This bothers me.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Guest
  • Start date Start date
Bugs reported by the public can be viewed on Connect by the official beta
testers, but the person reporting the bug has to switch one of the settings
in MBC to allow it to be viewed.

However, you can't see the feedback you made yourself if you aren't an
official beta tester...

So, unless you are friends with Bill Gates, too bad. Bummer.
 
I'd say you just provided those of us who say MSFT isn't transparent and has
low regard for the public and is using the CPP for a marketing tool with
what is known to General Counsel and VP Legal Brad Smith and his associate
Nancy Anderson when they were baby law students in the first year of law
school as

"Exhibit A"

These btw are the same geniuses that cost MSFT nearly a billion in European
Union fines by the time it will be over with not to mention the fees of
their inhouse and outside counsel.

CH
 
FWIW, I've had one issue resolved by using the Feedback desktop icon. I HAD
been using the wrong Product ID #, it's the one that is listed in Control
Panel/System, at the bottom of the first window where the version of the OS
also is listed, this too will be requested in the Feedback-Email version.
There was live MS support for my problem so please try it at least for one
your problems if you haven't given up yet.

I don't see anything magnificent about this beta either. But once I was
shown which product ID # to use, at least it became tolerable. I'm working
with an MS support person now again on my 'no sound' issue.

I would suggest typing the Product ID # somewhere you can copy/paste into
this email support wizard; much easier espec. with multiple problems. (the
most frustrating part of this vista beta has been finding someone/somewhere
to take these problems to, from Microsoft)

katy
 
Katy--

How do you achieve *access on Connect to the bug reports?* *Where is the
list of bug reports and the ability to search them on Connect and the
context of all of them by category which MSFT has in detail but doesn't
allow you?*

That's because it would give you a qualitative view of what they are not
fixing that is essential to fix.

CH
 
No, it's because Connect is still a work in progress and the Connect team
has not yet provided for access to the bug database for participants in
programs like the CPP.
 
You have to be kidding. Connect has been up for about 15 months. Connect
II the new incarnation has been up for about 2 months. They have been
deluged with requests to stop the disingenuousness and Corey Snow has on his
blogs, and many of the people who blog who are instramental in running the
Vista Beta have as well.

It is not because "it is still a work in progress" unless you believe that
your Congress has blocked review of the Iraq war or any oversite hearings
because it's a "work in Progress" or the 911 "we could not have screwed up
more tapes" were just revealed heavily redacted last week.

This work in progress excuse doesn't fly. The stuff isn't up because they
aren't transparent and don't want to reveal quantitatively which bugs have
been fixed, and to context the rest period.

You'd really have to think people are consummately stupid to believe that
Colin and I know you don't.

CH
 
Nonsense.

Chad Harris said:
You have to be kidding. Connect has been up for about 15 months. Connect
II the new incarnation has been up for about 2 months. They have been
deluged with requests to stop the disingenuousness and Corey Snow has on
his blogs, and many of the people who blog who are instramental in running
the Vista Beta have as well.

It is not because "it is still a work in progress" unless you believe that
your Congress has blocked review of the Iraq war or any oversite hearings
because it's a "work in Progress" or the 911 "we could not have screwed up
more tapes" were just revealed heavily redacted last week.

This work in progress excuse doesn't fly. The stuff isn't up because they
aren't transparent and don't want to reveal quantitatively which bugs have
been fixed, and to context the rest period.

You'd really have to think people are consummately stupid to believe that
Colin and I know you don't.

CH
Click to expand...
 
The word in the last post should have been instrumental.

I can't believe you would even think anyone is dumb enough to believe you.
The nonsense is the crap that it is "a work in progress." Are you reading
the posts here in brail Colin? Countless people have posted on MSDN blogs,
on the Vista Team Blog, on Corey Snow's Connect Blog,and on Paul Donnelly's
bug blog, to open up the bugs on Connect and to post them qualitatively.
They have all ignored this and refused.

Lessee--

Colin is given the bugs all aggregated and sorted the way Paul Donnellyhas
them in a lot of different categories on his computer and you are paralyzed
from posting them on connect because it's a work in progress.

What crap.

MSFT doesn't want to be transparent but does want to be disingenuous and
they are censoring posts now on this newsgroup. LOL

Is this then, your analysis Colin?

"Never blame anything on strategic conspiracy that can be blamed on
passionate incompetence."

CH
 
C'mon guys, give MS a break.

They never intended CPP participants to be beta testers. CPP participants
were expected to install Vista to see if their stuff works with it.

