Minolta SE5400: is this level of streaking normal?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Juha Koivisto
  • Start date Start date
I think Don is quite right here. Ed's outburst was outrageous. If I
was one of the quiet 5400 users waiting for a fix for a scanner than
Vuescan is meant to support I would be angry now.
Click to expand...

I think they *are* very angry but are misdirecting this anger by
shooting the messenger (as clearly demonstrated above) instead of
taking the author to task (as any rational person would do).

There may also be a case of "buyer's remorse". They bought a lemon and
don't like being reminded of it. That explains both their extreme
touchiness and their irrational overreaction to objective facts.
Rather than fixing bugs we now have Vuescan for blondes (8.1 complete
with permanent "stupid" button). No wonder existing users are less than
impressed.
Click to expand...

That seems to be the pattern. Instead concentrating on fixing
essential bugs (apparently because he just can't) he goes off on
fanciful cosmetic changes. Fiddling while Rome burns, indeed. And then
when the pressure gets too high he has a meltdown. None of which are
attributes even a mediocre programmer should have.

Don.
 
Yes, I would have preferred that mr.Hamrick would have tried harder to
fix the issues; I filed a certain number of bug reports, provided log
files, offered help and testing, but he did not followed that much. ....
Oh, and he's not always nice in his replies as well.
Click to expand...

There you go! He's long on talk (like the PR campaign on future of
VueScan) but short on action (ignored all the suggestions, as I
expected).

And thank you for being candid and on the level! Many VueScan "fans"
would rather hide their frustration, misdirecting it instead at
innocent bystanders.
If we go down that hard on him, what should we do to Bill Gates,
then?!? ;-)
Click to expand...

Ooohhh.... Don't get me started... ;o)

Not that the law firm called "Apple" and his Holiness Steve the 2nd
are any better... ;o)

Don.
 
You should tell that to Mr. Ed! Sorry, couldn't resists... ;o)

He's the one hurling obscenities and having temper tantrums. I have
never responded in kind, preferring to keep things civil.

Unfortunately, there is a small minority of his "devotees" who ape his
behavior and do get personal. And just like in his case, those
outbursts are because they have no facts so the only thing left to
them (as they see it) is to throw a fit.

Don.
 
There seems to be a severe lack of understanding of why problems with
the Minolta scanners are difficult to fix.

Generally Ed reverse engineers the scanner software (unless he's lucky
enough to be supplied with documentation by the manufacturer or someone
else has done the work). This involves looking at the communications
with the scanner and trying to work out what they do. No SDK, just a lot
of effort.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, buy there's a big contradiction in that. You can't at the
same time chose to bypass the officially sanctioned programming model
and then claim that decision as an excuse for being inadequate!?

Nobody forced him to bypass the SDK. It was his choice not to use
TWAIN but talk to scanners directly. But having made this choice
voluntarily, he can't then turn around and use that as an excuse for
his incompetence. It's a case of biting off more than he can chew.

A reputable and honest programmer would admit defeat and take the
scanner off the supported list. Indeed, it should never have been put
on the list in the first place!!!

That's what a decent person would do. His response, however, is to
hurl obscenities and throw temper tantrums.

Don.
 
* Don said:
Nobody forced him to bypass the SDK. It was his choice not to use
TWAIN but talk to scanners directly. But having made this choice
voluntarily, he can't then turn around and use that as an excuse for
his incompetence. It's a case of biting off more than he can chew.
Click to expand...

On exactly how many platforms does TWAIN work?
To continue in the same vein, having choice, would you obtain images via
TWAIN or native scanning utility?
 
I think Don is quite right here. Ed's outburst was outrageous. If I
was one of the quiet 5400 users waiting for a fix for a scanner than
Vuescan is meant to support I would be angry now.
Click to expand...

Anybody interested in facts?

When Mr Hamrick some months ago encountered (through reports here)
some problems between VS and the 5400 he tried to fix them. He then
mentioned that it was more difficult than he thought. For economical
reasons, I guess, he stated that he may decide to not support the
Minolta 5400 any further.

As someone else mentioned - and Mr Hamrick's web site states
explicitly - you can and should try out VS with your scanner.
Happening upon problems? Ask for solutions; if there are any, good. If
not, don't buy.

Yes, I do use VS with my 5400 (didn't originally buy it for this
scanner), and haven't had any serious quality problem between the two,
yet. And I did scan some rather difficult transparencies. It would be
nice to be sure I never encounter any problems, that's the reason I
hope Mr Hamrick will solve them in the (near) future.

My experience, on line and in real life, with bashing suggest that it
is never a good idea to insult someone I want something from. Those
not interested in VS could as easily be quiet: Just don't buy VS, and
don't read VS messages ...
 
That's what a decent person would do.
Click to expand...

A decent person like you, I guess. Any decent person wanting to know
if his scanner works with VS would just try it out. finding a problem
he would - politely - ask for a solution; if none is provided he
doesn't buy VS, and goes of to find another program for his needs.

