Window is stealing my HD size

[Gerhard Fiedler]

For a different reason, they see the size reported in GiBs in Win
whereas the manufacturer states the size in decimal GBs.

Almost... actually, the problem is that the /number/ is the size in GiB but
the /unit/ given is "GB". If they gave the unit as "GiB", people would for
a short time ask "what's a GiB?", and soon the issue would be settled. As
long as they continue to insist in using an ambiguous unit, there will be
confusion.

Irrelevant to the capacity of the physical drive as reported in Win.

Right... the data space in a partition depends on the file system used to
format that partition, but the size of a disk can't really depend on the
file system -- it doesn't have one (only individual partitions have one,
and every partition may use a different one).

Gerhard

 

[J. Clarke]

Nope. In spades with the miniscribe MS1006
http://marina.mfarris.com/theref/hard_drives/h_mini_ms1006.html
and the Micropolis 1302
http://marina.mfarris.com/theref/hard_drives/h_m1302.html

Not gonna waste my time running the numbers on those.

For a different reason, they see the size reported in GiBs in
Win whereas the manufacturer states the size in decimal GBs.



Irrelevant to the capacity of the physical drive as reported in Win.

What is "Win" and why would one use it for reporting drive capacity? Sorry,
I'm being cruel. Even in Windows you have at least three different
filesystems available that will format a given drive to different
capacities.

<snip>

 

[J. Clarke]

If you start to misuse them in business transactions, you will
find out about that. If it looks like an SI prefix, then it has
to be one.

You keep asserting this. Repeating it over and over again is not going to
make it so. You're saying that a pet store owner who sells someone 2k of
cats or a package store owner who sells someone 1k of beer for a party is
going to get in trouble for selling 2 kittens and not 2 kilocats or 1 keg
and not one kilobeer? I _really_ want to read the statute that proclaims
that to be the case.

 

[J. Clarke]

You wouldnt state it as 5.0MB if that was
the case, it would be stated as 5MB instead.

Well, it's not 5.0 MB nor is it 5.0 MiB so it's wrong in either case.

Yeah, I mangled that one considerably.



I didnt make it up, I just mangled it.

Like you're mangling a lot of other things.

 

[dew]

That was not really the issue.

It was however Arno's claim that was being
discussed in that particular subthread.

The issue was that /if/ one uses an SI unit or prefix
(as for example the "giga" prefix in the size spec of
harddisks), it is defined by law what it means.

That is just plain wrong too with the US law being discussed.

CUSTOMARY is also allowed under US law and you can certainly
make a case that binary K M and G prefixes are customary.

If you don't believe it, try selling a disk that has 500 GB as having
800 GB and claiming that your 'GB' means 625000000 bytes... No go,

Because that is not a customary practice.

and you'll have at least small claims court
all over you -- based on law, of course.

But you wouldnt if you chose to sell the that drive as a 466GB drive
so the buyers wouldnt whine about the size of the drive as seen in Win.

 

[dew]

If you start to misuse them in business transactions, you will
find out about that. If it looks like an SI prefix, then it has to be one.

Wrong with US law that clearly allows the use
of CUSTOMARY UNITS as an alternative to SI.

 

[dew]

dew wrote:

Nope.

actually, the problem is that the /number/ is
the size in GiB but the /unit/ given is "GB".

That's just splitting hairs. Win doesnt use the GiB style
because that would cause even more confusion given that
the GiB is so rarely seen even tho its technically correct.

If they gave the unit as "GiB", people would for a short time
ask "what's a GiB?", and soon the issue would be settled.

No it wouldnt. It would show up every time someone added a
new hard drive and it wasnt obvious to them what the GiB meant.
It would make a lot more sense for Win to use the decimal GB
instead since its univerally used by hard drive manufacturers now.

As long as they continue to insist in using
an ambiguous unit, there will be confusion.

There will confusion while ever the GiB format is used in Win too.

They only way to eliminate most of the confusion would
be to use decimal GBs in Win and even then you would
still have some whining about why the free space doesnt
match what the manufacturer said the drive space was.

Right... the data space in a partition depends on the file system
used to format that partition, but the size of a disk can't really
depend on the file system -- it doesn't have one (only individual
partitions have one, and every partition may use a different one).

