Use non-Epson cartridges and die!

[Davy]

Arthur Entlichwrote

No, it says that Epson UK has/had some poore
employees. It something

nearly impossible to screen out of a large organization

Then it's certainly not a good company to deal with.. and how was I t
know that about Epson at the time..

Epson suppose to be a renowned company why have they allowe
themselves to fall to this standard, they have only their selves t
blame, it is clear that they have failed the basic standard if the
allow non-technical or semi-skilled people loose on thei
products

It's not Good for Epson, not good for the customer and not good fo
business and can rightly be called a poor company or a crap company
it certainly can't be called a good company

As you probably know Art, a fireman as to attain a certain grade, a T
engineer as to achieve a recognised status & a airline pilot as t
do the same - so we all exclude Epson engineers from getting suitabl
qualified before letting loose on their products - might as well cal
the Simpsons for advice...

Just what are they doing at Seiko Epson apart from sitting on thei
butts and letting this happen - that is, if this is the case....

Dav

 

[measekite]

OK, I think we get it. There is 2 or 3 people in this newsgroup that do not
like Epson printers. Quite frankly, it's getting a little tired.

IF YOU ARE TIRED THEN GO GET SOME SLEEP

Most people
come into these groups to ask for help. Not be berated for owning an Epson
printer. I would like to say thanks to Arthur Entlich for his help to anyone
who asks. And for not stooping to the levels of these other people. Always
professional and not the type to get into childish shouting match threads
with name calling and foul language.

Arthur Entlichwrote:

quote="Arthur Entlich"]What it shows is that in any technical field
there are people who are

better and more poorly informed or that some didn't pay enough

attention


in the training sessions.

What does that exactly say about Epson, if they ain't concerned as to
what standards there own employers attain - that say's a lot for
their organisation.

In plain speaking.... 'crap'.....!

Davy

 

[measekite]

No, it says that Epson UK has/had some poorer employees. It something
nearly impossible to screen out of a large organization.

Art

YEAH - LIKE MANY OF THE IDIOTS HERE

Arthur Entlichwrote:

quote="Arthur Entlich"]What it shows is that in any technical field
there are people who are

better and more poorly informed or that some didn't pay enough

attention

in the training sessions.

What does that exactly say about Epson, if they ain't concerned as to
what standards there own employers attain - that say's a lot for
their organisation.

In plain speaking.... 'crap'.....!

Davy

 

[Marky]

Markywrote:

but the majority of people

on the internet now have only had a personal computer for a very short
period of time and most of those systems came with a new printer.


And thjere are people who build their own computer, Epson printers

are not supplied with 'ALL' 'ready to go computers.

These are the people that usually scream the loudest and do the least about
their situation and would rather blame the matter on corporate greed than to
spend an hour searching the internet for information.

Printers under warrenty should be delt with by the manufacturer not
Tom, Dick or Harry.

that way and people are, generally, lazy over here and expect that their $40
printer should come with a lifetime guarantee...

A 12 month warrenty should mean a 12 month warrenty whether the
printer is sold for $5 or $500

That is what the warranty is...one year...regardless of the MSRP...

This is a failure on the manufacturer and not the user, it is not the
customer who should argue the rights and wrongs of their so called
technical experts.

Not all the printers fail, if that is what you are implying...

If an Epson Tech say's do not do more than 6 cleans or head damage
will result I would assume that would be correct.

Same difference...actually. Why are you belabouring this issue? If the rep
said it will damage the head and you stop doing the cleanings (and save your
ink) it has the same effect...they replace the printer under warranty and
you have a working printer.

Who are you, me or Art to argue, the Tech is employed by Epson can't
you understand.

I certainly do understand...you spoke with someone who gave you incorrect
information and I was merely pointing this out...do you understand how large
their workforce is and how often reps come and go? Do you understand what it
takes to turn a normal person into a picture-perfect tech support person? Do
you know how many mistakes I made over the years and how those mistakes were
corrected?

Do you understand the cost involved in running a technical support call
center and that it is a continuously changing process?

Do you realize that there are, literally, hundreds of thousands of people
that call and e-mail these people in one year and to screen that type of
mistake can take weeks?

