A
ato_zee
Not to mention the 10% to 30% for the initial charge after inserting a new
cartridge.
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Not to mention the 10% to 30% for the initial charge after inserting a new
cartridge.
Z
zakezuke
And people still go out and buy Epsons, either they are poor learners
Or rather look at the options, and make the choice to go Epson. The
are the only option for consumer a4 pigment printing one of which is
under $100. Users who print daily don't really have to clean their
heads so it's not an issue. Color prints are just fab. And they are
pretty ideal for CIS systems.
I would consider an Epson, just not a sub $100 one.
or don't care two hoots.
Or rather look at the options, and make the choice to go Epson. The
are the only option for consumer a4 pigment printing one of which is
under $100. Users who print daily don't really have to clean their
heads so it's not an issue. Color prints are just fab. And they are
pretty ideal for CIS systems.
I would consider an Epson, just not a sub $100 one.
F
Frank
There's nothing wrong with Epson printers.zakezuke said:Or rather look at the options, and make the choice to go Epson. The
are the only option for consumer a4 pigment printing one of which is
under $100. Users who print daily don't really have to clean their
heads so it's not an issue. Color prints are just fab. And they are
pretty ideal for CIS systems.
I would consider an Epson, just not a sub $100 one.
Occasionally everyone gets burnt by a cup of too hot coffee.
But that's not a reason to stop drinking coffee.
Frank
B
Bob Headrick
I'd be happy if Epson was forced to re-issue software that would give
an
honest picture of ink usage, along with a message when it was
absolutely
necessary to change the cartridge.
A nice dream, but the fact is that there is not any practical way to do
this. The printer does not have any way to actually measure the amount
of ink left, it has to calculate it based on what it knows about the
original amount of ink in a cartridge, how many drops have been printed,
how much ink has been used in servicing, etc. Add to this the
uncertainty of vapor loss in storage and in the printer (even an
unopened cartridge will lose water through the plastic), environmental
conditions and a host of other issues and you have a very difficult
problem. Given the hardware available (firmware that can count each
servicing event and each drop fired) it is surprising that they can get
to within 10%.
Regards,
Bob Headrick
F
Frank
Bob said:A nice dream, but the fact is that there is not any practical way to do
this. The printer does not have any way to actually measure the amount
of ink left, it has to calculate it based on what it knows about the
original amount of ink in a cartridge, how many drops have been printed,
how much ink has been used in servicing, etc. Add to this the
uncertainty of vapor loss in storage and in the printer (even an
unopened cartridge will lose water through the plastic), environmental
conditions and a host of other issues and you have a very difficult
problem. Given the hardware available (firmware that can count each
servicing event and each drop fired) it is surprising that they can get
to within 10%.
Regards,
Bob Headrick
Weight is the only true indicator of ink left in the cart.
Frank
Z
zakezuke
I'd be happy if Epson was forced to re-issue software that would give an
The problem is not the software, well it could be, but the main problem
isn't the software. It's the cleaning cycles which use a pump and not
diring of the piezos. Got a clog, the ink won't flow, but there is no
way of knowing the ink is not flowing from cartridge a because the pump
pumps from all at the same time.
The problem can be addressed to some degree in hardware, but this would
seriously add cost to the cartridges. The Canon technique of using a
prism is pretty cool, and pretty cheap, and pretty much protected under
patent. The chamber system of the Epsons really limit your options,
but I imagine it is possible to plop in a gas style gadge in the last
chamber before the ink leaves the cartridge. A window with be mega
cool.
honest picture of ink usage, along with a message when it was absolutely
necessary to change the cartridge.
The problem is not the software, well it could be, but the main problem
isn't the software. It's the cleaning cycles which use a pump and not
diring of the piezos. Got a clog, the ink won't flow, but there is no
way of knowing the ink is not flowing from cartridge a because the pump
pumps from all at the same time.
The problem can be addressed to some degree in hardware, but this would
seriously add cost to the cartridges. The Canon technique of using a
prism is pretty cool, and pretty cheap, and pretty much protected under
patent. The chamber system of the Epsons really limit your options,
but I imagine it is possible to plop in a gas style gadge in the last
chamber before the ink leaves the cartridge. A window with be mega
cool.
