What is the best HDD in terms of Reliability/cost?

  • Thread starter Thread starter kopn
  • Start date Start date
kopn said:
Thanks for your reply.
Does Ghost compress 7 times? Why to fit a weeks worth of backups on the
same drive, why to keep 7 copies of the same drive?
Click to expand...

Usually one wants two backup HDs. One is always offsite. Ghost compresses
~1.5x if the source drive/files aren't already compressed. Keep multiple
cycles around to protect against 2nd order threats including inadvertent
manual file deletion. Usually the backup HD is huge compared to the working
partitions is where the 7x comes from.
 
kopn said:
Thanks for your reply, Ron.
Fire, theft, malicious or buggy SW causing my data loss are less
probable than the drive failure.
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NO, combined they are probably of about equal or greater probability over a
reasonable life than simple drive failure. Think about it; the list
included "malicious or buggy SW" which includes human error.
 
I would have to remember what files and folder I backed up last time,
what files and folders have changed and what files and folders have
been created since then, find them and copy to a DVD to make a new back
up. This is a time consuming task.
Click to expand...

The other approach is to keep everything that you'll slash your
wrists if you lose in once folder tree under My Documents and just
backup that entire folder tree to DVD every time you do a backup.

The only time that doesnt work well is when you have lots of photos
or movies stored there, the size becomes too large for convenience.
Internal oem drives are less expensive than an external hard drive.
Click to expand...

Yes, but those dont protect you against the power
supply dying spectacularly and killing the drives
inside the PC, or theft of that PC, or fire or flood etc.

An external drive is a bit safer in that respect, particularly if you hide
it before leaving the house so its less likely to get stolen with the PC.
What do you think about other HDD brands (Samsung...) than the
mentioned?
Click to expand...

I like Samsungs myself, just because they are noticeably
quieter than the alternatives and run a bit cooler too.

Seagates do have a longer warranty tho, 5 years instead of 3.
 
Well if it involves no cost it would be easy for the competitor
to match this - why should they loose a marketing advantage?
Hard drives are a commodity business that is quite brutal in
competition. Providing the warranty reflects a real cost and risk
exposure. The fact that the competition chooses not to match
tells you they think they do not want this cost or risk exposure.
Click to expand...

Or they realise that any warranty has a cost, even with a
perfect drive that never fails in the field, there will always
be some drives killed by gross mismanagement etc.
And they believe that more purchases are made on price
than on warranty and that the shorter warranty will produce
more sales because they can be sold at a lower price.
Secondly, in a commodity business where you
compete on price having the shorter warranty might
allow a company to specify poorer quality parts
Click to expand...

Not feasible with hard drives.

They do in fact do what you say just by having
a shorter warranty and so lower warranty costs.
and be able to sell at a lower price knowing
full well that the design life is now shorter.
Click to expand...
I have had at least three Maxtor drives fail
between 3-4 years (just out of warranty).
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And hardly anyone else sees that result, so its much more likely
to be something you are doing like running the drives too hot etc.
 
Do you just copy (add) newer files and folders to a DVD for back up?
Click to expand...

No, I find that the entire folder tree under My Computers and the entire
folder tree used for email and newsgroups all fit on a single DVD fine.

I also backup at a higher rate to other drives on the lan. The backup to
DVD is only really used for last ditch protection in case the entire house
got looted by some damned druggy or it burnt to the ground etc. There
is no possibility of flood here. I use the backup to other drives on the lan
for more common situations like a full clean reinstall of the OS and data.

I also have an immense collection of stuff scarfed off the net over more
than a decade now and occasionally write that to a set of DVDs. That
doesnt happen all that often because that stuff can be obtained off the
net again if the worst comes to the worst, just a nuisance really.
 
Ron Reaugh said:
Rod Speed said:
Ron Reaugh said:
In Russia Seagate costs much more than other brands.
What is the cheapest way (in terms of 1 mb) of back up?
Big removable ATA HDs are the best solution generally.
Click to expand...

