Will Microsoft sell me installation disks for my OEM version?

  • Thread starter Thread starter PTravel
  • Start date Start date
D. Spencer Hines said:
But you are running Vista BUSINESS, RIGHT?

Ultimate will probably consume more disc space.
Click to expand...

Well, yes, but when I said 7 gigs, I was talking about Vista Business.
UNSAT.
Click to expand...

I agree. The laptop was sold as a business machine. I can't fool around
with Sony telephone support if my machine dies. I do, however, keep a
backup image on a portable USB drive.
They don't want to let you Game The System by asking "What If" Questions
and
getting answers.


Nonsense! Of course it's the Reason.
Click to expand...

Microsoft was sued because it has gained near monopolist status through a
variety of different means, none of which has anything to do with the
quality of their software and everything to do with questionable licensing
practices.
If you litigated it you have NO RIGHT to talk about it here.
Click to expand...

I have every right to talk about anything I want here.
So you should just decline to express any opinion at all and just say NO
COMMENT from the get go.
Click to expand...

Why? I can express any opinion I want as long as I don't violate any
confidentiality obligations. I haven't, so you might want to cool your jets
a bit.
NO SALE.

NO American Corporation should have to compete in World Markets based on
that sort of cunniculan-pygan reasoning for a business model.
Click to expand...

As content providers have discovered, technology has changed the way they
must do business. Those who can adapt to the new marketplace will survive.
Those who can't won't. I assume you don't favor legislation requiring the
sale of buggy whips with the purchase of a new automobile. Buggy whip
manufacturers found other ways to make money, or they went under.

And the lawyers feast on the weak, the lame and the roadkill. <g>
Click to expand...

Not the ones I know. We all represent businesses who have disputes with
other businesses. However, I will share my favorite lawyer joke:

UCLA has stopped using rats in psychology department experiments, and now
uses lawyers instead. There are a variety of reasons why, but here are the
top three:

3. There are more lawyers than rats.
2. The researchers don't get attached to the lawyers like they did to the
rats.

But the primary reason:

1. There are some things even a rat won't do.
 
Well, yes, but when I said 7 gigs, I was talking about Vista Business.
Click to expand...

I KNOW THAT.

READ what is WRITTEN ABOVE. I referred to ULTIMATE.

"I'll bet the Vista ULTIMATE hidden partition takes up more than 7 GB."

And YOU said:

"That's what Drive Management reports."

Are you this DUMB as a LAWYER?
I agree. The laptop was sold as a business machine. I can't fool around
with Sony telephone support if my machine dies. I do, however, keep a
backup image on a portable USB drive.
Click to expand...

Which may prove to be WORTHLESS when you actually try to USE it.

You STILL don't GET it DO you?
Microsoft was sued because it has gained near monopolist status through a
variety of different means, none of which has anything to do with the
quality of their software and everything to do with questionable licensing
practices.
Click to expand...

Nonsense. Microsoft was/is no STANDARD OIL.

Those Court Decisions have made life worse for all of us HONEST Microsoft
software users. Microsoft is fighting back the only way it can -- with
piracy protection up the yin-yang -- OUR yins and yangs.

What we have NOW is much worse that what we had BEFORE -- and the software
is FAR more expensive. Microsoft has to pay all those judgments against
it.
I have every right to talk about anything I want here.
Click to expand...

Horse Manure.

You have no right to play peekaboo lawyer with us and express a slick, sly,
half-arsed opinion about the Justice Department-- then, when challenged,
pull the blanket down over your head and say you can't really talk about it.

Talk or don't talk. Don't play peekaboo lawyer with us.
Why? I can express any opinion I want as long as I don't violate any
confidentiality obligations. I haven't, so you might want to cool your
jets a bit.
Click to expand...

FARBLONDJET!

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas
 
Jupiter Jones said:
All the OEMs are required is to furnish some way to restore to original
condition and this requirement is often met using a hidden partition on the
hard drive.
Click to expand...

Which won't help if the hard drive dies.
Most large OEMs will give you the OS disks if you ask nicely,
either for free or for a nominal fee.

Gary VanderMolen
 
All Vista DVDs are identical, whether OEM, full retail or upgrade.
Only the product key differs.

Gary VanderMolen
 
PTravel said:
It's not a question of whether the method of installing Vista is illegal,
but whether marketing a product as, "coming with Vista" (or whatever it
was that Sony said) is misleading and, therefore, illegal.
Click to expand...
Your PC came with Vista installed, the method of (re)-installing that is
irrelevent. I see no law broken here
 
Brian W said:
Your PC came with Vista installed, the method of (re)-installing that is
irrelevent. I see no law broken here
Click to expand...

Once again, the opinion of lay people as to whether Sony has incurred
liability in its marketing is irrelevant, nor do I intend to debate it with
you.
 