You had a bad experience...millions have had good to excellent experiences
with these call centers...they happen to have streamlined things and
provided information on their website to reduce the number of calls/contacts
so that their workforce is being used in the most efficient and cost
effective way...

If the printers are forever clogging and Epson say's you want a new
head, hands you another printer and that goes exactly the same way in
the same period of time.

Customers will get a replacement for up to one year...maybe longer if you
have repeated failures...

whether refurbished or not it was supplied by Epson who should ensure
that printer is going to be reliable.

And most times they do...if it fails again in the warranty they usually
replace it free of charge...if it is outside of the warranty in North
America they can either do a warranty exception and replace the unit or
refer you to a service center and often cover the parts and labour if it is
not too far out of warranty...

You have said people expect a lifetime warrenty on other ocassions, I
would have expected someone like you to understand that 12 months
warrenty means that faulty products will be fix or replaced in that
period

And they do...I had to set up hundreds, maybe thousands of products for
exchanges during the time I was there...and didn't see too many cases where
there were repeat failures...it is all documented on their system...

I expect the product to be either fixed or exchanged , you seem to
assuming that I expect a lifetime warrenty and I exclude the nozzle
cleans here.

I didn't say you, but if you expected out of warranty replacements then they
can do that if you're civil with them...if you blow up and demand something
there is a good chance they will tell you they can't help you...they are,
after all, people who live and work and also buy products that sometimes
fail...many of them know exactly what to expect from the manufacturer...and
most people do not bother after the warranty is expired unless they've had
repeated issues with the product or they are in a tight spot and/or want to
get a freebee from someone...

It would be interesting to cross reference databases with companies like HP,
Canon and others to see if they are getting the same customers recycled...or
exchanged if you prefer...

I said this before, but you'd be surprised how many printers came in for
warranty work that had nothing wrong with them...except the customer didn't
want to replace the ink and knew that Epson would send them another printer
with new ink cartridges...free!

The honest, hard working people are the ones who end up paying for that...

Now, if or when you need to contact Canon support I'd be really interested
to see what your experience is with them...I've heard some manufacturers
offer 90 days of free phone support and then you have to pay per incident...

Cheers!

 

[Davy]

[quote="Mark

I certainly do understand...you spoke with someone who gave yo incorrec
information and I was merely pointing this out...do you understan how larg
their workforce is and how often reps come and go? Do you understan what i
takes to turn a normal person into a picture-perfect tech suppor

person? D

Then that guy should not be working for that company, for simply h
does not come up to a required standard

You indicate the person should have very little limited knowledge
what should he be capable of exactly..

you know how many mistakes I made over the years and how thos mistakes wer
corrected

Here we go again... I am not interested in what you eat for lunch

Do you understand the cost involved in running a technical suppor cal
center and that it is a continuously changing process

Nothing to do with me

Do you realize that there are, literally, hundreds of thousands o peopl
that call and e-mail these people in one year and to screen tha type o
mistake can take weeks

Not relevant - their products failed they should repair it AND th
length of time it takes IS irrelevant...

You had a bad experience...millions have had good to excellen experience
with these call centers...they happen to have streamlined thing an
provided information on their website to reduce the number o

calls/contact

Try getting around instead of keeping glued to this NG..

so that their workforce is being used in the most efficient an cos
effective way..

Are you serious ...l.o.

Now, if or when you need to contact Canon support I'd be reall intereste
to see what your experience is with them...I've heard som manufacturer
offer 90 days of free phone support and then you have to pay pe

incident..

[/quote

I have had no need to contact Canon, it ain't clogged yet...no
needed one manual clean, compare that to a printer that clogged o
the 2nd and 4th day

If you care to take time and read user's reviews about 'various' Epso
printers you will see that they are problematic, why are so man
people asking for help, I say again, all printers clog Epson ar
the worse offenders

Dav

 

[Marky]

[quote="Marky
I certainly do understand...you spoke with someone who gave you incorrect
information and I was merely pointing this out...do you understand how large
their workforce is and how often reps come and go? Do you understand what it
takes to turn a normal person into a picture-perfect tech support

person? Do


Then that guy should not be working for that company, for simply he
does not come up to a required standard.

