H
Hecate
And you're so concerned to support him you're suing aliases to try and
pretend that he has more supporters than he really does.
pretend that he has more supporters than he really does.
D
Don
Then why don't you (plural) state this fact clearly when recommending
VueScan to unsuspecting victims, instead of trying to suppress this
essential fact by attacking those who expose it?
Don't blame the messenger. Blame the one who can't fix the bug.
Not the people just joining in! And it is they who need a balanced
view most of all. (Witness messages of type "If I knew that, I would
*not* have bought VueScan").
As I keep repeating, any ostriches who would rather not face these
objective facts can always use a filter...
Don.
R
Ralf R. Radermacher
Don said:
You are aware that only a small fraction of prospective Vuescan buyers
read this newsgroup, aren't you? What are you going to do about the
rest?
Yes, your fight is just beginning. How about full-page ads in national
newspapers? Prime-time TV ads? Mass mailings?
Now that the presidential elections are over, you might want to get
Ralph Nader involved in what clearly is one of the most important
threats mankind will be facing over the next decade.
Guess you'll have to quit your daytime job, if ever you had one...
Ralf
D
Dierk Haasis
So, ever heard of archives or FAQs?
As I repeatedly stated it is not that me (or many others) don't
appreciate input about problems. But simply saying "the programmer is
incapable of his job" isn't very helpful.
What's you agenda? Helping people (including Mr Hamrick) or just
fighting with the developer of VS?
A
Anoni Moose
Hecate said:
I do. However, you're the one who equated the companies.
Hmmmmm I think I need to read the warrantee statement on hamrick.com
again. Must have changed.
To rip me off he'd have to stop giving me a demo version that I can
try ahead of time before paying him money (and then have it not
work after I paid). AFAIK he hasn't done that to me or anyone else
has he done that to you?
Of course, I tried the demo on my scanner a long time ago, and
with it working to my satisfaction, I purchased it and used it.
I was not promised (upon purchase) that it'll work to my satisfaction
with all scanners I later purchase in the future. Did he give
you such a warrantee?
Rip me off, and you'll have h*** to pay. But I can't see how Vuescan
can possibly rip anyone off seeing as how it's sold on a you-try-first
basis. If you try, don't like it, and still buy -- it's self-inflicted
rip-off and one should give one's self h***.
Mike
H
Hecate
The warranty is immaterial. It doesn't change what I said.
You said "A Minolta 5400 owner who knows not to piss off people I want
something from". You didn't say A Minolta 5400 owner who knows not to
piss off Ed if 1 want something from him.
So, quite naturally, I assumed you had the same cavalier attitude to
all your suppliers.
D
Don
Absolutely nothing!
The above statement clearly shows that you have totally misunderstood
both me and the purpose of this group.
Don.
D
Don
How come fawning VueScan devotees never suggest that? Could it be
because that would expose things they would rather hide?
If someone asks a question here they either did not consult the
archives or FAQs, or found them insufficient.
Either way, having asked a question here they are entitled to a
balanced view i.e., to hear both sides and not just uncritical,
devotional messages.
If you followed closely you would have observed that this *objective*
conclusion was not arrived at overnight or lightly. I have given "the
programmer" more than enough of the benefit of the doubt (read the
above mentioned archives, but really *read* them!).
However, when his glaringly contradictory statements (which I have
quoted back to him repeatedly, leaving him stumped) turn into
obscenities and infantile petulance then, yes, that's a sure sign of
frustration at being unable to cope with the task.
Which brings us back to the key fact you, like other hardcore VueScan
devotees, conveniently try to ignore but can't escape from:
Do not blame the messenger if the VueScan's author is incapable of
fixing a problem after a *year* of trying! And that's only one bug!
If you read the messages objectively you would have seen there is no
agenda. I have benefited from this group greatly and I'm just giving
back.
Indeed, even after all the abuse from the author I still point people
to the VueScan site if appropriate. Can't get more objective than
that!
Don.
A
Anoni Moose
Hecate said:
That's correct, I try not to piss-off any supplier who I'm trying to
get to do something for me. It's not the number one way to persuade people.
