Question re Canon iP1500

[Mary]

Although the cost of the ip1500 carts may appear cheap to you, they are
really expensive when you figure how little ink is in them (just repeating
what Zakezuke said).

That may be true, but it doesn't seem so bad spending small amounts of
money at a time. If you buy a more expensive printer, you pay more for
the carts. they may last longer, but seems you lay out more money at a
time. I've enjoyed having the ip1500 and its too bad its got something
wrong with it now. I thought it would last longer. The BJC 2100 lasted 3
years and would still have lasted except the printhead was going to cost
more than the printer was worth. It was a better built printer than the
ip1500 but I liked the ip1500 OK.

The rule of thumb is - the cheaper the printer, the
more expensive the ink.

I found the ip1500 had cheaper ink carts than printers you pay more for
and cheaper than other brands of printers, but as you say maybe the
carts don't last as long. I really don't know about that.

With the purchase of G&G or Procolor aftermarket
carts online from Alotofthings the extra cost of the ip4000 would come back
to you many times over. I'm sorry to see that you've made up your mind
about the separate cart issue.

I might think about the ip4000. Is it separate color carts?

I can also tell you that, with a little
advanced preparation, refilling isn't any harder or more messy than most of
the cooking I've done!

Haha, is your cooking that messy? I would hope that refilling ink carts
would be much more messy. I've heard people try them and complain it was
too messy. Lets say I would rather not do it. I don't think I have the
right kind of patience. I have patience for some things but not others.
I just want to get a tri color cart, so would like a printer that will
take one. There must be some. I have found the ip1500 to print ok for my
purposes and the Epson I had for a year and a half put me off separate
carts..

Do you know anyone who belongs to costco and would
buy you some of the Kirkland glossy photo paper? With that paper and cheap
aftermarket ink you will beat any of the retail photo costs. With refilling
and Costco paper My 4x6 prints probably don't cost more than seven or eight
cents US. 8x10 or 8.5x11 prints probably cost me about twenty-five or
thirty cents. That's for paper (Costco) and ink (MIS bulk ink for refills)
together.

Actually, I don't know anyone who belongs to Costco though there is one
not far from where I live, but not that many in Toronto area. Costco is
not big here like in the States. Only a certain niche of the population
go there. And they may not have the same photo paper you mention above
even though its an American Co. People with children get more benefit
from Costco since they sell a lot of stuff in bulk. I had a membership
in it years ago, but found I never used it.

The bottom line, however, is that you have to be comfortable doing things
the way you want to. No matter what your decision, I think it's great that
you have put together the whole digital camera/computer/printer process and
are enjoying it!

I've had a computer for 16 years so its not new to me. I do all my own
upgrading. I got tired phoning my son in law . As for the digital
camera, it took me about 5 or 6 months to get one I liked. In the
meantime I was doing a lot of research on them. Prices are higher here
than the US, escept for HP which is a reasonable price. One good thing
though, digital cameras here are often on sale and quite a few camera
stores who price match each other. Staples used to give you 150%
difference between their price and competitors, but that ended just
before I bought my camera. Now they just give 10%. I still have a lot to
learn about my camera.I got the Sony W5 and it seems fine.

I am not in a rush, since I have the extended warranty and can take the
ip1500 back, so
will go to the 4 Staples stores around me this week if I can, and see
what model printers and prices they have. It was online I saw the ip4000
but I like to see things for myself and rarely buy anything online
unless I've seen it. Their online products are not always in their
stores though, and vice versa.. So its a bit of a nuisance to go to
different Staples but the best way.

Mary

 

[zakezuke]

Actually, I don't know anyone who belongs to Costco though there is one

not far from where I live, but not that many in Toronto area. Costco is
not big here like in the States. Only a certain niche of the population
go there. And they may not have the same photo paper you mention above
even though its an American Co. People with children get more benefit
from Costco since they sell a lot of stuff in bulk. I had a membership
in it years ago, but found I never used it.

The Kirkland photopaper, the 125pack of 8.5x11 is the same in Canada
(vancouver at least), US, and Mexico (at least Merida), and almost the
same in the UK except it's offered at a4 not letter. It's a swiss
import, USD $20ish. Can't remember what it cost in vancouver but it
was on par with the price US.

I found the ip1500 had cheaper ink carts than printers you pay more for
and cheaper than other brands of printers, but as you say maybe the
carts don't last as long. I really don't know about that.

Those thimble sized tanks are double to tripple the cost per ml. The
ip3000/4000/5000 is the middle ground between a good cost per page and
starting investment. 25ml black pigment and 14ml color. The next step
up is something along the lines of the HP business jet 2300 which would
cost you USD$500 to USD$900 dependong on options, and the 4 tanks cost
US$33.99 each, but the black is 69ml and the color is 28ml, and IIRC
it's more efficent than canon in terms of ml per page. Note double the
volume but less than double the cost. A great deal but most people are
not hip to spending so much they won't see any savings till after a few
years of use.