You indicate the person should have very little limited knowledge -
what should he be capable of exactly..?

you know how many mistakes I made over the years and how those mistakes were
corrected?

Here we go again... I am not interested in what you eat for lunch.

Do you understand the cost involved in running a technical support call
center and that it is a continuously changing process?

Nothing to do with me.

Actually, it has everything to do with your experience...you got caught in a
worm-hole that shouldn't have been opened...

Not relevant - their products failed they should repair it AND the
length of time it takes IS irrelevant...!
calls/contacts

Try getting around instead of keeping glued to this NG..!
Ditto!


Are you serious ...l.o.l

No, actually I'm Aquarius...what sign are you?

Now, if or when you need to contact Canon support I'd be really interested
to see what your experience is with them...I've heard some manufacturers
offer 90 days of free phone support and then you have to pay per

incident...

I have had no need to contact Canon, it ain't clogged yet...nor
needed one manual clean, compare that to a printer that clogged on
the 2nd and 4th day.

If you care to take time and read user's reviews about 'various' Epson
printers you will see that they are problematic, why are so many
people asking for help, I say again, all printers clog Epson are
the worse offenders.

Davy[/QUOTE]

I'd say that you are convinced of that based on your two printers...not a
very wide population to do any real statistical analysis of the
situation...but significant nonetheless...to you...

 

[Davy]

uote="Marky

Actually, it has everything to do with your experience...you got caught in a
worm-hole that shouldn't have been opened...

Quite right - I shouldn't have bought Epson

so that their workforce is being used in the most efficient and
cost
effective way...
Really...!


No, actually I'm Aquarius...what sign are you?

Are you on planet Earth...? Into astrology now are we..?

I'd say that you are convinced of that based on your two printers...not a
very wide population to do any real statistical analysis of the
situation...but significant nonetheless...to you..

Yes indeed you are right I based the experience on two printers, along
with other Epson user comments and along with other peoples opinions
and the so-called Epson Technicians that according to you have a very
limited amount of intelligence and who can't tell the truth.

That tells me they don't know what the hell they'er talking about, it
is obvious it tells you otherwise as you can not see the point.

With Epson you get clog after clog after clog and a load of bull
according to you from their so-called technicians

That is why I say Epson is poor or plainly speaking - crap...!

Davy

 

[Marky]

Quite right - I shouldn't have bought Epson

Well, since you have already said that a few times...

Truly!~



Are you on planet Earth...? Into astrology now are we..?

Earth...and, yes, as a matter of fact I am...does that make you somehow
superior to me? BTW, it was a an injectioin of levity...you are way too
serious about slamming Epson or trying to make me sound silly...

I read your previous posts when this was first discussed but stopped
responding to you because you resorted to name calling and other childish
tactics...let's not go there, OK...I've been posting on newsgroups for a
long time and I know where these things go...but I'm not afraid to go
there...IYKWIM...give that angle a rest will ya?

Yes indeed you are right I based the experience on two printers, along
with other Epson user comments and along with other peoples opinions
and the so-called Epson Technicians that according to you have a very
limited amount of intelligence and who can't tell the truth.

I can see that having any kind of discussion with you is difficult because
you are fixated with this tech telling you it will wear out the head...as I
tried to explain, this is wrong and I doubt that it went much farther than
you and maybe a few others...this was Epson UK so I don't really know for
sure...but I do know for a fact that NA techs do not follow that line...they
tell you plain and simple that it wastes ink...

That tells me they don't know what the hell they'er talking about, it
is obvious it tells you otherwise as you can not see the point.

I can see the point, but it was one rep of probably two hundred...if they
are still saying this then maybe Epson UK doesn't care...but I've seen reps
pulled off the phones in my call center and given very stern but guiding
advice to not say things like that...

With Epson you get clog after clog after clog and a load of bull
according to you from their so-called technicians

And where is the happy Epson customer newsgroup to tell you that you are
wrong...I own several of them and not a single one has ever clogged...

That is why I say Epson is poor or plainly speaking - crap...!

OK...whatever...

 

[Davy]

quote="Marky

Well, since you have already said that a few times...

No doubt you will continue to buy Epson, even if each and every one
went faulty

so that their workforce is being used in the most efficient and
cost
effective way...

