M
Mike T.
Have fun explaining why even amd now has thermal shutdown.
Because cooling fans fail. (duh) -Dave
Because cooling fans fail. (duh) -Dave
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K
kony
Have fun explaining why even amd now has thermal shutdown.
I already did in another post, to protect themselves from
incompetent system integrators/assemblers/etc. I'm sure
they don't mind having it as a feature on an spec sheet
either.
Have fun explaining why even amd now has thermal shutdown.
.... because you don't know how to made sound system design
decisions.
Have fun explaining why even amd now has thermal shutdown.
.... because even after being given a strong hint about how
to combat such things you still prefer to focus on events
that are outside a reasonable expectation, instead of taking
the prudent steps to combat them first.
Lying now.
I knew you'd try to grasp at straws. Reread my past posts,
I'd stated as much already.
Never ever could bullshit its way out of its predicament.
Read more carefully next time.
Have fun explaining why even amd now has thermal shutdown.
You overlooked what I wrote in previous posts, will you
overlook what I wrote above so I need repeat it again?
K
kony
On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 05:09:04 +1000, "Rod Speed"
So when faced with the fact that you can't keep a system
running and need a protection mechanism, you crash into an
endless loop?
Have fun explaining why even amd now has thermal shutdown.
Have fun explaining why even amd now has thermal shutdown.
Have fun explaining why even amd now has thermal shutdown.
Have fun explaining why even amd now has thermal shutdown.
So when faced with the fact that you can't keep a system
running and need a protection mechanism, you crash into an
endless loop?
K
kony
Because cooling fans fail. (duh) -Dave
No duh about it, if you have built systems that had CPU
'sink fan failures it was an incompetent build. If merely
citing 3rd party builds, avoid them if they haven't bothered
to set up the system properly for long term use.
In this day and age, a system with a fan failure before the
system is completely obsolete, is defective.
C
Conor
You've never worked in a proper company have you?WORK IN PROGRESS.....get it? 10 15 minuters... whatever its WORK IN
PROGRESS..... and hang around a video rendering machine and listen to the
lab SCREAM when a system goes down......
--
Conor
Sig under construction. Please check back when Duke Nukem Forever ships
and/or Windows Vista is released.
Cashback on online purchases:
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C
Conor
Because once every two to three years, a fan may pack up.Have fun explaining why even amd now has thermal shutdown.
--
Conor
Sig under construction. Please check back when Duke Nukem Forever ships
and/or Windows Vista is released.
Cashback on online purchases:
http://www.TopCashBack.co.uk/Conor/ref/index.htm
R
Rod Speed
Because cooling fans fail. (duh)
Yep, in spite of what kony keeps proclaiming.
R
Rod Speed
No duh about it, if you have built systems that had CPU
'sink fan failures it was an incompetent build. If merely
citing 3rd party builds, avoid them if they haven't bothered
to set up the system properly for long term use.
In this day and age, a system with a fan failure before
the system is completely obsolete, is defective.
Have fun explaining why even amd now has thermal shutdown.
R
Rod Speed
I already did in another post,
No you didnt. You just mindlessly waffled.
to protect themselves from incompetent
system integrators/assemblers/etc.
Anyone with a clue realises that its never going to be
feasible to ensure that the cpu fan wont fail, and when
thermal shutdown costs peanuts to implement, does that.
And lets not forget that amd was stupid enough to try
to do without thermal shutdown in the days when their
cpus generally werent supplied with boxed fans too.
I'm sure they don't mind having it as a feature on an spec sheet either.
Mindless stuff.
... because you don't know how to made sound system design decisions.
They did that just for me eh ? How odd that I
dont generally use their cpus for other reasons.
... because even after being given a strong hint about how
to combat such things you still prefer to focus on events
that are outside a reasonable expectation, instead of
taking the prudent steps to combat them first.
Wrong again. I actually choose to use intel cpus most of the
time for other reasons, like the fact that the chipset and cpu
are designed by the same operation, and that the pre prescott
cpus were nice and quiet and I insist on quiet systems that
dont have any extra fans over the cpu and PSU fans.