 

[Mary]

The Kirkland photopaper, the 125pack of 8.5x11 is the same in Canada
(vancouver at least), US, and Mexico (at least Merida), and almost the
same in the UK except it's offered at a4 not letter. It's a swiss
import, USD $20ish. Can't remember what it cost in vancouver but it
was on par with the price US.

Are you in Vancouver?
Well, I might see about paper later, but a printer and reasonably priced
carts to go with it, is on my mind right now.

Those thimble sized tanks are double to tripple the cost per ml. The
ip3000/4000/5000 is the middle ground between a good cost per page and
starting investment. 25ml black pigment and 14ml color.

Do the 3000/4000 have tri color cartridges? I won't ask about the 5000
because I saw it on the site of Future shop and much too expensive for
me. I might be willing to check out the 4000 if its not individual
tanks. The 4200 is only $10.00 more than the 4000 but somebody else said
the 4200 are hard to fill

The next step

up is something along the lines of the HP business jet 2300 which would
cost you USD$500 to USD$900 dependong on options, and the 4 tanks cost
US$33.99 each, but the black is 69ml and the color is 28ml, and IIRC
it's more efficent than canon in terms of ml per page. Note double the
volume but less than double the cost. A great deal but most people are
not hip to spending so much they won't see any savings till after a few
years of use.

I'm complaining that $129.00 Can. is too much money, so an HP business
jet would definitely be out of my league It might be practical in an
office, but not for an average persons home use.

Mary

 

[zakezuke]

Yes, it would cost more - thats no good. I wonder why they did that when

the ip1500 has tri color carts. Don't some other manufacturers such as
Lexmark have mainly or only head on carts? Just wondered - is Canon the
best printer to get? or are there other brands just as good? High on my
requirements is a printer that takes carts that are not too expensive,
though all of them are, but the least or close to it and one that has
available compatibles.

The last time I worked out the math, the base Lexmarks offered ink
somewhere in the neighborhood of $10,000/Galon US, vs $3000 to $5000.

Canon offers a really general purpose printer. I prefer the Epsons for
photos in many ways, but I find thier cheaper models to be too fickle.
HP makes some nice rock solid printers and if it wasn't for CD printing
i'd probally still be buying HPs.

For compatables... Canon is good, followed by Epson. Note new canons
have no compatable cartridges on the market *yet*, the ip4000 was the
last one that didn't have a fancy chip onboard. Epsons also have chips
but this is not an issue.

The thing I liked about the ip1500 it has a printhead you could take out
if needing cleaned, and just had to buy carts and also the carts were
cheaper than most other printers.

Not an option at all with epson, though cleaning in the printer is an
option. I haven't used the new HPs.

And it printed photos good enough for
me. It was cheap to buy but I found it satisfactory for my purposes.
Other people may like to get really good printers but I am happy with a
cheaper printer as long as it works fine for me.

There is nothing at all wrong with wanting to spend little money on a
printer, esp since for photos as you said before you can go to walmart.
The problem is the divide between the el cheepo printer cost per page
and the base consumer model cost per page has gotten higher, and your
class of printer is no longer made. That leaves you with the choice of
getting a new head, which is a legit option since you are happy with
it, or getting another printer. The ip3000 and ip4000 were the
cheapest models you could buy which offered the best cost per page for
text, and did great photos and a resonable cost per page, and were
among the most easy to refill and have a ton of aftermarket cartridges
on the market.

The only other option is buying a used printer, which is from what I
can tell the only way you'll find a printer that'll take the bci-24
series of cartridges, which may require that $50 head and has some
dampness in the diaper.

 

[Burt]

Do the 3000/4000 have tri color cartridges? I won't ask about the 5000
because I saw it on the site of Future shop and much too expensive for
me. I might be willing to check out the 4000 if its not individual
tanks. The 4200 is only $10.00 more than the 4000 but somebody else said
the 4200 are hard to fill

The ip4000 has separate carts with much greater volume of ink than the
ip1500 carts. It also has a removable printhead. As Zakezuke explained,
your cost per page with the ip4000 is much cheaper than with the ip1500, and
you can purchase aftermarket carts or bulk ink on line to really cut your
cost down. Be sure, however, to get advice from someone who has used these
products and not just buy something that wasn't recommended. That's why I
gave you the two links to follow up on if you want to go in that direction.
The ip1600 has no aftermarket carts and has the printhead integrated into
the cart. The ip4200 now has carts with computer chips built in. There are
currently aftermarket inks coming into the marketplace but no aftermarket
carts. The Canon OEM carts in the ip4200 can be refilled , but you then
lose the "new, improved" ink monitoring system that the chips are ostensibly
built in to provide. We all suspect that the ink monitoring these chipped
carts do best is the ka-ching the cash register makes when you are forced to
buy OEM canon carts for these new printers.