And the confusion mostly arises from the fact that Win shows
the physical drive size in GiBs in Disk Management etc.

 

[dew]

Well, it's not 5.0 MB nor is it 5.0 MiB so it's wrong in either case.

Irrelevant to your claim about the closest whole number.

Like you're mangling a lot of other things.

Easy to claim.

 

[dew]

Not gonna waste my time running the numbers on those.

Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.

What is "Win" and why would one use it for reporting drive capacity?
Sorry, I'm being cruel.

Just pathetic, actually.

Even in Windows you have at least three different filesystems
available that will format a given drive to different capacities.

Irrelevant to how it states the size of a physical drive in Disk Management.

 

[J. Clarke]

It was however Arno's claim that was being
discussed in that particular subthread.


That is just plain wrong too with the US law being discussed.

CUSTOMARY is also allowed under US law and you can certainly
make a case that binary K M and G prefixes are customary.


Because that is not a customary practice.


But you wouldnt if you chose to sell the that drive as a 466GB drive
so the buyers wouldnt whine about the size of the drive as seen in Win.

You might want to be aware that "customary" with regard to measurements
refers to the "US Customary System" which means feet, pounds, etc, and not
to "whatever is popular".

 

[J. Clarke]

Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.



Just pathetic, actually.


Irrelevant to how it states the size of a physical drive in Disk
Management.

Which has zip all to do with the formatted capacity.

 

[Arno Wagner]

dew wrote:

That was not really the issue. The issue was that /if/ one uses an SI unit
or prefix (as for example the "giga" prefix in the size spec of harddisks),
it is defined by law what it means.

Thank you, that is exactly what the discussion was about.

Arno

 

[Arno Wagner]

dew wrote:

You might want to be aware that "customary" with regard to measurements
refers to the "US Customary System" which means feet, pounds, etc, and not
to "whatever is popular".

And in addition there is a NIST standard that defines what is customary
and what these customary units mean exactly.

Arno

 

[Arno Wagner]

Arno Wagner wrote:

You keep asserting this. Repeating it over and over again is not going to
make it so. You're saying that a pet store owner who sells someone 2k of
cats or a package store owner who sells someone 1k of beer for a party is
going to get in trouble for selling 2 kittens and not 2 kilocats or 1 keg
and not one kilobeer? I _really_ want to read the statute that proclaims
that to be the case.

Your above measurements would get into trouble for the beer, since
it does not contain a unit. Unless 'k' is really customary (according
to NIST) as abreviation for "keg"? I would not know.

The kittens example is not even correct language. "2k of cats"?
What is that supposed to mean? Here you might get into the
laws on incorrect labeling instead.

Arno

 

[Arno Wagner]

Wrong with US law that clearly allows the use
of CUSTOMARY UNITS as an alternative to SI.

You did not see what was defined as "Customary". Thet would be
what NIST thinks is customary and you can bet that the relevent
NIST publication gives very precise definitions.

Arno

 

[J. Clarke]

And in addition there is a NIST standard that defines what is customary
and what these customary units mean exactly.

But NIST standards are not laws.

 

[dew]

You might want to be aware that "customary" with regard to measurements
refers to the "US Customary System" which means feet, pounds, etc,

Its more complicated than that with prefixes.

and not to "whatever is popular".

Its got nothing to do with popularity. That example you
used of ksi is also legally acceptible under US law.

 

[dew]

And in addition there is a NIST standard that defines what is
customary and what these customary units mean exactly.

Pity that does NOT have the status of US LAW and
doesnt cover the PREFIXES being discussed anyway.

The use of binary K, M and G is clearly CUSTOMARY with computers.

 

[dew]

Thank you, that is exactly what the discussion was about.

Pity its just plain wrong with CUSTOMARY units
which are very explicitly allowed under US law.

 

[dew]

Which has zip all to do with the formatted capacity.

Pity we werent discussing formatted capacity, the OP was
complaining about the fact that the size of the physical drive
in Disk Management etc was stated in terms of binary GBs,
GiBs and that didnt match what the manufacturer said that
the size of the physical drive was.