Yes, your color printer is spying on you

[Arthur Entlich]

Or anything else you want traced back to you, or at least your printer.

"The Printer Did It"!

Art

 

[Jeffrey F. Bloss]

All printers have charisteristic quirks which can be used in court
cases. Its similar to the days when metal fonts on each typewriter
was slightly different in shape and angle.

That's true, but these markings are more than something that can verify a
copy coming from a given printer, they're indications of which printer they
came from *regardless* of any prior knowledge. IOW, in the first scenario
someone would have to have both the printer and the page to make the
connection. In the latter scenario, the page reveals the machine all by
itself.

A *huge* difference.

Xerox's identifiers justs makes it easier.

They make possible what was not possible before. Specifically, taking any
printed page and discerning it's origin with no other evidence at all.
Before this "tag" implementation an abusive government or employer would
typically have to sift through hundreds or thousands of potential
dissidents to build a list of potential targets. And that list would be
imperfect because the document might have been printed at any time. Now,
the document itself pinpoints at least the machine it was printed on, and
the exact time. And most likely a very tiny list of targets as a result.

In essence, any of this sort of identification is forcing someone to sign
every document they print. It's a direct and indisputable assault against
privacy and anonymity, under the guise of "security". A punishment of the
whole for the actions of the minority. Akin to fitting each and every
citizen with an ankle bracelet because a few have proved themselves
deserving of electronic monitoring.

--
Hand crafted on October 20, 2005 at 11:42:13 -0400

Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

 

[paul_zest]

Millions? Ok, one million would be 50.000 twenty dollar bills, and
if 'millions' means at leat two, then it would mean printing at least
100.000 twenty dollar bills. That would cost a fortune in yellow
ink!

Geo

Let the yellow run out then

1) save a fortune in yellow ink refills
2) no more yellow spy dots



Thanks to a previous poster for pointing out their
security work around )



How long are 100,000 bills going to take me to print?
I might have to get a few of these printers!

4Q

 

[measekite]

Steve wrote:




Or for whistleblowing on any employer who might have a blue light.

"Steve, can you explain why the letter with the details of how my secretary
and I used pension fund money to vacation in Aruba without my wife have the
same dot patterns as every spreadsheet you've printed in the last 2 years?"

DAT CAUSE FRANKIE CRANKIE WAS KEEPING UR WIFE BUZY

 

[measekite]

GET YOUR PRINTER A LAWYER

How will that help when the serial number is on each page printed? Yeah, it
might slow down the authorities tracking you, but when they find you, they'd
still have proof that YOUR printer was involved. -Dave

 

[Shawn Hirn]

How will that help when the serial number is on each page printed? Yeah, it
might slow down the authorities tracking you, but when they find you, they'd
still have proof that YOUR printer was involved. -Dave

If you don't register your printer with the manufacturer, how is the
government going to identify that serial number back to you? At most,
they can associate that serial number with a physical printer, but if no
one knows where the printer with that serial number is located, your
privacy is preserved.

 

[Steve]

That's true, but these markings are more than something that can verify a
copy coming from a given printer, they're indications of which printer they
came from *regardless* of any prior knowledge. IOW, in the first scenario
someone would have to have both the printer and the page to make the
connection. In the latter scenario, the page reveals the machine all by
itself.
A *huge* difference.

Yup. And it's pretty astounding that this government-industry
agreement apparently existed for a decade or more without ever
becoming public knowledge.



***********************************************************************

Always read stuff that will make you look good if you die in the middle of it.

....P.J. O'Rourke

 

[Rod Speed]

Still not spying on you.

The serial number and the date.

Art

 

[Jeffrey F. Bloss]

If you don't register your printer with the manufacturer, how is the
government going to identify that serial number back to you?

You might get away with not being identified by not sending in the reg card,
but if you believe a printer's serial number can't be at the very least
tracked to a specific retail location and general date/time of sale you're
mistaken. If "they" want you bad enough it may be as easy as reviewing
store security tapes, or interviewing employees.

And that's just for bottom end printer buyers. The people who can walk into
Wal*Mart or Office Max and leave with a cash sale "SOHO" or "Entry Level"
printer. There's a whole world of mid range to upper end equipment you
can't even touch without dealing with a company rep, and *usually* signing
a service contract.

At most,
they can associate that serial number with a physical printer, but if no
one knows where the printer with that serial number is located, your
privacy is preserved.

Your privacy is flatly breached every time you print a document because
you're being forced to essentially put a digital signature on it. And
without people who watch out for such things, you wouldn't even know about
it. It's surreptitious "RFID" for hard copy documents. Nothing more,
nothing less.

