Which Anti Virus Works Best With Vista

  • Thread starter Thread starter Brandon Mahler
  • Start date Start date
I added the last part for the benefit of the other readers, since you seem
to have a good balanced head on your shoulders.

Yeah, I rarely bash as well, if ever. I know what it takes to make one of
these programs work with all the situations they face, so I realize that
every application or tool is going to have an issue now and then, and that
patches will, not might, be required for long term survivability. I also
believe that you never put full faith in a product if you are on a "trial"
version, because you are not going to get all the support and patches that
are guaranteed.

Cheers

ShadoShryke
(AKA James Walker)
 
ShadoShryke said:
You do realize that this response, did less for your cause.

He was talking about the "time of play" parental controls. His comments
were all towards that, not adult content, but I can understand your
confusion.
Click to expand...
So by "adult controls" you're saying he meant parental control for game
playing time, so you're attacking me ("did less for your cause"?) for not
having a clue what he's talking about, which still makes no sense because I
had hardly played for 5 minutes before TrendMicro disconnected the game.
No worries. You want a "set and forget" system, not a "I control the
features" AV. That was what Norton 360 and G-Data have gone in the
direction of.
Click to expand...
Yes. It's one thing if it's a server product a techie guy is supposed to
manage (where some good setup instructions should be provided anyhow) or if
there's advanced settings to make it be more particular, but you don't make
a product for an end user home system which by default blocks products they
want to allow. I couldn't even find a setting that could make it work. If
it works at all, it's very user unfriendly.
McAfee did that as well and unfortunately sacrificed some security in the
process. They are working hard to get that fixed, and I hope that they
manage because competition in the market is good for everyone.

Cheers!

ShadoShyrke
(AKA James Walker)
Click to expand...
The internet by nature is unsecure. If someone really wants to break into
or bring down your system they'll find a way. The only way to truly be
secure is to get all ISPs to use the more secure protocols, which would
require a worldwide effort and is not likely to happen anytime soon. AV
programs should lock down your PC as much as possible, but their first
priority is to be user friendly. As far as I've seen, McAfee has done a
sufficient job at virus protection as well as an excellent job of not
hassling end users with things they shouldn't need to know about and not
breaking their other programs. I have seen McAfee forums and their biggest
issue seems to be the problems with pushing new versions to desktops on a
domain, which is a techie problem and doesn't concern end users.
 
If you're suggesting my OS has settings which would cause a problem with my
game, you're clueless, since I already said the game works just fine since I
uninstalled TrendMicro.
If by adult controls you mean TrendMicro has parental controls which timeout
games after a very short time by default, I didn't see anything when I
checked it's configuration trying to get it to work, and it seems a bit
ridiculous to me that such a thing would be enabled by default.
"blaming trend makes no sense"? What would you blame when my game gets a
message "connection terminated" after a few minutes of playing, and works
just fine after uninstalling your TrendMicro program? Your defense of this
software is what makes no sense. It has nothing to do with a screen saver,
and it's not a trial program. You can download the program yourself and see
how TrendMicro terminates it. I already told you the name of the program
and the name of the site it's connecting to. The program is a free download
and the game on the site is free to play.

What a very strange response. I didn't notice any "adult controls" in
TrendMicro Internet Security and I don't know why they would apply. It's
not an "adult" game. It's a MUD. I was running MudMaster 2K6, connecting
to www.achaea.com. I shouldn't have any "adult" restrictions turned on
unless you're saying it's a feature of TrendMicro and it treats everyone
like a child by default, and I wouldn't need to take it up with my parents
since I've been an adult for many years. Yes the game is configured
correctly, it works just fine without TrendMicro installed. Apparently
Click to expand...
I have no idea what your settings are. I offered an option that you might
not
have known about. If you're running Vista, it also has a ton of adult
controls
that limit things. But blaming trend for this problem makes no sense since
it
sounds like a configuration problem somewhere.
TrendMicro was not configured correctly which is what makes it a really bad
program. It cut off my game without warning even with the game program in
it's "trusted programs" list and gave me no indication of how to configure
it to work. It's like someone getting a new OS and having to figure out
they need to change a registry key before they can view their picture
files.
Click to expand...
You sure it wasn't a screen saver doing the killing ? I watch my screen
saver
kick in all the time on SOME games. For some reason, I guess it just doesn't
tell the machine that something's running.
The 'trusted program' shouldn't have a thing to do with killing it's
operation
after x minutes. That's a 'Trial annoyware' tactic. Or something configured
wrong.
All trusted does is IGNORE that program.
 
