Need Help With Installing HP 950 PSC AllInOne

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How about a competitor of HP getting a copy of the driver to reverse
engineer it? Or a maker of non-HP consumables getting a copy of it to
defeat some mechanisms that are used to prevent refilling or non-HP inks
and toners. Or an attorney wanting an analysis of the code for use in a
legal case (possibly against HP).
Click to expand...

Why these crazy thoughts? Surely we can agree they would
just download it from HP's website long before now and some
"ideal" about whether they were technically allowed to use
it would not deter from downloading.

There are LOTS of reasons why people might want the driver other than to
use it with a printer.

But that's not the point. The owner of a piece of code has an absolute
right to control how it is distributed and to whom. The are allowed to
exercise that control illogically and without good reason if they so
choose. It's their software, period.
Click to expand...


Actually no, they have a support requirement to their
customers who can demand they relinquish enough control to
have the product paid for - until such point as a court
would deem the demand unreasonable.
 
It would be nice to know the full legal ramifications. I do see a lot
of "driver" websites, some require registration, some are free and some
try to charge fees. Same with user manuals and service manuals. I
haven't yet seen any attempt to shut down these websites, but that may
be more about small change than about legalities and rights.
Click to expand...

Either your intentions are not good or you are not thinking
of the end results. Clearly there is not a right to
redistribute but it is better that it happens anyway.

It would be better to not be so "thorough" about it, to just
entirely forget your line of thinking and leave things
alone. Being anal about it will, IF any effect, be
negative for everyone because if someone is pressed and
nagged about enforcing their rights it will tend to cause
more enforcement or same, not less. It would harm the
customers yet not benefit the (driver) owner. It would give
the customer negative feelings about the owner to have no
way at all to use a product.
 
measekite said:
It is a shame that the high OEM prices force usrers to endure a
refilling mess, lower quality, faster fading and the potential for a
ruined printer.
Click to expand...


How would you know?
Frank
 
Well, at least two people in this group that have more knowledge about the
details have already disagreed with you.
Click to expand...

Be careful using the word "knowledge".

A) This is usenet
B) Embellishment and Imagination are common
C) Contact with a company adds further heresay factors, it
is what their formal policy dictates that you will hear from
them.

HP really has no reason to want to
do this on thier own, it is in thier best interests to have folks continue
to use thier printers.
Click to expand...

On the surface this seems true, and as hardware enthusiasts
we want this to be the case, but historically the companies
who eventually drop support for old products on old OS are
not limited to only HP. Further, what is good or bad for HP
as a whole, does not necessarily have a direct impact on the
person who had the authority and made the decision. This is
not to imply it was solely HP's decision based on some
internal policy change, but we don't have enough information
to make any conclusion. Thus far we don't have any
indication there was any external requirement to pull the
drivers, such as identification of anything in their drivers
which would time-limit distribution. Without any evidence
of it, even a statement from HP is not backed by any proof.


They they still provide Win 3.1 and Win 95 drivers
for many printers. There are issues here that you do not understand and
they appear to be beyond HP's direct control.
Click to expand...

Actually we don't have sufficient evidence to conclude
anything is out of their control. It is extremely unlikely
they would enter into any agreement which limited their
rights to distribute code they own and also unlikely they
would bundle their code with 3rd party code such that it
effectively resulted in same limitation of losing control of
distribution rights. This is a fairly obvious factor to
anyone distributing software, a company the size of HP would
not just "overlook" this when there would be plenty of
alternatives.

Well, maybe it is not that big a deal after all? I asked for examples from
folks who needed a driver and have not had any responses.
Click to expand...

I don't think people who need the driver will be coming to a
usenet group continually so when you happen to ask, they'd
be ready to post "me too". Obviously anyone who is using
one of their discontinued products on Win98/95 is a
potential candidate. Many people do not maintain software
or original driver CDs (or remember where they put them
after several years) even though it is highly advised.
I suppose that
most folks installing a printer in Win 98 have probably done it years ago,
or perhaps they are just using the built in drivers.
Click to expand...

Envisioning a mere one scenario (Or lack thereof) does not
encompass all possible needs now or in the future. Except
for some very old HP laser printers, anything software
driven will not work with built in drivers.

