SP2 related woes: list any you find here

[ToolPackinMama]

No problems here on my LAN and I have had it for a week,
last night I wipe a HP 522a clean for a mate who had has nothing but
trouble with it since he bought it, got rid of their hidden partion
and shit, installed XP SPK2 connected it to my router/switch to
download video/sound drivers etc. easy as pie and not a hitch...I use
Sygate Pro Firewall and AVG Pro antivirus and all works great...(I
think the secret is to not use XP firewall..just disable it)

Hmm.

 

[ToolPackinMama]

It works fine from a bootable CD/Floppy. The Windows version of it
doesn't work.

I am a little confused about what you mean by that. Please clarify?

 

[ToolPackinMama]

I am constantly puzzled by the continuous negative comments such as the one
expressed by "Lordy" as well as frequent misinformation that I come across
on the various newsgroups that deprecate Symantec's Norton Ghost program. My
experience with that program has been, and continues to be, completely
counter to the negative views expressed by so many posters. I have often
remarked that I wish every software program I use was as simple,
straightforward, and effective as Symantec's Norton Ghost program. Let me
state at the outset that I use Ghost for one and only one purpose - to clone
the contents of one hard drive to another. By making a bit-for-bit copy (not
technically precise perhaps, but correct for all practical purposes) of one'
s working hard drive, you have, what seems to me, the ultimate backup
system.

Well, that's the idea, yes?

I have used various versions of Ghost over the years, including the
present 2003 version. During that time I estimate I've cloned various hard
drives more than a thousand times. And done so with nary a hiccup. Ghost's
ease of use together with reasonable speed make it a joy to use.

BTW, I've had no difficulty cloning hard drives containing the XP SP2 OS
since installing SP2 a few days ago.

Hmm. Very interesting.

 

[ToolPackinMama]

My particular nightmare was due to one horrible sequence of events ...

1. No W98 MS-DOS Boot Floppy to hand.
2. PC-DOS boot floppy didnt work on Dell machine.

3. Me Thinking that the backup "via Windows" option would somehow work
differently not realising it simply modifies the boot record and creates
Weird Virtual Partitions at the end of a real partition.

(At this point my Spider senses did start a tingling but I was tired and
I trusted Ghost not to cause me any pain)

4. PC Subsequently fails to boot
5. All rescue options fail (ghrecover (or something like that),
FIXMBR etc nothing worked.
6. Booting with a Knoppix CD and using fdisk showed some of the horrible
stuff ghost did.

Thank you for your testimony.

 

[ToolPackinMama]

<snip advert for Ghost>

Personally I prefer BootIT. Far better than Ghost, nice GUI, fits on a
floppy, does partitioning including nix partitions and clones drives
too. Best part is it costs shitloads less than Ghost.

Hmm...!

 

[ToolPackinMama]

Can we try to stay on-topic? I'm curious to know if you had post-SP2
problems, and if so, what they were - especially if you have a solution.

 

[ToolPackinMama]

Look, I'll be blunt: I was picking up some Chinese take-out tonight,
and I overheard a nice-looking tattooed geek boy complaining to his pals
about all the progams that are broken by SP2... many of them MICROSOFT
programs, he emphasized. Is it true, or false? Comments?

 

[Lordy]

To use the Ghost cloning program from a floppy (as I do), you simply
create the Ghost boot floppy from the Ghost program.

As I said towards the end of my prior post :

1. No W98 MS-DOS Boot Floppy to hand.
2. PC-DOS boot floppy didnt work on Dell machine.

Ghost uses PC-DOS if you dont have a W98 MS-DOS boot image to hand. It was
this that the Dell box didnt like (or vice versa) when loading the mouse
drivers IIRC. PC-DOS is a MS-DOS clone (or rival cant remember which). PC-
DOS was hanging and there was no simple way to get back the MBR (I tried
the ways recommened at Norton site when this problem happens - and on the
forums there it still didnt fix things. neither did FIXMBR etc)

On other boards PC-DOS has been no problems.

 

[Lordy]

All this talk about altering the MBR, creating virtual partitions,

Ghost 2003 has an option to backup without using a boot floppy,
its nice and point'n'clicky - but if it goes wrong your system (or at least
your partition table and MBR) get hosed. This is a bad strategy for backup
software. Because you use boot floppys you have avoided this user friendly
feature.

I use boot floppies too - except in this case PC-DOS (the DOS used by
GHOST) didnt work on the Dell bespoke mobo (for reasons I havent looked
into) - thats when I tried the (backup without boot floppy option)

Linux Kernels, Knoppix CDs, partimage, "defragging" NTFS partitions, etc.
are beyond my comprehension.

OK

 

[David Maynard]

David Maynard wrote:




I have no anti-Microsoft agenda, actually. I'm just a humble PC tech
who wants info about the problems my people might run into.

I didn't mean you, or anyone else who hears a 'rumor' for that matter. It's
just the nature of the beast, as well as general human nature, that rumors
circulate due to insufficient knowledge of what the actual problem is.

 

[David Maynard]

I am a little confused about what you mean by that. Please clarify?