Eric said:
If you're suggesting my OS has settings which would cause a problem with
my game, you're clueless, since I already said the game works just fine
since I uninstalled TrendMicro.
If by adult controls you mean TrendMicro has parental controls which
timeout games after a very short time by default, I didn't see anything
when I checked it's configuration trying to get it to work, and it seems a
bit ridiculous to me that such a thing would be enabled by default.
"blaming trend makes no sense"? What would you blame when my game gets a
message "connection terminated" after a few minutes of playing, and works
just fine after uninstalling your TrendMicro program? Your defense of
this software is what makes no sense. It has nothing to do with a screen
saver, and it's not a trial program. You can download the program
yourself and see how TrendMicro terminates it. I already told you the
name of the program and the name of the site it's connecting to. The
program is a free download and the game on the site is free to play.


I have no idea what your settings are. I offered an option that you might
not
have known about. If you're running Vista, it also has a ton of adult
controls
that limit things. But blaming trend for this problem makes no sense since
it
sounds like a configuration problem somewhere.

You sure it wasn't a screen saver doing the killing ? I watch my screen
saver
kick in all the time on SOME games. For some reason, I guess it just
doesn't
tell the machine that something's running.
The 'trusted program' shouldn't have a thing to do with killing it's
operation
after x minutes. That's a 'Trial annoyware' tactic. Or something
configured
wrong.
All trusted does is IGNORE that program.
Click to expand...
Have been enjoying Microsoft Security Essentials BETA since it was made
available a few days ago. Plays well on Vista for me.
Previously used Avast Free version on Vista. Rumour is that Avast Free
version will soon be no more. I expect to stay with MSE once it goes to a
released version
 
None of my comments have been attacking you, I was just letting you know
that you snapped back at something that another person just simply said.
Both of you made wrong assumptions and it was about to turn into something
that was not intended.

Nor am I attacking McAfee, as they are a respectable company. They are not
the worst, they just don't rate in the best. If I have the choice and
chance to buy the best, then I will go for that. If I am comfortable with
a lower portion of the upper grade, then I go with that.

Each person makes their own choices based on their acceptance of the risks
involved. It is their right to make their own choice, and I just like to
pass on simple facts based on repeatable test results.

Yes, I have done my own testing on intentionally infesting machines with
viruses and trojan downloaders. McAfee is simpler in some cases, but in my
tests since 2005, McAfee has only rated at 68-72% efficiency because of it's
approach to active scan and updating. This is like putting a chain lock on
your door, it makes you feel safer, but is not necessarily as safe as a
deadbolt. Most home users don't have to worry about a hacker directly
attacking them, they need to worry about self prolifferating malware/viruses
that autosense for open ports and tag in.

I am a tech, my wife is not. She likes a 90% or better system with simple
controls. I gave her the choice to pick the one that she wanted on her
laptop two years ago. Her choice ended up being Norton 360 because it
handled it all behind the scenes and gives her an unobtrusive warning when
needed. She is using Vista Ultimate on an Acer Turion 64X2 laptop. We
added the Add-On pack (free) from Symantec to add protection features
against spam to her Outlook (she pulls her yahoo, hotmail and roadrunner
mail in to the one app so she doesn't have to open individual pages).

All instructions for working all applications now are in the Help. They
don't put manuals in with most software now, because the manual is on the
computer as soon as it installs. They pay writers to write them so that
they can be easy to use and understand by the average user.

Life is unsecure by nature. As they taught us in security training, "a lock
only keeps an generally honest person honest". This is obvious to anyone
that understands human nature. An unnecessary point in this discussion.

One of my 1Sgts always said " If your are going to go, go hard. Inertial
alone will carry you through most adervities in life." We all knew he meant
to go fully committed, not at the highest speed possible. There is always a
point of caution to be taken in everything, that way you have the chance to
correct errors in course as needed.

With that, since this seems to be a pointless "argument" that is off course
from the original responses and question (Which AntiVirus works Best with
Vista), I will let people read my statements and my background, and let you
carry on with your choices.

Have a great day!