Now, if you DO file a bug report, you will get an e-mail (if you did not
file anonymously) when your bug changes, which includes the RESOLUTION as
well as any COMMENTS microsoft makes.

This is the SAME INFORMATION that is available on connect - there is no
additional information. The only things connect shows is the bug status and
comments by microsoft, as well as the information you entered in the bug
report form.

To re-iterate: There is *no additional information* available to private
beta testers about a bug that is not also sent to non-private beta testers
via e-mail.

The only thing CPP participants aren't allowed to do is to add comments to
their bug report, or upload additional files to the bug report.

And, unlike what Chad seems to imply, this is more likely a technical issue
than anything. Adding a few HUNDRED THOUSAND more people to the access list
to connect is probably an impossibility at this point - I doubt they have
the infrastructure for such a massive influx of traffic. Getting these
resources takes time.

Not to mention, it would take months of planning and testing to change the
code on connect to allow for another tier of user specifically for the
Windows team.

I know you may like to think that it just takes "a few minutes" to make the
code changes and be done with it, but that is not how it works when you are
running a website that has to be up 24/7 and serves hundreds of thousands of
customers.

You have to build, test, build, test, build, test, test, test, and then
deploy and cross your fingers.

- JB

Vista Support FAQ
http://www.jimmah.com/vista/
 
This is a tech issue - Connect was not designed for CPP participants. MS
does not have the ability to snap its fingers and will into existance a new
tier of users for connect to allow CPP participants access to their bugs, or
the infrastructure to support hundreds of thousands of new users overnight.

- JB

Vista Support FAQ
http://www.jimmah.com/vista/
 
Not so JB. My dog can open up a Connect account and become a member of
countless Beta programs in a NY heart beat right now. I can get screenshots
of my dog's participation on Connect. It's open to the public as a site and
they brag with all these stats that

Connect Stats
154,510 bugs submitted
22,211 suggestions submitted
414,328 Connect members


Those 414,328 members aren't private members. They may be members of Betas
and some are more difficult to get into than others. I sure appreciate them
throwing up Italian Vista and about 20 midmanagement server opportunities
that I could care less about--that's brilliant.

Connect has also had a ton of screwups including in the Vista TBT program,
that could have been avoided with competent help.

MSFT has had a world of time to convey the bug categories, their
dispositions, and their context and there is no reason not to make them
public. Same with the Vista groups and the Vista chats. The Vista chats
have never been restricted from copying and pasting on any web site and that
is all the more reason they should be open to the public. Only the binaries
and build numbers are restricted according to the information provided by
MSFT many months ago.

I think it's more appropriately called Disingenuous-Soft.

CH
 
CPP was intended for what it obviously is. A marketing advertising tool to
stir up interest to get dollars in Softie pockets period. I think it's
going to fail in that regard miserably, and fail disappointedly as a corner
turning, paradigm shift OS.

CH
 
Jimmy,
This is the last I post about this; and in my experience;you are
partially right.
However; I'll just repost this part;if ya don't mind;-from you;
Now, if you DO file a bug report, you will get an e-mail (if you did not
file anonymously) when your bug changes, which includes the RESOLUTION
Click to expand...
Yes that's correct. but not comments; those are in the feedback on
Connect.
But here's were Vista veers off the track; as I can access any bug report
that I filed; in the IE7 public beta.(ergo;the mechanism to do this;is
already in place)
But not;it seems in the Vista CPP
The e-mail had the bug feedback i.d and the direct link to view it. (And
btw; said; to view this info -click the link)
When I tried to go to that link; it sent me to a "You are not authorized to
access this page" screen.
Pardon this last part; if you already read it;but

.. So I e-mailed Connect; and received this response
"It seems that you used the MBC to report this through the CPP; at this
time; there is NO way for you to access this information. We are aware of
the situation;and a team is looking at the possibility of providing that
information; in the future. Thank You."

Which is strange; because using the same exact methods; MBC report; in
IE7; there was no "Unauthorized" page. And furthermore, the IE7 public beta
2 ;had itself; millions of participants.

Which, is MSFT's prerogative;to let ppl view; I understand that point.
But; it is;by their own admission;limited access;to private beta only
..
And; yes; there IS further information on Connect;that is not in the
e-mail;in regards to comments;actions taken etc. in regards to bugs.
Which; again; at this point; is accessible to private beta ppl;and not
public.

This is a beta;But; this is easily forgotten.

And in all actuality MSFT is trying to accommodate;mostly.
But not, it seems with the Vista beta.2.
Which again;is their right.
Lest anyone forget;or not know;the bottom line; it's their product.

