Power Supply Sizing?

[jeffc]

You can not buy it if
Who are you to judge, being ignorant of the situation, what's silly?
The trouble with info coming from these net sourceses is what is
correst. For all I know your a teeney bopper, I know there are some
very good ones, just mirroring what they heard 6th hand somewhere. How
about overlooking the $200 and look at what it buys compared to a $ 40
600 watt " Last FOR Ever Warrenty" CPU.

I never mentioned a $0 600w power supply. You just made it up. Like I
already said, there are high quality $100 power supplies. Even that is more
than enough for most home users, but no home user needs more than a quality
$100 power supply.

For instance what happens in a
older house and or wiring when the electric heat and freezer kick on
at the same time, add to that the electric hot water heater and
perhaps Suzys hair drier on the same line. Then the oven etc. etc.

Non sequitur. We're not talking about cheap crap, we're talking about
foolishly paying twice what you need to pay for quality.

 

[jeffc]

And where does it say that this product "doesn't exist", as you maintain?

I'll tell you what - why don't YOU quote from one of the 3 links you posted,
and show the $200 power supply. One of the links says that the $189 power
is the most expensive on the market. If that's true (and it was YOUR link),
then one that costs more does not exist on the market, by definition. QED

 

[jeffc]

s/b

 

[w_tom]

jeffc. You don't provide useful information. You simply
disparaged others - criticizing the price rather than
providing a better example OR even saying why that other
supply is too much. Why don't you provide a good example? Do
you fear being attacked? Do you fear being exposed as not
really understanding what is and is not a good supply? You
post is emotional conclusions. When will you post one
engineering fact?

People. This is too common among those who recommend power
supplies. Jeffc is quick to criticize while demonstrating no
grasp of technical facts. He is quick to criticize the price
of a better brand power supply and does not even provide one
logical reason for his criticism. That alone suggests this
man does not have sufficient technical knowledge. Probably
someone who feels he is an expert because he has assembled
computers - but never built any.

Those who really know something about power supplies have so
much trouble providing facts when confronted by these self
proclaimed experts. Too many readers don't immediately demand
technical reasons in every conclusion. For if they did, then
posts such as those from jeffc would immediately be ignored.

Pack Fan. From what I read, you are only buying on price.
You are setting yourself up for a fall. Power supplies can be
sold at low price by forgetting to include a long list of
essential functions. Does the supply contain those essential
functions? If it does not provide a long list of numerical
specifications, then you have no business even considering
such a supply. Missing specs are too common among supplies
that don't even meet Intel standards. They are intended for a
market represented by jeffc.

Other responsible (and technically knowledgeable) posters
have provided names of good manufacturers. How do You know?
Those manufacturers provided a long list of numerical specs.
Specifications that I suspect jeffc would not, does not and
cannot understand - based upon information he posts.

 

[ric]

I'll tell you what - why don't YOU quote from one of the 3 links you posted,
and show the $200 power supply. One of the links says that the $189 power
is the most expensive on the market. If that's true (and it was YOUR link),
then one that costs more does not exist on the market, by definition. QED

Going back to your message of November 17, *YOU* called it a $200 power
supply, not me.

Message-ID: <[email protected]>:

$200 for a power supply? That's ridiculous.

But in the spirit of debate, I direct you to:

http://www.pcpowercooling.com/prices/index.htm

Quite a few choices at $199, and even a couple at $369.

You were saying?

 

[ric]

Especially when it doesn't have protection against overheating, and
PCP&C said that none of their PSUs has thermal shutdown, not even as
an extra-cost option.

Who at PCP&C told you that?

 

[jeffc]

But in the spirit of debate, I direct you to:

http://www.pcpowercooling.com/prices/index.htm

Quite a few choices at $199, and even a couple at $369.

You were saying?

I was saying that advising someone to pay $200 for a power supply for a HOME
SYSTEM is ridiculous. And it is definitely NOT a "case of 'penny wise and
pound foolish.' ", as you said. A $40 power supply, maybe. $100 is PLENTY
to get a high quality power supply that will meet the needs of all but the
craziest of home systems (the system of the OP certainly does not warrant
anything crazy.)

 

[jeffc]

jeffc. You don't provide useful information. You simply
disparaged others - criticizing the price rather than
providing a better example OR even saying why that other
supply is too much. Why don't you provide a good example? Do
you fear being attacked? Do you fear being exposed as not
really understanding what is and is not a good supply? You
post is emotional conclusions. When will you post one
engineering fact?

I haven't heard anything but hypocrisy by you, so far. Ironic, huh?

