Wireless mouse with longest battery life?

[Rod Speed]

Adam Russell wrote

It seems everbody has problems with Logitech's recharger/cradle.

No they dont. Mine are fine. Hordes dont have any problem with them.

I wonder when they will fix this problem.

Nothing to fix.

 

[Rod Speed]

//// Owen \\\\ wrote

What problem? Once it starts giving me trouble, I simply clean the
charging contacts of the cradle and the mouse (about once a year.)
End of trouble. The batteries acted up once. A charge cycle in my
Maha ended *that* quickly.

Yeah, usually with a fast blinking red led on top instead of the
normal slow blinking green that should show when its charging.

Its always been bad batterys when rarely seen here.

 

[Rod Speed]

Yea but I forget alot when its late. Also was kind of a pain when it
wouldnt. Set it down, wait, set it again, wait, clean the contacts, try again...

I've never had to clean the contacts on the rare occassion when it hasnt
started charging fine, just seat the mouse in the recharger properly.

 

[UCLAN]

It's doubtful those cells actually achieve upwards of
3000mAH. Even the majors are only now achieving 2700mAH,

http://www.thomasdistributing.com/accupower-2900mAh-rechargeable-batteries.htm

You will probably say they are not a major. So be it. And who mentioned
"upwards of 3000mAh" ?? Standard Energizer alkaline AA batteries are
only 2850 mAh.

http://data.energizer.com/SearchResult.aspx

and only then when batteries are new which can dismiss as
the point of rechargeables IS to keep using them.

The contrary is true. NiMH bateries require several charge/discharge
cycles to achieve maximum capacity. And chargers from Maha and
LaCrosse can give old batteries full capacity.

 

[UCLAN]

Yeah, usually with a fast blinking red led on top instead of the
normal slow blinking green that should show when its charging.

Its always been bad batterys when rarely seen here.

A simple discharge and charge to full capacity, and back in the mouse
they went. No problems since.

[The Maha MH-C401FS has steady red LEDs when charging, and steady green
LEDs when complete. My Maha MH-C808M has an LCD readout with blinking
battery symbols or "DONE".)

 

[kony]

http://www.thomasdistributing.com/accupower-2900mAh-rechargeable-batteries.htm

You will probably say they are not a major. So be it. And who mentioned
"upwards of 3000mAh" ??

You did.

They aren't a major. Their actual capacity is no better
than Sanyo ~ 2600 (between 2500-2700), plus they're
overpriced. IOW, no reason at all to use them.

Standard Energizer alkaline AA batteries are
only 2850 mAh.

You are still ignoring that this thread is within the
context of a "wireless mouse with longest battery life", and
in that context, standard Energizer alkalines will easily
last 200% as long, probably even longer than those
Accupowers.

Remember that the mouse you own is a particularly poor one
when it comes to battery life, even though overall it is a
great mouse for it's performance and having the recharge
cradle.

http://data.energizer.com/SearchResult.aspx


The contrary is true. NiMH bateries require several charge/discharge
cycles to achieve maximum capacity. And chargers from Maha and
LaCrosse can give old batteries full capacity.

That's a great way to senselessly waste time and battery
life. Charge the battery, use it, recharge it. Using a
charger to drain them first just wears them more. Only when
brand new and having a need for first-use longest life
possible would it matter much, which is not typically the
case with mice.

Now steering back to the original thread topic. OP wants a
mouse with longest battery life. Traditional NiMH will not
give that result. An optimally low-power mouse combined
with either alkaline, lithium, or the newest breed of
slow-self-discharge NiMH (which are lower capacity and so
significantly shorter runtime than alkaline or lithium but
cheaper over several years) is the correct solution. Buying
highest rated mAH NiMH is a drastic reduction in runtime for
the OP's expressed purpose.

 

[kony]

What problem? Once it starts giving me trouble, I simply clean the
charging contacts of the cradle and the mouse (about once a year.)
End of trouble. The batteries acted up once. A charge cycle in my
Maha ended *that* quickly.

The problem is that the vast majority of your consumer
electronics work without these kinds of issues, else every
single thing you touch would have extra burdens. You're
making an exception for one product and it would not be
reasonable to continually add additional "trivial" burdens
(as Rod put it) onto every single thing you own because it
all adds up.

 

[Rod Speed]

The problem is that the vast majority of your consumer
electronics work without these kinds of issues,

What matters is JUST those that need some way to conveniently
recharge them, most obviously with cordless and cell phones.

else every single thing you touch would have extra burdens.

Nope, only the relatively power hungry devices that
arent practical to have to change the batterys.

