Which Anti Virus Works Best With Vista

  • Thread starter Thread starter Brandon Mahler
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I have been using Norton/Symantec since version 3 (1992) on DOS. I have
used CA, McAfee, and Kapersky as well. All fully licensed and purchased
versions.

I have tested many free and share versions as well including Avast.

In 2001-2002, the version most commonly packaged with computers (as a 90 day
trial) was Norton AV. McAfee had a great product then as well. Yet new
issues with operating system updates, and system resource demand, along with
internet usage (MMOs kicked off in a serious explosion) left companies both
on the security side and on the software publisher side, trying to catch up.

In 2004, Norton's IS and AV both took the top rating on three of the top
securities reviewers rating charts, with McAfee, TrendMicro and CA all
showing up. Kapersky showed up in the top 10 the next year, climbing into
the top 5 quickly as they moved to compete with the top home and enterprise
market holders.

Norton/Symantec has held the top spot for 5 years running, on more than one
review register, and Microsoft finally moved into the top 10. And Symantec
(Norton) got rave reviews from the ISS Organization for greatly turning
around their resource usage and still keeping a solid product in the past
two years.

I have been supporting computers for home and business (especially military
barraks) for 12 years now, and I watched the ebb and flow during that time.
I have seen people have problems more because they refused to pay for update
services and tried to get away with using freeware/shareware/trialware
versions or just warez versions. I have watched McAfee miss things that
Norton/Symantec caught. I have seen the same thing in the other direction,
and I have seen people using Norton IS and Adaware and other programs that
compete with each other and cause themselves grief without knowning it.

I feel that if you pick one of the regular top 5 AV, stay away from
freeware, get a fully licensed version and keep it and your system
maintained, you will find that you will be happy and content.

Fun sayings for this line of thought:
Putting a brush grill on the front of your car does no good if you run into
walls.
Just because your AV does not tell you it found a virus or malware on your
system does not mean that there is a guarantee that you did not bring one
home.
Throwing stones at elephants only guarantees that you might get trampled
when they get mad enough. (for the MVP that posted the feelings without the
facts)

ShadoShryke
(AKA James Walker)
15 years of Computer Support (home and business)
MSPP Registered, A+ Cert, MS Office Cert, BSIT: Information Systems Security


Eric said:
While I agree Norton is likely the worst AV product because everyone I've
ever known who used a Norton product had problems with it, I've never
known anyone who had problems with McAfee and would like to know why you
hate it so much and who appointed you MVP. They should not be giving MVP
titles to anyone who would post such biased slander with no references to
support your point of view.
Click to expand...
 
ShadoShryke said:
There are a number of companies/organizations that review AV programs for
overall efficiency, reliability, memory use, guarantees and cost.

You might find it interesting that Norton and TrendMicro have been in the
top three for 4-5 years running now. Microsoft made it into the top 10
this past year with One Live Care this past year on two registers. McAfee
has dropped to number 5 or lower on 4 different registers in the past two
years.
Click to expand...
TrendMicro sucks.
My new laptop from Best Buy came with TrendMicro Internet Security installed
(with a free 6 month subscription, after that you pay for updates).
I tried to play a game on the internet and it let me play for a few minutes
then disconnected me. I added the game program to it's "trusted programs"
and it still disconnected me. I uninstalled it and installed McAfee
(provided at no extra cost from my ISP) and haven't had any issues since.

I fortunately haven't had to mess with any Norton software lately but it's
still the number one answer when you ask a techie "what AV program is most
likely to conflict with other programs?" AV programs are useless if they're
constantly asking the user what they should allow or if they're preventing a
program you want to run from running properly.
 
Um,

You do understand that I am a techie. I make my living on supporting both
home and corporate users and environments.

Something to note, TrendMicro focuses on business, not home. Norton and
Symantec are the same, Norton is their home product and Symantec Securities
is how they market their business products.

Most of the techies that I work with in the industry do not talk down
Norton's. The people that talk down Norton's are mainly gamers and game
companies. Yet, since the 2003 versions, I have not seen the issues that
most of those companies and gamers complain about. In testing on 16
different machine configurations, WoW, Everquest2, Lineage2, Command and
Conquer, Age of Empires 2 & 3, Two Worlds, and even Maple Story had no
issues. Game that had issues: City of Heroes, who's publisher knew there
was a script change needed but prefered to tell users to turn off their AV
instead of fixing their script. It saved them programming cost.

