S
s_roger
more info here: http://msihq.designlab.info/thread.php?threadid=66664
D
Don Burnette
Chip said:
Thanks.
Another guy posted in another forum, with the mb I have now, the temp is
read differently than from what I had before. I feel better about it now.
D
Dave
Michael Brown said:
Maybe you would like to check out this link:-
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article191-page1.html
Maybe using MBM/MBProbe, they both have adjustment, you can make those temps
meaningful!
Can't hurt to try. ;-)
Dave
D
Don Burnette
Chip said:
This just keeps getting wierder and wierder.
This morning, while deleting some newsgroup messages, I noticed my temp was
around 65c. I watched it climb up into 80C plus, then the system shut down.
I waited about 5 minutes, powered back up, and it is idling cooler than it
has so far, mid to upper30's. Haven't stressed it under a load yet since
booting back up.
What in the world is going on? This Thermalrite XP90 I would think should
be a great heatsink, it certainly is not cheap. I've watched the cpu temp
jump as much as 8-10c in a very short moment. I hate to take it off, clean
it off, and try again.
Would the system shut down by a false core reading or is it really getting
that hot sporadically? All fans are working properly, and core center is in
manual mode, not cool n quiet.
D
Don Burnette
Don said:
I will also add, that not only that, with core center open, it registered my
fsb fluctuating significantly. I have it set at 205, and it would fluctuate
up to 220-225 when under load. Very strange.
E
Ed
Isn't that what Dynamic Overclocking in the BIOS does, changes the FSB
on the fly? You have it on?
D
Dee
Don said:
CoreCenter neither monitors nor display you FSB speed. It monitors and
displays your HT speed!
D
Dee
Don said:
CoreCenter neither monitors nor displays your FSB speed. It monitors
and displays your HT speed! FSB and HT are 2 different animals!
D
Don Burnette
Ed said:
No, it was off. I had it on manual, with fsb at 205.
I went ahead and took off the heatsink, and cleaned it along with the cpu
surface well.
I applied a very small bead of arctic silver 3 to the cpu, and spread it
very thin. I then did a tiny thin layer on the heatsink surface, and
remounted. I then loaded optimized defaults in the mb bios.
So far, my cpu temp is staying right at 40c, just ran 3dmark03 and cpu temp
only got to 41c. I will stress test it later with prime95. Looking much
better though, before it was climbing to 50c and higher shortly after
booting into windows with no load.
I am a little suprised my 3d mark 03 score was not better, getting around
6900, if I recall that was close to what I was getting with my Nforce2 XP
2800+ system. I guess the 9800 Pro would be the bottleneck now.
Keeping fingers crossed temps don't start to climb again. Sure am glad it
shuts itself down when it gets too hot
.Thanks,
D
Don Burnette
Dee said:
What exactly is HT speed? I see in the bios it can be set between 1-5.
With optimized defaults, it is at 5 on my system.
Core Center was showing me both fsb and resulting clock speed, when I click
on the core center name.
D
Dee
Don said:
HT (HyperTransport) is the memory link between an AMD CPU with an
integrated memory controller and the memory. These systems no longer
have a FSB because the HT replaced the FSB. Therefore, what you see in
CoreCenter is the HT speed with a multiplier and the resulting CPU speed.
You may thing this is being picky, but it's really not! If you want to
learn more, go to the AMD site and read the Technical documentation that
explains everything in detail.
D
Don Burnette
Dee said:
Interesting, thanks.
So when I changed the bus in the bios say from 200 to 210, this is correct
to overclock it right?
Also, can you tell me what settings in the bios for HT 1 through 5
represent?
Thanks,
D
Dee
Don said:
I can't answer that one. My BIOS doesn't have that option, so I would
be guessing at the best.
D
Don Burnette
Dee said:
Ok, thanks.
I think I may have solved my overheating problem with the last refit of the
heatsink.