You're making an exception for one product

Nope, for a product that uses power significantly,
just like cordless and cellphones do.

and it would not be reasonable to continually add additional
"trivial" burdens (as Rod put it) onto every single thing you own

You only need that sort of convenience with the higher power use devices.

because it all adds up.

Nope, most of them like remotes never need that easy recharge convenience,
because they dont use enough power for a battery change to be a nuisance.

 

[Mitch Crane]

Now steering back to the original thread topic. OP wants a
mouse with longest battery life. Traditional NiMH will not
give that result. An optimally low-power mouse combined
with either alkaline, lithium, or the newest breed of
slow-self-discharge NiMH (which are lower capacity and so
significantly shorter runtime than alkaline or lithium but
cheaper over several years) is the correct solution. Buying
highest rated mAH NiMH is a drastic reduction in runtime for
the OP's expressed purpose.

I really think the OP just wants to not have to keep changing batteries
and for that the solution is rechargeables. Yes, the OP said:

I know that rechargeable batteries are an option, but would prefer to
keep using regular Duracell's, but with longer life.

I suspect that he/she simply means that getting some NiMH batteries and a
battery charger isn't desirable because it still involves the
inconvenience of the batteries running down and needing to be changed and
charged. A mouse with a charging stand solves that problem. The NiMH
batteries will far outlast the alkalines and the OP will do a lot less
buying batteries and throwing them away.

 

[UCLAN]

You did.

Liar. I said "soon to be 3000mAh."

Message-ID: <[email protected]>

Please quote back where I said "upwards of 3000mAh" or admit you
are a liar.

They aren't a major. Their actual capacity is no better
than Sanyo ~ 2600 (between 2500-2700), plus they're
overpriced. IOW, no reason at all to use them.

You're full of hot air, again. I've got four of them, and they all
test at over 2900 mAh. They've been making rechargeable batteries
for a long time. And they cost about the same as the 2500mAh or 2700mAh
Sanyo batteries. You're just making stuff up now.

You are still ignoring that this thread is within the
context of a "wireless mouse with longest battery life", and
in that context, standard Energizer alkalines will easily
last 200% as long, probably even longer than those
Accupowers.

Maybe yes, maybe no, depending on how much the mouse is used.

That's a great way to senselessly waste time and battery
life. Charge the battery, use it, recharge it. Using a
charger to drain them first just wears them more. Only when
brand new and having a need for first-use longest life
possible would it matter much, which is not typically the
case with mice.

Which has nothing to do with your comment that the mAh rating
is only valid when the NiMH battery is new. But then again, you
made so many erroneous statements in this thread that I can
understand your attempts to steer away from them.

 

[UCLAN]

The problem is that the vast majority of your consumer
electronics work without these kinds of issues, else every
single thing you touch would have extra burdens. You're
making an exception for one product and it would not be
reasonable to continually add additional "trivial" burdens
(as Rod put it) onto every single thing you own because it
all adds up.

More nonsense. EVERY piece of electronic gear that I own that has
charging contacts, such as my two cordless phones, specifies to clean
the contacts "periodically." The MX700 is no exception. Even my Sony
remote control recommends the battery compartment contacts be cleansed
periodically.

I had a problem with my Panasonic cordless phone. First thing Panasonic
tech support suggested was to clean the phone and charging cradle
contacts. Additional burdens, indeed. You're just in your argumentative
mode, once again.

 

[kony]

I really think the OP just wants to not have to keep changing batteries
and for that the solution is rechargeables. Yes, the OP said:

To me it reads quite the opposite, that when OP wrote "would
prefer to keep using regular Duracells", that's really what
was meant.

To not have to keep changing batteries as frequently and
still meet the desire to use (alkalines), all that is needed
is a more battery conservative mouse. The Logitechs with
the invisible light optics for example achieve easily over 6
months, a year is their projection and should not be
difficult to attain with typical use.

I suspect that he/she simply means that getting some NiMH batteries and a
battery charger isn't desirable because it still involves the
inconvenience of the batteries running down and needing to be changed and
charged. A mouse with a charging stand solves that problem. The NiMH
batteries will far outlast the alkalines and the OP will do a lot less
buying batteries and throwing them away.

A charging stand and rechargeable batteries are certainly
one option for wireless mousing. HOWEVER, they go directly
against every single criteria the OP has posted! It would
seem that is an idea choice for some people, perhaps even
you, but that's not what this thread is about.

Here's how it would play out:

- Energy conservative mouse runs 1 year per pair of
alkalines.