I knew you'd try to grasp at straws. Reread
my past posts, I'd stated as much already.
You're lying about what I ever said.
Read more carefully next time.
Never ever could bullshit its way out of its predicament.
You overlooked what I wrote in previous posts, will you
overlook what I wrote above so I need repeat it again?
Nope, it was always mindless pig ignorant shit.
Clearly amd actually has a clue NOW about
how to design cpus even if you dont.
R
Rod Speed
kony said:On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 05:09:04 +1000, "Rod Speed"
So when faced with the fact that you can't keep a system
running and need a protection mechanism, you crash into an
endless loop?
Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.
Fortunately no one was ever stupid enough to
let you have any say what so ever on cpu design.
R
Rod Speed
Conor said:Because once every two to three years, a fan may pack up.
Precisely, in spite of what kony mindlessly pig ignorantly claims.
K
kony
Precisely, in spite of what kony mindlessly pig ignorantly claims.
I suppose I should feel pity if you can't set a system up
and expect more than a couple years inbetween fan failures?
Good quality CPU 'sink fans implemented with moderate RPM do
not fail in two to three years. Just as one can buy a
crap power supply with fradulent ratings, one could buy a
crap fan with fradulent ratings, but when speaking of good
quality fans, they are rated for 50-100K hours and there is
no reasonable expectation that such a fan will fail within a
decade.
In the end it boils down to your pretending to know what
you're talking about vs actually having experience
implementing high quality fans. Instead of accepting that
you are not competent to select high quality components to
directly address the problem, you seek a safety net to limit
the damage your ineptitude causes.
There is one quite limited scenario where good quality fans
are more likely to fail prematurely (or rather, too great a
variable to predict with specs), in very extreme
environments such a desert sand, rock dust, certain
industrial chemical environments where even a filtration
system is ineffective or cost prohibitive. Such systems are
pulled out of service on regular intervals instead of left
running till the fans fail.
K
kony
Have fun explaining why even amd now has thermal shutdown.
You are example enough, you have no idea how to mitigate
system failures and minimize downtime.
R
Rod Speed
You are example enough, you have no idea how
to mitigate system failures and minimize downtime.
Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.
R
Rod Speed
I suppose I should feel pity if you can't set a system up
and expect more than a couple years inbetween fan failures?
Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.
Good quality CPU 'sink fans implemented with
moderate RPM do not fail in two to three years.
Have fun explaining why even amd now has thermal shutdown.
Just as one can buy a crap power supply with fradulent
ratings, one could buy a crap fan with fradulent ratings,
but when speaking of good quality fans, they are rated
for 50-100K hours and there is no reasonable
expectation that such a fan will fail within a decade.
Have fun explaining why even amd now has thermal shutdown.
In the end it boils down to your pretending to
know what you're talking about vs actually
having experience implementing high quality fans.
Have fun explaining why even amd now has thermal shutdown.
Instead of accepting that you are not competent to select
high quality components to directly address the problem,
Another pig ignorant lie. I choose to use the boxed fans thanks.
you seek a safety net to limit the damage your ineptitude causes.
Have fun explaining why even amd now has thermal shutdown.
There is one quite limited scenario where good quality
fans are more likely to fail prematurely (or rather, too
great a variable to predict with specs), in very extreme
environments such a desert sand, rock dust, certain
industrial chemical environments where even a filtration
system is ineffective or cost prohibitive. Such systems
are pulled out of service on regular intervals instead
of left running till the fans fail.
Have fun explaining why even amd now has thermal shutdown.
The reason is that it costs peanuts and only a fool would
actually be stupid enough to risk damage to the most
expensive component in the system. You qualify in spades.
K
kony
The reason is that it costs peanuts and only a fool would
actually be stupid enough to risk damage to the most
expensive component in the system. You qualify in spades.
Yes you're right on one count, that implementation wasn't at
great expense within the context of overall CPU design.
Stupidity would have to be your assumption that a properly
implemented cooling system is at significant risk of fan
failure. How many systems have you managed to turn into
unreliable time-bombs with this attitude? Apparently quite
a few else you'd not think the shutdown mechanism was
important.
