in vb6 we have InStr ,and in vb.net ?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Daylor
  • Start date Start date
And don't bother replying to this one either, it needn't be done, I do not
have enough time to thread watch at the moment. Unless of course someone
wants to complain about *me*, then fair enough! But I have said my bit and
we *all* deserve that! :-D

Nick.

--
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
"No matter. Whatever the outcome, you are changed."

Fergus - September 5th 2003
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
 
* "Nak said:
Fergus has a bit of a point there, and maybe you are being a little ignorant
in your choice of phrases. It seems a bit strange that you are playing that
card, if you want to express something to Fergus, express it, don't just say
it indirectly to attempt to keep your reputation in the newsgroup.

You might want to consider one thing, most people that ask for help in the
group, don't always come back, it's like a one off question, off the cuff.
So saying that those people don't generally see the *community* in the
group, which I am sure exists. On the other hand *we* (the regulars) see
quite allot and can have reasons to believe when people are being "toll
like".

Herfried, all I am trying to say is just because you are the "regular of
regulars" here, does not mean that you never act like a troll, because you
have in the past and are likely to again in the future. If I am going by
your definition of a troll, *everyone* does it once in a while, and I am
being toll like now!

Everybody can use a quote in his signature. Some do, some do not. If I
reply to a message, it shows that I do not think that the person is an
idiot.

;-)
It would be an idea picking a quote that wouldn't cause conflict, if you

It doesn't cause conflict. Fergus has, for some unknown reason, a
problem with it. He should try to cope with the problem.
My personal opinion is that Fergus puts more forethrought into answering
questions than you do, and his answers are not only answers, they are
explanations. Sometimes you pass people to German pages 'and / or' with
simply an URL as an answer, which personally I don't always find
particularly helpful, as do many others. Just because Fergus is
*relatively* new, does not mean that you can't show respect to him. Respect

It seems that you didn't read my other posts. I show respect for Fergus
and his knowledge.
[x] You have a problem with me.
[ ] I have a problem with you.

Try to change this, then everything will be OK.

How about you make a conscious effort to *not* annoy Fergus? I am sure he

I do not annoy Fergus. If he thinks he is an idiot, then it's his
problem. Not mine.
just because you are the "regular of regulars", does *not* mean that it is
right!

Who says that I am the "regular of regulars"?!

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
<http://www.mvps.org/dotnet>

Dilbert's words of wisdom #18: Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down
to their level then beat you with experience.
 
* "Fergus Cooney said:
My answer is in microsoft.public.nntp.test

I am not interested in your answer and I am not interested in a
discussion about this topic. As stated previously, it's up to you to
understand that I didn't include the quote because of you.

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
<http://www.mvps.org/dotnet>

Dilbert's words of wisdom #18: Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down
to their level then beat you with experience.
 
* "William Ryan said:
There's a dude over in C# and .NET General named JohnBailo, or jbailo
sometimes. he's the troll of all trolls. We should direct all feuds to him
;-)

;-)

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
<http://www.mvps.org/dotnet>

Dilbert's words of wisdom #18: Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down
to their level then beat you with experience.
 
Hi William,

Can you not redirect a time him to this group.

I love to go in a debat again once.

With the guys here I only can do it with Herfried.

With the others we agree mostly with each others in 5 lines.

And because of that Fergus/Herfried conflict I cannot even do it with
Herfried now.

:-))

Cor
 
Herfried K. Wagner said:
Everybody can use a quote in his signature. Some do, some do not. If I
reply to a message, it shows that I do not think that the person is an
idiot.

Uhhh Herfried... we all understand the legal issue here and your right to
use a quote. Nobody for a minute believes that your "idiot gauge" operates
by watching whether you reply or not.
It doesn't cause conflict. Fergus has, for some unknown reason, a
problem with it. He should try to cope with the problem.

The reason (like so many human nature issues) is only mysterious to you.

(When Nak wrote:)
(You replied:)
It seems that you didn't read my other posts. I show respect for Fergus
and his knowledge.

He did read your replies, I read your replies. Fergus (and others) do put
more thought into their replies. You will always disagree because if you
point somebody to a German page they can't read "they" are the dumb ones for
not understanding you.

For gosh sakes, Nak has pointed out a simple fact as have many others and
for "some unknown reason" you cannot even acknowledge it. They are wrong,
so am I, so is everybody who disagrees with you. This is where you reply
with "Plonk" by the way.
I do not annoy Fergus. If he thinks he is an idiot, then it's his
problem. Not mine.