- Alkalines are less than $1 a pair bought in slight
quantity (reasonable to do with other low current devices
using AA too like remote controls and clocks, or devices
that need long shelf charge life for occasional on-demand
use like flashlights).

- NiMH are at least $3.50 a pair for anything decent, and
you'll want two pair so the second pair is charged to
eliminate hours of downtime when currently installed
batteries are drained. Then there's addt'l cost for a
charger if OP doesn't have one, or space to pack it if this
is for mobile use. It will take over 7 years just to break
even with typical rechargables, maybe even longer. Will the
mouse even last that long, or be obsolete or broken already?

If someone had a lot of devices that (are) using NiMH AA
batteries, it may be more convenient to work in another pair
in the charging and rotation cycle and may be more
environmentally friendly, but that is NOT what the OP asked
about.

 

[kony]

Liar. I said "soon to be 3000mAh."

Do you deny writing 2900mAh?
Is 2900mAH not qualifying as upwards of 3000mAh too?

Message-ID: <[email protected]>

Please quote back where I said "upwards of 3000mAh" or admit you
are a liar.

Did you need to use the word "upwards"?
I think this is a pointless argument.

You're full of hot air, again. I've got four of them, and they all
test at over 2900 mAh. They've been making rechargeable batteries
for a long time. And they cost about the same as the 2500mAh or 2700mAh
Sanyo batteries. You're just making stuff up now.

Nope, independant testing shows them under the capacity of a
Sanyo 2700mAh. Candlepowerforums.com amoung other places
has the results but I'm not going Google searching for this
trival, argument's sake.

Maybe yes, maybe no, depending on how much the mouse is used.

False.
Fact - with modern energy conservative mice (which IS what
OP was asking about), it is impossible to get over 1/2 the
runtime from the best NiMH cells versus (fresh when
installed) similar quality alkalines.

It's all about context. Your mouse is great for precision
but a pig when it comes to draining batteries. Other mice
get around 1 year of runtime with alkalines which will cause
a NiMH to self discharge down to a point too low to operate
the mouse long before then.

Test it yourself- others have. NiMH (except the newest
breed like eneloop which are lower capacity) will self
discharge substantially over a year's time.

For the record, I have one of the Logitech invisible light
mice, among several other cordless mice. I even have NiMH
cells in it at the moment. They don't last more than a
couple months before it starts getting flaky.

Which has nothing to do with your comment that the mAh rating
is only valid when the NiMH battery is new. But then again, you
made so many erroneous statements in this thread that I can
understand your attempts to steer away from them.

I'm sorry you can't understand this topic but anyone
bothering to do the math will see I'm right. NiMH degrading
in capacity after several charge/discharge cycles makes the
result even more in favor of alkalines.

This doesn't make NiMH unreasonable to use for a cordless
mouse, but it does directly contradict the OP's expressed
desire to get longest battery life.

 

[kony]

More nonsense. EVERY piece of electronic gear that I own that has
charging contacts, such as my two cordless phones, specifies to clean
the contacts "periodically." The MX700 is no exception. Even my Sony
remote control recommends the battery compartment contacts be cleansed
periodically.

I had a problem with my Panasonic cordless phone. First thing Panasonic
tech support suggested was to clean the phone and charging cradle
contacts. Additional burdens, indeed. You're just in your argumentative
mode, once again.

When I hang up my cordless phones they charge fine. Can't
remember the last time I had to wipe the contacts to get it
to happen. Have fun with having to do all this extra stuff
just to keep your products working.

 

[Adam Russell]

When I hang up my cordless phones they charge fine. Can't
remember the last time I had to wipe the contacts to get it
to happen.

Cant say it works as well for everyone.

 

[Mitch Crane]

To me it reads quite the opposite, that when OP wrote "would
prefer to keep using regular Duracells", that's really what
was meant.

A reasonable literal interpretation. Only the OP knows for sure, but
I'd bet my money on the fact that he/she is simply tired of having to
change and buy batteries so frequently.

To not have to keep changing batteries as frequently and
still meet the desire to use (alkalines), all that is needed
is a more battery conservative mouse. The Logitechs with
the invisible light optics for example achieve easily over 6
months, a year is their projection and should not be
difficult to attain with typical use.

Well, if that mouse can really go over 6 months then even I, a
rechargeable battery lover, could see myself using it, but I'm
skeptical that it could.

A charging stand and rechargeable batteries are certainly
one option for wireless mousing. HOWEVER, they go directly
against every single criteria the OP has posted! It would
seem that is an idea choice for some people, perhaps even
you, but that's not what this thread is about.

Here's how it would play out:

- Energy conservative mouse runs 1 year per pair of
alkalines.