I used to have an Epson printer with a tri-color cart and a black cart. I
must say, that my costs went down considerably when I switched to the canon
i960, an excellent photo printer. The ip4000 or ip5000, more general
purpose in nature, would be even more economical to operate as the i960 has
six carts, including light magenta and light cyan. These light colors are
used much more rapidly - by a ratio of three to one for the other carts.
Nonetheless, refilling my own carts has reduced my ink cost to around 10% of
OEM Canon inks. Using prefilled carts mentioned in my earlier posts for the
ip4000 would reduce ink costs to about 25% of OEM carts for this printer,
and the savings per page would be even more than your ip1500 due to the
disparity of ink volume between the tricolor cart and the individual bci-6
carts.

I now also have an ip5000 printer for my wife. One of my i960 printers and
two ip5000 printers were purchased new on closeouts for $100 each. The
ip5000's were in Staples stores on unadvertised closeouts and had no signs
out or demo models on the shelf. I just happened to see them in the boxes
stacked with the newer printers on the shelf under the demo models. ASAP -
take a trip to the Staples stores in your area and see if they have any of
these left and if they are at a closeout price. Because the demand in
Canada is less, as you've described, you may get lucky!

 

[Mary]

The last time I worked out the math, the base Lexmarks offered ink
somewhere in the neighborhood of $10,000/Galon US, vs $3000 to $5000.

Is that very expensive?

Canon offers a really general purpose printer. I prefer the Epsons for
photos in many ways, but I find thier cheaper models to be too fickle.
HP makes some nice rock solid printers and if it wasn't for CD printing
i'd probally still be buying HPs.

Any HP models you know of that are not too expensive but quite good and
have reasonably priced carts? I prefer tri color carts. They are more
convenient. If I stop priting photos so much, I won't be using up as
much ink and don't want to bother with separate ink carts.

Mary

 

[zakezuke]

Are you in Vancouver?

Well, I might see about paper later, but a printer and reasonably priced
carts to go with it, is on my mind right now.

I'm outside Seattle, but Vancouver is close. When ever I travel I hit
up the costco as they tend to have the best prices on things from
Razors to Pizzas.

Do the 3000/4000 have tri color cartridges? I won't ask about the 5000
because I saw it on the site of Future shop and much too expensive for
me. I might be willing to check out the 4000 if its not individual
tanks. The 4200 is only $10.00 more than the 4000 but somebody else said
the 4200 are hard to fill

Bugger that other post got lost in the mix, which is sad as I worked
out the cost per ml for the respective canon models.

The short is the last printer to use the bci-24 tanks was the ip1500,
with the exception of a couple of multifunctions. The only printers
by canon to offer tri-color tanks are the head in the cartridge type.
Unless you can find a store that still carries the ip1500, you are out
of luck unless you want to buy a new head, which you might as well have
done that on your bj-2100, which was mechanicaly the better printer as
IIRC it wasn't sub $100 model.

Epson, as far as i'm aware, no longer offers a tri color cartridge in
their printers, nor does the head detach but cleaning the printhead in
the printer is an option.

Refilling the ip4200 is an option, but there are NO aftermarket tanks
for them.

HP offers the inktank based printers, but takes 6 tanks.

[all prices in canadian funds, not including GST/VAT]

-ip1600-
12ml Black PG-40 $29.96 $2.50/ml
9ml Color cl-41 $34.96 $3.88/ml
-While aftermarket ink exists, this is a head on the cartridge type.
No 3rd party cartridges exist so far as i'm aware.

-ip1500
OEM
9.5ml Black bci24bk $9.46 $1.00/ml
16.5ml Color bci-24c $27.96 $1.70/ml

Combo pack black/color $30.96 $1.19/ml Average


-Staples ink
9.5ml Black $7.09 75c/ml
16.5ml Color $20.96 $1.27/ml

-Aftermarket exists for this printer. Tends to be more dear as they
are thimble sized cartridges, and it's gotta be worth their time to
stick in a box. Bulk ink exists as well, though not as easy as the
ip4000 as the tanks as you know are not clear.

-ip4000/5000
-OEM-
25ml Black BCI-3e - $16.98 68c/ml
4x14ml Color bci-6 -$17.96 $1.28/ml
average 1.09/ml

Tri color pack $49.96 $1.18/ml



-Staples-
50ml black twin pack $33.46 67c/ml
14ml color $13.46 96c/ml

-Aftermarket exists for this printer by the bucketload. ip3000 is the
same but doesn't take the extra black, so only 4 tanks, not 5. The 5th
tank is a bit of a money saver for photos as photos in the ip3000 and
your printer mix primary colors to make black at a cost of 3x$1.28
assuming OEM. However it only uses the black if the blackness is about
80% or so. I use up the black on my mp760 at a rate of 1/4 as much as
the other colors. It's a savings, just not one I can measure easily.
-----

-OEM cost/ml-
ip1600 = 2.50 & 3.88 / ml
ip1500 = 1.00 & 1.70 / ml
ip4000 = 68c/ml & $1.28/ml
----------
* While cost per ml isn't always a good mesure of cost to operate, in
this case they are both canons using similar technology with similar
efficency. We can establish that the ip1600 costs over tripple to
operate than the ip4000.