Do you use VS? With the Minolta 5400? Did you buy VS to use it with
the 5400?

Until now I haven't seen anything helpful or sensible from you, just
insults. In the best of cases you grab up anything someone writes and
make it your starting point for squabbling about like ... like ...
like the child you implicitly called Mr Hamrick.

At least you are decent ...aren't you?
 
He's the one hurling obscenities and having temper tantrums. I have
never responded in kind, preferring to keep things civil.
Click to expand...

From what I see you never responded kind(ly). But, lets not argue
about semantics. I grant you that your insults are a little subtler
than usual in Usenet (see above, your implicit insult against Mr
Hamrick as a naughty child).
 
I'm sorry, buy there's a big contradiction in that. You can't at the
same time chose to bypass the officially sanctioned programming model
and then claim that decision as an excuse for being inadequate!?
Click to expand...

You were claiming that he couldn't use the SDK correctly not that he
should be using TWAIN. That is YOUR error. Get used to it.
Nobody forced him to bypass the SDK. It was his choice not to use
TWAIN but talk to scanners directly. But having made this choice
voluntarily, he can't then turn around and use that as an excuse for
his incompetence. It's a case of biting off more than he can chew.
Click to expand...

If you use TWAIN you are restricted to the quality the device driver
gives you. Using it would seem to negate the reason for Vuescan in the
first place.
 
I think they *are* very angry but are misdirecting this anger by
shooting the messenger (as clearly demonstrated above) instead of
taking the author to task (as any rational person would do).

There may also be a case of "buyer's remorse". They bought a lemon and
don't like being reminded of it. That explains both their extreme
touchiness and their irrational overreaction to objective facts.
Click to expand...

Your arrogant assumptions add nothing to the debate.

Are you a vuescan customer? I don't think so. So get the hell out of the
way. You are just an irritating little man.
 
There seems to be a severe lack of understanding of why problems with
the Minolta scanners are difficult to fix.
Click to expand...

No, not at all. The problem is with how the situation has been dealt
with.
Generally Ed reverse engineers the scanner software (unless he's lucky
enough to be supplied with documentation by the manufacturer or someone
else has done the work). This involves looking at the communications
with the scanner and trying to work out what they do. No SDK, just a lot
of effort.
Click to expand...

Then he shouldn't claim to either support them or to say that he's
going to fix it "real soon now".
 
=46rom what I see you never responded kind(ly). But, lets not argue
about semantics. I grant you that your insults are a little subtler
than usual in Usenet (see above, your implicit insult against Mr
Hamrick as a naughty child).
Click to expand...

Considering his language I think I responded very kindly.

Besides, there was nothing unkind in simply pointing out that VueScan
has a particular bug (one among many) that has been around for a year.
It's a demonstrable and objective statement of fact. Are you denying
the VueScan streaking bug has been around for about a year?

Now, that undeniable fact seems to have touched a raw nerve and then,
yes, he did behave like a child including the petulant resignation
which - according to long term readers - is actually bogus and happens
at regular intervals. That *is* childish. And to call it childish is
not an insult but a fact.

Again, these are all objective facts and that's not how a reasonable
developer behaves.

Don.
 
On exactly how many platforms does TWAIN work?
Click to expand...

That is not the point. See below.
To continue in the same vein, having choice, would you obtain images via
TWAIN or native scanning utility?
Click to expand...

Again, you're missing the point.

Ken stated that the VueScan author should be given a lot of slack
because what he does is "difficult". The point is, however, he chose
the difficult route voluntarily (regardless of the underlying reasons)
and once he made that choice he can't then turn around and use it as
an excuse for his programming incompetence. He simply bit off more
than he can chew but refuses to admit it.

You see, nominally, there's absolutely nothing wrong with deciding to
access the scanner directly (and I'm not questioning that). What is
wrong is to continue to make false claims this works even though,
demonstrably, it does not.

Don.
 
Any decent person wanting to know
if his scanner works with VS would just try it out. finding a problem
he would - politely - ask for a solution
Click to expand...

Many Minolta users have and were ignored. When they went public the
response was "it's fixed" followed by a torrent of messages from users
clearly demonstrating it wasn't. And this has been going on for about
a year...

That attitude is neither polite nor decent.

Furthermore, witness numerous requests in the past (preview window,
individual RGB gain, etc). Initial response to such requests is always
"you don't need it" (which is fairly arrogant!) followed by protracted
discussions after which he is forced (kicking and screaming) to
reluctantly (pretend to) implement some of it.

That attitude is neither polite nor decent.
Do you use VS? With the Minolta 5400? Did you buy VS to use it with
the 5400?
Click to expand...

Nope! Now, what does that have to do with the subject at hand?

As a reminder, the subject is Ken's statement that VueScan's author
should be given a pass because what he tries to do is "difficult" (my
quotes).
Until now I haven't seen anything helpful or sensible from you, just
insults.
Click to expand...