People. This is too common among those who recommend power
supplies. Jeffc is quick to criticize while demonstrating no
grasp of technical facts. He is quick to criticize the price
of a better brand power supply and does not even provide one
logical reason for his criticism.

You can't read. You can buy a high quality power supply that fits the needs
of virtually all home users for $100. $200 is DEFINITELY NOT REQUIRED, and
advising the OP to spend that much is irresponsible. Read the
(professional) reviews on the power supplies in question and you'll find
what you need to know. Yes, there are 500w power supplies that cost $40 and
fry as soon as they reach 400 watts, because they were rated at unrealistics
operating temperatures, or unrealistic balances of voltages on the different
rails. But you have not seen my recommend any such power supply, have you?

They are intended for a market represented by jeffc.

Plenty of attacks and emotions for someone who claims to hate it.

Other responsible (and technically knowledgeable) posters
have provided names of good manufacturers. How do You know?
Those manufacturers provided a long list of numerical specs.
Specifications that I suspect jeffc would not, does not and
cannot understand - based upon information he posts.

Plenty of attacks, yet ironically not one smidge useful information to the
OP. There are plenty of recommended power supplies that cost far less than
$200. Then Antec True 380 (380 watts) has been show to deliver 470 watts
when tested, and the Verax (AKA Fortron) FSP-300 (300 watts) has been shown
to deliver 390 watts, so there are definitely quality power supplies out
there. The SeaSonic Super Silencer 400 is *highly* efficient (measured at
very close to 80% in the tests I've seen), same as the Tornado, and
therefore run cool requiring little fan action, and both of these are in the
$65-100 range. Quality companies rate their power supplies conservatively,
and at realistic voltage mixes, and at realistic operating temperatures.
Read some reviews and you'll find which companies these are, and then you
can generally trust their specs, or at least interpret them intelligently.
Keep in mind that just because your system adds up to a xxx wattage
requirement, you will rarely if ever need that total. So a power supply
rated at, for example, 460 watts, like the Super Silencer 460, will have a
higher peak wattage, such 520, in case there are surges of demand at certain
times.

 

[jeffc]

But in the spirit of debate, I direct you to:

http://www.pcpowercooling.com/prices/index.htm

Quite a few choices at $199, and even a couple at $369.

So what you're saying is that the information in the link YOU PROVIDED is
erroneous? It stated that $189 is the most expensive power supply on the
market. Please forgive me if I don't put much value in any more links you
provide as "evidence" to bolster your point.

 

[jeffc]

If you want to be overly cautious you could use the Antec 550 Watt
True-Power PSU. It's a meaty beast that will drive very large loads for
prolonged periods; it's conservatively rated.

Uh oh, watch out... ric and tomw are gonna get you. Sure, it's meaty, a
beast, can drive large loads for prolonged periods, and conservatively
rated.... but dammit man! It's only $100! Don't you know that if don't
spend $200 on a power supply, you're being "penny-wise and pound foolish"?!!

 

[ric]

I was saying that advising someone to pay $200 for a power supply for a HOME
SYSTEM is ridiculous.

No, you have repeatedly said that a $200 power supply does not exist.

No one likes a "Usenet moving target."

 

[ric]

So what you're saying is that the information in the link YOU PROVIDED is
erroneous? It stated that $189 is the most expensive power supply on the
market. Please forgive me if I don't put much value in any more links you
provide as "evidence" to bolster your point.

Out of date, perhaps. The additions of the $199 versions of the TC 510
occurred well after the initial $189 model. Hell, two models are on sale
for $197.10. They didn't mention that, either. Yellow journalism.

Prices are constantly changing. For you to use *that* as your sole fault
with the site information only exposes your red face. Somebody with a
little class would gracefully admit their mistake and move on.

 

[jeffc]

No, you have repeatedly said that a $200 power supply does not exist.

No one likes a "Usenet moving target."

Ric, you just don't get it. I did not say a $200 power supply does not
exist. I said ACCORDING TO THE SITE YOU POSTED, a $200 power supply does
not exist. Since you are being dense, I will spell it out. THE WEB SITE
YOU POSTED AS EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOUR SIDE OF THE ARGUMENT IS *WRONG*.
That was my point. Everyone knows you can find power supplies for more than
$189, which is what THAT SITE said was the MOST EXPENSIVE POWER SUPPLY ON
THE MARKET.

 

[jeffc]

Prices are constantly changing. For you to use *that* as your sole fault
with the site information only exposes your red face. Somebody with a
little class would gracefully admit their mistake and move on.