I have been running a very cpu intensive application ( video decoding) for
the last 20 minutes, with 100% cpu useage. Highest the core has got is 47c.
Huge difference over what it was doing. I guess with this XP 90 heatsink on
this winchester chip, you gotta get it just right.
M
Michael Brown
Dee said:
Umm, no. The HT link is between the AMD CPU and the southbridge. Memory
comes off the CPU itself and has nothing to do with hypertransport. If
you're going to be picky, make sure you're right
Anyhow, the 1..5 settings are the HT multiplier settings. Perhaps this needs
a little explaining.
Everything in an A64 system is based off the system clock (sometimes also
incorrectly called the hypertransport clock). This system clock value is
multiplied by the southbridge and CPU to get the hypertransport clock. The
usual HT speed is 200x4=800MHz for the 130nm chips, and 200x5 for the 90nm
chips (IIRC). You generally don't want to go too much above the chipset's
rated HT speed, so when you start ramping up the system clock you'll need to
drop the HT multiplier at some point to compensate.
The next thing is the CPU speed. This is simply the system clock multiplied
by the CPU multiplier (anywhere between 4x and 25x in half-integer steps).
Fairly self explanatory. The final clock is the memory clock. Because the
memory controller is on the core, this is done by dividing the CPU clock by
some INTEGER value. This means your RAM will run slightly below what you
would expect in some cases, as there is no way to get 166MHz from a 200MHz
system clock and a 9 multiplier for example (it will run at 200 * 9 / 11 =
163.6MHz).
Finally, about the fluctuating CoreCenter speeds ... I'm not sure exactly
how an A64's thermal-throttle works (or even if it has one), but if it works
through PowerNow then I can explain why your FSB jumps around during
high-heat times:
First of all, you cannot directly detect the system clock speed. All you can
do is measure the current CPU speed, get the multiplier, and then divide to
get the system clock speed. Windows only detects the CPU speed on startup,
and most CPUID programs (including, I suspect, CoreCenter) are poorly
written and effectively just ask Windows "how fast is this CPU?". If there
is a PowerNow transition Windows will continue to report the same CPU speed,
and since the multiplier has dropped, the system clock speed will increase.
With 205x11, it would jump to 225MHz if it drops down to 10x, 250MHz if it
drops down to 9x, and so on. Of course, since thermal throttling is far
faster than CoreCenter measurements are taken, the value is averaged
resulting in a spread of values. This is al assuming that throttling exists
and works through PowerNow, something which I have no idea if it is or not
[...]
D
Don Burnette
Michael said:Dee said:
Umm, no. The HT link is between the AMD CPU and the southbridge.
Memory comes off the CPU itself and has nothing to do with
hypertransport. If you're going to be picky, make sure you're right
Anyhow, the 1..5 settings are the HT multiplier settings. Perhaps
this needs a little explaining.
Everything in an A64 system is based off the system clock (sometimes
also incorrectly called the hypertransport clock). This system clock
value is multiplied by the southbridge and CPU to get the
hypertransport clock. The usual HT speed is 200x4=800MHz for the
130nm chips, and 200x5 for the 90nm chips (IIRC). You generally don't
want to go too much above the chipset's rated HT speed, so when you
start ramping up the system clock you'll need to drop the HT
multiplier at some point to compensate.
The next thing is the CPU speed. This is simply the system clock
multiplied by the CPU multiplier (anywhere between 4x and 25x in
half-integer steps). Fairly self explanatory. The final clock is the
memory clock. Because the memory controller is on the core, this is
done by dividing the CPU clock by some INTEGER value. This means your
RAM will run slightly below what you would expect in some cases, as
there is no way to get 166MHz from a 200MHz system clock and a 9
multiplier for example (it will run at 200 * 9 / 11 = 163.6MHz).