And;not for your sake;but for other's who may read this post;

Ford,GM; Toyota etc. don't let the public test their prototype vehicles
before releasing them to market;
so why should MSFT.

All in all;very nice of them to do

Jeff
 
Geez. Our site has about 100 visitors (not HITS, VISITORS. LOL) per day
and I have to do things that way. We have to go through that sequence at
LEAST 3 times for each new thing we add to the system. (Especially
considering that we test and change to be compatible with all of the top 4
browsers. Everytime one looks good in IE, there's something screwy in
Opera; when we get Opera looking okay we have to fix it for AOL; etc., etc.,
etc.) It's hard enough to get it the way we have it and simply looking
DECENT in all of the 4...
 
It's their product, Jeff, and many of us can evaluate it and influence
whether it gets bought and deployed based on our detailed knowledge of it
and their lack of integrity in developing it or making fixes known because
they want to shove them under the rug and hide that they're doing it.

A lot more of it is going to stay their product rather than get in the
hands of perspective customers than than they are anticipating.

CH
 
"As stated before"
Funny you should say this because I cannot find any previous posts from you.
 
Jeff said:
Jimmy,
This is the last I post about this; and in my experience;you are
partially right.
However; I'll just repost this part;if ya don't mind;-from you;
Now, if you DO file a bug report, you will get an e-mail (if you did
not
Yes that's correct. but not comments; those are in the feedback on
Connect.
But here's were Vista veers off the track; as I can access any bug report
that I filed; in the IE7 public beta.(ergo;the mechanism to do this;is
already in place)
But not;it seems in the Vista CPP
The e-mail had the bug feedback i.d and the direct link to view it.
(And btw; said; to view this info -click the link)
When I tried to go to that link; it sent me to a "You are not authorized
to access this page" screen.
Pardon this last part; if you already read it;but

. So I e-mailed Connect; and received this response
"It seems that you used the MBC to report this through the CPP; at this
time; there is NO way for you to access this information. We are aware of
the situation;and a team is looking at the possibility of providing that
information; in the future. Thank You."

Which is strange; because using the same exact methods; MBC report; in
IE7; there was no "Unauthorized" page. And furthermore, the IE7 public
beta 2 ;had itself; millions of participants.

Which, is MSFT's prerogative;to let ppl view; I understand that point.
But; it is;by their own admission;limited access;to private beta only
.
And; yes; there IS further information on Connect;that is not in the
e-mail;in regards to comments;actions taken etc. in regards to bugs.
Which; again; at this point; is accessible to private beta ppl;and not
public.

This is a beta;But; this is easily forgotten.

And in all actuality MSFT is trying to accommodate;mostly.
But not, it seems with the Vista beta.2.
Which again;is their right.
Lest anyone forget;or not know;the bottom line; it's their product.

And;not for your sake;but for other's who may read this post;

Ford,GM; Toyota etc. don't let the public test their prototype vehicles
before releasing them to market;
so why should MSFT.

All in all;very nice of them to do

Jeff
Click to expand...

I pursued he issue a step farther, Jeff, Chad et al. I emailed Connect's
help team and I received an email back that CPP members are not included in
the elite group at this time but that the Connect team was considering
changing that.

Here is their response, in its entirety (Please note the last sentence):

"
Hello,

Thank you for contacting Microsoft Connect Help ([email protected]) and
for your interest in testing Microsoft products!

Our records indicate you are not registered for the Longhorn/Vista beta
through an invitation that was provided through the Microsoft Connect site.
The Longhorn team appreciates the feedback provided by individuals who
received their betas from alternate sources. Our system auto generates a
response to everyone who submits feedback. Unfortunately, only the testers
who are registered through Microsoft Connect have access privileges to
review our feedback. In fairness to those outside of our betas, this issue
is being looked at.

Microsoft Connect Help Team"
 
BillD said:
Please, don't say stupidities!!!! Because there's a huge performance
improvements from beta2 (5384) to 5472.
Click to expand...

Yeah, when a OS crawls to a halt, finding locals in a network.. that's great
and normal. There is a api issue with MS Paint and Word 2007, and I bet I can
get vista to BSOD in no time flat. wow a polished gui, that's where it counts.

I, has well as alot of people, remember the dread and horror of Windows ME.
I'd love to be using vista, but I won't paying $700 if it turns out to be a
just like Windows ME.
 
Mark,
Hi,
Thx,
Thats the exact response I received also; in addition to my initial
inqury of why;
The stuff I posted was part of that e-mail; and it also included the part
you posted.
Good to know;it's not just me.
Jeff
 
Back
Top