Oh... that one was clever. Don't let anybody tell you that you can't
deliver the one-liners. Bammo, to the point. Most of us have never seen
anybody quite as quick as you... just another one of your numerous talents.
Comedy Central watchout. How do you do it?
Who says that I am the "regular of regulars"?!

Ah "Debate 101" question the questioner. All this talent in a 16 year
old...
 
Herfried K. Wagner said:
?!?

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
<http://www.mvps.org/dotnet>

Dilbert's words of wisdom #18: Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down
to their level then beat you with experience.

Here I'll translate:
He knows you've backed yourself into a corner and you'll never simply say
"that was dopey" and move on with your life.

--
Tom Leylan
MVP of neither VB Classic or VB.NET

dotnet.languages.vb words of wisdom #5: Never try to explain something to
Herfried.. He understand what he wants, when he wants. You're just wrong.
 
Tom,

There are a lot of international readers comming here, who don't have a
problem with German pages although it is not there national language.

I have looked at those pages and when you go to the examples, it has to be
usable for people who know more than one language (Reading German is very
easy for me, so maybe I am wrong but I doubt it).

Therefore I don't find it an isue to make that a part from the discussion
here.

It goes about the respect of Fergus and Herfried for each other.

Fergus has said he needs some time because he is very angry, so please give
him that.

I will try to correct (help) Herfried on my way and if I have the thought
Fergus does needs that help Fergus too.

When Herfried wants to give an example on a German page, let another one
give another example as an alternative or keep his mouth. It is the reader
who decide what he want. Take it or leave it, Herfried never said they have
to use it.

I agree with him, when he once said something like "Even if it was on a
Chinese page and I did need it, I would try if I could understand it".

And please Herfried and Fergus no comments from you both?

Cor
 
* "Tom Leylan said:
Uhhh Herfried... we all understand the legal issue here and your right to
use a quote. Nobody for a minute believes that your "idiot gauge" operates
by watching whether you reply or not.
;-)


The reason (like so many human nature issues) is only mysterious to you.

Don't tell me that... I have enough experience in working with users and
using scientific methods to capture and analyze their behavior.
(When Nak wrote:)

(You replied:)

He did read your replies, I read your replies. Fergus (and others) do put
more thought into their replies.

I won't be able to write a large story into my post because my English
isn't good enough to do that. Sometimes I misunderstand things. I
would be happy if you would tolerate that.
You will always disagree because if you
point somebody to a German page they can't read "they" are the dumb ones for
not understanding you.

Really interesting. We already had this discussion (at least once).
Everybody here should be able to understand VB.NET/C# code even if it's
part of a German language website. I try to write my code as intuitive
as possible in order to enable people to understand it even if they
cannot understand the comments. And: if one of them has a question,
he/she is free to ask me. I will explain it in English as good as
possible.

I never called someone to be "dumb" because he didn't understand a
German page. I appreciate it if somebody who has problems in
understanding it asks for more help/a translation.

Keyword: "Language Barrier".
For gosh sakes, Nak has pointed out a simple fact as have many others and
for "some unknown reason" you cannot even acknowledge it.
What?

They are wrong, so am I, so is everybody who disagrees with you.

I don't think that you disagree with me. I think you don't really
understand me and I don't really understand you because you use words I
misunderstand and I use words you don't understand with the same
connotiation I have.
This is where you reply with "Plonk" by the way.

I reply with *PLONK* in _rare_ cases.

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
<http://www.mvps.org/dotnet>

Dilbert's words of wisdom #18: Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down
to their level then beat you with experience.
 
* "Tom Leylan said:
[...]
Here I'll translate:
He knows you've backed yourself into a corner and you'll never simply say
"that was dopey" and move on with your life.

I don't understand the meaning of "dopey". Google is not able to
translate it and I didn't hear it before.

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
<http://www.mvps.org/dotnet>

Dilbert's words of wisdom #18: Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down
to their level then beat you with experience.
 
Herfried K. Wagner said:
Don't tell me that... I have enough experience in working with users and
using scientific methods to capture and analyze their behavior.

Well don't try to psychoanalyze other people then. You plainly don't have
"enough" experience or you wouldn't be posting the excuses you do. And,
"users" aren't going to challenge you, they think you know what you're
doing.
I won't be able to write a large story into my post because my English
isn't good enough to do that. Sometimes I misunderstand things. I
would be happy if you would tolerate that.

A large story isn't what is missing here. What is missing is you willing to
read and think about what other people post. You immediately form a
rebuttal argument, you come up with legal reasons why "anybody" can add a
quote to their response and when all else fails you pretend you don't
understand the language. You've done this ten times so far.

