Irreconcilable Differences

  • Thread starter Thread starter Susan Bugher
  • Start date Start date
I actually cautioned her as not to go into details, as I really
_thought_ the regular readers here would prefer_ not_ to read a bunch
of tit for tat.
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You got the second part right. Pity you didn't advise her not to
contribute to this thread and to simply take her files to a site where
she could exercise complete control over.
 
Well, you sure had some concrete ideas of what Geena "should" do.
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So ? A number of suggestions were made. Genna ignored my suggestion.
That's fine by me.

She asked for _group approval to move the site_ and was called a
"drama queen" in return. How can she possibly just move in light of
this?
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She doesn't need approval to move her files elsewhere.

I think you and I can agree that collectively, ACF earned what it
deserves... not to have the time and talent of Susan slaving away for
it free.
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Susan is free to slave away if she likes. Susan is free to not slave
away if she likes. Her choice.
 
I'm sorry to have to break this news to you, but the Pricelessware site
was set up to accommodate the votes from the participants of this Usenet
group.
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Golly, that so ? As I was here before the Pricelessware site was even
considered try telling me something I don't know. The site has
primarily existed due to Genna's generosity.
Genna should be ashamed of herself for driving away the best thing that
ever happened to the Pricelessware
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Complete rubbish. Genna hasn't driven anyone away. Susan can put her
files on another site.

Duh !
site. Susan made the site useable in a way that hadn't been done before,
and to suggest that it should all be thrown away is despicable.
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So what ? She can do that wherever she chooses to move her files to.
Her choice. Move elsewhere or don't move elsewhere.

Instead of being a winger and a freeloader why not pay for a web site
and offer full access to Susan ?

We should all be thanking Genna for being good enough to donate here
site etc. for ACF readers.

Well done Genna ! :-)
 
I'm quoting you telling Susan, "I think it would be best for the PL if
you simply quit
doing all you have been." Looks like you telling her to quit to me.
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He can suggest anything he likes to her. She is free to avoid such
suggestions if she wishes.
I guess you were right, though. She may have been looking for someone to
give her "an out", which you provided by your blunt comment.
Exactly.

Is this the end of Pricelessware?
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Nope. It existed before she came along and it will exist afterwards.
 
Wow, you are a hypocrite in a grand sense.
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No hypocrisy here. Unless you care to explain where the hypocrisy
is then I suggest you check your dictionary. It might help you to
avoid using inappropriate words in future.
So, anyone who is "paying the bills" should be allowed to dictate an
operation,
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Anyone who is paying the bills for a web site has the say over what
happens on that web site. If people don't like that then they can get
their own site.
regardless of someone who actually makes things work.
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Which part of "She can run her own site any way she likes/liked" are
you having difficulty understanding ?

Is this a language problem ? Is English not your first language ?
Susan wanted support from the people who appreciated the work she had
done on the site and for the group.
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< snip >

Then why didn't she call this thread "Please feed my ego, I want
everyone who appreciates my hard work to say so and post here" ?

Then at least people wouldn't have needed to attack Genna.
 
On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 04:11:51 GMT, "R.L"

I think the bottomline is, if Pricelessware is *really* in
principle belong to everyone here, everyone should be welcomed
to participate and no one should have the right to "kick"
another person out of the game (moving the site is "kicking"
Genna out of the game, taking away the part that she wants to
contrubute - I honestly think that it is unfair, especially
she has been doing it since before Sue is involved).
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Nobody has kicked anyone anywhere. There is no point pursuing
such a silly notion.
I think if Sue still wants to be the webmaster,
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Nobody is stopping her doing that.

If either of them found that they are not happy about the
situation, they can either beg the other one to leave, work it
out, or sad to say, just leave.
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< snip >

Exactly. If Susan doesn't like Genna's site she can get one
elsewhere.
 
John said:
So ? A number of suggestions were made. Genna ignored my suggestion.
That's fine by me.



