Anything you can spray on a "normal" cd to allow inkjet printing?

[Doc]

I believe CD are made from Polycarbonate. The model car racing boys use
special paint designed for their polycarbonate (Lexan) car bodies because
many other paints soften the surface or just don't stick very well....

Interesting stuff, I'll look into it further.. Of course, auto paint is a
whole different animal than aerosol spray paint. Much harder, more brittle.
Also subjected to a different kind of environment, UV rays etc..

 

[Doc]

So have you answered your own question yet? When you feel that you have
a workable solution, why not post a summary message explaining what you
found, how good your results are, what failures you encountered, and so
on. I'm sure there's a way to make your own printable disks at home.
While it's not something that a lot of others will do, it would be
interesting to know that it's been studied out thoroughly with actual
trials rather than hashing over ideas on a newsgroup.

That's how Usenet used to work.

This seems to be a narrow concept of Usenet. You seem to be completely
disregarding one of the most valuable aspects, exchanging info or
suggestions. That's the whole point of asking about it. In this case, I've
done some experimenting, but that doesn't mean I have all the answers to all
aspects of the subject at hand. Others have raised questions on things
like - how will the paint behave and or affect the DVD/CD over time? Maybe
different paints might be more appropriate for the task than others, etc.

 

[Allen]

I believe CD are made from Polycarbonate. The model car racing boys use
special paint designed for their polycarbonate (Lexan) car bodies because
many other paints soften the surface or just don't stick very well....

<snip>

The Polycarb is the thick "play" side. The label side is covered by
something much less durable.
Allen

 

[Allen]

Well.. I just went shopping for printable CDs... $20ish for a 50 pack
of Verbatium silvers and $10 for a 30 pack of the compusa brand... so
while non-printable would be a better deal without a doubt, and more
options... this is reasonable. It's shopping for printable DVD+/-Rs
that the price hike is terribly high localy at least for me... we are
talking on average 90+cents/disc vs mailorder of 25 to 50 cents/disc.
Ridata 16x or fuji 8x 40cents/per. So while I'll agree the mail order
price is similar... the local price is not.

But to answer your question... it wasn't so much about the price per
disc but rather, at least for me... it was the simple fact that I
bought a huge load when they were on sale at 10cents/per... brandnames
too... before I had a cd printer. While with the Epson I could "get
away" with printing on non-printables the Canon I could not. My
resolution was to do a batch in triplicate and give away discs to
friends done in a sharpy... problem solved. So your point is valid...
and I personaly agreee with you though I'm most empathic to those who
also have a bucket load of non-printables and would prefer to find a
means of using them vs a sharpy.

Thanks. The huge quantity on hand issue is just about the only valid
reason that I could think of.
Allen

 

[Richard Crowley]

This seems to be a narrow concept of Usenet. You seem to be completely
disregarding one of the most valuable aspects, exchanging info or
suggestions. That's the whole point of asking about it. In this case,
I've
done some experimenting, but that doesn't mean I have all the answers
to all
aspects of the subject at hand. Others have raised questions on things
like - how will the paint behave and or affect the DVD/CD over time?

Even the people who spend millions of $$$ developing
the discs can't really answer that question. Claims of 50
or even 100 years archival lifetime approach absurdity
when you consider how they come up with those numbers.
Opinions on those sort of topics here aren't worth the
electrons it took to transmit them.

Maybe different paints might be more appropriate for the
task than others, etc.

True, but even if we knew exactly what brand and model number
your discs were(*), it would still be unlikely that we could come
up with a definitive answer that this particular kind of paint
is suitable for a particular disc. Especially for CDs where only
a thin screen-printed layer (of unknown composition) protects
the reflective layer (sputtered metal) and the photo-sensitive
dye layer, i.e. the very point where the data is recorded.

OTOH, DVDs are a sandwich of two thin discs with the critical
area safely embedded in the middle. They would be nearly
impervious to whatever you do to the "label-side".

Now I agree that Usenet is a valuable place to exchange ideas
and experiences, recommendations, etc. And I had exactly the
same original question as you had, and considered a similar
series of experiments. But when you can buy "printable" discs
for so cheap, it moves the project way down, off the top-50
list, at least IMHO.

(*) and even if we knew a brand name and model number,
many of the big-name vendors sell "pot-luck" discs from
whomever they got a good OEM deal that month. See...
http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm
particularly: "Who makes the disc: Brand vs. Media ID"
After reading this page and the one on vendors...
http://www.digitalfaq.com/dvdguides/buyerguides/buymedia.htm
I have been quite happy buying printable Taiyo-Yuden
discs from Supermediastore.com

 

[Richard Crowley]

But to answer your question... it wasn't so much about the price per

disc but rather, at least for me... it was the simple fact that I
bought a huge load when they were on sale at 10cents/per... brandnames
too... before I had a cd printer. While with the Epson I could "get
away" with printing on non-printables the Canon I could not. My
resolution was to do a batch in triplicate and give away discs to
friends done in a sharpy... problem solved. So your point is valid...
and I personaly agreee with you though I'm most empathic to those who
also have a bucket load of non-printables and would prefer to find a
means of using them vs a sharpy.