If you're OK with that, I'd like you to use this new operating system i
wrote, or this new "security" chip I want to install in your machine. Don't
worry about those little digital "tags" tacked to every packet of
information that leaves your computer, they're harmless... ;-)

--
Hand crafted on October 20, 2005 at 14:15:56 -0400

Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

 

[Rod Speed]

That's true, but these markings are more than something that can
verify a copy coming from a given printer, they're indications of
which printer they came from *regardless* of any prior knowledge.
IOW, in the first scenario someone would have to have both the
printer and the page to make the connection. In the latter scenario,
the page reveals the machine all by itself.

A *huge* difference.


They make possible what was not possible before. Specifically, taking
any printed page and discerning it's origin with no other evidence at
all. Before this "tag" implementation an abusive government or
employer would typically have to sift through hundreds or thousands
of potential dissidents to build a list of potential targets. And
that list would be imperfect because the document might have been
printed at any time. Now, the document itself pinpoints at least the
machine it was printed on, and the exact time. And most likely a very
tiny list of targets as a result.

In essence, any of this sort of identification is
forcing someone to sign every document they print.

Nope, not when a particular printer cant
be associated with a particular individual.

ALL the authoritys know is that all the documents came
from one particular printer and the date it was printed etc.

It's a direct and indisputable assault against
privacy and anonymity, under the guise of "security".

Just like countless other situations are, like ID for bank
accounts, cameras in ATMs, ID for license plates, etc etc etc.

A punishment of the whole for the actions of the minority.

Bullshit. No 'punishment' at all for those who dont breach the law.

Akin to fitting each and every citizen with an ankle bracelet because
a few have proved themselves deserving of electronic monitoring.

Nothing like. Not even as intrusive as social security numbers.

 

[Jeffrey F. Bloss]

All printers have charisteristic quirks which can be used in court

[...]
That's true, but these markings are more than something that can verify a
copy coming from a given printer, they're indications of which printer
they came from *regardless* of any prior knowledge. IOW, in the first
scenario someone would have to have both the printer and the page to make
the connection. In the latter scenario, the page reveals the machine all
by itself.
A *huge* difference.

Yup. And it's pretty astounding that this government-industry
agreement apparently existed for a decade or more without ever
becoming public knowledge.

Makes my stomach turn to think I use to work for Xerox, even if it was just
for a short time. I quit because I couldn't stand lying to customers about
the "bottom line" price and "bullet proof" security. If I'd known about
this crap, you can bet I'd have done a bit more than just walk.

OTOH, Xerox is the yardstick used to measure the rest. Can't deny they're
eons beyond the competition in print quality and features. The upper end
stuff that is.... their $300 B&W printer/FAX/copier blows chunks IMO.

--
Hand crafted on October 20, 2005 at 14:40:44 -0400

Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

 

[Jeffrey F. Bloss]

Still not spying on you.

So then you'll have no trouble at all using this new operating system I'm
writing, or the new computers I'm building? The ones that put a little
digital serial number and time stamp in every packet that leaves your
machine, and every block of data that's written to any media? It's just a
record of on what machine and at what time that information was created.
They're just tools to thwart counterfitters and terrorists after all. I
won't do anything funny with the information I collect... scouts honor.
Cross my heart and everything. Really. No take backs or nothing.

Oh and by the way, I'm going to make you use these things without your
permission anyway, so your answer is irrelevant. You may now return to the
rest of the flock. We've checked for rectal prolapse, it's not time for
your shearing. Have a nice day.

--
Hand crafted on October 20, 2005 at 15:13:26 -0400

Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

 

[Shaun Eli]

I suggest that before people say it doesn't matter unless you break the
law, you go find a history book and read about The Federalist Papers,
which were instrumental in our country's foundation.

They were written anonymously by (we now know) Hamilton, Madison and
Jay.

Had they had a printer which they knew could reveal their identities,
they might not have written.

The First Amendment doesn't say anything about yellow toner.

Shaun Eli
www.BrainChampagne.com
Brain Champagne: Clever Comedy for the Smart Mind (sm)

 

[Jeffrey F. Bloss]

Nope, not when a particular printer cant
be associated with a particular individual.

Yeah, well... that's just been proved a whole lot easier in *all* cases, and
unavioadable in many or most.

ALL the authoritys know is that all the documents came
from one particular printer and the date it was printed etc.