Lousy value compared with DVD if the data will fit on a couple of DVDs
Keep it off site.
Click to expand...
Easier and safer with DVDs.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

DVDs are too small
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Bullshit. Everything I would slash my wrists if I lost fits on a single DVD.
and more expensive in the long run.
Click to expand...

Mindless silly stuff. Not with DVD+RWs they dont.

The only advantage of using a hard drive is that you can do a full backup
of the system so the effort to restore is minimised on a hard drive failure
and I do that to other drives on the lan, dont need removable for that.
DVDs handle the removable aspect for the stuff I would slash my wrists
if I lost fine.
 
Keeping out of the reliability debate that is raging and sticking to
cost, the answer is that it is a moving target. What I notice is that
there is a sweet spot that varies by time and market as to the most
bang for your buck :) At the moment here in Australia it seems to be
the 200 and 250GB drives. It's not hard to do the calc $/capacity. But
that's not the whole story because too small a drive, even if a good
deal, is still going to take up a drive bay.

So I'd check where you intend to buy from (local or overseas) and do
the calc at the time you have to buy, because drive prices keep
changing.

Hope that helps,

Wayne
Wayne J. Cosshall
Publisher, The Digital ImageMaker, www.dimagemaker.com
Freelance writer in graphic design, photography, digital technology
Personal art site www.artinyourface.com
(e-mail address removed)
 
Joe said:
Well if it involves no cost it would be easy for the competitor to match
this - why should they loose a marketing advantage? Hard drives are a
commodity business that is quite brutal in competition. Providing the
warranty reflects a real cost and risk exposure. The fact that the
competition chooses not to match tells you they think they do not want
this cost or risk exposure. Secondly, in a commodity business where you
compete on price having the shorter warranty might allow a company to
specify poorer quality parts and be able to sell at a lower price
knowing full well that the design life is now shorter.
Click to expand...

On the other hand, it may just be that Seagate's marketing people believe
that the increased sales resulting from the longer warranty will more than
offset the costs of increasing the warranty, while the other manufacturers
don't think that they'll get enough of an increase in sales to make the
increase in warranty worthwhile.
I have had at least three Maxtor drives fail between 3-4 years (just out
of warranty).
Click to expand...

Out of how many Maxtor drives and did you have an equal number of other
brands of drive with a different failure rate?
 
kopn said:
What is the best HDD in terms of Reliability/cost?
Click to expand...

The 80GB drive Fry's offered for $19 after rebate or the 120GB they
offered more recently for $20 AR, but both pale compared to the $10 AR
deal somebody got for a 120GB-160GB after a price match.
 
Bullshit. Everything I would slash my wrists if I lost fits on a single
DVD.


Mindless silly stuff. Not with DVD+RWs they dont.
Wacko.

The only advantage of using a hard drive is that you can do a full backup
of the system so the effort to restore is minimised on a hard drive
failure
and I do that to other drives on the lan,
Click to expand...

You meant of course...over the LAN to HD on a machine in a different
building.. wacko.
dont need removable for that.
DVDs handle the removable aspect for the stuff I would slash my wrists
if I lost fine.
Click to expand...

Seek help.
 
wayne said:
Keeping out of the reliability debate that is raging and sticking to
cost, the answer is that it is a moving target. What I notice is that
there is a sweet spot that varies by time and market as to the most
bang for your buck :) At the moment here in Australia it seems to be
the 200 and 250GB drives. It's not hard to do the calc $/capacity. But
that's not the whole story because too small a drive, even if a good
deal, is still going to take up a drive bay.
Click to expand...

Well, KinWin KF-83 removable trays solves that and makes one bay available
to many drives..one at a time.
 
On the other hand, it may just be that Seagate's marketing people believe
that the increased sales resulting from the longer warranty will more than
offset the costs of increasing the warranty, while the other manufacturers
don't think that they'll get enough of an increase in sales to make the
increase in warranty worthwhile.
Click to expand...