M
Mike
But do you continue to go back to purchase coffee from a store which sold
you coffee at a 130 degrees like McDonalds did. Once burned should be enough
for a rational person, otherwise they deserve what they get. Figure out the
actual cost of the Epson ink, and if you like getting ripped off then I
guess you will be a contented and happy customer.
Mike
you coffee at a 130 degrees like McDonalds did. Once burned should be enough
for a rational person, otherwise they deserve what they get. Figure out the
actual cost of the Epson ink, and if you like getting ripped off then I
guess you will be a contented and happy customer.
Mike
F
Frank
Mike said:But do you continue to go back to purchase coffee from a store which sold
you coffee at a 130 degrees like McDonalds did. Once burned should be enough
for a rational person, otherwise they deserve what they get. Figure out the
actual cost of the Epson ink, and if you like getting ripped off then I
guess you will be a contented and happy customer.
Mike
Nice try but no cigar. I think you may have missed the point.
Regardless, I haven't bought or purchased any oem ink for any of my
Epson's, Canon or HP printers in over 10 yrs.
All three of these companies make excellent printers is really the point
I was trying to make. Just because someone ocassionally gets a lemon
printer (or two!)doesn't mean the company makes only lemon printers, right?
The real "suckers" in my opinion are the ones who purchase or recommend
nothing but oem ink.
Frank
Z
zakezuke
But do you continue to go back to purchase coffee from a store which sold
Bad example. it was served at well over 195F and this was typical for
McDonalds at the time. The offering was hot coffee you can pickup and
it's still hot at lunch time. And the case wasn't about money, it was
about the medial bills, about 3rd degree burns. While awarded
millions, the actual sum settled on was far less for fear of being
taken back to court and extended this nonsense out much longer. This
is all subject to my recall of events and subject to error. But it
wasn't just hot coffee, from the mcdonnalds I visited before this
happened they tuned their machiens to just a hair below boiling, and
served it to people. When confronted that it was too hot, they
explained it's not to drink for at lunch time, and often laughed at
those who got blisters on their tounges. Getting 3rd degree burns,
i.e. nerve damage, tissue damage, white or black skin that is no longer
skin, and a huge pain around the area where you actually have nerves
and only 2nd degree burns is pretty serious. All 3rd degree burns
require medial treatment.. use of epson ink does not.
Epson ink you can't see the ink, so you have no way of knowing what is
empty. You don't see the burns.
you coffee at a 130 degrees like McDonalds did
Bad example. it was served at well over 195F and this was typical for
McDonalds at the time. The offering was hot coffee you can pickup and
it's still hot at lunch time. And the case wasn't about money, it was
about the medial bills, about 3rd degree burns. While awarded
millions, the actual sum settled on was far less for fear of being
taken back to court and extended this nonsense out much longer. This
is all subject to my recall of events and subject to error. But it
wasn't just hot coffee, from the mcdonnalds I visited before this
happened they tuned their machiens to just a hair below boiling, and
served it to people. When confronted that it was too hot, they
explained it's not to drink for at lunch time, and often laughed at
those who got blisters on their tounges. Getting 3rd degree burns,
i.e. nerve damage, tissue damage, white or black skin that is no longer
skin, and a huge pain around the area where you actually have nerves
and only 2nd degree burns is pretty serious. All 3rd degree burns
require medial treatment.. use of epson ink does not.
Epson ink you can't see the ink, so you have no way of knowing what is
empty. You don't see the burns.
B
Burt
Frank said:Weight is the only true indicator of ink left in the cart.
Frank
Next best is the bci-6 and bci-3 cart with the prism. Not accurate, but
does give you the low ink warning when the same condition occurs - that is,
when the reservoir is empty. I also like the Canon clear carts that permit
visual inspection. As I recall, the Epson carts are completely filled with
sponge so a clear cart may not tell you anything about remaining ink. MIS
does make virgin Epson replacement carts that are spongeless and are clear.
I don't know how well they work, but this sounds like a good idea.
M
Mike
Since Epson manufactures the cartridges and presumably the ink so they must
have a quality control department which amongst other things keeps
statistics. This should include evaporation, ink retention etc. Today
products come with warnings etc. Why shouldn't Epson be required to disclose
in its advertising or product insert the average non usable ink retention in
their product to the consumer? Failure to make this disclosure when they
advertise a specific ink content which they know or should know will
significantly fall short of the stated ink content reeks of consumer fraud.