Truly!~

Then they ought to get proper engineers instead of wannabes

Earth...and, yes, as a matter of fact I am...does that make you somehow
superior to me?

I am not superior to anyone but you do seem to down rate Epson
Engineers yourself in the comments you made.

BTW, it was a an injectioin of levity...you are way too
serious about slamming Epson or trying to make me sound silly...

Review your comments, it's you who also said that Epson Techincal
wasn't up to scratch - so where does that leave you.. - better than
them perhaps..?

I read your previous posts when this was first discussed but stopped
responding to you because you resorted to name calling and other childish
tactics...let's not go there, OK...I've been posting on newsgroups for a
long time and I know where these things go...but I'm not afraid to go
there...IYKWIM...give that angle a rest will ya?

Name calling, have I called you..? I have called Epson, you are
making it out I am calling everyone on this NG.. It's childish to
denounce and argue against the advice of an engineer, especially the
advice given in a letter on Epson headed notepaper...

It's plainly obvious either you are wrong or Epson are wrong.

I can see that having any kind of discussion with you is difficult because
you are fixated with this tech telling you it will wear out the head...as I
tried to explain,

Saying you know better than a Epson technical engineer are you?

If they send you letters that you disagree with, you still say they
are wrong, does Epson ever tell the truth in your view that is...

I can see the point, but it was one rep of probably two hundred...if they
are still saying this then maybe Epson UK doesn't care...but I've seen reps
pulled off the phones in my call center and given very stern but guiding
advice to not say things like that...

May be it is just Epson UK - Epson in general has allowed it to
happen.quote]

I own several of them and not a single one has ever clogged...

Let's hope they stay that way.

Davy

 

[Marky]

No doubt you will continue to buy Epson, even if each and every one
went faulty

No doubt at all...they are and have been excellent printers in my experience
with them...

Then they ought to get proper engineers instead of wannabes


I am not superior to anyone but you do seem to down rate Epson
Engineers yourself in the comments you made.

I have opinions on some things, but not with the engineering of the print
heads...the non-recyclable (for the most part) ink cartridges and the
competition for entry level products that end up in landfill sites
eventually...I think they should just skip over the entry-level products and
go with the mid to high-end products...the C60 that I had was mid-entry
level and it is, amazingly enough, a good product...the C40UX and others
that had no buttons (Stylus Color 480 and 580) were disposable
printers...but Epson did support the warranty for one year and most of them
actually lasted longer than the warranty...some did not...

But the design is, essentially, good...

Review your comments, it's you who also said that Epson Techincal
wasn't up to scratch - so where does that leave you.. - better than
them perhaps..?

Yes, actually...the one you spoke with was obviously a newby...been there
and done that myself...but I was always interested in customer service in
the sense that we were supporting a product and giving the correct
information in a timely manner was critical...for the most part we were just
going through the motions...if the printer did not respond to the
recommended cleaning cycles and the customer had changed the ink
cartridge(s) and it would still not print then under the warranty we set up
the exchange...

These calls are not supposed to go over ten minutes...that is how they
streamline the process so that more customers can be supported without
spending too much time on any one customer...if the rep you spoke with was
under a time constraint and was not 100% confident or versed in the "Do and
do not Do" scripts then he may have sloughed it off to 'damage the print
heads'...some customers expect you stay on the line with them while they run
a couple of dozen cleanings, change out a few cartridges, and tell you their
life story...in a call center time is money...

Under time constraints the tech can become flustered and some (but not all)
will respond to this stress with comments that are not 'sanctioned'....

Name calling, have I called you..? I have called Epson, you are
making it out I am calling everyone on this NG.. It's childish to
denounce and argue against the advice of an engineer, especially the
advice given in a letter on Epson headed notepaper...

Are you sure it was an engineer?

It's plainly obvious either you are wrong or Epson are wrong.


Saying you know better than a Epson technical engineer are you?

Are you sure it was an engineer? Being in the support group I had access to
Advanced Product Support reps who had more advanced understanding of the
fine points of the products, but they were not engineers...these are the
people who usually send out letters to customers or the senior techs (like
myself) would pass information along to customers as handed down from this
group...but none of them or us were engineers...they spoke with engineers
directly when needed...but engineers (in NA) do not contact
customers...neither do the software developers, senior executives or R&D
groups...