Precisely, warranty length is a marketing & price point decision. Most all
current HDs have a design life of 5 years.
 
Ron Reaugh said:
Rod Speed said:
In Russia Seagate costs much more than other brands.
What is the cheapest way (in terms of 1 mb) of back up?
Big removable ATA HDs are the best solution generally.
Lousy value compared with DVD if the data will fit on a couple of DVDs
Keep it off site.
Easier and safer with DVDs.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

DVDs are too small
Click to expand...

Bullshit. Everything I would slash my wrists if I lost fits on a single DVD.
Click to expand...


Maybe some people need more space than others
Mindless silly stuff. Not with DVD+RWs they dont.

The only advantage of using a hard drive is that you can do a full backup
of the system so the effort to restore is minimised on a hard drive failure
and I do that to other drives on the lan, dont need removable for that.
DVDs handle the removable aspect for the stuff I would slash my wrists
if I lost fine.
Click to expand...

You have to include the cost of the guy doing backup/restore in the
total cost of the process of backuping, as well as the down time of
all the system and the cost of all a team sitting doing nothing. Then
several external drives become extremly interesting in term of cost.

Nick
 
J. Clarke said:
On the other hand, it may just be that Seagate's marketing people believe
that the increased sales resulting from the longer warranty will more than
offset the costs of increasing the warranty, while the other manufacturers
don't think that they'll get enough of an increase in sales to make the
increase in warranty worthwhile.
Click to expand...


Well Seagate itself warranties its external USB drives for only 1 year -
so they obviously recognize that that is a more hostile environment and
are only willing to warranty the drive for a year. If all contemporary
hard drives lasted for >5 years it would be no problem for Seagate to
extend the warranty for their external USB drives to match that of their
internal drives. This differential application of warranty clearly
demonstrates that warranty length is tied to expected product life.

Roland
 
You have to include the cost of the guy doing backup/restore in the
total cost of the process of backuping, as well as the down time of
all the system and the cost of all a team sitting doing nothing. Then
several external drives become extremly interesting in term of cost.
Click to expand...


Precisely, HDs are FAST! Tapes are dog slow. DVDs are medium but media
swapping makes them slow too.

As most here have noted speedo hasn't a clue.
 
Joe Doe said:
Well Seagate itself warranties its external USB drives for only 1 year -
so they obviously recognize that that is a more hostile environment and
are only willing to warranty the drive for a year. If all contemporary
hard drives lasted for >5 years it would be no problem for Seagate to
extend the warranty for their external USB drives to match that of their
internal drives.

HUH?

This differential application of warranty clearly
demonstrates that warranty length is tied to expected product life.
Click to expand...

HUH?
 
Nick said:
Rod Speed said:
Ron Reaugh said:
In Russia Seagate costs much more than other brands.
What is the cheapest way (in terms of 1 mb) of back up?
Big removable ATA HDs are the best solution generally.
Lousy value compared with DVD if the data will fit on a couple of DVDs
Keep it off site.
Easier and safer with DVDs.
DVDs are too small
Click to expand...

Bullshit. Everything I would slash my wrists if I lost fits on a single DVD.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Maybe some people need more space than others
Click to expand...

You quite sure you aint one of those rocket scientist fellas ?

DVDs are still completely viable if say you have loads of pics.

Just write each new pic to multiple DVDs using different media for the
multiple copys and check that the media isnt going bad occasionally so
you can copy the still good copy again if some media does go bad over time.
You have to include the cost of the guy doing backup/restore in the
total cost of the process of backuping, as well as the down time of
all the system and the cost of all a team sitting doing nothing.
Click to expand...

Only in a work situation, not in a domestic situation.
Then several external drives become extremly interesting in term of cost.
Click to expand...

Sure, but that isnt his situation.
 
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