Bulk example cost per ml.
-hobbicolor- ebay
IP-4000 kit $22.00 US or CDN$25.81
[includes easy to refill cartridges with thumb screws]
Shipping (canada is now on the list)
$6.00 or 7.04 Canadian
CDN $32.85 354.88ml or 9.2c/ml (yes OEM is over 10 times the cost or
$391)
For 2oz of cyan magana yellow dye black
4oz of pigment black

-------------------------

Ip4200 is similar in cost, slightly higher, but there are no
aftermarket ink cartridges for it at all due to the new chips. There
is bulk ink, but no easy peasy solution like the ip4000 yet. If you
refill, you gotta use brute force. I'll have more details when I get
my ip5200 in the mail, it's schedualed for Friday. It's "easy" enough
just you have to refill OEM tanks at this point.
----------------------

I'm complaining that $129.00 Can. is too much money, so an HP business
jet would definitely be out of my league It might be practical in an
office, but not for an average persons home use.

Well... it's not about office or home, it's about volume.

And actually you can find a businessjet in used circles for $200ish,
just an older model that's not so spiffy with photos.

The ip1500 was OK... though a tad spendy in the ink department even
though it was deceptivly cheap per tank. And people like your self
could meter their use based on the tiny size with ease. I'm not going
to try to change your mind on that issue... there are tons of people
who don't mind thimble sized tanks. But the simple fact is they don't
make it anymore, nor is there anything similar that i'm aware of on the
market. Your only options are.

1. Replace the head on your ip1500, replace the diaper
2. Get a used printer, high end BJ-xxxx or ip1500
*3. Get a ip3000/4000/5000

Your long term costs can drop by manual refilling, or mail ordering
prefilled tanks. The kit by hobbicolors on e-bay is as easy, and cheap
as it gets.

--------------------

But this is the point i'm not clear on... You have a store warranty...
do you have a printer warranty. Canon is very hip provided your within
your year warranty period... to sending you a new printhead. No
problem.

 

[zakezuke]

Any HP models you know of that are not too expensive but quite good and

have reasonably priced carts? I prefer tri color carts. They are more
convenient. If I stop priting photos so much, I won't be using up as
much ink and don't want to bother with separate ink carts.

I'm a froogle person, so I don't know the sub $100 market for printers
very well.

All prices canadian

Under $100 you have the hp 3845 for CDN $50
8ml Black HP 27 $28.63 $3.50/ml 220pages 13c/page
HP 28 $33.62 190 pages 17c/page
$62.25
Optional #58 photo cartridge, for spiffy photos you gotta buy "another"
cartridge that doesn't live in your printer.

For $100
HP Deskjet 5440
5ml Black #92 $19.93 210 pages 9c/page
5ml Color #93 $24.96 175 pages 14c/page
$44.89

Also under $100
Lexmark Z517 Inkjet Printer
#16 Black $39.96 400p 10c/page
#26 Color $44.96 150p 29c/page
$84.92

-or-
Canon ip4000 over $100
$130 to $150
25ml Black BCI-3e - $16.98 500pages 3c/page
4x14ml Color bci-6 -$17.96 280 pages Somewhere between 19c/page and
24c/page
$88.82

-------

Yes, there are tri-color cartridge options. Head on the cartridge
type. Color is harder to calculate but without a doubt you'll end up
spending triple the cost per page for black. Plus aftermarket ink will
be more spendy on this type.

OEM ink

Black text, 5% yield.
hp 3845 1500p $195.20
hp 5440 1500p $142.36
Lexmark Z5171500p $149.85
Canon ip4000 1500p $51

This is not to say you can't find a used HP that takes nice sized tanks
that cost a reasonable price, but on the new front... after your 3rd
ream of paper your spending $100 more for black ink. Your average user
will see savings after 1 year of use spending $50 to $70 more for a
printer.

It's your call.

 

[zakezuke]

I don't think I am ambitious enough to do refilling with bulk inks. Its

not something I have any desire to do to tell you the truth. I think I
can do ok just getting a printer I can afford, and the ones suggested by
most people here are quite a lot more money here than in the US.
There is a Cosco store near me, but membership is $40.00 or $50.00 or
something and I can't justify it as I used to go there but found that I
didn't get my money out of it and preferred to shop other places.
Besides, there is no guarantee that the same things you can buy in the
US can be bought here as well. When buying products you have a lot more
choices than we do and lower prices. There is often a lot of good sales
here though, so usually I wait for them and with my camera, I bought it
on sale at a cheaper price than most camera stores in the US listed them
as. Its very challenging to live here in regards to prices. You have to
be a good bargain hunter or can pay through the nose. I have to watch my
money Burt.