There are two ways to run ghost: From a boot floppy or from within windows
while windows is running.

Apparently something in XP's new 'security' features interferes with some
of the things ghost wants to do.

When booted and run from the floppy there is no windows running to
interfere with it.

 

[Lordy]

Thank you for your testimony.

FWIW this was before SP2!

 

[ToolPackinMama]

Ghost 2003 has an option to backup without using a boot floppy,
its nice and point'n'clicky - but if it goes wrong your system (or at least
your partition table and MBR) get hosed. This is a bad strategy for backup
software.

I totally agree.

Because you use boot floppys you have avoided this user friendly
feature.

I still think that every PC should have a floppy drive. Am I wrong?

 

[ToolPackinMama]

I didn't mean you, or anyone else who hears a 'rumor' for that matter. It's
just the nature of the beast, as well as general human nature, that rumors
circulate due to insufficient knowledge of what the actual problem is.

I agree, which is why I ask you guys.

 

[ToolPackinMama]

There are two ways to run ghost: From a boot floppy or from within windows
while windows is running.

Apparently something in XP's new 'security' features interferes with some
of the things ghost wants to do.

When booted and run from the floppy there is no windows running to
interfere with it.

Oh.

 

[ToolPackinMama]

FWIW this was before SP2!

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

And since then?

 

[David Maynard]

Look, I'll be blunt: I was picking up some Chinese take-out tonight,
and I overheard a nice-looking tattooed geek boy complaining to his pals
about all the progams that are broken by SP2... many of them MICROSOFT
programs, he emphasized. Is it true, or false? Comments?

That one is a classic case of the 'rumors' syndrome. It's 'true' but the
'impression' of the story I imagine most people would draw from it isn't.

It's the firewall issue. Some applications want internet access from time
to time or else they complain, or "don't work (fully)," and SP2 defaults
the firewall to on, rather than off, and if it doesn't have the 'necessary'
port enabled by default then apps trying to use the closed ports will be
unable to access the internet.

Btw, the "Best Practice" standard for firewalls *is* to install them with
nothing enabled and then manually enable only those things known to be
needed. This, of course, requires some knowledge of what's needed and is
inherently in conflict with the typical 'consumers' expectation for things
to be 'automatic'.

The 'fix' is to enable the appropriate ports in the firewall (or turn it
off, which defeats the point of having it), a perfectly normal process in
'professional' systems. Consumers, as mentioned, are not used to that
('consumer' firewalls try to detect used ports 'automatically') so things
appear to not work and the colloquial description of it being 'broken'
circulates.

 

[ToolPackinMama]

That one is a classic case of the 'rumors' syndrome. It's 'true'

So, it's true.

It's the firewall issue. Some applications want internet access from time
to time or else they complain, or "don't work (fully)," and SP2 defaults
the firewall to on, rather than off, and if it doesn't have the 'necessary'
port enabled by default then apps trying to use the closed ports will be
unable to access the internet.
Hmm.

Btw, the "Best Practice" standard for firewalls *is* to install them with
nothing enabled and then manually enable only those things known to be
needed. This, of course, requires some knowledge of what's needed and is
inherently in conflict with the typical 'consumers' expectation for things
to be 'automatic'.

The 'fix' is to enable the appropriate ports in the firewall (or turn it
off, which defeats the point of having it), a perfectly normal process in
'professional' systems.

I see. So, how does a person do that, step-by-step, precisely?

Consumers, as mentioned, are not used to that
('consumer' firewalls try to detect used ports 'automatically') so things
appear to not work and the colloquial description of it being 'broken'
circulates.

Uh, yeah. Not that I mind. I mean, it's money in the bank to me... but
only if I can FIX IT.

 

[David Maynard]

So, it's true.

Uh, snipping the rest of my sentence, where I explain why it can also be
said to be 'not' true, isn't exactly cricket.

I see. So, how does a person do that, step-by-step, precisely?

Well, you go into network connections, pick the device (local NIC, dial-up
connection, etc.) of interest and bring up it's properties. Then, under the
advanced tab you see the internet connection firewall is enabled (box
checked). Unchecking the box removes the firewall function and they all
work, since nothing is blocked, as well as opening the system up to any and
all security threats. With the box checked you see the settings button down
below. Push that and you can add/edit/delete the various port settings on
that particular device.

 

[Conor]

Look, I'll be blunt: I was picking up some Chinese take-out tonight,
and I overheard a nice-looking tattooed geek boy complaining to his pals
about all the progams that are broken by SP2... many of them MICROSOFT
programs, he emphasized. Is it true, or false? Comments?

False:

1) Some outdated versions of non MS programs don't work. These are
mainly ones that come across the DEP problem over accessing memory. It
can be worked around by disabling DEP for that particular program or
updating it to one that does work.

2) Some "features" of MS programs don't work. By features I mean doing
things the wrong way. Do it as you should and they work.

Baically programs should run. Nero6 prior to the latest release
apparently isn't SP2 compatible but I was using a 6.0.x release since
the first SP2 release candidate.