You seem to be very optimistic about the output of alkalines and very
pesimistic about the output of NiMH. The batteries in my remotes don't
even last 6 months. It seems unlikely to me that the mouse would be
less draining than a TV remote.

- Alkalines are less than $1 a pair bought in slight
quantity (reasonable to do with other low current devices
using AA too like remote controls and clocks, or devices
that need long shelf charge life for occasional on-demand
use like flashlights).

- NiMH are at least $3.50 a pair for anything decent, and
you'll want two pair so the second pair is charged to
eliminate hours of downtime when currently installed
batteries are drained.

Yes, that was the point I was making about why the OP probably wasn't
interested in switching to rechargeables. I would agree. A mouse which
keeps its batteries charged is a different story.

Then there's addt'l cost for a charger if OP doesn't have one, or
space to pack it if this is for mobile use. It will take over 7
years just to break even with typical rechargables, maybe even
longer. Will the mouse even last that long, or be obsolete or
broken already?

Cost isn't really that big a concern for me, and maybe not the OP since
he/she is willing to continue to buy batteries. What I don't want is to
have my batteries die at an inopportune time and then have to start
looking for batteries. Can that happen with the rechargeable? Yes, if
you forget to keep it on the stand, in which case you are in the same
boat as you would have been with alkalines, and you can throw in a pair
of those in an emergency.

If someone had a lot of devices that (are) using NiMH AA
batteries, it may be more convenient to work in another pair
in the charging and rotation cycle and may be more
environmentally friendly, but that is NOT what the OP asked
about.

Yes, and I wasn't suggesting that either. I specifically said that a
mouse with a charging stand is a good solution because it lets the user
avoid changing batteries altogether.

BTW, with regard to the cost of batteries, I recently bought 40AA +
10AAA alkalines for $11 shipped (no rebate) from batteries.com. They
seem to be good batteries, too.

Of course, I also bought 4 2500mah NiMH batteries at walmart for about
$6. A lot more per battery, but I'll bet I'll be using these 4 NiMH
batteries long after the last alkaline is gone.

 

[Mitch Crane]

Do you deny writing 2900mAh?
Is 2900mAH not qualifying as upwards of 3000mAh too?

Actually, it's not. 2900mah is downwards of 3000mah.

 

[kony]

On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 15:32:42 -0600, Mitch Crane

Well, if that mouse can really go over 6 months then even I, a
rechargeable battery lover, could see myself using it, but I'm
skeptical that it could.


You seem to be very optimistic about the output of alkalines and very
pesimistic about the output of NiMH. The batteries in my remotes don't
even last 6 months. It seems unlikely to me that the mouse would be
less draining than a TV remote.

I have two of these Logitech mice. They're VERY power
conservative. None of my remotes use up batteries in one
year, but they're not the fancy types with lit LCD so that
might account for it.

Cost isn't really that big a concern for me, and maybe not the OP since
he/she is willing to continue to buy batteries. What I don't want is to
have my batteries die at an inopportune time and then have to start
looking for batteries. Can that happen with the rechargeable? Yes, if
you forget to keep it on the stand, in which case you are in the same
boat as you would have been with alkalines, and you can throw in a pair
of those in an emergency.

The software warns of low batteries and the notebook
variants also have a battery indictor LED (on the
Logitechs).

Yes, and I wasn't suggesting that either. I specifically said that a
mouse with a charging stand is a good solution because it lets the user
avoid changing batteries altogether.

Yes it is a great solution for a desktop, if one wants a
higher drain but premium performance mouse as with some of
the lasers or the MX700/900. It's just the opposite of what
the OP asked about.

BTW, with regard to the cost of batteries, I recently bought 40AA +
10AAA alkalines for $11 shipped (no rebate) from batteries.com. They
seem to be good batteries, too.

Of course, I also bought 4 2500mah NiMH batteries at walmart for about
$6. A lot more per battery, but I'll bet I'll be using these 4 NiMH
batteries long after the last alkaline is gone.

Depends on the device with me, I primarily use NiMH but
remotes, clocks, a couple of emergency flashlights and one
of my two Logitech mice have alkalines.

 

[kony]

Actually, it's not. 2900mah is downwards of 3000mah.

Which is upwards of 300mAh. Upwards of means "up to",
"toward", etc, not above.

 

[Mitch Crane]

Which is upwards of 300mAh. Upwards of means "up to",
"toward", etc, not above.

Left of me is not right of me and right of me is not left of me and in
front of me is not in back of me. You used the wrong term. And yes, 3000
is upwards of 300.