I've posted this before
http://www.wehaitians.com/the philosopher of islamic terror.html
but I find it very convincing and alarming - it's long but worth the read.
In fact they "know" that they are "right"!

We need to waken up to this, it *is* a big threat and we've had enough of
such movements with an "intellectual hero" over the past century. That
they are able to motivate their rabble to the point of suicide speaks to
their ability to control their "media".

The actual results of the "philosophy" are clearly spelled out here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/26/i...=1085976000&en=404ec182641192df&ei=5087&nl=ep
All this "harmony" crap which Blair and his cronies are spouting is utter
BS and he knows it - he lives in "Londonistan"... and Lutonistan is just up
the road.

 

[aether]

Collectively, Westerners (i.e. Whites) are quite the self-destructive
bunch.

 

[Wes Newell]

Sorry but I disagree... strongly. Social engineering driven mostly by a
new age of bigotry, based on misinfo, downright lies even, disseminated by
finger-wagging, head-nodding media hacks is having a field day right now,
IMO. As an example, the Euros are all pissed at us because we didn't sign
up for the Kyoto fraud. S'funny really because they are in general quite
cynical about their govts. and their policies, they're no "greener" than we
are really, yet they swallowed that one hook line 'n' sinker. It's just
what they heard on "the news".

Now that I've removed the NG I read from this cross posted BS, you're all
a bunch of off topic cross posting morons. Have a nice day.

 

[Wes Newell]

Collectively, Westerners (i.e. Whites) are quite the self-destructive
bunch.

And you're an idiot, so what else is new.

 

[George Macdonald]

Collectively, Westerners (i.e. Whites) are quite the self-destructive
bunch.

According to the headers, this was a reply to me - you might try to conform
to Usenet norms and quote at least a piece of the post you are replying to.

Anyway, I hope you don't think I'm agreeing with you, in particular WRT to
your "solution". I tend to think the solution to the Islamic extremists is
going to have to come from within Islam itself... with the support of the
rest of the world.

 

[Robert Redelmeier]

new age of bigotry, based on misinfo, downright lies even,
disseminated by finger-wagging, head-nodding media hacks

Rather obvious today versus 100 years ago.

As an example, the Euros are all pissed at us because we
didn't sign up for the Kyoto fraud. S'funny really because
they are in general quite cynical about their govts. and
their policies, they're no "greener" than we are really,
yet they swallowed that one hook line 'n' sinker.

No, Europeans have always been greener than Americans
because they've had to be with their population density.
Killer fogs and river pollution.

http://www.wehaitians.com/the philosopher of islamic terror.html
but I find it very convincing and alarming - it's long but
worth the read. In fact they "know" that they are "right"!

Every extremist "knows" this. It is their hallmark.

That they are able to motivate their rabble to the point
of suicide speaks to their ability to control their "media".

No, it speaks to desparation and/or careful filtration.

The actual results of the
"philosophy" are clearly spelled out here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/26/i...=1085976000&en=404ec182641192df&ei=5087&nl=ep

Extremists might well strive, but it ain't gonna happen.
Any govt needs at least the tacit cooperation of its subjects.
Extremists can cause plenty of trouble, but cannot rule.

-- Robert

 

[Robert Redelmeier]

His idol and principal henchman, Goebbels, did not distribute
free radios to the entire German population so they could
listen to inspiring music or world news. IIRC the message
was "Hitler... our man of peace!"

I was a good deal more complex and still persists. The Big Lie
was not "peace". War did not upset the German populace at all.

The Big Lie was that people are members of a group greater than
themselves ("Volk"). And they might need to subordinate personal
desires for the betterment of this group. This subtext was extremely
well received and absorbed in Europe along with various conformant
organization and taxation changes. It persists to this day.

-- Robert

 

[borolad]

According to the headers, this was a reply to me - you might try to conform
to Usenet norms and quote at least a piece of the post you are replying to.

Given your observation on USENET norms, perhaps you, and all the other
crossposting - off topic posters would like to move your particular
brand of USENET terrorism to one of the many appropriate discussion
groups.

Anyway, I hope you don't think I'm agreeing with you, in particular WRT to
your "solution". I tend to think the solution to the Islamic extremists is
going to have to come from within Islam itself... with the support of the
rest of the world.

R'gards

¸ô¶ó

 

[George Macdonald]

Rather obvious today versus 100 years ago.


No, Europeans have always been greener than Americans
because they've had to be with their population density.
Killer fogs and river pollution.