Personally, I believe YOU are the lay person here. Many people hear have
many years of experience with Microsoft, their license agreements, and
OEM's. Your rambling on in lawyer fashion about what you THINK and how you
think it should be, not how it is, and how it has been for years. Do you
actually think your the first lawyer to discover this? If it was illegal it
would have been changed a long time ago. If your loosing that much sleep
over it, return the damn Sony and be done with it, switch over to Linux or
something, I don't think anyone's tried to sue them yet, you could be the
first!

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Personally, I believe YOU are the lay person here. Many people hear have
many years of experience with Microsoft, their license agreements, and
OEM's. Your rambling on in lawyer fashion about what you THINK and how you
think it should be, not how it is, and how it has been for years. Do you
actually think your the first lawyer to discover this? If it was illegal it
would have been changed a long time ago. If your loosing that much sleep
over it, return the damn Sony and be done with it, switch over to Linux or
something, I don't think anyone's tried to sue them yet, you could be the
first!
Click to expand...

I don't care what you think. I'm a lawyer, you're not. Despite your
"years of experience with Microsoft," you don't know the law and
certainly aren't in any position to explain it to anyone else.

Bottom line: I have the license, the education and the experience
(send me your email address and I'll send you my name and bar number
-- you can google me and see what exactly what I do and who I do it
for). I know the law. You know computers (presumably). We should
each stick to what we know.
 
Bottom line: I have the license, the education and the experience
(send me your email address and I'll send you my name and bar number
-- you can google me and see what exactly what I do and who I do it
for). I know the law. You know computers (presumably). We should
each stick to what we know.
Click to expand...

I haven't read this message thread, just this message as it caught my
attention. A quick Google search found:

http://www.schnader.com/Newest_4_02/site Files/attorneys/attorneyBio.asp?attyID=396

I assume this would be you?
 
In message <[email protected]>
I don't care what you think. I'm a lawyer, you're not. Despite your
"years of experience with Microsoft," you don't know the law and
certainly aren't in any position to explain it to anyone else.
Click to expand...

Then put your money where your mouth is and do what lawyers do.
 
Have you verified that?
I know all retail DVDs are the same, but I have not seen anything to suggest
all OEM are the same as retail.
Especially when it comes to the customized media of the OEMs.
Do you have a source?
 
PTravel said:
It's not a question of whether the method of installing Vista is
illegal, but whether marketing a product as, "coming with Vista" (or
whatever it was that Sony said) is misleading and, therefore, illegal.
Click to expand...
I like where you are going with this! The lack of CD for my new Toshiba
laptop was a royal PITA.
 
D. Spencer Hines said:
NO SALE.

NO American Corporation should have to compete in World Markets based on
that sort of cunniculan-pygan reasoning for a business model.
Click to expand...

Wake up and smell the coffee. Just because most US based businesses
live in the nice safe shell of state protection does not mean that they
should. I thought that one of the things you people (yes you people)
peddled to the world was how good you were and how great everything you
did was. If it is that good why do you need all this BS legal stuff to
prop up your failing business practices. The whole basis of business is
to make money. Making money through litigation is NOT productive (Even
our legal eagle poster would probably admit this). Nor is expecting a
cheque in the mail every week for something your grandfather invented
reasonable.

Instead of saying "NO American corporation should have to compete" you
should be saying we are innovators in the land of the free. Of course
we can compete. Compete and win.
 
Vista Business came pre-installed on my new Sony Vaio laptop. Sony
doesn't provide installation disks -- if something goes wrong, the only
option is to re-install entirely, either from an image backup or from
the original installation that resides in a protected partition on the
hard drive. Re-installation from the hard drive takes 3 hours and
installs all the demo crapware that takes another hour to remove.
Re-installing from the image backup is slightly faster, but you run the
risk of installing from a backup created later than whatever damage you
are trying to undo.

Will Microsoft sell me a proper set of installation disks?
Click to expand...

I read through this message thread and some of what I wanted to write
about has already been written.

All OEMs, and has for some time, no longer include a Windows CD(s) or
DVD(s) in the pre-installed Windows system. OEMs used not to put a
partition on the hard drive to allow you to reinstall your system.
Since Microsoft's OEM license agreement prohibits OEM vendors (large to
small) providing a Windows CD or DVD with the system, some smaller OEMs
have or used to discount the OEM Windows CD.

I used to provide technical support for a software company that had a
rather large user base across the USA and Canada. Many individual
users, and companies, had to purchase a full retail version of Windows
when their Windows system needed to get re-installed. I remember many
Windows 2000 users started to run a Repair, per Microsoft's Help and
Support instructions, however, in the midst of the repair when it
prompted to insert the CD, there was no CD to insert. By that time the
Windows 2000 Repair had already deleted the system files that the next
step had to repair. Contacting the OEM vendor and Microsoft was totally
useless.

This is what lead me in to running Linux for some time -- no worry about
reinstalling with a valid license because Linux is free. However, Linux
is not for everyone.