Costco is one of those things... not everyone "sees" the savings. For
something like printer ink it tends to be really good. Tires... if my
car took 14 inch tires than costco would be the best choice. I have a
cheepo car with 13 inch rims, that size that is always advertised at
$100 for a set of 4, but for average people in north america that have
don't have the base model car tire savings is typicaly $50.00. There
is always 1 thing at costco that saves as much as the membership
yearly. In my case it's glasses. Photo paper is the other thing, and
Blank DVDs is the other "big thing". The other big deal is the card is
good when I travel. The photocenter is "NICE", and since the small
time labs are shutting down this is where I go. The other nice aspect
is return policy, they are hip to taking items they sold a hassle,
strange in the 21st century.

While you *can* often wait for sales and specificly buy things based on
someone else's time table, and in most cases beat costcos prices...
there are times where that is simply not an option. For me, if I break
my glasses... I can't operate without them.

You'd be surprised how many of the products are the same between
Costcos in Canada, US, and Mexico. It's the funny thing about dealing
with such bulk... it's worth the time to import, esp with products that
are foreign to both the US and Canada such as Kirkland Photopaper.

Kirkland Photopaper is popular enough that many a website and small
business buy it from costco and resell it for more. More popular are
those who make ciggerette runs from the east to the west.

Its very challenging to live here in regards to prices. You have to
be a good bargain hunter or can pay through the nose.

Yes, you still have "future shop". The only reason I think they are
still in operation in Canada is because they are Canadian owned.

So far I haven't seen the ip1500 in STaples and I have to deal with them
to get a new printer undr my extended warranty. I really don't want to
pay a lot for a printer.

What you pay for your printer is pretty much meaningless. Whether you
buy the $50 printer, or the $150 printer, you will without a doubt
spend more on ink than the printer unless you go aftermarket bulk ink,
or find a great deal on refills. It's the cost of the supplies, if you
are buying OEM, that will run you hundreds of dollars. It's the cost
of the supplies that are paramount to the budget.

If you want cheap refills... you gotta buy a multi-tank printer. There
isn't anything like the ip1500 currently made with a tri color tank.
There just is not.

------------------

The other printer that's on the market that i'd seirously consider is
the hp 8250. It's CDN$249.92. It offers a spiffy photo pack that
includes 6 inks for CDN $49.92 and 150 sheets of 4x6 paper rather than
81.76 if you bought the inks one at a time. The yield isn't high but
the cost per page isn't horrible, ink efficency from my understanding
is very high.

Yes, this is more money.
----------------------

HP isn't horrible on the tri-color front, and most of the base models
give you the option to buy the spiffy photo cartridge and use "as
needed", but the cost for black, plain black text, will eat you alive
on models under $100.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Future Shop isn't Canadian owned anymore. It started out privately
owned in Canada. Was then sold and made public but still held in
Canada. It is now owned by Best Buy, a US company.

The name has value to them, since it was built and billed as a Canadian
company. Best Buy doesn't really want you to know or think about Future
Shop as theirs. Lately, they have been opening up Best Buy stores right
across the way from Future Shop, so they can "play" off one another for
pricing. It is the same game they play in shopping malls where 3 or 4
athletic shoe stores, all with different names and slightly different
stock, carry on business, and people "comparison shop" between the
stores, thinking they are shopping for the best deal. However, all the
shops are actually owned by one parent company, so they don't care which
store you end up buying at. You may "save" a few bucks, but any way you
look at it, you've made the purchase from the same business, and since
all are owned by one company, the prices never vary more than a few
bucks, since they "control" the level of competition between them.

It gives people a nice warm feeling that they comparison shopped and
came home with the best deal "in the mall". The thing is, a shop 2
blocks down, independently owned, might have offered the same pair of
shoes for 40% less, but they don't want you leaving the mall, so they
offer you "fake" shopping around. Future Shop and Best Buy do just
that. I was told that in Toronto somewhere they opened up a Best Buy
next to a Future Shop, as an experiment. There was also an Office Depot
and Staples in the same area. When the Best Buy opened, Future Shop
"lost" about 10-15% of the business to them, but Staples and Office
Depot lost over 40% between them to them, so that still put them 40%
ahead, since the Future Shop business was just transferred from one
store to the other.

Nothing better than owning your supposed competition. The food industry
does it all the time.

Art

 

[zakezuke]

Future Shop isn't Canadian owned anymore. It started out privately

owned in Canada. Was then sold and made public but still held in
Canada. It is now owned by Best Buy, a US company.

Thanks for the heads up. Knowing they are owned by someone else and
the business practice of faux competition increases the likelyhood that
i'd actually go in one. Not by much.

 

[measekite]

NO MARY MARY QUITE CONTRARY IS TALKING TO MATT ZUKOWSKI AKA ZOOKIE COOKIE

 

[measekite]

Are you in Vancouver?
Well, I might see about paper later, but a printer and reasonably priced
carts to go with it, is on my mind right now.

HE IS IN TOOKISSVILE

Do the 3000/4000 have tri color cartridges? I won't ask about the 5000
because I saw it on the site of Future shop and much too expensive for
me.