At a minimum they should be forced to tell the public that the entire ink
contents does not represent usable ink.
Mike
have a quality control department which amongst other things keeps
statistics. This should include evaporation, ink retention etc. Today
products come with warnings etc. Why shouldn't Epson be required to disclose
in its advertising or product insert the average non usable ink retention in
their product to the consumer? Failure to make this disclosure when they
advertise a specific ink content which they know or should know will
significantly fall short of the stated ink content reeks of consumer fraud.
At a minimum they should be forced to tell the public that the entire ink
contents does not represent usable ink.
Mike
F
Frank
Burt said:Next best is the bci-6 and bci-3 cart with the prism. Not accurate, but
does give you the low ink warning when the same condition occurs - that is,
when the reservoir is empty. I also like the Canon clear carts that permit
visual inspection. As I recall, the Epson carts are completely filled with
sponge so a clear cart may not tell you anything about remaining ink. MIS
does make virgin Epson replacement carts that are spongeless and are clear.
I don't know how well they work, but this sounds like a good idea.
I get out the o'minimag flashlite to inspect all of my Canon carts for
ink level.
Works great!
Frank
F
Frank
Mike said:Since Epson manufactures the cartridges and presumably the ink so they must
have a quality control department which amongst other things keeps
statistics. This should include evaporation, ink retention etc. Today
products come with warnings etc. Why shouldn't Epson be required to disclose
in its advertising or product insert the average non usable ink retention in
their product to the consumer? Failure to make this disclosure when they
advertise a specific ink content which they know or should know will
significantly fall short of the stated ink content reeks of consumer fraud.
At a minimum they should be forced to tell the public that the entire ink
contents does not represent usable ink.
Mike
Cause the "bean counters", aka accountants, have extrapolated the
numbers and getting sued is the least costly road to travel.
That's the truth cause they (the companies) work for the share holders,
not the consumer.
It's just quirk of capitalism.
Frank
B
Bob Headrick
Mike said:Why shouldn't Epson be required to disclose in its advertising or
product insert the average non usable ink retention in their product
to the consumer? Failure to make this disclosure when they advertise a
specific ink content which they know or should know will significantly
fall short of the stated ink content reeks of consumer fraud. At a
minimum they should be forced to tell the public that the entire ink
contents does not represent usable ink.
Does Epson specify an ink content of their cartridges? Most
manufacturers do not list the ml of their cartridges either on their
website or packaging.
- Bob Headrick
Z
zakezuke
I get out the o'minimag flashlite to inspect all of my Canon carts for
I liked the old HP 45 system where they actually had something that
resembled a meter on the top, when it totally changed color you were so
close to being out that you know it was time to buy some more black.
Canon though clear do require you to pop them out for inspection.
ink level.
Works great
I liked the old HP 45 system where they actually had something that
resembled a meter on the top, when it totally changed color you were so
close to being out that you know it was time to buy some more black.
Canon though clear do require you to pop them out for inspection.
M
measekite
OR THEY COULD DISCLOSE HOW MUCH INK IS AVAILABLE TO THE CONSUMER. ALLMike said:Since Epson manufactures the cartridges and presumably the ink so they must
have a quality control department which amongst other things keeps
statistics. This should include evaporation, ink retention etc. Today
products come with warnings etc. Why shouldn't Epson be required to disclose
in its advertising or product insert the average non usable ink retention in
their product to the consumer?
INK VENDORS SHOULD DISCLOSE THE UNIT PRICE OF THE INK PER OZ AVAILABLE
FOR USE.
G
George E. Cawthon
If I bought coffee that was 130 degrees from
McDonalds, you bet I would go back, and tell them
to heat it up. When I make instant coffee the
water is boiling, probably down to 180 degrees
when I get it mixed. The coffee out of my 3 cup
coffee pot is considerably cooler at 150-160 degrees
Somebody needs a reality check on temperatures.
McDonalds, you bet I would go back, and tell them
to heat it up. When I make instant coffee the
water is boiling, probably down to 180 degrees
when I get it mixed. The coffee out of my 3 cup
coffee pot is considerably cooler at 150-160 degrees
Somebody needs a reality check on temperatures.