Misunderstanding isn't a language issue BTW. People misunderstand stuff in
their native language all the time. Most people can handle it.
Really interesting. We already had this discussion (at least once).
Everybody here should be able to understand VB.NET/C# code even if it's
part of a German language website. I try to write my code as intuitive
as possible in order to enable people to understand it even if they
cannot understand the comments. And: if one of them has a question,
he/she is free to ask me. I will explain it in English as good as
possible.

Again you miss the point. I didn't complain, somebody else did... they
pointed out how your terse replies and pointing to MSDN pages might not work
for everybody. Nak mentioned the German pages, I haven't see it happen.
You ignore his point, you attack the "details". If he wrote "you did <blah>
20 times" you would likely count them up and post "no I only did it 18
times" rather than ever write "I guess that could be confusing."

"Everybody here" isn't going to be fluent enough in VB.Net to translate
German comments or variable names. But that isn't the point that Nak was
trying to make, you just pat yourself on the back and ignore every
constructive reply you get when it doesn't suit you. Everybody here is
trying to help you aren't alone in that regard.

See?
 
Cor said:
There are a lot of international readers comming here, who don't have a
problem with German pages although it is not there national language.

There is no problem. I didn't complain about German pages, Nak posted it.
Part of being "helpful" is listening to the response of people who one is
trying to help. When (or if) those people write "I don't get it" I tend to
believe they don't get it. :-)

I used to speak at computer conferences. If 50% of the people came up
afterward and told me they were lost I am certain I wouldn't think it was
their problem, I would think it was mine and that I had misjudged the
audience.

Come to think of it, it even happened once. It was only a user-group
meeting but after my talk I could see the blank stares. I asked "nobody
here has the faintest idea what I'm talking about right?" They didn't.
 
How curious... I searched for "dopey" and on the first page there was a link
to HyperDictionary with a definition.

You plainly find only what you want to find when you want to find it. But
if you are as attuned to the "user" as you claimed it seems equally curious
that you a) can't figure out what the guy meant and that you respond with
?!?

It's been fun playing... I sure don't believe anything you write any
longer...


Herfried K. Wagner said:
* "Tom Leylan said:
Ignore this, I already know.

?!?
[...]
Here I'll translate:
He knows you've backed yourself into a corner and you'll never simply say
"that was dopey" and move on with your life.

I don't understand the meaning of "dopey". Google is not able to
translate it and I didn't hear it before.

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
<http://www.mvps.org/dotnet>

Dilbert's words of wisdom #18: Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down
to their level then beat you with experience.
 
Tom,
I told you I understand the samples and I am sure you don't want to call me
nobody.

That the used language of this group is English, does not mean that it give
some extra to the ones who only speak English, it is of course a pitty that
for those there is not a En newsgroup for those.

But there are also no NL, DK, NO etc group, and we don't complain for an
German sample in an International group.

When someone has a part of code in Danish, so what, I can see the keywords.

(No problem if you come in this discussion Fergus and Herfried for me).

:-)

Cor
 
Cor said:
Tom,
I told you I understand the samples and I am sure you don't want to call me
nobody.

There is some confusion. I didn't intend to call anybody "nobody" whatever
that might mean. Just to attempt to clarify "I didn't start the German
posting thing" I replied to a reply that mentioned the German posting thing.
If it isn't an issue then the guy who posted it should be receiving your
replies. I also understand most samples and if I didn't I would look for
alternatives or clarification.
When someone has a part of code in Danish, so what, I can see the
keywords.

I don't know and I would have to guess but... I think "Nak" was trying to
point out the difference between responding in a conversational mode (that
promotes learning) and posting a URL to a page in a foreign language at some
website. If you check every message I've ever posted I haven't once asked
anybody who pointed me to a German coding example to point me to another
one.

You're asking the wrong person about their problem with examples in a
foreign language. Contact "Nak" and ask him why it was an issue if you need
further clarification, the best I can do is guess.

Something seems to be up... tell me what it is I can do for you. Everything
suddenly seems to be some coded reference to something else? Why do you
think that Herfried chose to place the quote he did, when he did on his
responses?
 
Tom,

All clear as always between you and me of course.

But that language isue is for me a big isue.

And although it is for me: "don't come on Nick" and with Nick the same about
me, we don't argue with each other here, because we understand each other to
fast wrong.

But let us give Herfried and Fergus some time.

The only thing Fergus had to do was pointing his middle finger in the air,
because he did know what probably most people in this newsgroup (from me he
was sure) where thinking about that quoting and zip discussion but either
Fergus or I are persons who act in that way.