TrendMicro does not suck, it just did not suit your needs and your specific
setup.

ShadoShryke
(AKA James Walker)
15 years of Computer Support (home and business)
MSPP Registered, A+ Cert, MS Office Cert, BSIT: Information Systems Security
 
If TrendMicro doesn't "focus on home", they should tell Best Buy to stop
installing it on new PCs with Vista Home Premium.
It does suck because it disconnected my "trusted" program from the internet.
If your coffee maker makes coffee but explodes if you use columbian beans
while no other coffee maker does, it sucks as a product even if you
personally never use columbian beans so you haven't blown it up yet.

Again I said "I fortunately haven't had to work with Norton products
lately", so hopefully for their sake it doesn't suck anymore, but anyone who
has supported them for the past 2 decades is still skeptical. The last time
I heard of someone running Norton it was conflicting with another program.
We got new PCs for work from IBM with Norton installed. We uninstalled it
and installed McAfee.
 
"but anyone who has supported them for the past 2 decades is still
skeptical"
Click to expand...

This is an obvious exaggeration, since that would mean from 1989 to today,
and until 2000, all of the successful tech that I knew had Norton (Symantec)
on the top of their list as the best.
It does suck because it disconnected my "trusted" program from the
internet. If your coffee maker makes coffee but explodes if you use
columbian beans while no other coffee maker does, it sucks as a product
even if you personally never use columbian beans so you haven't blown it
up yet.
Click to expand...

But it did not "blow up", another obvious exaggeration, because it did not
freeze up and lock up your computer, or fail use as a whole. Instead it
gummed up on that specific program and only restricted that program.

It occurs to me that maybe it found another security risk with that program
that McAfee did not catch. Or maybe, as with Cryptic Studios, the software
producer had something in their script that conflicts with something that
Trend settings protect. Or maybe that program needed an additional porting
that you did not catch and that the software publisher did not supply to
Trend Micro. This happens all the time.

In the current PC market, there is no way to get completely seamless
operations with ever producers driver, scripts or program at the same time.
You can get close if intercompany relations and communications are good, but
not perfect.

Again, I just passed on facts, and then said what I prefer to use, and what
I have used. Each of my posts have been mainly experience and facts. I
am not making a plug or pledge for anyone, just offering information based
on reproducable research and testing.

ShadoShyrke
(AKA James Walker)
 
ShadoShryke said:
This is an obvious exaggeration, since that would mean from 1989 to today,
and until 2000, all of the successful tech that I knew had Norton
(Symantec) on the top of their list as the best.
Click to expand...
I guess you didn't know many techs then. I remember tons of conflicts with
Norton software in the early 1990s and I know plenty of tech guys who hate
it from back then too.
But it did not "blow up", another obvious exaggeration, because it did not
freeze up and lock up your computer, or fail use as a whole. Instead it
gummed up on that specific program and only restricted that program.

It occurs to me that maybe it found another security risk with that
program that McAfee did not catch. Or maybe, as with Cryptic Studios, the
software producer had something in their script that conflicts with
something that Trend settings protect. Or maybe that program needed an
additional porting that you did not catch and that the software publisher
did not supply to Trend Micro. This happens all the time.

In the current PC market, there is no way to get completely seamless
operations with ever producers driver, scripts or program at the same
time. You can get close if intercompany relations and communications are
good, but not perfect.
Click to expand...
So, replace explode with vomit. It didn't cease to function. It just
didn't allow any usable results. If other coffee makers are producing rich
coffee with columbian beans and yours is producing sludge, it's a bad
product. I added my program to it's trusted programs listed and it stopped
my program from working! What more does it want?? I didn't see any message
as to why it stopped working. I just got a message in my program
"connection terminated", and uninstalling TrendMicro fixed it. It shouldn't
be disconnecting a trusted program for any reason. At most if it doesn't
like what my program does there should be an unobtrusive notification icon
informing me that it found an issue which could lead me to a log of why it
thinks my program shouldn't have internet access and an option to disable it
myself.
 
ShadoShryke said:
To support my assertions on the possibilities of McAfee not paying
attention or catching something, please look over this information from
ICSA
http://www.icsalabs.com/icsa/topic.php?tid=d3a8$95695e0b-40700fe6$8dd1-8fc093ea

This has gone on for three years now with McAfee. The user interface is
easier that some other AVs and Security software, but the actually
effectiveness of the work done has to be up to par.