ShadoShryke
(AKA James Walker)
 
Yep,

Rumor has been out for over a year that Avast is looking at no longer doing
the long term Free version. They have been working on bringing their
products up to par with the leaders in the securities industry, and they now
have enough of a following to support charging for what they gave away free.

Most companies, when they get big enough, cannot survive if they provide
their most popular item free for long periods of time.

As for the Microsoft Essentials, that has been one of the fun things to
watch over the past few years as an MS Partner Program member. They have
provided a great alternative and I am hoping that they keep with it so that
it reaches the upper group of competitors within the next couple of years.
1care proved to be a good step, even though the betas were a little rough
(and broke other securities software installs). Forefront Security caught
on with many companies running on windows 2003 servers, and now the
Essentials group of products is promising to bring a good Security program
to the masses.

ShadoShryke
(AKA James Walker)
 
Simply, if the securities blocks all games or programs from using a feature
after adjusting settings, you blame the securities program. If it only
blocks one program, you blame the publisher of the program.

Atari put out a game with a bad security code on the CD. This caused the
game to not read in a group of CD/DVD-RWs (just RWs). Atari admitted their
error and stopped using that copyright security script and had a new one
worked up. A number of games delayed for a bit.

It was Atari's fault, not the CD/DVD OEM's fault.

That is all he was saying.

ShadoShryke
(AKA James Walker)
 
Though I respect your opinion, a recommendation like this is a bit
overzealous.

Symantec is trusted by many large organizations, and has been trusted for
years. Norton had an issue with Norton Internet Securities 2002 as systems
and architecture was changing over, and that was resolved with a
downloadable install/patch. However, NAV has kept about a 90%+ rate of
catching viruses and securing systems. The only regular complaint was it's
system resource footprint, but it was the only one that was doing a solid
job of active scanning at tht time.

Now, many other products are coming up and showing themselves. Until the
last couple of years, NOD32 was not very apparent to the majority of the
market, and most of their claim to fame has been by their own postings and
advertisment. I want to see if they stay in the top 10 with group that
focus on systems security for more than a couple of years. So far, only
Kapersky, TrendMicro, McAfee and Symantec/Norton have done that for more
than 3 years. I am looking forward to seeing how these new groups like
G-Data (who's 2010 AV is looking promising), and Microsoft (Security
Essentials) do in the market.

Heck, the most attacked computers in the world are the US Federal systems,
and they use Symantec.

Now, it is up to each person to find what they are most comfortable with, by
their own risk assessment. Give them options, give them facts, tell them
why you don't like something, but recommending that people stay away from a
product line when you have an MVP tag could get a person nailed for slander.

I don't know if you can afford it, but I can't. I don't want to make up
for a business's assessed losses, not with lawyers today.

eeeesh....

ShadoShryke
(AKA James Walker)
 
whs,

Once again, I appreciate your look at things. Balanced is the best,
especially as a professional.

I understand why some people feel this way, but most of the anti-McAfee and
Norton/Symantec came from the gaming crowds from 2001 to 2005. A lot of
companies jumped on the MMO and Online bandwagon to get in on the new craze,
and did not account for increased security needs as the internet use and
cross platform gaming kicked to a high in record time.

Symantec and McAfee have been industry leaders since the early 90s and
continue to be. They have both bounced back and forth in the top 10 most
secure software lists, but neither have dropped completely out. Now, there
are lots of free solutions, trying to make a name so that they can start
charging to support their work, but many of them have holes that some people
may never encounter, while others will be dreading for the rest of their
lives.

On AOL, I remember when AOL was the service to have become it had more than
Prodigy and was more reliable than CompuServe. Then they grew too fast,
tried to put to much in and started charging for everything. Most of the
people like myself, that used them when they were still a fancy BBS and not
a ISP, left them during that time. Now they have found balance again in a
changed world, but some people are stuck in the past.

Of course, they do not identify WHAT AOL service, ISP, Messenger, or
Toolbar. Personally, I don't use any add-in toolbar systems because of the
resources and openings they leave. They were originally made for older
browsers that did not have a lot of features, and now most of those features
are in the browsers and the bars are just advertisement tools for the
originating publisher.