YOU ARE A JOKE IF YOU THINK THAT DISCONTUED MODEL IS EXPENSIVE

I might be willing to check out the 4000 if its not individual
tanks. The 4200 is only $10.00 more than the 4000 but somebody else said
the 4200 are hard to fill

NOBODY CARES AND ONLY STUPID PEOPLE WANT A TRICOLOR

 

[measekite]

I JUST CANNOT BELIEVE THE NONSENSE SHE WRITES AND HOW MUCH SHE DOES NOT KNOW

Mary wrote:

THE USUAL STUPIDITY

SNIP UNREADABLE DIATRIBE

 

[zakezuke]

Measekite said: "the ip4200 is $80".

Two points.

1. You said just a short time ago that the ip4000 was better in terms
of speed than the ip4200 and one would be a fool to buy it.

2. We are talking with a Canadian who near as i'm aware has limited
her options to Staples due to the extended warranty.

I have only "heard" of the ip3200, i've never seen one for sale. I
"imagine" it would be like the ip4200 but missing the dye black. My
ip3000 is just dandy without the dye black, though on matte paper it
does get a tad soggy for black areas. This is easily resolved setting
the paper type to plain paper.

Mary seems to want a printer that has cheap supplies. There are no
aftermarket supplies other than bulk ink for the ip4200 presently.

 

[Mary]

Two points.

1. You said just a short time ago that the ip4000 was better in terms
of speed than the ip4200 and one would be a fool to buy it.

2. We are talking with a Canadian who near as i'm aware has limited
her options to Staples due to the extended warranty.

I have only "heard" of the ip3200, i've never seen one for sale. I
"imagine" it would be like the ip4200 but missing the dye black. My
ip3000 is just dandy without the dye black, though on matte paper it
does get a tad soggy for black areas. This is easily resolved setting
the paper type to plain paper.

Mary seems to want a printer that has cheap supplies.

Who doesn't? .

Mary


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[Mary]

Future Shop isn't Canadian owned anymore. It started out privately
owned in Canada. Was then sold and made public but still held in
Canada. It is now owned by Best Buy, a US company.

Like Staples used to be Business Depot till it was bought by Staples. It
still has Business Depot/Staples outside their stores for people
familiar with Business Depot name. Hudsons Bay was just bought by a rich
American guy not long ago. They all get offers they can't refuse I
guess.

The name has value to them, since it was built and billed as a Canadian
company. Best Buy doesn't really want you to know or think about Future
Shop as theirs. Lately, they have been opening up Best Buy stores right
across the way from Future Shop, so they can "play" off one another for
pricing.

I'm in the east end of Toronto and only one Best Buy out my way but
about 4 Future shops, one FS a 5 min. drive from me. I was there
yesterday in fact. I have not seen Best Buy and Future shop stores close
to each other, but it could be the case in some areas. There are a lot
more Future shops here than Best Buy. About 8 Best Buys in Toronto and
immediate area and about 14 FS's. Myself I prefer Future shop, as they
have more variety. Maybe its just the Best Buy near me. It was built
only about a year ago near a large shopping mall. I find they don't have
the same amount of variety and prices are a little more there than
Future shop.

It is the same game they play in shopping malls where 3 or 4

athletic shoe stores, all with different names and slightly different
stock, carry on business, and people "comparison shop" between the
stores, thinking they are shopping for the best deal. However, all the
shops are actually owned by one parent company, so they don't care which
store you end up buying at. You may "save" a few bucks, but any way you
look at it, you've made the purchase from the same business, and since
all are owned by one company, the prices never vary more than a few
bucks, since they "control" the level of competition between them.

One difference between the two stores is Best Buy sales people are not
on commision, and wear a badge saying "we are not on commission" meaning
they don't bug people to buy like some Future shop sales people do as
they are not on commission. I don't have a problem with FS sales people,
maybe because they know me and know I don't want to be bugged and like
to look around.

It gives people a nice warm feeling that they comparison shopped and
came home with the best deal "in the mall". The thing is, a shop 2
blocks down, independently owned, might have offered the same pair of
shoes for 40% less, but they don't want you leaving the mall, so they
offer you "fake" shopping around. Future Shop and Best Buy do just
that. I was told that in Toronto somewhere they opened up a Best Buy
next to a Future Shop, as an experiment. There was also an Office Depot
and Staples in the same area. When the Best Buy opened, Future Shop
"lost" about 10-15% of the business to them, but Staples and Office
Depot lost over 40% between them to them, so that still put them 40%
ahead, since the Future Shop business was just transferred from one
store to the other.

I don't know where that would be. not out my way anyway. Toronto is huge
so could be in the west end and I know nothing whats out there - too far

Nothing better than owning your supposed competition. The food industry
does it all the time.

They all have marketing ploys to try to make a decent profit and
survive.

Mary

 

[Mary]

Yes, you still have "future shop". The only reason I think they are
still in operation in Canada is because they are Canadian owned.