They are far too busy to deal with individual requests for written
statements about product operation...that's what the manual is for...and
that's all an end-user is actually entitled to know...design, service, and
other proprietary information is not (generally) available to
end-users...but techs and APS can certainly generate letters to satisfy a
customer's curiosity...

Do you still have the letter? It would be interesting to see this
document...

If they send you letters that you disagree with, you still say they
are wrong, does Epson ever tell the truth in your view that is...

I can see the point, but it was one rep of probably two hundred...if they
are still saying this then maybe Epson UK doesn't care...but I've seen reps
pulled off the phones in my call center and given very stern but guiding
advice to not say things like that...

May be it is just Epson UK - Epson in general has allowed it to
happen.quote]

I own several of them and not a single one has ever clogged...

Let's hope they stay that way.

Yes...that's all we can do...

 

[Davy]

quote="Marky"

Do you still have the letter? It would be interesting to see thi
document..

Yes I have the 'original' letter somewhere, I did scan it and have i
on file which is available

I sent Arthur a copy of it quite a while back, so feel free to tak
the matter up with him if you wish, that is saying I do not mind i
being discussed and would be happy to supply you with a copy

I am not dragging Art into this but I did send him some samples of th
problem, to be honest what they were like I can't remember and wil
stand by whatever he describes 'if' he should do so

Kindly note
The 6 cleans saga I can not prove, I have said this several times
this was in the very early days and was given via telephone, th
letter was the result of writing to them and afraid I did not kee
that letter to them, but was some time after

Politeness was ensured both way's and no argument resulted at an
time

Epson UK doesn't care...but I'v
seen rep
pulled off the phones in my call center and given very stern bu
guidin
advice to not say things like that..

Customer service personnel usually goes, I understand, on trainin
seminas for this very problem

For all I know I could have been talking to Tom, Dick or Harry th
office cleaner - When they say "Oh, I'll put you through t
Technical department", I can not say "Oh, no your not" you just hav
to take their word, like if Epson said this or Epson said that wh
is 'anyone to argue..

From what I gathered I whould have been better E-mailing th
Simpsons..we are refering to Epson UK, Epson on a whole is surel
responsible for their policies, from memory I tried to enquire abov
and beyond Epson UK

Again I will say, it is the reliability I am on about not the prin
quality that is not the issue here but the reliability that lead t
complete un-usability of two printers - all with OEM ink

Dav

 

[Arthur Entlich]

As I mentioned before, I don't like being cornered into being an
apologist for Epson, or any other company for that matter. But fair is
fair, and I don't believe you are being that.

I don't have the energy to list all the companies where one of more
people that represent them, OR their products, or both, disappointed me,
or I was provided with faulty merchandise or advice.

The truth is more fit in that category than the other way around.
However, I try to be fair, although I don't always succeed. I try to
recognize that a specific product, or a specific run, or sometimes a
specific individual may mess up, and that doesn't condemn a whole company.

If I took the tact you have regarding each business that has messed up
at some point, I would literally have almost nowhere to go.

Simply put, some people have a string of bad luck with a product line or
company, and it isn't always an indication of a disastrous company or
product line.

Art

Arthur Entlichwrote:

No, it says that Epson UK has/had some poorer
employees. It something

nearly impossible to screen out of a large organization.

Then it's certainly not a good company to deal with.. and how was I to
know that about Epson at the time..?

Epson suppose to be a renowned company why have they allowed
themselves to fall to this standard, they have only their selves to
blame, it is clear that they have failed the basic standard if they
allow non-technical or semi-skilled people loose on their
products.

It's not Good for Epson, not good for the customer and not good for
business and can rightly be called a poor company or a crap company,
it certainly can't be called a good company.

As you probably know Art, a fireman as to attain a certain grade, a TV
engineer as to achieve a recognised status & a airline pilot as to
do the same - so we all exclude Epson engineers from getting suitably
qualified before letting loose on their products - might as well call
the Simpsons for advice...!

Just what are they doing at Seiko Epson apart from sitting on their
butts and letting this happen - that is, if this is the case....?

Davy