I don't have any numbers on this but I'd figure 80-90% of Americans live in
an area of population density roughly the same as most Europeans. The fact
that there are vast swaths of land in the U.S. which are unused/unusable
doesn't really matter - major conurbations, where most jobs are
concentrated, seem to reach about the same saturation point.

It took them ~20years to catch up with us on exhaust emission WRT *real*
pollutants, like HCs, CO, NOx - the difference was striking until ~10years
ago. In the meantime, apart from the U.S.'s SUV abberation -- which they
also have to a lesser extent -- American cars have become much smaller and
efficient - more on a par with Euro-cars. I really don't see a lot of
difference in their use of energy or attitude to energy efficiency,
compared with the U.S. I visit regularly, have lived there and have
relatives there -- I rarely stay in hotels so am quite well informed -- and
apart from the same "greener than thou" bigots we have here, everybody
drives a vehicle which is much bigger than needed for 90% of its usage.
Hell they all have air-conditioners now, whether needed or not.

Sorry but that's an old myth.

Every extremist "knows" this. It is their hallmark.

I don't believe that those people, at the top of extremist Islam are in any
way acting overtly cynically here. They really do believe it is their
destiny to enforce Shariah upon the world... and that their religion's
dogma demands it.

No, it speaks to desparation and/or careful filtration.

Extremists might well strive, but it ain't gonna happen.
Any govt needs at least the tacit cooperation of its subjects.
Extremists can cause plenty of trouble, but cannot rule.

It's the "trouble" which is indeed in plenty... and with no apparent
solution in sight. What do you do with hoards of home-bred young adults
indoctrinated in the violent overthrow of the regime where you "happily"
pass your days? Put them in jail for sedition?... treason?... seems to be
out of fashion right now... if you listen to the U.K political angle over
the past few days. As I mentioned in another post, the solution would seem
to have to come from within the Muslim community - now how to motivate
them? Some profess outrage but but I haven't seen much action, or even
rhetoric, yet.

Even the U.S. is full of resident Islamic terrorist sympathizers. I don't
think I'm alone in having two local examples of people who, as it turned
out, knew that 9/11 was going to happen in the week before?... maybe I *am*
alone here??? Both were reported to the FBI BTW but no word was received
back on what transpired from it obviously.... kinda worrying that... that
they might not have been caught.

 

[George Macdonald]

On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 00:46:45 GMT, Robert Redelmeier

Hmm, I thought you'd already replied to this post.

I was a good deal more complex and still persists. The Big Lie
was not "peace". War did not upset the German populace at all.

Not even Dresden, Hanover, Hamburg? Seems like they felt pretty "upset" by
the end of the proceedings. As for "peace": obviously a nice
rationalization for man and his dog.

The Big Lie was that people are members of a group greater than
themselves ("Volk"). And they might need to subordinate personal
desires for the betterment of this group. This subtext was extremely
well received and absorbed in Europe along with various conformant
organization and taxation changes. It persists to this day.

Well I hear that the mealy-mouthed Luxemburgers voted "yes" but of course
the French and Dutch both said "NO" - the Brit govt. already knows the
answer but doesn't want to hear it.

What the politicians haven't digested yet is that the "NO" was a response
to a bunch of elite, back-scratching, self-regarding thieves in Brussels
stealing their earnings and then telling them how to live their lives... in
excruciating detail. I don't think the European identity, nor conformance
to such, is as ingrained as you seem to think and it is certainly not
uniquely German inspired - the politicos and their cohorts better get the
"message" fast or there's going to be a heap of trouble... and not just
from Muslims.

 

[Conor]

I don't have any numbers on this but I'd figure 80-90% of Americans live in
an area of population density roughly the same as most Europeans. The fact
that there are vast swaths of land in the U.S. which are unused/unusable
doesn't really matter - major conurbations, where most jobs are
concentrated, seem to reach about the same saturation point.

Err, not by any means.

It took them ~20years to catch up with us on exhaust emission WRT *real*
pollutants, like HCs, CO, NOx - the difference was striking until ~10years
ago. In the meantime, apart from the U.S.'s SUV abberation -- which they
also have to a lesser extent -- American cars have become much smaller and
efficient - more on a par with Euro-cars.

Wasn't the best seller in the US a Honda Accord either last year or the
one before that?

I really don't see a lot of
difference in their use of energy or attitude to energy efficiency,
compared with the U.S.

In the case of the Government of the respective countries, there is.
The EU ones recognise the problem and are trying to tackle it. G.W.Bush
says the scientists are wrong and he's not prepared to do anything
which will cost US businesses money.