Use non-Epson cartridges and die!

[Davy]

Arthur Entlichwrote:

I too will confirm (although I have told Davy
this at least six times

already, so what's the point) that doing six cleanings will not damage
the heads. Davy wants to believe this, so be it.

As you stated, cleaning the heads that many times just wastes ink and
gums up the parking cleaning pad and waste ink pads.

Art

I can not tell an Epson Technical engineer that he is completely and
utterly wrong but can only argue with him, this would have made
matters worse and extended the phone bill don't you think...!

What you are plainly saying is that he is wrong and that you are
right, so who do I believe, all I can say he works for Epson so I
consider myself right and correct in taking his word.

Why should he say so, are you really saying he was giving me a load of
bull....?

Perhaps you will comment on the letter that I showed you from Epson
"Air bubbles damages heads" is that wrong as well...?

Yep... The Canons working great, not one wasted print yet.


Davy

 

[measekite]

Much of the quoted material below is misattributed to me, so I want to
reply.

To the person, whomever it is who was speaking about the graveyard of
printer he went through and found "*all the Epson printers* had
clogged heads" well, guess what? Every Epson printer left without
cartridges, or allowed to *dry out due to lack* *of use *(which might
be expected since they were all in some printer graveyard), *will
indeed have clogged heads*, because they have permanent head which
require they have relatively fresh cartridges filled with ink
installed to prevent clogging. No rocket science here.

Secondly, whatever it is you did to try to repair the printers...
well, you obviously didn't do it correctly, because I have helped now
close to tens of thousands of people to unclog their Epson printer
heads when required, and it is usually a simple process that requires
about 15 minutes of maintenance a few times a year. Yes, a neglected
printer takes more time, but still the success rate is very high.

Could Epson print heads be better designed... very likely. Do their
printer still offer the best print quality and color accuracy ? Yes,
likely they do..

Your experience is simply not typical, and to me shows you did not
understand enough about how Epson print heads work and how they can be
cleaned, if you had such a failure rate with them.

Art

 

[measekite]

Arthur Entlichwrote:

I too will confirm (although I have told Davy
this at least six times

already, so what's the point) that doing six cleanings will not

damage


the heads. Davy wants to believe this, so be it.

As you stated, cleaning the heads that many times just wastes ink

and


gums up the parking cleaning pad and waste ink pads.

Art

I can not tell an Epson Technical engineer that he is completely and
utterly wrong but can only argue with him, this would have made
matters worse and extended the phone bill don't you think...!

What you are plainly saying is that he is wrong and that you are
right, so who do I believe, all I can say he works for Epson so I
consider myself right and correct in taking his word.

Why should he say so, are you really saying he was giving me a load of
bull....?

Perhaps you will comment on the letter that I showed you from Epson
"Air bubbles damages heads" is that wrong as well...?

Yep... The Canons working great, not one wasted print yet.

OEM INK TOO

 

[Davy]

measekite, yep I can say Epson clogs with OEM ink and I can only go o
the advice of Epson technical, be it right, left or otherwise

It is self evident Epson printers are problematic, look through an
forum, look through user reviews on any shopping channel, they ar
chief cloggers, yes other printers do clog, Canon, HP and many other
but nothing like the same number

Have Epson addressed the problem no, otherwise they would have mad
their heads replaceable, so in stead they try to stop peopl
marketing 3rd party ink's, it stands out like a sore thumb-

Cheap printer's dear ink's more clogs, "If it clogs it's an Epson"

Dav

 

[measekite]

measekite, yep I can say Epson clogs with OEM ink and I can only go on
the advice of Epson technical, be it right, left or otherwise.

It is self evident Epson printers are problematic, look through any
forum, look through user reviews on any shopping channel, they are
chief cloggers
AMEN

, yes other printers do clog, Canon, HP and many others
but nothing like the same number.

RIGHT ON. YOU NEED TO PRINT ON A MORE REGULAR BASIS WITH EPSON. AND
WHEN THEY DO CLOG THEY ARE NOTHING MORE THAN A PAPER WEIGHT

Have Epson addressed the problem no, otherwise they would have made
their heads replaceable

BUT ONE CAN ARGUE THAT THE CANON HEADS ARE NOT (ECONOMICALLY)
REPLACEABLE SINCE THE HEAD AND A SET OF CARTS COST MORE THAN A NEW PRINTER.