T
Tony Hill
And that isnt that uncommon with the average user.
Sadly you're right, this is far too common.
Not if it fails in a way that sees the heatsink just
loose so it doesnt cool the cpu properly anymore.
That assumes it actually ends up reefing the cpu
out of the socket. That doesnt normally happen.
Actually it does happen quite often in my experience. By far the most
common cause of a heatsink coming lose from a CPU, not counting
improper installation, is when it does so in shipping (either via a
courier company or simply someone moving their computer). Most of the
time the end result is that the heatsink tears totally lose from the
motherboard and is sitting in the bottom of the case. The processor
often comes along with it because cold thermal paste is pretty darn
sticky stuff, more than sticky enough to yank the CPU out of the
socket.
Interesting side note: I haven't seen this happen often enough with
the new LGA-775 sockets to know how this would affect things vs. the
old pin-on-CPU style sockets. I suspect the new pin-on-motherboard
design would be better for surviving such a crash. Of course, the new
LGA-775 sockets also hold the CPU in place MUCH more securely, so the
chips probably wouldn't get yanked out in the first place.
Yeah, and avoided that bodgy approach the early
athlons had with a small easily damaged cpu top etc.
I never had any issues with the CPU top on AMD chips, but I didn't
much like how tough it was to clamp the heatsinks down. I was always
more worried about accidentally scratching up the system board with
the screwdriver used to mount the thing. AMD and Intel's newer
solutions are much better.
Time will tell, particularly with the latest amd cpus.
I've been using nVidia chipsets for about 4 years now, and in my books
their track record easily matches Intel's for reliability and drivers.
Even if I were buying an Intel CPU I would strongly consider one of
nVidia's chipsets for some of their features.
Thats arguable given what most do on their personal desktop systems.
It can make a lot more sense to spend that money on ram instead.
1GB of memory is cheap these days, no need to limit a system to any
less. Beyond 1GB the performance advantage for most users is VERY
small, much smaller than a faster CPU.
Thats overstating it with systems that arent used for gaming
or say crunching video files from one format to another.
They're about the only things where the benchmark performance
is even visible with most personal desktop systems now.
I think you're underestimating the average computer user. People DO
notice differences in performance. They might not *care* that much,
but that's not to say they won't notice it. This is true even for
fairly simple tasks like web browsing, e-mail, word processing, etc.
Note that when I mention the 20% number I'm talking about actual
application performance, not some synthetic CPU benchmark or anything
like that. Often times it takes much more than a 20% improvement in
CPU performance to equal a 20% improvement in overall system
performance.
R
Rod Speed
1GB of memory is cheap these days, no need to limit a system
to any less. Beyond 1GB the performance advantage for most
users is VERY small, much smaller than a faster CPU.
Wrong with the choice between single and dual core
cpus with what most do on their personal desktop
systems apart from games and transcoding.
I think you're underestimating the average computer user.
Nope.
People DO notice differences in performance.
No they dont with 20% in cpu benchmarks.
They might not *care* that much, but that's not to say
they won't notice it. This is true even for fairly simple
tasks like web browsing, e-mail, word processing, etc.
Oh bullshit with 20% in the cpu benchmark the only
difference between two otherwise identical systems.
Note that when I mention the 20% number I'm talking about
actual application performance, not some synthetic CPU
benchmark or anything like that. Often times it takes much
more than a 20% improvement in CPU performance to equal
a 20% improvement in overall system performance.
We were clearly discussing that dual core cpu question.
R
Rod Speed
Yes you're right on one count, that implementation wasn't
at great expense within the context of overall CPU design.
Peanuts, like I said.
Stupidity would have to be your assumption that a properly
implemented cooling system is at significant risk of fan failure.
Tell amd, dont be too surprised when they laugh in your face.
How many systems have you managed to turn
into unreliable time-bombs with this attitude?
None, zero, nada, ziltch.
Apparently quite a few else you'd not think
the shutdown mechanism was important.
Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.
K
kony
None, zero, nada, ziltch.
Then you are your own evidence as to why it doesn't matter
as much as the proper cooling components, that they are the
priority.