What is the value proposition for Vista?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Charlie Wilkes
  • Start date Start date
Roy said:
No, it's "general" as "topics not dealt with in other groups in m.p.w.v.*".

rOy
Click to expand...

Which would include comments regarding the OS, be they positive or negative.

Alias
 
Roy said:
I prefer openSUSE 10.2 - especially now after the Microsoft/Sun
agreement;-)


rOy
Click to expand...

I haven't tried that one yet but I may due to the fact that a lot of
people recommend it.

Alias
 
For the vast majority of the people the value is that it comes installed on
the computer they just bought. If you can convince OEMs to install Linux
then the general public will start using Linux instead of Windows.
 
For a while, Wal-Mart was selling $250 computers with Lindows instead of
Windows. When I first saw them, I was aghast. People who buy their
computers from Wal-Mart don't know what they're buying. They go to Wal-Mart
and buy a "computer". They expect it to do what their neighbors' computers
do. When they got them home and found out they don't have the same features
as their neighbors, I bet there were a lot of dissatisfied consumers.

To some degree, Vista Home Basic falls in this same category. A less useful
OS put on a computer for the benefit of an OEM who wants a lower price
advertised.

For OEMs to just start building PCs with Linux would be bad for their
customers. Advanced customers who can make that decision intelligently can
ask for it specifically.

Dale
 
He needs a friend or a date. LOL

Richard Urban said:
Do you have a question regarding the operation of Vista on your operating
system??

OR - are you just lonely and wasting time?

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
Click to expand...
 
That was told to me by my uncle when I was 8 years old - to let me know that
no matter how smart I "thought" I was, I didn't know it all. I have not
forgotten the lessen in 56 years.

If you think it fits you also - that's for you to decide.

I think I will leave it there, thank you!

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
The polite thing to do would be to leave it out of replies.
There's actually a setting for that in Windows Mail.
As insightful as the quote may be- it is still obnoxious
for you to include it in all your posts, along with all the
extra lines you use in your sig.

-Michael
 
Nice to hear your thoughts.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
You can? Intriguing.

-Michael

Richard Urban said:
Nice to hear your thoughts.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
Click to expand...
 
Charlie Wilkes said:
It appears that a lot of people are having problems with Vista:

-- Doesn't support legacy software
-- 3d party drivers unavailable or unstable
-- Numerous weird glitches, e.g. -- Vista changed properties for .exe
file extension so user can't run programs, user has to re-validate
license every few days, system blue screens on bad driver and has to
be cleaned up in safe mode, system freezes right after booting up.

Anyone can get a nice-looking, slick, powerful Linux OS for free. But
most people prefer to buy Windows, because it offers superior hardware
compatibility, supports the most popular software titles, and is more
polished/less buggy.

If the consumer marketplace discovers that Vista falls short on the
core benefits that justify paying $$$ for closed source vs. free open
source... will they continue to pay anyway?

Charlie
Click to expand...

First off I think you raise some valid questions but here is my take:

1. Legacy software - I've found that a lot of legacy software does play
nicely with Vista and those applications that don't will in time be upgraded
to work with Vista. Moving to Mac or Linux would only make this problem
worse so Vista would seem to be the best choice if this were the sole
consideration in a move from XP.

2. 3rd party drivers will arrive faster than they did for the move to
Windows 2000. It is a problem with any new OS that gets resolved with a bit
of time. If we look at alternatives try legally running OS X on your
IBM\Lenovo, HP, Dell, Acer, etc.....not! While Linux hardware support has
steadily improved it is not on the level of Windows XP.

3. Weird glitches come with a new operating system as large and complex as
Vista. Service packs and fixes will arrive over time and solve many of
these glitches.

So all three of the problems you mentioned are temporary and if you are not
prepared to be on the bleeding edge you may be better served by sticking
with XP for the short term. My guess is in a year or so the concerns you
have raised will disappear.

In terms of Linux, give it a try in either a dual boot or boot from CD mode.
I think you may find that the concerns you raised in the three points above
exist there too. There are pro's and con's to Windows\OS X and Linux. In
the long run my guess is that Vista will become the dominant OS once again
but for now you can avoid all of the concerns you raised just by sticking
with XP.
 
I don't disagree with you but Linux does have a chance to get a foot in the
door with Vista. Vista is sufficiently different from previous Windows that
there will be some backlash from consumers. If an enterprising OEM was to
offer a user friendly version of Linux they may make some headway. I'm not
saying it will or should happen just that it's possible.

In any case the reason most people use Windows is because that's what came
with their computer. If the computer came with something else they would use
it instead. That is where the value of Windows is for most people. It came
with their computer.
 
Kerry,

I have been playing with Ubuntu now for about two years. It will never be my
main O/S.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
I much prefer Fedora or Suse over Unbuntu but that's just me. For the
average computer user Ubuntu is a much friendlier choice. I think Ubuntu or
something like it would be an acceptable alternative to Windows or OS X for
a lot of people. We'll never know because I don't see anyone making a real
effort to sell a Linux box. It would take very deep pockets to get any
market penetration.
 