Not any more. Best Buy bought them out a few years ago. But Future shop
stock has not changed in any way that I can see and I';ve been going to
the same Future shop near me for 10 years. Some people don't know that
Best Buy owns it now as it looks exactly the same with same sales
people. Only difference is its American owned now instead of Canadian,
but so is a lot of chain stores now.

What you pay for your printer is pretty much meaningless. Whether you
buy the $50 printer, or the $150 printer, you will without a doubt
spend more on ink than the printer unless you go aftermarket bulk ink,
or find a great deal on refills. It's the cost of the supplies, if you
are buying OEM, that will run you hundreds of dollars. It's the cost
of the supplies that are paramount to the budget.

If you want cheap refills... you gotta buy a multi-tank printer. There
isn't anything like the ip1500 currently made with a tri color tank.
There just is not.

I went to one of the STaplels stores I often go to yesterday and spoke
to the sales guy who I know will give me his honest opinion and not
store opinion. I looked at a few printers and he and I looked at the
price of the cartridges that go with the printers as that is what I will
be using.
I don't plan on using aftermarket bulk ink, though maybe would to to an
ink refiller in the mall at some point. I am sure its fine for many
people, but its not big here for the average home printer, unless you
print a lot of photos, which I did off and on but won't be printing so
many in future.

Some printers had features I liked but didn't have something else. We
only looked at about 5 printers. A few were tricolor carts which is fine
for me and different color carts are more of a hassle in my view at
least. I've done that and don't want to do it again. Sales guy showed
me:

HP5440 - for $90.00 (all prices Can. - US $ =$1.18 = one Can.$)
This one was tricolor and cost $45.00 for both color and black carts -
no Staples compatibles.
We checked amount of ink in the color and it was about the same as the
BCI 24 Canon color which is what I use, 14 ml's or so, and the black HP
one was a little more volume than the BCI 24 black but Canon two pack
cost $25.00 compared to $45.00 for HP. He said the HP is a new printer
on the market- for Canadian market at least. I think the carts came with
printheads.

Canon ip4000 cost $65.00 for both carts and not much more ink in them
than the ip1500 and as you know, print heads on carts. thats why they
are a lot more than my ip1500.

The other printer that's on the market that i'd seirously consider is
the hp 8250. It's CDN$249.92. It offers a spiffy photo pack that
includes 6 inks for CDN $49.92 and 150 sheets of 4x6 paper rather than
81.76 if you bought the inks one at a time. The yield isn't high but
the cost per page isn't horrible, ink efficency from my understanding
is very high.

Yes, this is more money.

Way out of my leage and not necessary for my needs.

HP isn't horrible on the tri-color front, and most of the base models

give you the option to buy the spiffy photo cartridge and use "as
needed", but the cost for black, plain black text, will eat you alive
on models under $100.

the new one I saw HP5440 was $90.00 and had the cheapest carts I looked
at yesterday - though a lot more than the ip1500.

There was also HP 5940 - tri color and black carts, optional tanks for
photos. it was $130.00.
I saw on Staples website the HP3845 I think you mentioned but the sale
guy said none of the stores have them. The warehouse has them but the
warehouse stuff and store stuff are sold separately. He said it wasn't a
bad printer but pretty well sold out in all Staples stores.

I didn't see any printers that had color and black carts for $25.00 like
the ip1500. They were about twice the price and not much more volume
either. Most HP's had printheads on carts, and no special values. Have
to buy name brands. Canon has the most STaples brands compatibles.

The sales guy suggested I clean the bottom of the printhead with acetate
like nail polish to see if that helps, which I did. I also took Tony's
suggestion of turning down the magenta in printer properties and that
seemed to help. But whether that lasts or not, is another matter.
Tony sent me the codes to stop the message I was getting about "waste
ink absorber almost full, press Resume button" but as far as I know that
is only to stop the messaage from appearing. Last night, the message
wasn't there, but it might come back.

I also got more information on Warranties and extended warranty with
Staples. I mentioned about some people here saying to phone Canon to get
a printhead, and he said it isn't done that way here, or not in Staples
at least. During the first year of the warranty, if the product you buy
such as a printer is under $200.00, and even if you have no extended
warranty with Staples, if something goes wrong with your printer,
Staples will replace it. If you have extended warranty another year will
be added to the replacement feature. the extended warranty is $10.00 for
something under $100.00. He said the printhead for example would cost
Canon about $30.00 to replace on a printer under $200.00 and Canon don't
think its worth it for a cheap printer.

If its a printer over $200.00 and under warranty with Canon or extended
warranty with Staples, you have to take it to an authorized repair
depot for them to fix it and assess what is wrong.
Thank you for all your information. You sure know a lot about after
market inks and features of various printers. Burt does too and many
others here.

Mary

 

[Mary]

I'm a froogle person, so I don't know the sub $100 market for printers
very well.

All prices canadian

Under $100 you have the hp 3845 for CDN $50
8ml Black HP 27 $28.63 $3.50/ml 220pages 13c/page
HP 28 $33.62 190 pages 17c/page
$62.25
Optional #58 photo cartridge, for spiffy photos you gotta buy "another"
cartridge that doesn't live in your printer.