That's odd... You see "insults" where there are none (they are
objective facts - are you denying the VueScan streaking bug with
Minolta has been around for a year?) and yet you're totally blind to
other messages.

May I suggest you look again but this time without bias and
prejudging?

Don.
 
You were claiming that he couldn't use the SDK correctly not that he
should be using TWAIN. That is YOUR error. Get used to it.
Click to expand...

I take it from this that you are not a programmer. The information in
the SDK is essential as a starting point when trying to look "under
the hood". But that's not the gist of your message I commented on.

You stated that because this is "difficult" the VueScan author should
be given a pass. That's not the way it works. And certainly not for
commercial software! Once he made the voluntary choice to bypass TWAIN
(for whatever reasons) he can't then turn around and use that very
choice as the excuse for his programming ineptness.
If you use TWAIN you are restricted to the quality the device driver
gives you. Using it would seem to negate the reason for Vuescan in the
first place.
Click to expand...

As I keep repeating, there is absolutely nothing wrong, per se, with
the intention to access the scanner directly. But then it has to work!

One can't choose this route voluntarily and then use that very
decision (which nobody forced them to make) as an excuse when they
can't make it work!

Don.
 
Dierk said:
Anybody interested in facts?

When Mr Hamrick some months ago encountered (through reports here)
some problems between VS and the 5400 he tried to fix them. He then
mentioned that it was more difficult than he thought. For economical
reasons, I guess, he stated that he may decide to not support the
Minolta 5400 any further.
Click to expand...

After admitting not being able to fix a known problem in his product, he
should apologize to the buyers and not insult those who brought the
problem to his attention.
As someone else mentioned - and Mr Hamrick's web site states
explicitly - you can and should try out VS with your scanner.
Happening upon problems? Ask for solutions; if there are any, good. If
not, don't buy.

Yes, I do use VS with my 5400 (didn't originally buy it for this
scanner), and haven't had any serious quality problem between the two,
yet. And I did scan some rather difficult transparencies. It would be
nice to be sure I never encounter any problems, that's the reason I
hope Mr Hamrick will solve them in the (near) future.

My experience, on line and in real life, with bashing suggest that it
is never a good idea to insult someone I want something from. Those
not interested in VS could as easily be quiet: Just don't buy VS, and
don't read VS messages ...
Click to expand...

My respect and gratitude go to those who were burned by VS for coming
forward to caution any potential customers. If everyone keeps quiet
about problems like you, this ng would have lost much of its value.
 
Anoni Moose said:
and anybody who bought
it for this scanner should have used the demo version first and not
bought vuescan if not happy.
Click to expand...

How about those who already own Vuescan, used it with another scanner,
and then buy a 5400 because it's explicitily listed as being supported
by Vuescan? Almost happened to me.

Ralf
 
Don said:
Actually, I can! Anybody and his dog could do better than drag a bug
around for a year...
Click to expand...

Then why don't you write one that's better?
In other words...
Put your money where your mouth is.
 
Don said:
I take it from this that you are not a programmer.
Click to expand...

Oh so your a programmer. I suppose that explains the arrogance. Hiding being
a fake e-mail address and using a news server that doesn't identify you
helps. Gutless.

I just write lots of programs, though I don't consider myself a programmer.
Its a bit limiting.
 
Supporters of Vuescan like yourself
Click to expand...

I'm not a Vuescan supporter,
Just a long-time user that is very satisfied with it for some aspects,
and quite dissatisfied for other ones. :-)
products for years. Even for products without Vuescan bugs, it probably
have taken you years to get over the learning curve.
Click to expand...

Well, I don't want to convince you about that, but I figured out how
to use Vuescan advanced functionalities in about 2 weeks.
Yes, the documentation is sometimes obscure (there are points not
fully clarified even after various discussions with mr.Hamrick), and
this is a pity; but I have to say, I was not very impressed by
Silverfast AI docs as well. And that is a much more expensive
software: so expensive, I cannot afford it for my scanners (I should
pay something like $1000, in euros, and this would not even include
any major upgrade) although I'm really impressed by its performances.

It would be nice to have other 3rd party scanning software to choose
from, but as for now, we have Vuescan (that also works under Linux, a
big plus for many of us), Silverfast SE (too much underpowered),
Silverfast AI (extremely powerful, but extremely expensive as well).
So you see why many of us are hoping for Vuescan improvements and
fixes, instead of blindly bashing it. Or maybe Lasersoft could slash
Silverfast AI price by 75%, who knows! :-)

In the end, I'd like to see explicit mention of specific scanner
models issues on Vuescan web page.
A potential customer is not supposed to follow Usenet newsgroups, to
find out if his scanner is properly supported. Besides, some issues
may not be noticeable with a quick test on the demo version
(expecially if one has no hints about the circumstances where those
issues come out), while popping out in actual real-world work.

Fernando
 
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