Vista -- The Pros & The Cons -- And Posting Styles

  • Thread starter Thread starter D. Spencer Hines
  • Start date Start date
No, I choose not be to an obnoxious jerk that judges people based upon
something as stupid as where they post replies.

HTH,

Art

D. Spencer Hines said:
I see...

So you blow with the wind -- don't know your own mind and simply follow
the mooing, lowing herd.

Aye, Got It!

DSH

I generally bottom-post because most newsgroup FAQs say it is part of the
nettiquette for the group and I try to follow that. I don't find one
style
better or worse for me. If top posting is the norm I'm quite fine with
it.
If bottom posting is the norm I'm quite fine with that too. I'm never
fine
with flaming someone for their style of posting one way or the other.

Art

They are, of course, absolutely correct -- as long as they actually read
the incoming post -- which some fail to do entirely -- and then just
bugle and rabbit.

Generally, However:

Top People Top Post.

Bottom People Bottom Post.

BUT intelligent posting style is situationally driven to some extent.

I generally top post -- but also interlinear post and even bottom post
when the situation requires it.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas


The reason many MVPs top post is because they think it's the better to
way to post, just as the reason many non-MVPs top-post is because they
think it's the better way to post.

[...]
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
When in Rome, do as the Romans. I agree with that
philosophy.
To be sure, top posting in a non-MS newsgroup usually
gets the poster flamed by old-timers. I'm not so sure that
just because something was done a certain way in the
olden days makes it appropriate for modern days.

Gary VanderMolen


Art said:
I generally bottom-post because most newsgroup FAQs say it is part of the
nettiquette for the group and I try to follow that. I don't find one style
better or worse for me. If top posting is the norm I'm quite fine with it.
If bottom posting is the norm I'm quite fine with that too. I'm never fine
with flaming someone for their style of posting one way or the other.

Art



D. Spencer Hines said:
They are, of course, absolutely correct -- as long as they actually read
the incoming post -- which some fail to do entirely -- and then just bugle
and rabbit.

Generally, However:

Top People Top Post.

Bottom People Bottom Post.

BUT intelligent posting style is situationally driven to some extent.

I generally top post -- but also interlinear post and even bottom post
when the situation requires it.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

The reason many MVPs top post is because they think it's the better to
way
to post, just as the reason many non-MVPs top-post is because they think
it's the better way to post.
Click to expand...

[...]
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Even though this is WAY ot... I'll throw in my two cents because I don't
have a life.

My opinion on Top/Bottom posting is... hey, hold on a sec, I -do- have a
life... nm.

Lang

D. Spencer Hines said:
They are, of course, absolutely correct -- as long as they actually read
the incoming post -- which some fail to do entirely -- and then just bugle
and rabbit.

Generally, However:

Top People Top Post.

Bottom People Bottom Post.

BUT intelligent posting style is situationally driven to some extent.

I generally top post -- but also interlinear post and even bottom post
when the situation requires it.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

The reason many MVPs top post is because they think it's the better to
way
to post, just as the reason many non-MVPs top-post is because they think
it's the better way to post.
Click to expand...

[...]
Click to expand...
 
No.

Clueless knobends who can't be arsed to read up on Usenet etiquette top
post.
Click to expand...

AMEN!

And most of them seem to be found in the Microsoft* hierarchy. Linux
people almost never top post

*******AND**********

I RARELY see top-posting in most non-techie newsgroups that I
frequent, regardless of what newsreader or operating system was used
for the post.

Being that said newsgroups are non-technical, they are naturally
dominated by Windows users, since Windows is the dominant OS on the
planet.

I can't get over how Windows users can "behave" much better outside of
the microsoft* hierarchy.

Go to most any rec.*, sci*, alt*, or what have you group and you'll
see what I mean.

I don't understand why Windows users generally behave in those
hierarchies and not in MS newsgroups.

I suppose part of the explanation is the MS groups are dominated by
new Windows users using Outlook Distress with it's backassward default
settings (typical for MS).*

But that doesn't explain how they behave better elsewhere. Maybe the
fact that other groups often have FAQ's with links to Usenet Etiquette
articles?

Who knows.

Bottom posting has been around long before any Microsoft product gave
users access to USENET.

Why?

Because in lengthy discussions it's easiest to follow a discussion if

a) the previous post is quoted AND properly trimmed

b) follow-up remarks are interspersed with the quoted text, making the
discussion messier to follow and also making the overall post less
lengthy.

Trying to follow discussion when everyone is top posting and doing
full untrimmed quotes is a royal PITA.

It's even worse when your server is missing an article or two from the
thread.