Finally, about the fluctuating CoreCenter speeds ... I'm not sure
exactly how an A64's thermal-throttle works (or even if it has one),
but if it works through PowerNow then I can explain why your FSB
jumps around during high-heat times:
First of all, you cannot directly detect the system clock speed. All
you can do is measure the current CPU speed, get the multiplier, and
then divide to get the system clock speed. Windows only detects the
CPU speed on startup, and most CPUID programs (including, I suspect,
CoreCenter) are poorly written and effectively just ask Windows "how
fast is this CPU?". If there is a PowerNow transition Windows will
continue to report the same CPU speed, and since the multiplier has
dropped, the system clock speed will increase. With 205x11, it would
jump to 225MHz if it drops down to 10x, 250MHz if it drops down to
9x, and so on. Of course, since thermal throttling is far faster than
CoreCenter measurements are taken, the value is averaged resulting in
a spread of values. This is al assuming that throttling exists and
works through PowerNow, something which I have no idea if it is or
not
[...]
Great explanation and information.
Very helpful, helps me a bunch.
Thanks Michael,
D
Dee
Michael said:Umm, no. The HT link is between the AMD CPU and the southbridge. Memory
comes off the CPU itself and has nothing to do with hypertransport. If
you're going to be picky, make sure you're right
Okay, so I blew it! Do I get forty lashes with a wet noodle?
I realized my mistake later while thinking about it, but couldn't get
back to the computer until now.
I apologize for the error of my ways!
W
Wes Newell
Don't worry about it, so did Michael. Got his north and south confused.
The HT connects between the CPU and northbridge. If you want the facts
about HT, read this.
http://www.hypertransport.org/consortium/cons_faqs.cfm
M
Michael Brown
Wes said:
The northbridge on an K8 is on the CPU, and the southbridge is the bit that
is left outside the CPU. If you want to get *really* picky about it, the HT
link is between on (on-die) northbridge and the off-die components (such as
southbridges or other CPU's northbridges). However, the whole
northbridge/southbridge thing has become fairly debatable. For example, put
"northbridge definition" into google and you'll get "The part of a chipset
in a PC that controls communications among system memory, the processor,
external cache, and the AGP bus." from the first hit. Clearly, neither the
on-die thing or the off-die thing(s) satisfy this definition.
The current two-chip chipsets for the A64 pretty much just act as a proxy
between the HT bus and whatever interconnect the "standard" southbridge from
the chipset manufacturer uses, along with controlling the AGP bus. Sort of a
"equitorial-bridge" that sits somewhere between the northbridge and the
southbridge
[...]
W
Wes Newell
No it's not. The HT is nothing more than a FSB called by a different
name and using a different data transfer method.
There is no on die northbrige. In the case of my MB, the northbridge is
the SIS 755 chipset and the MB has a SIS963L southbridge. I think you're
losing it.
Here's what i found;
In Northbridge/Southbridge chipset architecture designs, the Northbridge
is the chip or chips that connect a CPU to memory, the PCI bus, Level 2
cache and AGP activities. The Northbridge chips communicate with the CPU
through the FSB.
Now, with the exception of memory, which now has it's on bus straight to
the CPU, the is correct.
Read what you just said, and then tell me how there can be another bus inThe current two-chip chipsets for the A64 pretty much just act as a
proxy between the HT bus and whatever interconnect the "standard"
southbridge from the chipset manufacturer uses, along with controlling
the AGP bus. Sort of a "equitorial-bridge" that sits somewhere between
the northbridge and the southbridge
between the northbridge and southbridge if the northbridge was in the CPU,
and the HT is the only thing that connects to the chipset. You been
smoking them funny cigarettes again?
Here's a simple example of the HT, northbrige, and southbridge. And note
what SIS calls it. And they make it.
SiS755
( North Bridge Chipset )
SiS Chipset Supports AGP8X for AMD Athlon 64 Platform
http://www.sis.com/products/chipsets/oa/athlon64/755.htm
SIS calls their link between the north adn south Multitol. VIA, something
else and others yet something else. It's still a seperate bus in any case.