And yes, the majority of Vista complaints on the net were by those that did
not like the fact that they could not do the pirating of that OS, or that
did not like change. I got to participate in an experiement based on the
Mojave experience by MS and watched more people that "hated Vista" walk out
with copies of Vista by the end. They had heard all the hype and blew it
off, and even repeated how bad it was, until they sat for 10-30 minutes and
messed with it themselves.

Each person needs to look at what is out there, go by current facts and long
term proof and then make a decision based on that.

ShadoShryke
(AKA James Walker)
 
15 years ago. 1994. The most trusted name in AV solutions was Norton AV.
SystemWorks was in direct competition with PCTools, and it was all a
personal preference thing for users. McAfee was hitting the ground running,
but was not highly recognized until 1996. BitDefender and a couple of
others were out there, and given nods of respect because they had good
products.

1998, Norton AV and Black Ice took the top ratings of reliability against
threats in 5 different magazines, including MaximumPC. Norton IS was rated
the best Internet Security package, with McAfee hitting right behind it,
almost tied.

End of 2002/Beginning of 2003, Norton IS 2001 was not fully functional with
the new XP Pro security fix patches. Norton releases the removal tool, and
provides a fully functional download to fix the issue. Microsoft and
Norton acknowledge the clash. McAfee gets a larger attention for 2 years.
Norton decides to keep the uninstall tool for those that chose to not
upgrade to another version of their system. McAfee and other expect that
their customers will keep coming back.

2003 Kapersky gets new notice, AVG free is becoming the most popular
download, along with Adaware and Spybot S&D. Most AVG users find that they
need to use multiple tools to keep safe. Two separate labs, and Maximum PC
run a test on AVG. Though unintrusive to most users, AVG proves to miss
12-28% of the known virus and malware. Running Bit Defender, McAfee and NAV
after AVG shows that all catch what AVG missed.

2004 Panda is making news, along with a couple of others. They don't stay
in the limelite very long due to issues with long term reliability.

Bit Defender approaches the Gamer's concerns with planning a Gamer Mode, now
found in their products.

So, here is the breakdown as I see it.

Gamers - get Bit Defener or run with AVG with a backed up drive image
Office and home users that are not playing lots of online games, and that
want the longest proven solutions-- chose Norton/Symantec, McAfee, Bit
Defender, or the solution that tickles your happy places.

ShadoShryke
(AKA James Walker)
 
CA eTrust AV had this too, if you took the link from the Microsoft Security
Solutions Suggestions site (linked earlier in this thread cluster).

I think now they are only 3-6 months free, and Avast is now heading towards
charging too. Companies in doing business in America can only give out free
for so long before it impacts their production or products.

ShadoShryke
(AKA James Walker)
 
IF TrendMicro works at all, the problem is it doesn't work at all by
default. It disconnected an internet game from it's server without asking
me or telling me why. I couldn't find anything in the configuration to fix
it, and I shouldn't have to. Where's the pop up window warning me that it
found a problem and telling me why it thinks I should stop playing? I
shouldn't have to find a configuration page to turn ON that bell/whistle.

Which "website inhabited by kids" are you referring to? The game is hosted
by a reputable company. If you're saying you don't play interactive games
because it allows some access to your PC from anyone who can hack the game
server, that's your problem. If you live with that sort of fear, don't
connect to the internet at all because a sophisticated enough hacker could
be able to find a way to access any connected machine.

When you said, "The 'trusted program' shouldn't have a thing to do with
killing it's operation after x minutes. That's a 'Trial annoyware' tactic.
Or something configured wrong.", I thought you were saying the program
getting blocked was a trial program. Now you're talking about a difference
with the AV program because it's a trial version? The TrendMicro was a
trial program in that I got a free subscription for updates which was only
good for 6 months. Aside from that I didn't think there were other
versions.


If you're suggesting my OS has settings which would cause a problem with my
game, you're clueless, since I already said the game works just fine since
I
uninstalled TrendMicro.
If by adult controls you mean TrendMicro has parental controls which
timeout
games after a very short time by default, I didn't see anything when I
checked it's configuration trying to get it to work, and it seems a bit
ridiculous to me that such a thing would be enabled by default.
"blaming trend makes no sense"? What would you blame when my game gets a
message "connection terminated" after a few minutes of playing, and works
just fine after uninstalling your TrendMicro program? Your defense of this
software is what makes no sense. It has nothing to do with a screen saver,
Click to expand...