Honestly, Usenet was far more hospitable prior to 1996.

I'm not resistant to change, but only if it's for the better.

Did you know that major multi-national corporations often teach their
frequent travelers about etiquette in other countries?

What may be perfectly acceptable in one county may be just the
opposite in another.

They don't their employees embarrassing themselves (or their employer)
by making etiquette faux pas.

The first time one ventures into Usenet it can feel quit foreign. It
has it's own unique culture and history.

New (and uninformed) users would be well served to learn the culture.

I recommend visits to:


(or http://groups.google.com/group/news.newusers.questions ),

(or http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newusers ),

AND

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netiquette#Usenet_etiquette


Top posting is just rude. Badmouthing those who point that out. It
just shows how ignorant you are.

Just my $.02


*I have no explanation for "MVPs" who top post. That's REALLY bizarre.

--
Scott http://angrykeyboarder.com

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
NOTICE: In-Newsgroup (and therefore off-topic) comments on my sig will
be cheerfully ignored, so don't waste our time.
 
Some people have their own styles and don't feel they have to follow the
uptight few that preceeded them.
Click to expand...

Those are the same people who jabber on their cell phones in theatres
and libraries.

They only care about themselves.

--
Scott http://angrykeyboarder.com

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
NOTICE: In-Newsgroup (and therefore off-topic) comments on my sig will
be cheerfully ignored, so don't waste our time.
 
Yes, that seems to be a Good Rule -- particularly in these Microsoft
newsgroups.

All the Smart, Knowledgeable People seem to be Top Posters -- so, why read
the others?
Click to expand...

That was good for a laugh.

--
Scott http://angrykeyboarder.com

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
NOTICE: In-Newsgroup (and therefore off-topic) comments on my sig will
be cheerfully ignored, so don't waste our time.
 
Clueless knobheads ... etiquette?

heh ...

irony is so comforting
Click to expand...

And ignorance is bliss.
--
Scott http://angrykeyboarder.com

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
NOTICE: In-Newsgroup (and therefore off-topic) comments on my sig will
be cheerfully ignored, so don't waste our time.
 
I suspect these are SOME of the reasons we have so many top posters here,
other reasons would be most welcome, as this list is by no means
exhaustive -- but simply preliminary:

1. The posters here are smarter and better informed than the average bear,
so many of them Top Post. After all, Top People Top Post.
Click to expand...

That was good for a laugh.
2. Most folks here are probably using Microsoft Vista or XP -- in fact I
wouldn't be surprised if upwards of 90% of them are
Click to expand...

And therefore using Outlook Express/Windows Mail with it's LAME ass
default settings.

3. Most folks of the previous statistical cut are probably using Outlook
Express or Windows Mail as their newsreader.
Click to expand...

See above.
4. The VERY Smart Folks who designed Outlook Express, being Top People
themselves, were Top Posters already and therefore put the cursor at the top
of the page, where it belongs -- not down below the text, where only Bottom
People, who are naturally Bottom Posters, would prefer to see it.
Click to expand...

That was good for a laugh.
5. Further, I suspect that Windows Mail in Vista ALSO puts the cursor at
the top of the page where it belongs. It would be useful for someone to
confirm or deny that.
Click to expand...

That was good for another laugh.

--
Scott http://angrykeyboarder.com

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
NOTICE: In-Newsgroup (and therefore off-topic) comments on my sig will
be cheerfully ignored, so don't waste our time.
 
Most folks that use #3 are not computer savvy, and most of them have no
real idea about Usenet. This invalidates your #1, #4, but, does make #5
a perfect example of a broken Usenet client.
Click to expand...

You summed that up very well. :-)

And besides , MS thinks it runs the Internets™ and has managed to
convince millinos that it does as well.
--
Scott http://angrykeyboarder.com

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
NOTICE: In-Newsgroup (and therefore off-topic) comments on my sig will
be cheerfully ignored, so don't waste our time.
 
I generally bottom-post because most newsgroup FAQs say it is part of the
nettiquette for the group and I try to follow that.
Click to expand...


BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You sir, are a true Gentlemen.
--
Scott http://angrykeyboarder.com

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
NOTICE: In-Newsgroup (and therefore off-topic) comments on my sig will
be cheerfully ignored, so don't waste our time.
 
I see...

So you blow with the wind -- don't know your own mind and simply follow the
mooing, lowing herd.

Aye, Got It!
Click to expand...

So then , I take it you continually belch and fart in public, bathe or
shower once a month, jabber on your cell phone during a movie, play or
opera, and cut people off in traffic because you don't want to "simply
follow the mooing, lowing herd"?