I do wish the drivers were still available somewhere as I keep a Windows 98
virtual machine around to load drivers to test for folks with issues. I
would suspect they will turn up somewhere if there is demand. On the other
hand, Win 98 has a declining installed base....
Click to expand...


IMO, it is always best to download the latest driver when
first installing a product and permanently archive that.
 
Well, that's not totally true. Remember the business model printers are
sold under. There isn't a lot of profit in the printer hardware sales,
money is made from the cartridge/ink sales.
Click to expand...


You're only thinking of the low-end printers, many of which
would likely be broken or abandoned by now.

Therefore, the best
scenario would be for everyone to buy one printer and be "forced" to buy
refill cartridges or ink from the OEM, with the printer lasting as long
as possible as current.
Click to expand...

No, see above. The best scenario is to have products that
cover all market segments, all price points even if that
means many of the low-end have high, partially obscured
operating costs due to impulse buyers not fully researching
what the total cost of ownership will be over time, or
simply not being able to afford paying several hundred
dollars per peripheral at once.


The only reasons printer companies introduce newer printers is to avoid
losing the client to the other brand (of inks) by keeping their product
fresh, new and innovative, and to upgrade "ink security" hardware, to
make it as hard as possible for earlier owners to refill or find
alternative consumables.
Click to expand...

Maybe these are reasons, maybe, but certainly not the only
ones. The general idea of staying competitive is bound to
be one of the largest influences.
 
measekite wrote: his usual non-OEM nonsense that he spouts without having
any experience with any ink product other than OEM inks in his four year
old ip4000 printer

How would you know?
Frank
Click to expand...

Obviously, Frank, he doesn't know!

To "endure a mess" includes two false Measekite concepts - that one endures
(read suffers) refilling, and that refilling is a mess. After the first
few attempts at refilling, and with some self-education from the vendors'
web sites and a site such as the Nifty Stuff Forum, one learns how to refill
neatly.

Next false statement: Inferior results? I don't have to be satisfied with
inferior results - a side-by-side comparison of prints made with MIS inks
and with Canon OEM inks in my i960 and ip5000 printers results in prints
that are really difficult (read impossibly) to tell apart. Similar results
are reported with Formulabs and Hobbicolor inks.

Next false statement: Damage to printers? My i960 is four years old.
After really heavy use I replaced the printhead last year and it is still
going strong. The money I've saved with refilling could have paid for two
dozen printers or printheads as compared to the cost of using OEM inks. The
ip5000 (one picoliter nozzles) loves the aftermarket ink I feed it. This
printer is a year and a half old and works just fine. Neither printer has
ever needed me to run a cleaning cycle. Of course, they automatically run
cleaning cycles when changing carts and on a time-and-use basis.

A partial Measekite truth: fading. In accelerated fade tests done by
participants of the Nifty-Stuff forum it was demonstrated that after
prolonged exposure to UV light some of the non-OEM ink colors fade more than
Canon OEM inks. Unfortunately, Wilhelm didn't test the inks we use, nor did
Consumers or PC Magazine. Although accelerated fade tests do show increased
fading at some point, the pictures I have framed and on display, as well as
pictures in albums, have exhibited no apparent fading in approximately four
years. Measekite makes the same claim for prints that have been laying on
his desk. We have endured (read suffered) this claim for nearly four years.
I must assume that the very same prints have been gathering dust on his desk
for that period of time, which begs the question, why don't you ever clean
your damned desk? Don't you have more important things that should occupy
the surface of your desk? Like work? I'm afraid that the "no fading of
prints laying on the desk" claim has no more credibiliy than the rest of his
nonsense. Another product of a twisted imagination.

One out of four Measekite statements is true, but is significant only with
prolonged UV exposure (and probably ozone as well). In medical research
projects, statistical analysis may demonstrate that a result is
statistically significant but not clinically significant. For many of us,
the fading issue is not significant for the prints we are producing. In any
classroom, getting one correct answer out of four earns a failing grade. Put
Measekite in the corner and put a pointy cap on his pointy head!
 
The therad is interesting, but really has no impact on my operations.
Reason? Last HP printer still in service will be replace with a non HP
printer when it fails or ink gets too expensive.