My mistake? What exactly was my "mistake", "ric"? Challenging your advice
that to packfan, that any power supply under $200 is "penny wise and pound
foolish"? Sorry, you're wrong. If you want to buy a $200 power supply, be
my guest. Hell, I might even buy one myself some day. I'm sure it's an
excellent power supply. But I would never tell someone they need to spend
more than $100 to get a quality power supply. That's irresponsible. Now
how about if YOU admit to packfan that you were wrong, and that is after all
NOT foolish to buy a quality, $100 power supply?

 

[larrymoencurly]

Who at PCP&C told you that?

I don't remember the exact person, but I got the information in an
e-mail response from PCP&C, maybe 1-2 months ago, and I had asked only
about their ATX PSUs, so maybe their redundant and server PSUs have
that feature. But Tom's most recent PSU test said that only 2 of 13
PSUs tested had thermal protection(Chieftec and Verax,
www6.tomshardware.com/howto/20030609/power_supplies-09.html), and
neither was PCP&C (their 400W Ultra-Silent suffered damage when
overloaded to 435W).

 

[ric]

Ric, you just don't get it. I did not say a $200 power supply does not
exist. I said ACCORDING TO THE SITE YOU POSTED, a $200 power supply does
not exist. Since you are being dense, I will spell it out. THE WEB SITE
YOU POSTED AS EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOUR SIDE OF THE ARGUMENT IS *WRONG*.

I did not post the URL's as evidence that $200 PSUs existed, and no one
with average reading skills would think that I did. The review URLs were
posted to prove my point that there *is* interest in such supplies. YOU
were the one that first put a $200 tag on such supplies.

Re-read Message-ID: <[email protected]>:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

$200 for a power supply? That's ridiculous.

For you? Probably. For many others? Not at all.

http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/reviews/envynews/index.html
http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/reviews/pcstats/index.htm
http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/reviews/xt_overclocking/index.html

 

[ric]

My mistake? What exactly was my "mistake", "ric"? Challenging your advice
that to packfan, that any power supply under $200 is "penny wise and pound
foolish"?

Again, you are incorrect. I never said that. What I *did* say:

"IMO, not enough $$$ is put into the equipment to power these high end
systems. A definite case of "penny wise and pound foolish."

And the above statement is quite true.

Please try to quote me more accurately.

Sorry, you're wrong. If you want to buy a $200 power supply, be
my guest. Hell, I might even buy one myself some day. I'm sure it's an
excellent power supply. But I would never tell someone they need to spend
more than $100 to get a quality power supply. That's irresponsible.

And I never said the above, either.

Now
how about if YOU admit to packfan that you were wrong, and that is after all
NOT foolish to buy a quality, $100 power supply?

As soon as you show me where I said that. Quotes and message IDs, please.

 

[jeffc]

I did not post the URL's as evidence that $200 PSUs existed, and no one
with average reading skills would think that I did. The review URLs were
posted to prove my point that there *is* interest in such supplies. YOU
were the one that first put a $200 tag on such supplies.

No, packfan did. He said he wouldn't want to spend $199. You told him in
that case he was penny wise and pound FOOLISH. And you posting a link of a
review - that contained OBVIOUS misinformation - is by no means an
indication that they are popular - or in your words that "many others" would
find an appropriate amount to spend on a power supply. Still waiting for
info on that assertion.

 

[jeffc]

Again, you are incorrect. I never said that. What I *did* say:

"IMO, not enough $$$ is put into the equipment to power these high end
systems. A definite case of "penny wise and pound foolish."

And the above statement is quite true.

Please try to quote me more accurately.

You recommended a $200 power supply. packfan said
"Unfortunately, cost is a pretty significant factor for me."
Then you said "Your decision. IMO, not enough $$$ is put into the equipment
to power
these high end systems. A definite case of "penny wise and pound foolish.""

So, how do you explain that?

 

[ric]

But Tom's most recent PSU test said that only 2 of 13
PSUs tested had thermal protection(Chieftec and Verax,
www6.tomshardware.com/howto/20030609/power_supplies-09.html), and
neither was PCP&C (their 400W Ultra-Silent suffered damage when
overloaded to 435W).

I'll have to spend more time traipsing through that article, but two
things bother me at the page you provided:

1) They constantly call the company "PC Cooling." The name of the company
to which I refer is "PC Power & Cooling."
2) They constantly call the power supply the "Ultra-Silent." PC Power &
Cooling's supply is called the "Silencer."

Are you sure they were talking about PC Power & Cooling's "Silencer" ??