Will Microsoft sell me installation disks for my OEM version?

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

No source is nothing more that a rumor and should be treated as such.
I normally place little weight in rumors as I do in this case since I see
evidence to the contrary.
Dell has consistently made media available.

"Gateway and Sony"
This is far from all major OEMs and does not include Dell.
You may need to ask for it or change the model, but Dell has always had
media available to their customers.
Check the Dell newsgroup for more details on models.
The low prices demanded by the customers help dictate the option the OEM
takes, but the OEM makes a choice.

"Possibly on higher end models."
But that is a choice made by the OEM to give the customer a lower price.

"but the big OEM vendors may not."
As stated above Dell has.
Or do you mean "They may" and they also "may not"
It is still the OEMs option.

This is often blamed directly on Microsoft but Microsoft gave the options to
the OEM, large and small.
From there the OEMs chose based on the OEMs needs.
Perhaps what is meant is for the cheapest option, the OEM needs to go with
the worst option.
But with most products, the more you pay, the more you get.

Customers have always been able to get the restore option they wanted, but
there may be a price and many new computer shoppers look primarily at price.

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Some OEM media have allowed repair options while others may not.
It seems the options from the cheapest models often have no repair
capability.
Starting the recovery process sometimes only gives a complete recovery with
no option for repair or saving data.
But those are some things consumers should become aware before the need
arises.
And usually the OEMs are less than forthcoming as to the limitations of the
process they provide.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org

 

[PTravel]

Apparently Sony does do,

Sony does not.

so I don't know what the OP's major issue is, other than not being able to
"repair."

That's the issue.

Most recovery software I've seen has this capability, at least to some
extent, but don't know specifics about Sony's.

Sony doesn't have recovery software. You can re-install from a backup,
which is fine provided you have a backup that predates whatever problem it
is you're trying to remedy, or you can re-install from the partition, which
takes you back to day one, and you must re-install all your software,
re-configure the computer the way you want it, and de-install all the
crapware.

Considering that even having a genuine retail installation disc is no
guarantee that you won't need to do a full re-install I really don't see
it as being too much of an issue.

That's you. I don't have the time to devote to a full re-install or do
daily system backups that take hours to a set of external hard drives
devoted to just that purpose.

I don't understand why some people think that the way they use computers is
the way everyone uses computers. That the Apple philosophy: "we know better
than you how you should be working." Unfortunately, that's now becoming the
Microsoft philosophy as well.

 

[PTravel]

Some OEM media have allowed repair options while others may not.
It seems the options from the cheapest models often have no repair
capability.

Just for clarification, my laptop is a $2,200 Sony Vaio SZ440. That's
hardly a cheap model by any standard.

 

[Tinman]

Sony does not.

Stay consistent.

You responded with "I've done that" when told that there is usually a way to
make your own restore media, just like I wrote about above. Here is the
quote:

=======================================

I've done that. However, that is not the same as being able to repair the
OS -- I'd lose all of my programs that were installed after the backup was
created,

=======================================

So are you able to create your own recovery media or not?

That's you. I don't have the time to devote to a full re-install or do
daily system backups that take hours to a set of external hard drives
devoted to just that purpose

Yet you have time to post endlessly about an issue that hasn't even occurred
yet. Uh, OK.

I don't understand why some people think that the way they use computers
is the way everyone uses computers. That the Apple philosophy: "we know
better than you how you should be working." Unfortunately, that's now
becoming the Microsoft philosophy as well.

Now yer being a clueless idiot. You have absolutely no guarantee, even with
a gen-u-whine OS disc that you won't have to someday re-install. If you
didn't have yer head so far up yer ass you would realize that was the point
I made.

Moreover, I don't give a crap how you use a computer. And the Apple comment
is way out in left field. What I can state with certainty is it would have
taken me less than a day to realize what I actually had, restore wise, and
if it didn't suit me the laptop would go back.

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Perhaps you missed the word "often".
You can spend any $ amount you want.

"cheap" has many meanings and price is no guarantee of not getting something
"cheap"

However sometimes it is prudent to do appropriate research so you know in
advance what you are getting so you do not have to play this catch up game
you are in the middle of now.
You have control as long as the computer can be returned.
Once that point has passed, you lose a degree of control.
Myself as well as others here fail to understand why you are letting the
point of control pass when apparently you are not satisfied with your
purchase.
Simply return the computer or quietly accept what you have since you are now
and have been for a while fully aware of the terms.

It is easy to get exactly what you want assuming you are willing to do a
little research in advance.

 

[PTravel]

Stay consistent.

I am. Sony does not send you recovery disks.

You responded with "I've done that" when told that there is usually a way
to make your own restore media, just like I wrote about above. Here is the
quote:

=======================================
=======================================

So are you able to create your own recovery media or not?

See above.

Yet you have time to post endlessly about an issue that hasn't even
occurred yet. Uh, OK.

That's right. If you take take all the time I devote to posting on this
forum and multiply it time 100 it is still less than the amount of time
required to do a full-reinstall, add back all my hardware and sofware and
delete the crapware.

Clearly, you have nothing of substance to say. Why do you both posting?

Now yer being a clueless idiot.

Ah, yes, name-calling. The last resort of someone without any substantive
argument.

You have absolutely no guarantee, even with a gen-u-whine OS disc that you
won't have to someday re-install.

So who's asking for a guarantee? I'll guarantee you this: under XP, there
were plenty of occassions when a repair took care of my problems. Without
an install disk for Vista, I don't have this option.