HP consumer and light duty business printers have been cost reduced to the
point that there is no real advantage in buying them.
(My opinion) Cannon printers that I've owned (S600,S750) seem to be good
reliable printers. Older Cannons 240 etc. drove me to epson printers, just
as Epson models drove me to Cannon at one point.

The bit with the chipped ink tanks really causes me to say that the next
time around, printers with that type of "feature" will not be considered.

measlekite isn't old enough to have had the measles.
 
Chuck said:
The bit with the chipped ink tanks really causes me to say that the next
time around, printers with that type of "feature" will not be considered.
Click to expand...

Here's one for you: all the cell phone companies sell/use Blackberry,
but Verizon takes it one further: the battery on THEIR Blackberry is
chipped.

That's right. You can't hit Ebay and buy a $5 Chinese battery for a
Verizon BlackBerry. You have to buy it from Verizon, complete with chip.

The DCMA has led to these kinds of abuses. "Hey, if I chip it, they
can't sell a clone without violating the DCMA." Screw them. I'm with
you. Will not be considered for future purchases.
 
Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

The bit with the chipped ink tanks really causes me to say that the next time around, printers with that type of "feature" will not be considered.



Here's one for you: all the cell phone companies sell/use Blackberry, but Verizon takes it one further: the battery on THEIR Blackberry is chipped. That's right. You can't hit Ebay and buy a $5 Chinese battery for a Verizon BlackBerry.

Do they also put antifreeze in the battery so it will explode?


You have to buy it from Verizon, complete with chip. The DCMA has led to these kinds of abuses. "Hey, if I chip it, they can't sell a clone without violating the DCMA." Screw them. I'm with you. Will not be considered for future purchases.
 
Bought two new HP and a Compaq Presario laptops in the past two months,
both had cd failure due to drivers (TSST Corp TS-L632M) inability to load.
No one seems to give shit or has any answers. Have tried updating,
requesting new drivers from MS and HP, reloaded the IDE Controllers. I
returned one of them still have a V6000 new Compaq with a useless CD and no
way to up load new programs.

Dale Peterson
 
No drivers are required for optical (CD or DVD) drives (of any type).
You misunderstand the nature of what is going on, or it's cause.
 
Barry Watzman said:
No drivers are required for optical (CD or DVD) drives (of any type). You
misunderstand the nature of what is going on, or it's cause.
Click to expand...

If that's the case the device mgr should probably quite telling me that the
driver is corrupt and you would think that with all the correspondence I 've
sent to HP and MS that they would tell me that. I'm deaf so I can't carry on
a conversation on the phone with them. I do and would appreciate any
corrective advice.
Thank You
dale P.............
 
When I said that no drivers are required, I meant no special, device
specific drivers. The normal drivers for your IDE port ... the same
port that may have your hard drive on it ... also handles optical IDE
drives [or SATA, if that is the type of interface in use]. And the IDE
port drivers are a standard, built-in part of Windows. Nothing you need
to download special, and nothing specific (unless you are using some
type of non-standard IDE port, such as an add-in PCI card).
 
Yeap, I was aware of each of these, actually, and the question was a bit
of a devil's advocacy.

Of course, the real question is what the actual response to such a
situation is in the real world. There are hundreds of websites offering
service manual, drivers, and other services that involve copyrighted
materials and I see very little response by the larger owners of these
items.

Art
 
Dale_Peterson said:
If that's the case the device mgr should probably quite telling me that
the driver is corrupt and you would think that with all the
correspondence I 've sent to HP and MS that they would tell me that. I'm
deaf so I can't carry on a conversation on the phone with them. I do
and would appreciate any corrective advice.
Thank You
dale P.............
Click to expand...

If I go to Device Manager on my computer, and display the hardware, I can see
my GCR-8523B. If I go to the properties and use the Drivers tab and Driver
Details, it shows:

C:\WINNT\system32\DRIVERS\cdrom.sys
C:\WINNT\system32\DRIVERS\redbook.sys
C:\WINNT\system32\storprop.dll

My OS is Win2K, and these drivers came with the OS. They are not a separate
driver.