 

[Davy]

measekitewrote:

WHEN THEY DO CLOG THEY ARE NOTHING MORE THAN A PAPER WEIGHT

AMEN GO FOURTH AND TELL ALL

You just gotta be joking......! The best place for em' is in the
deepest part of the Pacific or clod um into Seiko Epson's yard.

Davy

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Davy, I'm just a bit surprised at you. You know very well that
technicians mis-speak regularly, especially in the area you work within.
What makes you think that inkjet printer techs are any different...
Ever have a car mechanic tell you wrong info? If not, I want to meet
your car mechanic.

The design of the head is published information. There are patent forms
which show the head design, as well as most of the service manuals.

Air bubbles won't harm the head either, although it can lead to an air
lock which may require some intervention to get unlocked.

The basic design is a crystal that works as a very small pump by
changing it's dimensions depending upon if it has current going through
it or not, and some small ink channels it is connected to which allow
for ink to be expelled out the end.

Unlike thermal heads, which use a resistor to heat the ink, and if no
ink is in the line, the components over heat and can fail, (in fact fail
eventually under any circumstance, piezo heads have the ability to
activate billions of times each, and produce very little head and it is
unlikely that that can damage the head.

Air in the chamber just causes the air to get pushed around, uneventfully.

So, yes, I am saying that the passive head cleaning process and air
bubbles don't harm Epson heads. What does damage the heads is
pressurized liquids or air forced through the head, which, if it is well
clogged can build enough pressure to delaminate it.

Art

Arthur Entlichwrote:

I too will confirm (although I have told Davy
this at least six times

already, so what's the point) that doing six cleanings will not
damage

the heads. Davy wants to believe this, so be it.

As you stated, cleaning the heads that many times just wastes ink
and

gums up the parking cleaning pad and waste ink pads.

Art

I can not tell an Epson Technical engineer that he is completely and
utterly wrong but can only argue with him, this would have made
matters worse and extended the phone bill don't you think...!

What you are plainly saying is that he is wrong and that you are
right, so who do I believe, all I can say he works for Epson so I
consider myself right and correct in taking his word.

Why should he say so, are you really saying he was giving me a load of
bull....?

Perhaps you will comment on the letter that I showed you from Epson
"Air bubbles damages heads" is that wrong as well...?

Yep... The Canons working great, not one wasted print yet.


Davy

 

[measekite]

measekitewrote:

wrote:

WHEN THEY DO CLOG THEY ARE NOTHING MORE THAN A PAPER WEIGHT

AMEN GO FOURTH AND TELL ALL

You just gotta be joking......! The best place for em' is in the
deepest part of the Pacific or clod um into Seiko Epson's yard.

Davy

ART DOES NOT LIKE YOU TO SAY THAT. SOON YOU WILL BE XCOMMUNICATED. DAT
MEANS DA KILLFILE. BUT OOH OOH FEAR NOT CAUSE DAT IS REALLY IMPOSSIBLE.
YOUR MESSAGE WILL ALWAYS GET OUT.

 

[Davy]

So Art expects me to turn around and tell Epson Technical he's a lia
- come off it Art

You have seen the letter written on Epson notepaper that air bubble
damages heads

I have said before that I can not prove that Epson Technical did sa
cleaning more than six times damages the heads, you really do expec
me to turn round and argue - that really would do a fat lot of good

A bit like saying to an airline pilot, "sorry mate but you don't kno
how to fly this aeroplane", when maybe he's been flying them a decad
or so

Perhaps they have the wrong guy working for them.. and it just goes t
show what kinfd of firm Epson really are

Dav

 

[Arthur Entlich]

What it shows is that in any technical field there are people who are
better and more poorly informed or that some didn't pay enough attention
in the training sessions.

It's true of trades people and lawyers and doctors, and, yes, Epson techs.

Q: As the joke goes, what do you call the guy who got the lowest passing
grades in medical school?

A: "Doctor".

Do I want that guy as MY doctor? No. So I try to learn how to weed out
the informed from the ill-informed by doing research and using my own
intellect.

In spite of your experience with two bad printers, millions of people
use Epson inkjet printers and a good portion of those use them in
commercial or professional applications, and wouldn't use another brand.