Adhesive paper labels would seem to be the conventional
solution. Likely lots of us have stacks of them sitting around
from before we switched to printable discs.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Well, Mr. Rivers, I have been on Usenet for about... 15 years I guess,
so, I may not be an much an "old timer" as you, but I seem to recall
Usenet being an open forum for people exchanging ideas, as well as
people reporting on their discoveries.

Seems to me the Jpeg development group did exactly what you claim we
didn't, as did the Unix to Linux developers.

I'm sorry if the exchange of ideas is bothersome to you, but then there
is that delete button on your news client that someone had a brainstorm
to include on every application, which doesn't cost you a dime to use.


Art

 

[Doc]

"Doc" wrote ...

Even the people who spend millions of $$$ developing
the discs can't really answer that question. Claims of 50
or even 100 years archival lifetime approach absurdity
when you consider how they come up with those numbers.

Mmmm, okay. Let's say that's true... Now given your next statement -

Now I agree that Usenet is a valuable place to exchange ideas
and experiences, recommendations, etc. And I had exactly the
same original question as you had, and considered a similar
series of experiments. But when you can buy "printable" discs
for so cheap, it moves the project way down, off the top-50
list, at least IMHO.

Really? So, how does the material that's used on the printable discs last or
effect the disc over time? Do all manufacturers use the same material?

;-)

Wouldn't it be a hoot to find out that the material in a particular brand of
spray paint is actually less likely to cause damage and lasts longer?

 

[Richard Crowley]

"Richard Crowley" wrote ...


Mmmm, okay. Let's say that's true... Now given your next statement -


Really? So, how does the material that's used on the printable
discs last or effect the disc over time?

I'm reasonably confident of an average of 5-10 years of
usable life. I've already had to make replacement copies
of CDRs from several years ago.

Do all manufacturers use the same material?

No. And even the same manufacturer doesn't always use
the same material. Which renders any amateur, 3rd party
research highly questionable.

;-)

Wouldn't it be a hoot to find out that the material in a
particular brand of spray paint is actually less likely
to cause damage and lasts longer?

Absolutely. But I wouldn't invest a nickle or 5 minutes of
time to the research. Two reasons:

1) Impossible to really tell what the long-term effects of a
particular combination will be. By the time you find out, it
is too late for any number of reasons.

2) Even if you DID find a particular combination of "paint"
and CD discs, having no control over either, I'd bet money
that one or both will have changed within 6 months, which
would render all the research moot.

I am far more into DIY, etc. than most people here. I make
my own PC boards, have a milling machine in the garage,
etc. But this is one particular area where the return on the
investment in research is significantly negative, IMHO.

 

[Nicolaas Hawkins]

Actully, 52X would (probably) apply only to the outer edges of the disk --
more like 15,000 rpm. But that's still awfully fast.

The rotational speed (revolutions per minute) is the same in the centre of
the disk as it is at the outside edge.
However, the velocity at the centre of the disk at 27 500rpm (52x speed)
would be 57.6m/s (128mph) approximately, whereas the speed at the outer
edge would be in the order of 171m/s (382mph) - mach 0.501 - just over
half the speed of sound (761mph)!
This Kiwi would definitely NOT like to be around when something travelling
at THAT speed disintegrates!


--
Regards,
Nicolaas.


.... Is there another word for synonym?

 

[Doc]

Absolutely. But I wouldn't invest a nickle or 5 minutes of
time to the research.

<wondering if I should point out he's already invested more than that
engaging in naysaying>

;-)

1) Impossible to really tell what the long-term effects of a
particular combination will be.

Hmmm. I wonder if chemistry folks would agree that there's "no way to tell".
In fact, I'll ask this same question in a chemistry/science group. Should
have included them to begin with.

 

[Mike Rivers]

2) Even if you DID find a particular combination of "paint"
and CD discs, having no control over either, I'd bet money
that one or both will have changed within 6 months, which
would render all the research moot.

This discussion is kind of like the futile "what's the best laptop
computer to go with the best Firewire/USB audio interface to go with
the best DAW program" question that pops up every few weeks. There are
so many variables, and once you find something that works, one of the
manufacturers changes something, and there you go, back to the lab.

I am far more into DIY, etc. than most people here. I make
my own PC boards, have a milling machine in the garage,
etc. But this is one particular area where the return on the
investment in research is significantly negative, IMHO.