I'll explain why I'm unhappy and how they are the one to help me, but I want
them to see the logic of helping me and how it's a good thing for
them to help me, not pissing them off. Using the strategy where their
benefit is getting me to stop pissing them off is something I discovered
to stop working when I was maybe 5 or 6 years old.
Mike
R
Ralf R. Radermacher
Don said:
Well then. Next try: You are on a crusade to show us all that (a)
Vuescan is the rip-off of the century and (b) you are the knight in
shining armour who's come to the rescue of all unsuspecting newbies. The
purpose of this group is to serve as your platform for this endeavour,
at least until everybody here agrees that you're right.
Closer now?
Ralf
H
Hecate
On the contrary, to the supplier, you are a customer. As a customer I
expect the company (supplier) to do what I require in a timely manner
or I'll find another company who will. And that company will then get
all my business in the field for which it is supplying. Expecting the
customer to wait for a year or more to get a requirement is a sure way
to piss off the customer and to lose customers. That's business
sense.
F
false_dmitrii
Regarding the ongoing Vuescan argument...can we please tone down the
personal comments a bit? This is usually one of the nicest usenet
spots to visit.
The VS detractors have valid points, and the
software itself can't be all bad or there wouldn't be anyone defending
it. If you haven't spent money on VS, does it really hurt you if you
disagree with EH's approach to customer service? I'd think that
most people willing to spend the money on VS *are* do-it-yourself
types who are savvy enough to deal with significant bugs or version
rollbacks, or to fire off their own nasty letters if they feel
neglected. And as has been noted, there's not a whole lot of
competition out there. Bugs and design decisions aside, VS might
still be the best option for some.
I just never had the sense that EH was out-and-out scamming people, or
spamming the NG, or (despite the ongoing back-and-forth sniping) going
out of his way to attack others during the year and a half I've been
here. I've seen far, far worse from SW developers online...not sure
it's necessary to come down so hard on his personal behavior or call
his product utterly useless. I think it's great that some of you are
willing to point out the VS deficiencies for others' benefit...can't
we leave it at that?
I know we're all free to post, so I won't say anything more on the
subject whichever way things turn out. I invite all of you to move a
few threads down and help me pick my scanner instead.
false_dmitrii
(As long as we're talking about buggy, undersupported, slow-to-update
software, what's the current state of Minolta's own scanner utility?
I might need to know. )
personal comments a bit? This is usually one of the nicest usenet
spots to visit.
The VS detractors have valid points, and thesoftware itself can't be all bad or there wouldn't be anyone defending
it. If you haven't spent money on VS, does it really hurt you if you
disagree with EH's approach to customer service?
I'd think thatmost people willing to spend the money on VS *are* do-it-yourself
types who are savvy enough to deal with significant bugs or version
rollbacks, or to fire off their own nasty letters if they feel
neglected. And as has been noted, there's not a whole lot of
competition out there. Bugs and design decisions aside, VS might
still be the best option for some.
I just never had the sense that EH was out-and-out scamming people, or
spamming the NG, or (despite the ongoing back-and-forth sniping) going
out of his way to attack others during the year and a half I've been
here. I've seen far, far worse from SW developers online...not sure
it's necessary to come down so hard on his personal behavior or call
his product utterly useless. I think it's great that some of you are
willing to point out the VS deficiencies for others' benefit...can't
we leave it at that?
I know we're all free to post, so I won't say anything more on the
subject whichever way things turn out. I invite all of you to move a
few threads down and help me pick my scanner instead.
false_dmitrii
(As long as we're talking about buggy, undersupported, slow-to-update
software, what's the current state of Minolta's own scanner utility?
I might need to know.
)
D
Don
If I were even a tad as biased as you fantasize, would I say this:
---
---
Back to this thread... Clearly you never really read my reply but
(alas, predictably) just gushed with emotion. :-(
Here, again, is the key part you missed when the red fog descended:
I'll refrain from any further comments in the genuine hope that you
can, calmly, recognize how contradictory your excitedly expressed
feelings are to that (and many other) unambiguously stated fact(s).
Don.
A
Alan Browne
Don said:
The purpose of the group is discuss things, learn things and to help others.
All you and your buddy Hecate do is attack incessently. You've chased away a
contributor to the group, who is trying to please as many as he can. Now, due
to your non stop rantings, he has left.
So where does that leave us?