If you discount everyone except off the shelf buyers who pay cash and buy
considerable distances from their homes, you have a point. If you include
the vast majority of personal and business consumers, you're simply looking
at the problem with very narrow vision.

Just like countless other situations are, like ID for bank
accounts, cameras in ATMs, ID for license plates, etc etc etc.

Red herring. Personal identification is an absolute necessity in those
scenarios. It's not necessary to the printing of a document.

Bullshit. No 'punishment' at all for those who dont breach the law.

I'll be over tomorrow to install the software that tracks your every move on
the net. It's OK with you, right? You have nothing to hide after all...

Nothing like. Not even as intrusive as social security numbers.

You're right. Social Security numbers are one of the most abused forms of
"identification" in use today. Thanks for pointing that out.

--
Hand crafted on October 20, 2005 at 15:40:39 -0400

Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

 

[Jeffrey F. Bloss]

I suggest that before people say it doesn't matter unless you break the
law, you go find a history book and read about The Federalist Papers,
which were instrumental in our country's foundation.

They were written anonymously by (we now know) Hamilton, Madison and
Jay.

Had they had a printer which they knew could reveal their identities,
they might not have written.

If they were published under the Orwellian rule of a government that had the
ability to collate every document to its author, we might not have retained
the right to even discuss this at *all*.

--
Hand crafted on October 20, 2005 at 15:50:10 -0400

Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

 

[ClubCX]

It's not just the government. These yellow 'signatures' have been
decoded by other groups now, and that information will soon become
public knowledge. Everybody will be able to determine the source of a
document and take whatever retribution against the author they like.

 

[mike wilcox]

If you don't register your printer with the manufacturer, how is the
government going to identify that serial number back to you? At most,
they can associate that serial number with a physical printer, but if no
one knows where the printer with that serial number is located, your
privacy is preserved.

Simple solution, go down to any Sally Anne, St Vincent d'Paul type
thrift shop and buy a used printer for $5.00- $15.00 and be a subversive
as you like, then ditch the printer ;~)

 

[Davy]

If it's an Epson C62 I wouldn't worry, it's gonna clog anyway

Dav

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

So then you'll have no trouble at all using this new operating
system I'm writing, or the new computers I'm building?

Never ever said anything like that. I JUST said that
that particular printer clearly isnt SPYING on anyone.

The ones that put a little digital serial number and time
stamp in every packet that leaves your machine, and
every block of data that's written to any media?

Different issue entirely.

It's just a record of on what machine and at what time
that information was created. They're just tools to thwart
counterfitters and terrorists after all. I won't do anything
funny with the information I collect... scouts honor. Cross
my heart and everything. Really. No take backs or nothing.

Pathetic, really.

Oh and by the way, I'm going to make you use these things
without your permission anyway, so your answer is irrelevant.

No you cant.

You may now return to the rest of the flock. We've checked for
rectal prolapse, it's not time for your shearing. Have a nice day.

Wota terminal ****wit.

 

[Rod Speed]

Shawn Hirn wrote:

You might get away with not being identified by not sending
in the reg card, but if you believe a printer's serial number
can't be at the very least tracked to a specific retail location
and general date/time of sale you're mistaken. If "they" want
you bad enough it may be as easy as reviewing store
security tapes, or interviewing employees.

Plenty of obvious ways around that.

And I couldnt give a flying red **** about them being able to
work out which printer a particular page was printed on anyway,
I almost never print anything that leaves my place, and I couldnt
care less if what I print is identified to my printer anyway.

And that's just for bottom end printer buyers. The people who
can walk into Wal*Mart or Office Max and leave with a cash
sale "SOHO" or "Entry Level" printer. There's a whole world of
mid range to upper end equipment you can't even touch without
dealing with a company rep, and *usually* signing a service contract.

Who cares ? I dont need one of those printers.

And the serial number and date stamp isnt much use
with documents printed in operations like that to identify
the individual who printed that document anyway.

Your privacy is flatly breached every time you print a document because
you're being forced to essentially put a digital signature on it.

Lie. It isnt a digital signature, its just the serial
number of the printer and the datestamp.

And without people who watch out for such things,
you wouldn't even know about it. It's surreptitious "RFID"
for hard copy documents. Nothing more, nothing less.

Another lie. Its nothing like a real RFID.

If you're OK with that, I'd like you to use this new operating system
i wrote, or this new "security" chip I want to install in your machine.
Don't worry about those little digital "tags" tacked to every packet
of information that leaves your computer, they're harmless... ;-)

Clowns like you wont be putting anything into anything of mine.