I don't disagree with you but Linux does have a chance to get a foot in the
door with Vista. Vista is sufficiently different from previous Windows that
there will be some backlash from consumers. If an enterprising OEM was to
offer a user friendly version of Linux they may make some headway. I'm not
saying it will or should happen just that it's possible.
Click to expand...

Yes. MS is attempting to extend a revenue cycle that has, in the
past, generated huge returns for the company while also benefiting
consumers.

Replacing a 1993 win3x computer with a 1997 win95 computer was
obviously worthwhile. I don't see that a 2007 machine running Vista
offers comparable improvement relative to a 2003 XP machine.

As you point out, the OEMs are the technical buyers, but consumers are
the end users who complain if not satisfied. If new Vista computers
routinely blue screen or lock up, or don't support hardware,
complaints will go to the OEMs. If the OEMs lose credibility while
their support costs go sky-high, perhaps one or more of the big
players will ditch MS for Linux.

I wonder if MS should postpone the Vista release for another few
months, and work to fix problems like the ones that get posted here.

Charlie
 
First off I think you raise some valid questions but here is my take:

1. Legacy software - I've found that a lot of legacy software does play
nicely with Vista and those applications that don't will in time be upgraded
to work with Vista. Moving to Mac or Linux would only make this problem
worse so Vista would seem to be the best choice if this were the sole
consideration in a move from XP.

2. 3rd party drivers will arrive faster than they did for the move to
Windows 2000. It is a problem with any new OS that gets resolved with a bit
of time. If we look at alternatives try legally running OS X on your
IBM\Lenovo, HP, Dell, Acer, etc.....not! While Linux hardware support has
steadily improved it is not on the level of Windows XP.

3. Weird glitches come with a new operating system as large and complex as
Vista. Service packs and fixes will arrive over time and solve many of
these glitches.

So all three of the problems you mentioned are temporary and if you are not
prepared to be on the bleeding edge you may be better served by sticking
with XP for the short term. My guess is in a year or so the concerns you
have raised will disappear.

In terms of Linux, give it a try in either a dual boot or boot from CD mode.
I think you may find that the concerns you raised in the three points above
exist there too. There are pro's and con's to Windows\OS X and Linux. In
the long run my guess is that Vista will become the dominant OS once again
but for now you can avoid all of the concerns you raised just by sticking
with XP.
Click to expand...

Thanks for a thoughtful response. Presumably Vista will succeed if
it's not too troublesome in the near term, and if drivers and patches
roll in quickly enough.

But the broader, long-term question is really whether people will
continue to see value in the upgrade cycle if what they are doing is
the same old word processing, email and web surfing,
organizing/printing digital photos, and ripping/burning music.

MS (or somebody) needs to come up with a whole new category of
compelling applications that require the latest, fastest machines with
a 64 bit OS. What might that be? One possibility is a 3d monitor
that maps holograms in an aquarium-sized lucite block, instead of
bitmaps on a flat plane. Imagine what that would do for gaming.
There must be other possibilities as well.

Without something juicy to whet the appetite, consumers might decide
to stick with the computer they've had for the past few years.

Charlie
 
Charlie Wilkes said:
Thanks for a thoughtful response. Presumably Vista will succeed if
it's not too troublesome in the near term, and if drivers and patches
roll in quickly enough.

But the broader, long-term question is really whether people will
continue to see value in the upgrade cycle if what they are doing is
the same old word processing, email and web surfing,
organizing/printing digital photos, and ripping/burning music.

MS (or somebody) needs to come up with a whole new category of
compelling applications that require the latest, fastest machines with
a 64 bit OS. What might that be? One possibility is a 3d monitor
that maps holograms in an aquarium-sized lucite block, instead of
bitmaps on a flat plane. Imagine what that would do for gaming.
There must be other possibilities as well.

Without something juicy to whet the appetite, consumers might decide
to stick with the computer they've had for the past few years.
Click to expand...

Really, the same can be said about cars, TVs, refrigerators, and
the wife unit. ;-)


-Michael
 
Kerry said:
I much prefer Fedora or Suse over Unbuntu but that's just me. For the
average computer user Ubuntu is a much friendlier choice. I think Ubuntu
or something like it would be an acceptable alternative to Windows or OS
X for a lot of people. We'll never know because I don't see anyone
making a real effort to sell a Linux box. It would take very deep
pockets to get any market penetration.
Click to expand...

Word of mouth is the best advertising, bar none.

Alias
 
Dale said:
I can see how well it's working for Apple and Linux.

Dale
Click to expand...

Linux hasn't caught on yet because it still has a geeky rep. Once enough
people have had a chance to see the new distros, that will change. In
addition, Vista and IE7 are doing a good job of helping people look for
alternatives.

No one thought rock 'n' roll would catch on either ...

Alias
 
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