-A useful resource is gone.
-Two useless dweebs, you and Hecate, remain.
So the group is poorer, not richer. I hope your egos got a charge out of this
situtation, but those of us with an interest in seeing ongoing support from Ed
are a bit worried at that and highly irritated, to put it mildly, at you.
Alan Browne.
A
Alan Browne
Jack said:
He couldn't code, much less understand what is required.
A
Alan Browne
You don't need to hound someone to death either. You point out problems,
discuss them civilly and, gosh, even help. By being the sideline equivalent of
a poorly behaved hockey parent, Don and Hecate are not helping anyone. They're
just being loudmouthed jerks for the tiny pleasure that that appears to give them.
H
Hecate
That's right. Not to be an uncritical choir group for Ed Hamrick.
No, all we do is point out, when people ask, the failings of the
product. He hasn't left because of us, he's left because he had the
emotional response to criticism of a five year old.
A useful resource is one which actually provides something useful, not
just whine because not everyone agrees he and his product is
wonderful.
I do love your attempt at intelligent debate, right up there with the
aforesaid five year old.
Actually, a lot of people will be richer for not buying something
which doesn't work with their scanner.
K
Kennedy McEwen
That is utter rot Alan - and I suspect that you know it is too!Alan Browne said:
None of the support facilities that previously existed for Vuescan have
been lost or even threatened in any way.
This is not, and never has been, a support group for Vuescan! Ed has
stated this himself on several occasions - at least once in response to
a flood of enquiries about Vuescan here which caused others to complain
that group appeared to be being taken over.
If you want support for Vuescan, read the product web site and help
file, which gives adequate instructions on how to report bugs and obtain
support - comp.periphs.scanners, along with Wayne's site, is included as
a general scanning reference, not a Vuescan specific one! That should
be pretty obvious from the newsgroup title.
Now, ask yourself, if Ed doesn't regard this as a support forum himself,
and openly stated that he rarely reads this group in any case, what
purpose did he serve by publicly stating that he is leaving the group?
Wouldn't a "normal" occasional contributor just "fade away" without the
need for comment?
Whilst I think Don and a few others have been over-critical of Vuescan,
and I have said as much on several occasions here so that shouldn't come
as any surprise to anyone, their criticism of his recent egotistical
temper tantrum is, IMO, fully justified.
If you don't like what certain contributors regularly say then remember
that your solution lies only a few mouse clicks away in an option called
something like "add to kill file".
D
Don
I can't top what Hecate and Kennedy have said. They've answered all
your emotional "points" quite extensively.
I would only add that if the rabid (not the regular!) members of the
VueScan order would respond with *facts* - rather than personal
attacks - we would not have these eruptions.
The other (frequently suggested) alternative for them is simply to
ignore messages where numerous VueScan bugs are enumerated. However,
they seem to have a big chip on their shoulder as this neverending
flood of VueScan bugs seems to touch a raw nerve and they just can't
help themselves.
So, in the absence of any factual or rational response all they (think
they) can do is follow the example of the Great Leader and mimic his
infantile tantrums, exploding with misdirected anger, which -
ironically - only confirms everything we say.
Don.
your emotional "points" quite extensively.
I would only add that if the rabid (not the regular!) members of the
VueScan order would respond with *facts* - rather than personal
attacks - we would not have these eruptions.
The other (frequently suggested) alternative for them is simply to
ignore messages where numerous VueScan bugs are enumerated. However,
they seem to have a big chip on their shoulder as this neverending
flood of VueScan bugs seems to touch a raw nerve and they just can't
help themselves.
So, in the absence of any factual or rational response all they (think
they) can do is follow the example of the Great Leader and mimic his
infantile tantrums, exploding with misdirected anger, which -
ironically - only confirms everything we say.
Don.
C
celebrate
This group is better off with the departure of Ed. The responses from
you, Hecate and Kennedy are all right on. We need netizens like you to
cleanse a group from time to time. With everyone standing by, many a
group have been destroyed by spammers, bashers, cheer leaders, and prima
donnas.
you, Hecate and Kennedy are all right on. We need netizens like you to
cleanse a group from time to time. With everyone standing by, many a
group have been destroyed by spammers, bashers, cheer leaders, and prima
donnas.