Although the majority of OEM vendors do provide a hidden partition
containing the system installation or repair, the OEM vendor provided an
option to create a set or CD's or DVD's to allow you to create your own
media.

After purchasing my Gateway MX6920 laptop with Windows Media Center
Edition 2005 pre-installed, I contacted Gateway to see if I could
purchase the recovery media. To my surprise Gateway's response was: We
are sorry, Microsoft restricts us on selling recovery media that
contains the Windows operating system, however, you may restore your
system from the hidden partition on the hard drive. Unfortunately
Gateway's program to create or run the recovery screwed up on my laptop
and actually removed the hidden partition. I asked Gateway if there is
any way to get the partition back and they told me "no." I had to
purchase a full retail version of Windows XP Professional SP2. This is
why I am so against buying another OEM computer, however, there is
practically no easy way to get around from not buying a laptop from an OEM.

Microsoft's restrictive OEM and distributing licensing has sicken me
over the years where I can see why Microsoft is a monopolistic empire.
I even talked to Microsoft before about these OEM restrictions and a
Microsoft rep at the time told me 'just live with it, its Microsoft'.
That Microsoft's rep words has stayed with me for some time and I will
probably never forget them.
 
Making money through litigation is NOT productive (Even our legal eagle
poster would probably admit this).
Click to expand...

Not only would I admit it -- this is what I tell my clients, i.e. "Never
look at litigation as a profit center." The calculus for my clients is
this: if the value of the intellectual property at issue exceeds the cost
of the litigation, then it makes sense to sue. Otherwise, it does not.
 
"Microsoft's OEM license agreement prohibits OEM vendors (large to small)
providing a Windows CD or DVD"
That or similar is often stated.
But no one has ever posted a source.
A few misguided/misinformed techs have stated similar to this but it seems
another call often gets another answer with media shipped.

Microsoft gives the OEMs several options and to save every penny, they
naturally choose the cheapest option for their customers.
All Microsoft has done is give the OEMs options, each has its own cost
passed on to the customer.
However some customers want media instead of only a partition that can be
lost with the hard drive.
This has caused some OEMs to provide media with more models than the past
few years.

"All OEMs, and has for some time, no longer include a Windows CDs or DVDs in
the pre-installed Windows system."
This is simply FALSE.
Many OEMs have always given media with their systems over the past few
years.
Check a local OEM in your area and you will probably find one as well.

Purchasing a computer from an OEM, I can select based on the media I want
and have been able to for years:
Retail Windows media - Usually most expensive option.
Generic OEM media - Usually somewhat cheaper.
OEM branded recovery media - cheaper
Hidden partition - Usually the cheapest
 
"Microsoft's OEM license agreement prohibits OEM vendors (large to
small) providing a Windows CD or DVD"
That or similar is often stated.
But no one has ever posted a source.
Click to expand...

Because that would break the vendor's OEM agreement with Microsoft.
A few misguided/misinformed techs have stated similar to this but it
seems another call often gets another answer with media shipped.
Click to expand...

In my experience Gateway and Sony will not ship media, no matter what.
I tried for some time to get the media for my computers and there has
been no success.
Microsoft gives the OEMs several options and to save every penny, they
naturally choose the cheapest option for their customers.
All Microsoft has done is give the OEMs options, each has its own cost
passed on to the customer.
However some customers want media instead of only a partition that can
be lost with the hard drive.
This has caused some OEMs to provide media with more models than the
past few years.
Click to expand...

Possibly on higher end models. I know people that have bought low to
mid range computers and there is no Windows media included.
"All OEMs, and has for some time, no longer include a Windows CDs or
DVDs in the pre-installed Windows system."
This is simply FALSE.
Click to expand...

After reading that again, I should have wrote it in more general terms.
Many OEMs have always given media with their systems over the past few
years.
Check a local OEM in your area and you will probably find one as well.
Click to expand...

A small computer store (mom-n-pop shop), which excludes Best Buy and
alike retailers selling name brand OEM computers, will provide you an
OEM Windows CD or DVD, but the big OEM vendors may not.
 
Jupiter Jones said:
Purchasing a computer from an OEM, I can select based on the media I want
and have been able to for years:
Retail Windows media - Usually most expensive option.
Generic OEM media - Usually somewhat cheaper.
OEM branded recovery media - cheaper
Hidden partition - Usually the cheapest
Click to expand...

Nice run down of the options.

I would only add that for the last option there *should* always be the
option for user-created recovery discs. HP does this (or sends them to you
for a fee if you don't want to/can't create your own).

Apparently Sony does do, so I don't know what the OP's major issue is, other
than not being able to "repair." Most recovery software I've seen has this
capability, at least to some extent, but don't know specifics about Sony's.
Considering that even having a genuine retail installation disc is no
guarantee that you won't need to do a full re-install I really don't see it
as being too much of an issue. YMMV, IMHO, and all other disclaimers apply.
 
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