Cool. I don't mind making or modifying something that I can understand,
or that I can understand the answers I'd get if I asked a reasonably
intelligent question. I made my own monitor switch for $20 rather than
pay $100 or more, but to someone who doesn't have a drill press, wants
to know if there's a web site where he can download a schematic, and
spells "solder" with two Ds probably would be wasting his time and not
learn anything in the process.

I'm interested in audio and electronics, not ink chemistry or the
disintegration of rapidly rotating objects.

 

[CWatters]

The Polycarb is the thick "play" side. The label side is covered by
something much less durable.
Allen

Shame. At least if we knew it was polycarb we would have a compatible paint.
I wonder what it is?

 

[Richard Crowley]

"Doc" wrote ...

...

A combination of curiosity and utility. I already have a big stack of
$14/100 DVD's. As it so happens, I just scored a great deal on the demo
model of an inkjet printer that has CD/DVD printing capability at Circuit
City.

So, I wonder if there's a way to utilize the DVD's I already have without
having to reinvest in the much more expensive printables. Maybe someday
they'll be having $14/100 deals on them, but I haven't seen it yet.
Introducing a $1.50 can of spray paint into the equation so far seems to
provide a viable solution.

The regular price for Linkyo 52x or Ritek 48x white inkjet printable
CDRs is $13/100. at one of the most reliable dealers online today...
http://www.supermediastore.com/cdrblankmedia.html

 

[Mike Rivers]

I'm sorry if the exchange of ideas is bothersome to you, but then there
is that delete button on your news client that someone had a brainstorm
to include on every application, which doesn't cost you a dime to use.

Exchanging ideas is fine, but I haven't seem much constructive in this
discusson except for Doc's experienents. He seems to be the only one
actually trying anything. There are things that wild ideas are good for
because they spur imagination and creativity, but this is just plain
science. Pretty boring, actually.

 

[Mike Rivers]

Hmmm. I wonder if chemistry folks would agree that there's "no way to tell".
In fact, I'll ask this same question in a chemistry/science group. Should
have included them to begin with.

Well, you might find someone in one of those newsgroups that has a
spectrograph like they have on the crime TV shows and can tell you
what's in the ink. Maybe that will give a clue. <g>

But I beg you - don't start cross-posting this discussion in a
chemistry newsgroup. Take it over there and then drop back here and let
is know what you find out if they can get you some facts.

 

[Richard Crowley]

"zakezuke" wrote ...

Well.. I just went shopping for printable CDs... $20ish for a 50 pack
of Verbatium silvers and $10 for a 30 pack of the compusa brand... so
while non-printable would be a better deal without a doubt, and more
options... this is reasonable. It's shopping for printable DVD+/-Rs
that the price hike is terribly high localy at least for me... we are
talking on average 90+cents/disc vs mailorder of 25 to 50 cents/disc.
Ridata 16x or fuji 8x 40cents/per. So while I'll agree the mail order
price is similar... the local price is not.

The REGULAR price for Linkyo 52x or Ritek 48x white inkjet printable
CDRs is $13/100. at one of the most reliable dealers online today...
http://www.supermediastore.com/cdrblankmedia.html They are
cheap enough that I can afford to always keep them in stock at
home and buy more when I start to run low. Even my preferred
premium Taiyo-Yuden white inkjet 52x are only $31/100

But to answer your question... it wasn't so much about the price per
disc but rather, at least for me... it was the simple fact that I
bought a huge load when they were on sale at 10cents/per... brandnames
too... before I had a cd printer.

Donate them to a non-profit. You can even get a tax writeoff.

 

[Doc]

The regular price for Linkyo 52x or Ritek 48x white inkjet printable
CDRs is $13/100. at one of the most reliable dealers online today...
http://www.supermediastore.com/cdrblankmedia.html

Plus shipping unless you buy a whole mess of 'em. If you buy 600 to get the
"free" shipping, you're paying 2 cents more apiece for CD-R's than I paid
for 100 DVD's off the shelf less than a mile from my front door.

DVD printable is somewhat more, plus shipping, unless you buy like 500 at a
crack.

Not saying it's a bad deal, but looking at the arithmetic more
realistically.

Yeah, yeah, I know, a few years ago DVD recordables were like $5 apiece. And
an 8-meg stick of ram was $300, and bread was .15 cents a loaf, a new
Model-T was $500 and....

 

[George E. Cawthon]

Actully, 52X would (probably) apply only to the outer edges of the disk --
more like 15,000 rpm. But that's still awfully fast.

See my other post. Manufactures do no make
machines with a spindle speed of 15,000 rpm.

 

[George E. Cawthon]

And they don't break because they simply fall to pieces. Rather, the disk
develops a standing-wave warp, the stress of which cracks it.

Apparently they break only if they have
manufacturing or other defects or are unbalanced.