ShadoShyrke
(AKA James Walker)
Click to expand...
That link means nothing to me. It says McAfee failed some test from a
division of Verizon with no reason given. The conclusion is Verizon hates
McAfee for some unknown reason, though according to their other page
(http://www.icsalabs.com/icsa/product.php?tid=dfgdf$gdhkkjk-kkkk) they
certified it anyway?
I don't see anywhere that says what ICSA stands for either.
If you're trying to debate, try something more than "some unknown and likely
biased company claims your product failed a test".
 
I ran Norton up until the 2002 versions (home products). After that there
were just tooooo many problems on my computers, and on computers I repaired
for others.

I find it amusing that Norton was the very FIRST company that had to supply
a dedicated web download to remove their defective products!
 
I guess you did not bother to read the About Us section of that site:

About Us
For over a decade, ICSA Labs, an independent division of Verizon Business,
has been the security industry's central authority for research,
intelligence, and certification testing of products. ICSA Labs sets
standards for information security products and certifies over 95% of the
installed base of anti-virus, firewall, IPSec VPN, cryptography, SSL VPN,
network IPS, anti-spyware and PC firewall products commonly deployed in the
world today.


What this shows is that McAfee failed the monthly Virus Detection test that
the lab runs: i.e. it did not detect all of the virus/malware that are
required for a ICSA certificate, which means that a number of organizations,
including state and federal, will not trust it.

For US Army Signal Corps, McAfee use to be the most trusted. Not in the
last 5 years though.

It seems that you are just arguing and not debating. You have given no
basis for your reasoning other than word of mouth suppositions because you
could not work one program's network connection.

I can appreciate your own opinion, but that is most of what it seems you are
passing on. As you have proven, I could pass you links with reviews from
independent labs all over the world, and probably even he ISSA, and you
would stick to your guns over one program. That is your right and your
choice.

Personally, I will stick with what I know from a very diverse experience
over the past 25 years and from the techs and developers that I work with on
a daily basis.

Have a great weekend.

ShadoShyrke
(AKA James Walker)
 
TrendMicro sucks.
My new laptop from Best Buy came with TrendMicro Internet Security
installed
(with a free 6 month subscription, after that you pay for updates).
I tried to play a game on the internet and it let me play for a few minutes
then disconnected me. I added the game program to it's "trusted programs"
and it still disconnected me. I uninstalled it and installed McAfee
(provided at no extra cost from my ISP) and haven't had any issues since.
Click to expand...
Did you have it configured correctly ? Trend & the game. That doesn't sound
like normal operation with trend. But it does sound like a configuration
setting of adult controls with Trend. If you don't have access to those
controls, you should probably take it up with your parents.
There IS a Timer setting for games in the adult controls section. A whole
slew
of adult controls. If the adult controls are on, that sounds like SOP.

What a very strange response. I didn't notice any "adult controls" in
TrendMicro Internet Security and I don't know why they would apply. It's
not an "adult" game. It's a MUD. I was running MudMaster 2K6, connecting
to www.achaea.com. I shouldn't have any "adult" restrictions turned on
unless you're saying it's a feature of TrendMicro and it treats everyone
like a child by default, and I wouldn't need to take it up with my parents
since I've been an adult for many years. Yes the game is configured
correctly, it works just fine without TrendMicro installed. Apparently
TrendMicro was not configured correctly which is what makes it a really bad
program. It cut off my game without warning even with the game program in
it's "trusted programs" list and gave me no indication of how to configure
it to work. It's like someone getting a new OS and having to figure out
they need to change a registry key before they can view their picture files.
 
Not that Eric needs defending on this, but I have seen this with NAV and
City of Heroes a few times. Over the past few years, the 5 most secure AVs
(as rate by cnet, ICSA, and PCWorld) have occasionally caused intermittent
issues with online games. This generally has to do with the scripts of the
client software for the game, and the timeouts generated for scans by the
active security.

This is not a parental control issue, but can be found randomly between
certain online games that have a large bandwidth footprint. This can also
be found with some VPN software as well. The trunk/channel to the hosting
server just reads with extra timeouts because the active scan is checking a
file or transmission.

I am more carefull about this because I watched a friend get hits on his AV
while playing EQ that identified the virus. We followed the SOE Support
directions and tried turning the AV off and joined in and, low and behold,
his computer was hit with that virus just after the test. We told SOE, and
they claimed no responsibility for any machine connected to their network,
after the support guy said that we were guaranteed that it was just a false
warning.