Another solution that comes up occasionally, has to do with Upperfilters/Lowerfilters
and the use of third party software like InCD. Don't take this as a verbatim
fix, but instead, investigate whether your symptoms are consistent or not.
Sometimes, the installation of CD/DVD burning software, can upset the
operation of an optical drive. I've even had a piece of software that
makes a "virtual CD" (i.e. mounts an ISO and makes it look like it is
a CD), foul up the operation of a burner. It took me a while to figure
it out, because the symptoms looked a lot like the burner had a
hardware failure.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314060/EN-US/

An alternative, might be to use an optical drive in an external enclosure.
With modern burning software, you can even set up a DVD burner in an
external USB enclosure. So that can be used as a workaround until you get
a real fix for the problem with the internal drive.

At least part of the problem could be terminology. The first part of solving
a problem, is using language common to both parties. For example, if the
Device Manager was complaining, it might say "Code 10" or something similar.
Recording exact error messages is very important, because you can use the
exact text in a Google or Altavista.com search. Also, even if the resulting
web pages don't answer your question, you'll learn what terminology people use
to describe the problem, making it easier to explain the problem later to
others.

Paul
 
kony said:
You're only thinking of the low-end printers, many of which
would likely be broken or abandoned by now.
Click to expand...

You're correct that the ink versus printer price are relative inversely.
The higher priced printers typically use less costly inks per output,
or they provide special features. Other peripherals have different
marketing strategies created for them.
No, see above. The best scenario is to have products that
cover all market segments, all price points even if that
means many of the low-end have high, partially obscured
operating costs due to impulse buyers not fully researching
what the total cost of ownership will be over time, or
simply not being able to afford paying several hundred
dollars per peripheral at once.
Click to expand...

No business wants to have a market niche taken away or do they typically
wish to ignore a potential market niche to exploit. But that is mainly
because another company might take over that influence, or gain profits
which may give them the opportunity to use those profits to price
manipulate other sectors.
 
Barry Watzman said:
When I said that no drivers are required, I meant no special, device
specific drivers. The normal drivers for your IDE port ... the same port
that may have your hard drive on it ... also handles optical IDE drives
[or SATA, if that is the type of interface in use]. And the IDE port
drivers are a standard, built-in part of Windows. Nothing you need to
download special, and nothing specific (unless you are using some type of
non-standard IDE port, such as an add-in PCI card).
Click to expand...

I know you're trying to help me and I appreciate it. The CD came installed
in both of my laptops, and failed about 5 to 8 days later.
Thanks again
Dale P.............
 
Paul said:
If I go to Device Manager on my computer, and display the hardware, I can
see
my GCR-8523B. If I go to the properties and use the Drivers tab and Driver
Details, it shows:

C:\WINNT\system32\DRIVERS\cdrom.sys
C:\WINNT\system32\DRIVERS\redbook.sys
C:\WINNT\system32\storprop.dll

My OS is Win2K, and these drivers came with the OS. They are not a
separate
driver.

Another solution that comes up occasionally, has to do with
Upperfilters/Lowerfilters
and the use of third party software like InCD. Don't take this as a
verbatim
fix, but instead, investigate whether your symptoms are consistent or not.
Sometimes, the installation of CD/DVD burning software, can upset the
operation of an optical drive. I've even had a piece of software that
makes a "virtual CD" (i.e. mounts an ISO and makes it look like it is
a CD), foul up the operation of a burner. It took me a while to figure
it out, because the symptoms looked a lot like the burner had a
hardware failure.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314060/EN-US/

An alternative, might be to use an optical drive in an external enclosure.
With modern burning software, you can even set up a DVD burner in an
external USB enclosure. So that can be used as a workaround until you get
a real fix for the problem with the internal drive.

At least part of the problem could be terminology. The first part of
solving
a problem, is using language common to both parties. For example, if the
Device Manager was complaining, it might say "Code 10" or something
similar.
Recording exact error messages is very important, because you can use the
exact text in a Google or Altavista.com search. Also, even if the
resulting
web pages don't answer your question, you'll learn what terminology people
use
to describe the problem, making it easier to explain the problem later to
others.

Paul
Click to expand...

Thank you Paul, the terminality thing is very important
Dale P................
 
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