There are reasons Epson printers and their head technology are the most
adopted in professional fine arts and commercial applications. If there
really were better alternatives, people would be flocking to them.

We'll see how successful Canon is with their wide carriage professional
pigment ink models over the next year or so. They only recently
introduced these printers.

I am not loyal to any brand, I'm only interested in good competition in
the marketplace, good corporate citizenship, good environmental ethics
and good quality color output. None of the companies are stellar in all
these areas. Strictly on output quality, Epson still has the edge. On
the larger printer, oem consumables, Epson wins also.

As I have said many times before, and I don't hide it, Epson printers
require more maintenance, if for no other reasons than the inks they can
use and the permanent heads.

Art

 

[Davy]

Markywrote

I'm not sure why they told you that more than
cleanings woul

damage the heads because it simply isn't true.

Maybe you ought to argue the point with an Epson tec

sometimes they even send you extra ink if it th
circumstance

You gotta be joking, I wasted almost a new tank thanks to the

[quote:6c057ea01d]but they usually replace the printer with ne
inks[/quote:6c057ea01d

Again you gotta be joking, any comment on "air bubble will damage th
heads", may be thats wrong as well...

Epson are giving themselves a bad name judging by your comments don'
you think..

Dav

 

[measekite]

What it shows is that in any technical field there are people who are
better and more poorly informed or that some didn't pay enough
attention in the training sessions.

It's true of trades people and lawyers and doctors, and, yes, Epson
techs.

Q: As the joke goes, what do you call the guy who got the lowest
passing grades in medical school?

A: "Doctor".

Do I want that guy as MY doctor? No. So I try to learn how to weed
out the informed from the ill-informed by doing research and using my
own intellect.

I WANT THAT GUY AS FRANKIE CRANKIE AND BUTIE FURTIES DOCTOR

 

[Davy]

Arthur Entlichwrote
quote="Arthur Entlich"]What it shows is that in any technical fiel
there are people who are

better and more poorly informed or that some didn't pay enoug attention
in the training sessions

What does that exactly say about Epson, if they ain't concerned as t
what standards there own employers attain - that say's a lot fo
their organisation

In plain speaking.... 'crap'.....

Dav

 

[JohnQPublic]

OK, I think we get it. There is 2 or 3 people in this newsgroup that do not
like Epson printers. Quite frankly, it's getting a little tired. Most people
come into these groups to ask for help. Not be berated for owning an Epson
printer. I would like to say thanks to Arthur Entlich for his help to anyone
who asks. And for not stooping to the levels of these other people. Always
professional and not the type to get into childish shouting match threads
with name calling and foul language.

Arthur Entlichwrote:

quote="Arthur Entlich"]What it shows is that in any technical field
there are people who are

better and more poorly informed or that some didn't pay enough attention
in the training sessions.

What does that exactly say about Epson, if they ain't concerned as to
what standards there own employers attain - that say's a lot for
their organisation.

In plain speaking.... 'crap'.....!

Davy

 

[Marky]

I too will confirm (although I have told Davy this at least six times
already, so what's the point) that doing six cleanings will not damage
the heads. Davy wants to believe this, so be it.

As you stated, cleaning the heads that many times just wastes ink and
gums up the parking cleaning pad and waste ink pads.

Art

Thanks for confirming that Art. It is unfortunate that some reps tell/told
people that, but if you get information from a source you believe should
know it is difficult to work the truth into the scenario when someone
actually provides it...

 

[Davy]

JohnQPublicwrote

OK, I think we get it. There is 2 or 3 people i
this newsgroup that do not

like Epson printers

When Epson Technical starts giving 'so-called' wrong advice and advic
that is against other knowledgeable people then something i
drastically wrong

Anyone including you would not argue with a so called Technician an
would take their advice as genuine

This is partly root of the problem, Epson ought to get their ac
together if Art is right

What does that exactly say about Epson, if they ain't concerned as t
what standards there own employers attain - that say's a lot fo
their organisation

In plain speaking.... 'crap'.....!

Dav

 

[Marky]

Markywrote:

I'm not sure why they told you that more than 6
cleanings would

damage the heads because it simply isn't true.

Maybe you ought to argue the point with an Epson tech

That wouldn't be necessary at this point...maybe that tech is long gone
anyways...did you know that these people last an average of 6 months on the
front line? Do you know how difficult it is to train several hundred people
in a year and to make sure they all say the right thing?