That's not so hard, is it?

If you didn't have yer head so far up yer ass you would realize that was
the point I made.

Do you really think that, with this kind of rhetorical style, you have any
credibility at all?

Moreover, I don't give a crap how you use a computer.

Clearly, as it's never occured to you that there are valid reasons for
having an install disk. This just validates my prior comment: you think
everyone should work like you.

And the Apple comment is way out in left field.

Only if you've never used Macs.

What I can state with certainty is it would have taken me less than a day
to realize what I actually had, restore wise, and if it didn't suit me the
laptop would go back.

I realized what I had as soon as I called Sony and they told me that the
omission of the install disks wasn't an error. I still like the laptop, so
I've kept it. If you've read this thread carefully (doubtful), you'll know
that there are other solutions to the omission beside doing a backup or
original reinstall.

 

[PTravel]

Perhaps you missed the word "often".
You can spend any $ amount you want.

"cheap" has many meanings and price is no guarantee of not getting
something "cheap"

However sometimes it is prudent to do appropriate research so you know in
advance what you are getting so you do not have to play this catch up game
you are in the middle of now.

Which gets to my point about Sony. My reasonable expectation, based on past
experience buying computers from Sony and Sony's current marketing, is that
I would receive what I've always received, i.e. install disks. I didn't
specifically ask Sony if they were not including something that a reasonable
person would expect to be included. I also didn't ask whether the keyboard
had an ENTER key, either.

You have control as long as the computer can be returned.
Once that point has passed, you lose a degree of control.

Well, of course. And, as I said, I like the machine so I'm keeping it.

Myself as well as others here fail to understand why you are letting the
point of control pass when apparently you are not satisfied with your
purchase.

I am satisfied with my purchase to this extent: having researched the
market, the SZ440 fits my needs exactly. Other laptops don't come as close.
And, evidently from what I've read in this thread, omitting install disks is
now becoming the de facto standard.

Simply return the computer or quietly accept what you have since you are
now and have been for a while fully aware of the terms.

Or I can look closely at what Sony's representations were with respect to
this laptop and, if I choose, take action accordingly.

It is easy to get exactly what you want assuming you are willing to do a
little research in advance.

Really? Try and get this laptop with install disks.

 

[Tinman]

I am. Sony does not send you recovery disks.

The emphasis was in regard to "user-created" which Sony does permit, and
which is no different than OEM-created recovery discs that have been around
for years.

Didn't bother with the rest of your whine, but good luck in whatever yer
after nonetheless.

 

[PTravel]

The emphasis was in regard to "user-created" which Sony does permit, and
which is no different than OEM-created recovery discs that have been
around for years.

That was your emphasis. This is quite different from Sony's OEM recovery
disks which, in the past, allowed installing drivers and software
individually as selected and didn't require a complete re-install of the
factory image.

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

"...omitting install disks is now becoming the de facto standard."
Not quite true.
This has been happening for several years.
Actually is seems to be moving back toward providing the media where in some
cases, media was not provided.

"Really? Try and get this laptop with install disks."
I worded my statement poorly.
I meant if install media was important to me, I would have researched
laptops that came with media and purchase accordingly.
Media is important to me so that would be high on my list of "Must haves"
for any laptop I purchase.
If the laptop I wanted did not come with media, I would purchase another.
You on the other hand are demonstrating that what you received is acceptable
since you are not taking any action.

What in "Sony's current marketing" suggests media is included?

"reasonable person would expect to be included"
Are you sure?
Since many OEMs have gone away from media the last several years, it seems
your expectation is base on ancient information.
It seems a reasonable person would base assumptions on current information
not years old information.
Personally, I would prefer not to assume and ask about anything I felt
necessary.

Your comparison of a keyboard Enter key and media is not reasonable and I
doubt any court would see the comparison, but then you are the lawyer.


--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org

 

[DevilsPGD]

In message <#[email protected]> "PTravel"

There are two ways to approach something like this. A small claims suit for
the cost of a new copy of Vista Business takes no time and costs about $100
or so.

Plus several hours of your time. Most lawyers I know bill at well over
$200/hour.

I regularly have this discussion with my mom -- She bills out at
$100-$200/hour (not a lawyer, she's in a non-computer related consulting
business), yet will spend 30-40 minutes driving *and* $5 gas to save $5
on a purchase.

She won't buy stuff online because she doesn't want to pay shipping (she
has issues with putting in her credit card and stuff like that, but she
will ask me to buy something for her online, but only if it is free
shipping or she *cannot* get it locally) -- But again, she'll spend
30-60 minutes driving to get the item locally.

Each to their own.

Then, there is always that old standby -- the class action suit.
Those are particularly appealing to lawyers, because, usually, the lawyers
are the only ones to come out ahead.
Agreed.

Please note: I am not saying that Sony has violated any law or should be
sued on a class-action basis. As I said, I need to take a long, hard look
at the material Sony provided pre-purchase. They may have been clear about
what came with the laptop and I may have simply been sloppy in reading it.

Understood -- My Gateway was certainly very clear about this, before
purchase, in the packaging before I removed it from the box, and after
powering on the laptop.

There is also a competitive market solution here -- If enough people buy
from vendors that provide the disks (whether automatically or only upon
request), the others will change or die. If not enough people care,
then those of us that do will simply buy bare systems and purchase our
own OSes.