Thats the one on STaples web page but not in stores now. Its so much
cheaper than any others, I can't help but wonder if its any good. The
cheapest one I saw yesterday was $70.00. The HP3845 has to be ordered
from Staples online store, and store ordering and web ordering is
separate. You can order something from the web and take it back to the
store if you don't like it, but not the other way around - thats my
perception anyway.

For $100
HP Deskjet 5440
5ml Black #92 $19.93 210 pages 9c/page
5ml Color #93 $24.96 175 pages 14c/page
$44.89

Thats the one the sales guy said was a new model, though may not be new
on US market.

Also under $100
Lexmark Z517 Inkjet Printer
#16 Black $39.96 400p 10c/page
#26 Color $44.96 150p 29c/page
$84.92

I didn't look at Lexmark. Most people say their cartridges are the most
expensive.

-or-
Canon ip4000 over $100
$130 to $150
25ml Black BCI-3e - $16.98 500pages 3c/page
4x14ml Color bci-6 -$17.96 280 pages Somewhere between 19c/page and
24c/page
$88.82

That is $129.00 and quite expensive carts. I am not thinking about
refilling, but its interesting to know what the costs are. If anything I
would buy compatibles if its STaples brand which are ok, or maybe online
sometime, but I definitely don't want to do my own refilling.

Yes, there are tri-color cartridge options. Head on the cartridge
type. Color is harder to calculate but without a doubt you'll end up
spending triple the cost per page for black. Plus aftermarket ink will
be more spendy on this type.

OEM ink

Black text, 5% yield.
hp 3845 1500p $195.20
hp 5440 1500p $142.36
Lexmark Z5171500p $149.85
Canon ip4000 1500p $51

This is not to say you can't find a used HP that takes nice sized tanks
that cost a reasonable price, but on the new front... after your 3rd
ream of paper your spending $100 more for black ink. Your average user
will see savings after 1 year of use spending $50 to $70 more for a
printer.

It's your call.

You are really into inks in a big way and seem to know everything about
them.
I really do appreciate your giving me so much information. I've got so
much information on this NG from various people, my head is spinning
and I am not sure what printer I would get. I will have to study the
stituation more and see what I think. All printers have some good
features and not so good features. Its a matter of trade-off as to what
I am willing to trade off.

Mary

 

[Mary]

I'm outside Seattle, but Vancouver is close. When ever I travel I hit
up the costco as they tend to have the best prices on things from
Razors to Pizzas.


Bugger that other post got lost in the mix, which is sad as I worked
out the cost per ml for the respective canon models.

The short is the last printer to use the bci-24 tanks was the ip1500,
with the exception of a couple of multifunctions. The only printers
by canon to offer tri-color tanks are the head in the cartridge type.
Unless you can find a store that still carries the ip1500, you are out
of luck unless you want to buy a new head, which you might as well have
done that on your bj-2100, which was mechanicaly the better printer as
IIRC it wasn't sub $100 model.

The BJ2100 hasn't been in any stores here for years and neither is the
print heads for them. The printheads were $60.00 or $70.00 and thats why
I got a new printer a few years ago.
I do see the large black cart for the BJ2100 in some stores. Its $40.00,
and lasts a long time. I haven't used the BJ2100 for a long time though
so might not be good any more.
Electronic stores carry quite a lot of multi-function
printers/faxes/copiers now, but still more printers.some of the multi
function ones are quite cheap, but I already have a copier/scanner.

HP offers the inktank based printers, but takes 6 tanks.

The HP 5440 I think it was, was the new one the sales guy told me
about. He says that supposedly the ink comes out in droplets so is
supposed to be more efficient.

But this is the point i'm not clear on... You have a store warranty...
do you have a printer warranty. Canon is very hip provided your within
your year warranty period... to sending you a new printhead. No
problem.

As I explained in my other message, they don't do things that way here,
or at least Staples doesn't. Canon Canada dictates what they want
Staples to do I suppose. I don't know about Best Buy or Future shop, but
I suspect they will have similar procedures. If you have a machine over
$200.00 and its during the first year under warranty with manufacturer,
or even if you have an extended warranty, the machine can be taken to an
authorized dealer and they decide if you need a printhead. So you can do
that, or give it to Staples and they send it to the manufacturer for
you. If under $200.00 the store gives you a replacement - doesn't have
to be the same printer manufacturer. I had an IBM monitor a few years
ago, and had extended warranty with Future shop. in the second year, the
colors went funny and I took it back to FS. They sent it to IBM. When it
came back, it was much the same problem, so obviously they had not been
able to fix it as it should be. I took it back again to FS and saw the
Manager who I had dealings with before, and he told me just to pick out
another one as a replacement. Mine was 15" and by this time they were
all 17" so the cheapest was about $75.00 more than I paid, so he gave it
to me and didn't ask me to pay the difference. He was a good guy to deal
with, but not at that store any more. He's manager at another store.

Mary