You gotta be joking, I wasted almost a new tank thanks to them

I have, personally, sent out case loads of ink over the years...if a
customer has a legitimate complaint about using up half an ink cartridge it
is not a big deal to send them another one...they will, after all, buy more
eventually and most actually buy the genuine inks...

[quote:6c057ea01d]but they usually replace the printer with new
inks[/quote:6c057ea01d]

Again you gotta be joking, any comment on "air bubble will damage the
heads", may be thats wrong as well...!

Perhaps in the UK they don't offer this option, but the warranty in the USA
provides that most ink jets can be replaced if they fail. The key there is
that they take your credit card and if you send a printer back that is
simply out of ink they can, and will, bill you for it...

Epson are giving themselves a bad name judging by your comments don't
you think..?

The thing is, I've said it more than once that they are going above and
beyond the regular warranty. I don't spend much time reading about other
manufacturers products so I've heard little of issues with Canon, HP or
others. I'm sure it has happened and I'd be interested to find out what
those companies did, if anything, to satisfy their customers...

You had a bad experience with Epson...you probably wouldn't believe the
number of people who I spoke with that claimed they'd never buy HP, Canon or
others' products again and loved their Epson.

It's only in the last few years that there has been any kind of forum like
this where people can voice their opinions. Well, they've actually been
around for a while but the number of people accessing them has increased
exponentially lately...you may be technically savy in your own field and
know more than the average person about printers, but the majority of people
on the internet now have only had a personal computer for a very short
period of time and most of those systems came with a new printer.

These are the people that usually scream the loudest and do the least about
their situation and would rather blame the matter on corporate greed than to
spend an hour searching the internet for information...it's so easy to do it
that way and people are, generally, lazy over here and expect that their $40
printer should come with a lifetime guarantee...

Cheers!

 

[Marky]

OK, I think we get it. There is 2 or 3 people in this newsgroup that do not
like Epson printers. Quite frankly, it's getting a little tired. Most people
come into these groups to ask for help. Not be berated for owning an Epson
printer. I would like to say thanks to Arthur Entlich for his help to anyone
who asks. And for not stooping to the levels of these other people. Always
professional and not the type to get into childish shouting match threads
with name calling and foul language.

Yes, I've noticed that about him too...

 

[Davy]

Markywrote:

but the majority of people

on the internet now have only had a personal computer for a very short
period of time and most of those systems came with a new printer.


And thjere are people who build their own computer, Epson printers

are not supplied with 'ALL' 'ready to go computers.

These are the people that usually scream the loudest and do the least about
their situation and would rather blame the matter on corporate greed than to
spend an hour searching the internet for information.

Printers under warrenty should be delt with by the manufacturer not
Tom, Dick or Harry.

that way and people are, generally, lazy over here and expect that their $40
printer should come with a lifetime guarantee...

A 12 month warrenty should mean a 12 month warrenty whether the
printer is sold for $5 or $500

This is a failure on the manufacturer and not the user, it is not the
customer who should argue the rights and wrongs of their so called
technical experts.

If an Epson Tech say's do not do more than 6 cleans or head damage
will result I would assume that would be correct.

Who are you, me or Art to argue, the Tech is employed by Epson can't
you understand.

If the printers are forever clogging and Epson say's you want a new
head, hands you another printer and that goes exactly the same way in
the same period of time.

whether refurbished or not it was supplied by Epson who should ensure
that printer is going to be reliable.

You have said people expect a lifetime warrenty on other ocassions, I
would have expected someone like you to understand that 12 months
warrenty means that faulty products will be fix or replaced in that
period

I expect the product to be either fixed or exchanged , you seem to
assuming that I expect a lifetime warrenty and I exclude the nozzle
cleans here.

Davy

 

[Arthur Entlich]

No, it says that Epson UK has/had some poorer employees. It something
nearly impossible to screen out of a large organization.

Art

Arthur Entlichwrote:

quote="Arthur Entlich"]What it shows is that in any technical field
there are people who are

better and more poorly informed or that some didn't pay enough
attention

in the training sessions.

What does that exactly say about Epson, if they ain't concerned as to
what standards there own employers attain - that say's a lot for
their organisation.

In plain speaking.... 'crap'.....!

Davy