Since then I would prefer to let the program be blocked and find another
solution (another application) that I like, and not modify my security for a
single program.

ShadoShyrke
(AKA James Walker)



TrendMicro sucks.
My new laptop from Best Buy came with TrendMicro Internet Security
installed
(with a free 6 month subscription, after that you pay for updates).
I tried to play a game on the internet and it let me play for a few minutes
then disconnected me. I added the game program to it's "trusted programs"
and it still disconnected me. I uninstalled it and installed McAfee
(provided at no extra cost from my ISP) and haven't had any issues since.
Click to expand...
Did you have it configured correctly ? Trend & the game. That doesn't sound
like normal operation with trend. But it does sound like a configuration
setting of adult controls with Trend. If you don't have access to those
controls, you should probably take it up with your parents.
There IS a Timer setting for games in the adult controls section. A whole
slew
of adult controls. If the adult controls are on, that sounds like SOP.
 
As an MS Action Pack subscriber, I was able to test 1care, and I like it.

I also like the Forefront Client for domain use, if set up correctly.
G-Data 2010 is also looking promising.

ShadoShyrke
(AKA James Walker)



my vote is 1care. One of those mentioned above, has stopped detecting, and
supporting in favor of just selling subscriptions. 1care beat it hands down
with my machine. I jumped ship 6 months into a subscription, after running
the
1care trial and seeing the results.
I was with that software for more than 10 years. And this is a plus, next
year
1 care - Morro will be free.
 
ShadoShryke said:
I guess you did not bother to read the About Us section of that site:

About Us
For over a decade, ICSA Labs, an independent division of Verizon Business,
has been the security industry's central authority for research,
intelligence, and certification testing of products. ICSA Labs sets
standards for information security products and certifies over 95% of the
installed base of anti-virus, firewall, IPSec VPN, cryptography, SSL VPN,
network IPS, anti-spyware and PC firewall products commonly deployed in
the world today.
Click to expand...
I did read the about us section. That's why I said they're a division of
Verizon, which sounds like something which could make them biased. I didn't
see anywhere that says what ICSA stands for.
What this shows is that McAfee failed the monthly Virus Detection test
that the lab runs: i.e. it did not detect all of the virus/malware that
are required for a ICSA certificate, which means that a number of
organizations, including state and federal, will not trust it.
Click to expand...
That makes no sense, since you say they failed a test "required for a ICSA
certificate". I guess you missed the link in my response to the page where
they say McAfee software is certfiied. That also doesn't answer my question
as to what "fail" means. What sort of virus/malware did it not detect? Was
it tested using the latest updates?
For US Army Signal Corps, McAfee use to be the most trusted. Not in the
last 5 years though.
Click to expand...
You know this how?/
It seems that you are just arguing and not debating. You have given no
basis for your reasoning other than word of mouth suppositions because you
could not work one program's network connection.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what you're referring to with "word of mouth suppositions",
since all I mentioned was that from my personal experience as well as
everyone I know, McAfee hasn't caused any problems and TrendMicro has.
I can appreciate your own opinion, but that is most of what it seems you
are passing on. As you have proven, I could pass you links with reviews
from independent labs all over the world, and probably even he ISSA, and
you would stick to your guns over one program. That is your right and
your choice.
Click to expand...
If all you care about is "links with reviews", here's one.
http://www.v3.co.uk/vnunet/news/2195580/trend-micro-fails-anti-malware
I'd bet every AV software has positive and negative reviews from various
sources.
My first concern is whether the AV program prevents productivity. Once it
passes that test, we'll look into what sort of malware it's able to detect
and block. TrendMicro failed.
Productivity test is simple:
Does it prevent other valid programs (besides other AV programs) from
functioning properly?
Does it ask users questions they wouldn't necessarily know the answer to, or
shouldn't need to care about?
 
You do realize that this response, did less for your cause.

He was talking about the "time of play" parental controls. His comments
were all towards that, not adult content, but I can understand your
confusion.

No worries. You want a "set and forget" system, not a "I control the
features" AV. That was what Norton 360 and G-Data have gone in the
direction of.

McAfee did that as well and unfortunately sacrificed some security in the
process. They are working hard to get that fixed, and I hope that they
manage because competition in the market is good for everyone.

Cheers!

ShadoShyrke
(AKA James Walker)
 
I find it amusing that Norton was the very FIRST company that had to
supply a dedicated web download to remove their defective products!
Click to expand...