She doesn't need approval to move her files elsewhere.
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It sounds like you are using this thread to air your strong views on
individual property rights.

What you are saying is:
It is Genna's site because _she_ pays for it, so she can do whatever she
wants with it.
Susan can move "her" files where she wants bevause it is "her" files.

You are making a big thing out of the individual property rights here,
and you are not helping to solve the problem at all with your
participation.

Maybe you are an enemy of voluntary group cooperation, or something like
that, it is an ideological thing you are pursuing, and you have no
understanding at all of the real world situation.

You are the type of person who gladly walks over people to propagate
your ideas and defend your principles.

Somebody suggested that Susans files immediately should be deleted and
you should be given the task of creating a new PL web site.
That was the two most stupid ideas I have heard in a long time.
 
<news:[email protected]>:
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These threads have saddened me, and the conclusion they have led me to is
painful. I think it would be best for the PL if you simply quit doing all
you have been.
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All problems have a solution that which in the least is in the best
interests of the participants no matter how high the animosity.
The regulars, lurkers and fly-by-nighters all had a stake and say in this
also. (someone has to maintane the site)
Judging by Susan's response she already leaning to resign.
:(
 
On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 09:02:35 +0200, Roger Johansson wrote...
Somebody suggested that Susans files immediately should be deleted and
you should be given the task of creating a new PL web site.
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I've got a copy of her files in my cache if anyone wants them :-)
 
Paul said:
I've got a copy of her files in my cache if anyone wants them :-)
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In the past there has been very heated debates in acf between different
groups who have had their own agendas to push.

John Fitzsimons is one of the losers from the past who is trying to use
the current crisis to try to butt in again and push his agenda, and he
has no consideration at all for people and their feelings.

He and his supporters have made this situation worse than it had to be,
because they are so eager to take control of the PL web site and change
the policy of acf into what they want it to be.
 
This is my resignation.

The databases belong to the active participants in ACF. Whoever takes over
- please contact me.

Susan
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So... the other web site idea is shot? The majority favored having it if
you did it. It would change this, :( to this, :) for me and many other
people here.
I tried to avoid this thread thinking my vote would not count. Well, it
does count.
There are not many people with the energy that you have and that you have
shown. I know on the outside at least, that you, Susan Bugher, enjoyed
this project. We thank you.
I have said enough....
 
I did not tell Susan to quit, and I would not presume to do so. I gave my
opinion about what I thought would be best. I honestly did not expect her
to quit.
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Opinions do not count? This a.c.f. concept *is* based on opinions.
You know what? Some things are better left unsaid. You have said plenty.
 
[...]

"I think it would be best for the PL if you simply quit doing all you have
been."

I stand by that, and I am unsure about what you feel needs clarifying. It
was clearly my opinion; the first two words handle that. Throughout my
post, the word "you" had referred to Susan, not Susan and Genna; I don't
see ambiguity there. By "all" I did mean all involvement with the PL.

When Olaf mischaracterized my posting of my opinion as telling Susan what
to do, I responded; I won't quibble with you if you want to call it
advocacy or invitation. I think a great lot of people here disagree with
my opinion, and I think that any perception that my opinion does or could
or should trump theirs is unfounded.
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Hiding behind semantics doesn't get you off. We can read between the lines.
Given the benefit of the doubt, perhaps you pushed the freakin' button too
soon.
 
I did not tell Susan to quit, and I would not presume to do so. I gave
my opinion about what I thought would be best. I honestly did not expect
her to quit.
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Perhaps it was more an unkind cut than you intended.

Susan worked as a volunteer and considered the site of ACF, by ACF, and
for ACF. This is the reason it was addressed here.

She was relying specifically upon you and a few others to give a vote of
confidence based on her past efforts, without going into any specifics
about exactly what the problems were. She was let down, to say the least,
and said that she could not continue in disagreement, with those who come
here that she holds in high respect. I received the parting email this
morning.