I used Trend for more than 10 years. I'd say I know it pretty well. This
timing
out thing has to be a configuration problem. That's the end of it.
and it's not a trial program. You can download the program yourself and
see
Click to expand...
doesn't matter Trends trial is fully functional for the length of the trial
as
is MOST virus software. Cripple ware is pretty much the realm of useless
software.
how TrendMicro terminates it. I already told you the name of the program
and the name of the site it's connecting to. The program is a free
download
and the game on the site is free to play.
Click to expand...
Browsing KNOWN web pages is about my stretch. I have every bit of paranoia
software I own enabled. I don't look for problems.
And definitely not going to visit a web site inhabited by kids trying to
make a
name for themselves.

Hmm mm.. That just might be why trend is shutting down after x minutes.
You've sat on the SAME ISP long enough for the kiddies to locate you, and
attack. And Trend noticed it and put up a block. IOW Trend did what it was
intended to. If you want to go further, turn on all of the warnings for
everything trend blocks. Can be EXTREMELY annoying, but for a novice with
the
program, until you RECOGNIZE a program asking for access, you should let
Trend
do it's job. Just get ready for constant warnings for a week or two until
you
know what's happening.

Here's what is missing from your post. Trend doesn't lock you out from the
web
after x minutes. It only locks you out of that game after x minutes. You see
what I'm saying ? Trends working, you just don't know WHY it doesn't like
that
online game. Turning on all of Trends bells and whistles, and examining the
firewall logs for that time period should tell you EXACTLY why it blocked
access to that game. Learning trend can take some effort on your part.
 
ShadoShryke said:
CA eTrust AV had this too, if you took the link from the Microsoft
Security Solutions Suggestions site (linked earlier in this thread
cluster).

I think now they are only 3-6 months free, and Avast is now heading
towards charging too.
Click to expand...
 
Symantec and McAfee have been industry leaders since the early 90s and
continue to be.
Click to expand...

But their packages are resource hogging, system slowing, pigs. That's
why most smart folks use something else.
And yes, the majority of Vista complaints on the net were by those that did
not like the fact that they could not do the pirating of that OS, or that
did not like change.
Click to expand...

Nonsense. It provides no improvements over XP, while lacking many of
its feature, and while providing significantly less performance. It's
also bug ridden, compatible with far less hardware, and requires
significantly more system power to operate at the same speed.

That's why people don't like it.
 
Rumor has been out for over a year that Avast is looking at no longer doing
the long term Free version. They have been working on bringing their
products up to par with the leaders in the securities industry, and they now
have enough of a following to support charging for what they gave away free.
Click to expand...


Any facts, as opposed to unsubstantiated rumors? I see no evidence of
Avast doing this. Their software still comes with a one-year license
for non-comercial use.
 
I think the hype about Norton and AOL is similar as some people's hype
about Vista. I usually comes from people who have not used the products
and go by hearsay. The result you have seen with the Mojave project that
MS launched last year. Those dummies really had egg all over their face.
Click to expand...


Hi, I cannot comment on AOL, but I sure know all about Norton. It is just
not the best thing around. Try phoning their customer support, 75% of the
time you will be told to "reinstall" either Windows or Norton. Their
product is just not that good.
Cheers

Spook
(e-mail address removed)
 
Brandon Mahler said:
Just wondering
Click to expand...

On this topic of AV programs, I wonder if we could get away from the
suggestions of free programs like Avast and the bashing of Norton/McAfee and
ask a more specific question.
I got an ad for a software called Vipre Enterprise. Does anyone have any
experience with or information about this product? The ad claims to be
better than "Symantec, McAfee, TrendMicro, or whatever antivirus program
you're using".
 
whs said:
Eric, I always check on the professional comparison websites. If a
product is that great, it will appear there. Here is one example:
'AV-Comparatives - Independent Tests of Anti-Virus Software - Welcome to
AV-Comparatives.org' (http://www.av-comparatives.org/index.php)
Click to expand...

That tells me little to nothing. That site doesn't appear to mention Vipre
Enterprise, so either that site sucks, that product sucks, that site just
didn't bother to test this particular software, or perhaps the software is
new and hasn't been tested by such sites yet.
Now back to the original question. Does anyone have any experience with or
knowledge about a product called Vipre Enterprise, which is apparently an AV
program, from Sunbelt Software?
 
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