I have no comment on Norton or other (AV) programs and utilities, but I
don't see any relationship between a removal utility and a "defective"
product.

I personally see it as a "thoughtful" tool so users can use it as a last
resort which otherwise wouldn't be possible. A few application providers
have also followed the same by providing a removal utility just in case
something went terribly wrong (which is a case-by-case scenario), and it's
far better than "format and re-install".
 
For US Army Signal Corps, McAfee use to be the most trusted. Not in the
You know this how?/
Click to expand...

US Army Signal Corps. 6 years. Active, 1996-2001. Army National Guard-
Personnel Division - 2002 - 2005.
Army Air Force Exchange Services HR Tech 2008, US AF Family Readiness Data
Resource Center Support 2009

Would you like more? I have been in the industry, both Civilian and
military, direct hire or Contractor, since 1994.

I graduated from high school when Apple IIe and TRS-80 were the most common
system, and Commodore had not even launched the Amiga line yet. I learned
Programming of Basic on a TRS-80 and learned to test circuit boards on XT.

And to think that I intended to be a liberal artist working my music,
writing and drawing/painting/pastels, and a horticultural expert. I guess
the fact that my dad was working systems for the US Navy from the 60s until
the early 80s rubbed off on me. Now I spend my time supporting,
consulting, and training people and companies. I just decided that the
life of programming was not for me because I hate scouring lines of code for
hours on end. :: chuckles ::

The years in the Army triggered my interest in Information Security so I
find it interesting.

"Word of Mouth" means repeating other peoples comments or feelings without
documented proof. Now, if you like, I can provide you with the McAfee
archives and forums links, as well as various tech forums, where people have
had issues with McAfee. I can even provide you with links to support for
Comcast, who provided McAfee as their AV choice so that you can look over
the fact that over the past 5 years they have had increasing issues with the
McAfee AV.

No, I am not saying that McAfee is bad stuff, it has just not performed up
to par by most SECURITY SPECIALIZED GROUPS standards. It still ranks as one
of the most retail popular, but then so does McDonalds, and that just proves
that popular does not always mean best for you.

Just like, despite what some of thier commercials imply, Apple is not virus
or worry free, which I also know by 5.5 year of experience supporting.

So, now that you have my qualifications, are you satified?

ShadoShyrke
(AKA James Walker)
 
Two major CAD program providers have done this, mainly because the program
has so many key files and registry entries that if a HDD block corruption,
or other glitch, or patch issue, happens, you may not be able to use the
uninstall.

Now, as for the one that Mr Urban is mentioning from 2002, yes, there was a
line of code that was in an initial patch that caused an issue with 2002.
Yes, he is right, and I personally experienced that. I also saw that within
2 weeks of this glitch showing up, they had the removal tool and a free
download of the fixed insall version available.

I still have McAfee on two machines, one physical and one Virtual. I hated
McAfee 2005 because the virus updates failed more than they succeeded.
Unlike Symantec, McAfee did not issue an apology when their updates were
weeks later than everyone else and their updates failed regularly. It took
them 4 months to fix it, and it was even worse in mixed networks (Apple and
Windows Machines). For that reason, two companies that I was contracting
too asked for alternative and I suggested NAV, Symantec Corporate Security
(same core as NAV but with a Client-Server format) and TrendMicro. One
group chose NAV and the other took TrendMicro and both were happy with the
results.

I just like people making truly informed decisions, no matter their choice.
Just like if I sold them a car, I would tell them if the tires were worn or
if the car had been tuned up in years. I did not make the product, I only
test, sell and support them.

To me, that is fun.

ShadoShryke
(AKA James Walker)
 
Two major CAD program providers have done this, mainly because the program
has so many key files and registry entries that if a HDD block corruption,
or other glitch, or patch issue, happens, you may not be able to use the
uninstall.
Click to expand...

Understood, and there are more possible causes for an uninstaller might not
work well or totally remove all components and/or registry entries which is
when a removal utility could be helpful.

As for the rest of your post, I have absolutely no questions for anyone's
experience or preference with regard to a 3rd party product, and for the
same reason, I never recommended nor bashed any 3rd party applications or
utilities on the net. My reply was to point out that a removal utility is
in fact to be helpful rather to be an indicator of a poor product.
 
Second thought, LOL

"...I never recommended nor bashed any 3rd party applications..." should be,

I "rarely" recommended unless it was really necessary, and as far as I can
remember, I don't bash any 3rd party utility or application.
 
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