--
Scott http://angrykeyboarder.com

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
NOTICE: In-Newsgroup (and therefore off-topic) comments on my sig will
be cheerfully ignored, so don't waste our time.
 
To be sure, top posting in a non-MS newsgroup usually
gets the poster flamed by old-timers. I'm not so sure that
just because something was done a certain way in the
olden days makes it appropriate for modern days.

Gary VanderMolen
Click to expand...


When it comes to Usenet, the difference between "modern days"
(1996-present) and prior to that (pre 1996) are:

1) AOL

2) Windows Mail and News, followed by Microsoft Outlook
Express followed by Windows Mail.

3) PCs sold as appliances. People just turn it on and expect
it to work without having to learn anything.


The combined addition of millions of clueless, ignorant users with bad
software has drastically reduced the readability of Usenet in many
newsgroups (and certainly in microsoft.*. Fortunately many
(non-techie, btw) newsgroups I frequent consist of mostly users who
started in "modern days" and yet were smart enough to do a bit of
research before just diving in.....

--
Scott http://angrykeyboarder.com

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
NOTICE: In-Newsgroup (and therefore off-topic) comments on my sig will
be cheerfully ignored, so don't waste our time.
 
b) follow-up remarks are interspersed with the quoted text, making the
discussion messier to follow and also making the overall post less
lengthy.
Click to expand...

OK, let's try that again...
b) follow-up remarks are interspersed with the quoted text, making the
discussion *easier* to follow and also making the overall post less
lengthy.
Click to expand...
--
Scott http://angrykeyboarder.com

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
NOTICE: In-Newsgroup (and therefore off-topic) comments on my sig will
be cheerfully ignored, so don't waste our time.
 
I've started to simply skip any bottom posted messages that require a scroll
since they are such a small minority these days and rarely offer any
information worth scrolling for. It's easier to just skip to the next post.
Click to expand...

So that's why you're ignoring me! :-)
--
Scott http://angrykeyboarder.com

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
NOTICE: In-Newsgroup (and therefore off-topic) comments on my sig will
be cheerfully ignored, so don't waste our time.
 
I suspect these are SOME of the reasons we have so many top posters here,
other reasons would be most welcome, as this list is by no means
exhaustive -- but simply preliminary:
Click to expand...

Anyone stupid enough to use OE as a newsreader shouldn't even be discussing
this issue because we all know that Microsoft puts the cursor at the top of
the post when replying to a post.
 
Pipboy said:
Anyone stupid enough to use OE as a newsreader shouldn't even be
discussing
this issue because we all know that Microsoft puts the cursor at the top
of
the post when replying to a post.
Click to expand...


That can be changed ( in Windows Mail anyway) by going into
options/advanced.
Bob
 
Whether you top-post, bottom-post, or in-contect post, quoting the
pertinent parts of the previous response should be adequate enough.
Quoting the entire previous message or messages seems superfluous and
provides no real value. I used to bottom-post messages. However, after
dealing with hundreds of e-mails on a daily basis from a variety of
users, top-posting quickly became the normal method of replying to
messages. This is probably thanks to Microsoft allowing Outlook Express
and Outlook to top-post message responses over the years. I also found
that some schools teaching users to top-post messages -- as in this is
the norm.

There are always cons to bottom and top posting messages.
 
The cursor is still placed at the top by default, but now one has the
option of changing it to the bottom. Having the choice is progress. :)
Click to expand...

The choice may be available. However, educating Windows Mail users to
select that choice will take an enormously long effort to change it back
to the old-school standard of replying to messages.

Microsoft's standards are not always the best and practical standards.
 
Of Course!

Any Smart Person -- whether he or she is reading large amounts of message or
cable traffic at the State Department -- on an Aircraft Carrier or in a
Corporate Communications Centre -- wants TOP Posting and message boards
where the New Traffic is on the TOP of the pile.

It allows for MUCH faster reading and mental processing.

When one reads the next day's messages, one just starts from the top of the
message board and reads down the pile until one finds the last time one
appended one's "chop".

Only idiots, who cannot remember what they have already read in a thread --
who don't have the Basic Mental Processing Equipment in the Noodle to do
so -- are Lowly Bottom Posters.

The same Communications Model goes for email -- and is, in fact, based on
and heir to it.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum

Exitus Acta Probat
 
That can be changed ( in Windows Mail anyway) by going into
options/advanced.
Click to expand...

And that's the first thing the average user does when they run OE for
the first time! ;-)

--
Scott http://angrykeyboarder.com

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
NOTICE: In-Newsgroup (and therefore off-topic) comments on my sig will
be cheerfully ignored, so don't waste our time.
 
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