This apparently was a mistake, in reading some of the opposing comments.
It seems a great many people have no idea of exactly how dedicated she was
in this position, or just how much work she accomplished. ie: the comment
to delete her work -> [the whole site] to extract vengence, without regard
to the fact her work _is_ the current site. Short of working knowledge or
appreciation for her efforts phrases like drama queen emerged from many.

Maybe I just followed her actions more closely than others. She scanned
the group many times daily, identifying anything on PL that needed
changing/updating and made the changes in almost real time. I'm surprised
that her work was taken in such a for granted fashion. She was pro-active
in keeping all information on the site correct and up to date daily.

As to the exacts, I know no more than has been said here. I can see how
she might get miffed if someone not active in ACF and who hasn't responded
to email in months came in and started messing with what she had
meticulously put together. She had group approval for everything she did.
I know there was a question as to whether the ACF CD was "commercialized"
and a page about a dishonest author (informally voted for) was called into
question. Second guessing, apparently with tones of physical control of
the site, did not go over very well. The out of the blue change, or
changes, was too much. All that she really wanted was a vote of confidence
from those she respected and a free hand to keep her work in top order,
answering _only_ to the group ACF. This was not possible with the current
deal, as Geena pays for it. This is why she wanted a group vote to move to
another host.


The question is, now... what is best for PL?

Is PL still an active ACF project?

Is anyone remotely interested in taking her place?

I nominate John Fitzsimons if there are no takers. You really must come to
understand that of which you gripe John. Let's delete the old site and let
John bring everything back up to speed for educational purposes.
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Totally agreed.
I started lurking here before Susan took it upon *herself* to do all the
wonderful things that she has done.
I am telling everyone now. She so out-shadowed whoever ran the sight
before that I don't not even recall who it was. Not to say the other(s)
were insignificant but that Susan is very good at what she does and did.
Period.
Do a good job John Fitzsimons! It was mighty nice of you to step up to
do this. All of the eyes of the Freeware World Order are watching and
counting upon you.
Good Luck!!
 
Damn, but you all make it hard to stay out of this thread.

I don't think it's productive for members of this group to snipe at each
other and take sides in this matter. Many of you will still be here long
after this matter is forgotten. There are only 2 people who know what
actually happened. If you want to blame anyone, blame the principals
involved.

Whoever said that Susan was only asking for a vote of confidence from this
group is absolutely correct. Based on her performance alone, she should have
been given it. My only objection has been to the false characterizations
that Susan has made about me and the manner in which she misrepresented the
issue to the newsgroup.

I still do not understand why it is that Susan could not simply verbalize
her objections and outline her needs with the current set-up. If she had,
this matter would have been settled a long time ago. Having said that, she
was certainly under no legal obligation to outline her reasons. If Susan had
moved and/or deleted the files, that would have been her choice.

As to why I let the current list up on the site, the reason is simply that
this is the result of the collective effort of all the members of this
group. While I may own the domain, I have never abused the privilege.

One final observation. The PL was never intended to be a replacement for
discussion in the newsgroup. The PL site was never intended to be the acf
site. It serves a very unique and specific purpose. That is why the FAQ was
never posted on the PL site. This is a newsgroup where all members have
equal status, not a bulletin board with admins and moderators. As such, the
maintainer of the PL does not hold a special role in this newsgroup and
certainly does not serve as point-person or spokesperson for the group. The
best thing about the PL in its inception was its collegial and collaborative
process. Whatever else happens from now on, I do hope that spirit can be
recaptured some day.
 
<snip>
|One final observation. The PL was never intended to be a replacement for
|discussion in the newsgroup. The PL site was never intended to be the acf
|site. It serves a very unique and specific purpose. That is why the FAQ was
|never posted on the PL site. This is a newsgroup where all members have
|equal status, not a bulletin board with admins and moderators. As such, the
|maintainer of the PL does not hold a special role in this newsgroup and
|certainly does not serve as point-person or spokesperson for the group.

Well said!
 
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