G
George E. Cawthon
zakezuke said:Bad example. it was served at well over 195F and this was typical for
McDonalds at the time. The offering was hot coffee you can pickup and
it's still hot at lunch time. And the case wasn't about money, it was
about the medial bills, about 3rd degree burns. While awarded
millions, the actual sum settled on was far less for fear of being
taken back to court and extended this nonsense out much longer. This
is all subject to my recall of events and subject to error. But it
wasn't just hot coffee, from the mcdonnalds I visited before this
happened they tuned their machiens to just a hair below boiling, and
served it to people. When confronted that it was too hot, they
explained it's not to drink for at lunch time, and often laughed at
those who got blisters on their tounges. Getting 3rd degree burns,
i.e. nerve damage, tissue damage, white or black skin that is no longer
skin, and a huge pain around the area where you actually have nerves
and only 2nd degree burns is pretty serious. All 3rd degree burns
require medial treatment.. use of epson ink does not.
Epson ink you can't see the ink, so you have no way of knowing what is
empty. You don't see the burns.
I think you are excessively harsh on McDonalds,
and yes there are probably jerk clerks but I doubt
that laughing about a burnt tongue is approved by
McDonalds. People want hot coffee, and if you
want it cooler, then let it sit, add cream, add
water or do what you want. The fact is that
coffee is made with boiling water, but it cools in
the storage carafes.
The real issue was a stupid person who put the
coffee cup between her legs (don't cars have cup
holders now?)and started to drive off, and a scum
lawyer. The woman got what she deserved, burned
legs, the lawyer got a lot of money, the rest of
us have to live with luke warm coffee. BTW, the
woman got 3rd degree burns because she just sat
there instead of getting out of the car and
stripping off her clothes. (May have had problems
with moving but in my opinion that means the
person shoud be more careful.)
All of which has nothing to do with measuring ink.
M
measekite
IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT COFFEE GO FIND ANOTHER NG.
IT IS PERFECTLY CLEAR WHAT IS EMPTY
THEY WANT OEM INK
BUYS UNBRANDED AFTERMARKET INK THAT HAS BEEN RELABELED MANY TIMES
WHAT A JOKE
WHAT A BUNCH OF CRAP. IF YOU WANT GOOD COFFEE AND HOT COFFEE GO TO
STARBUCKS AND THEY WILL GIVE IT TO YOU THE WAY YOU WANT. IF YOU CANNOT
AFFORD STARBUCKS THEN GET A SECOND JOB SELLING AFTERMARKET INK
THAT IS ILLEGAL
CORRECT
IT IS PERFECTLY CLEAR WHAT IS EMPTY
I think you are excessively harsh on McDonalds, and yes there are
probably jerk clerks but I doubt that laughing about a burnt tongue is
approved by McDonalds. People want hot coffee, and
THEY WANT OEM INK
if you want it cooler, then let it sit, add cream, add water or do
what you want. The fact is that coffee is made with boiling water,
but it cools in the storage carafes.
The real issue was a stupid person who
BUYS UNBRANDED AFTERMARKET INK THAT HAS BEEN RELABELED MANY TIMES
put the coffee cup between her legs
WHAT A JOKE
(don't cars have cup holders now?)and started to drive off, and a scum
lawyer. The woman got what she deserved, burned legs, the lawyer got
a lot of money, the rest of us have to live with luke warm coffee.
WHAT A BUNCH OF CRAP. IF YOU WANT GOOD COFFEE AND HOT COFFEE GO TO
STARBUCKS AND THEY WILL GIVE IT TO YOU THE WAY YOU WANT. IF YOU CANNOT
AFFORD STARBUCKS THEN GET A SECOND JOB SELLING AFTERMARKET INK
BTW, the woman got 3rd degree burns because she just sat there
instead of getting out of the car and stripping off her clothes.
THAT IS ILLEGAL
(May have had problems with moving but in my opinion that means the
person shoud be more careful.)
All of which has nothing to do with measuring ink.
CORRECT
M
measekite
AGAIN WID DA COFFEE
If I bought coffee that was 130 degrees from McDonalds, you bet I
would go back, and tell them to heat it up. When I make instant
coffee the water is boiling, probably down to 180 degrees when I get
it mixed. The coffee out of my 3 cup coffee pot is considerably
cooler at 150-160 degrees
Somebody needs a reality check on temperatures.