I am almost sure they both (Fergus and Herfried) mean it very well, but
sometimes both wants like most people things on the wrong time.

Fergus and I are on one line of thinking and I think Armin and Herfried also
with us, but they think in details a little bit else than Fergus and me, but
both Fergus and I have a lot of respect for those two, but now you can see
Fergus don't know how to behave with the behaviour from Herfried and
Herfried not with Fergus.

And while Herfried has normaly no problem to say "Sorry". I think this time
because Fergus went a little bit to far with showing Herfried that he could
do better than the bad words as "spammer" which which Herfried was using.
But a pity was that the words Fergus was using in the German language are
very bad for German speaking people.

You see it I try to be a counceller again (word I learned from Fergus).

But it would not work before 14 days, so please Tom, help us do the same as
Armin and me try to leave the discussion between those 2 for a while?.

Cor
 
* "Tom Leylan said:
A large story isn't what is missing here. What is missing is you willing to
read and think about what other people post.

Sorry, that's nonsense. I do not want to psychoanalyze people in a
technical group. There are other newsgroups which are related to
psychology etc.
rebuttal argument, you come up with legal reasons why "anybody" can add a
quote to their response and when all else fails you pretend you don't
understand the language. You've done this ten times so far.

You missed the point: Everybody can add a quote to her/his posts. And
there are language barriers, have a look at Cor's explanation.
Again you miss the point. I didn't complain, somebody else did... they
pointed out how your terse replies and pointing to MSDN pages might not work
for everybody.

An MSDN page helps in more than 99% of the questions.
Nak mentioned the German pages, I haven't see it happen.

I rarely post links to German pages, even not to explanations which are
written in German because that doesn't male sense. Nevertheless, VB.NET
code which is commented in German can be helpful.
You ignore his point, you attack the "details". If he wrote "you did <blah>
20 times" you would likely count them up and post "no I only did it 18
times" rather than ever write "I guess that could be confusing."

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean.
"Everybody here" isn't going to be fluent enough in VB.Net to translate
German comments or variable names.

I _never_ posted code/a link to code with German variable names. I
_hate_ German variable names. As mentioned previously, IMO even code
commented in _Chinese_ may be helpful if useful variable names are
used. And I am convinced that even English speaking people who do not
understand German will find a "Download" (we use the same word like in
English) link on a German language page.

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
<http://www.mvps.org/dotnet>

Improve your quoting style:
<http://learn.to/quote>
<http://www.plig.net/nnq/nquote.html>
 
* "Tom Leylan said:
There is no problem. I didn't complain about German pages, Nak posted it.
Part of being "helpful" is listening to the response of people who one is
trying to help. When (or if) those people write "I don't get it" I tend to
believe they don't get it. :-)

.... and in these cases help will be provided...
I used to speak at computer conferences. If 50% of the people came up
afterward and told me they were lost I am certain I wouldn't think it was
their problem, I would think it was mine and that I had misjudged the
audience.

Come to think of it, it even happened once. It was only a user-group
meeting but after my talk I could see the blank stares. I asked "nobody
here has the faintest idea what I'm talking about right?" They didn't.

:-)

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
<http://www.mvps.org/dotnet>

Improve your quoting style:
<http://learn.to/quote>
<http://www.plig.net/nnq/nquote.html>
 
Hi there,

I didn't really *want* to seem like I'm stoking a fire in the slightest,
but I can see plenty of tension going on here, even if people say there
isn't.

I'm going to try to *not* quote from previous threads but just explain
what I am observing at the moment. Several different points of argument are
being rolled into one, and that is not what I meant from my post.

Tom has hit the nail on the head. If you hand someone VB code with *no*
comments they will not *always* understand it unless it has been written in
a well structured and modular fashion. I, as do many others like
*understanding* code before I use it, when I ask a question in here, I do
not want someone to search on Google for me, I want someone to explain the
workings behind something. Once I have understood the workings behind code
I can quickly change and implement it in a way that best suits me, this is
the way that *I* personally like to program. I am not a copy and paste
programmer, if I use someone else's code I *always* rewrite it so that I can
understand it from the ground up.

So when you get a link to code that is written badly but has lots of
comments, the comments have to be in a language that the particular person
understands, and I have *never* once seen *anyone* ask,

"What language do you want that in?"

Why do we not ask? Because this is an English speaking newsgroup. As
Cor has so nicely pointed out, there *are* localised alternatives. There is
no point what so ever in communicating in any other language in a newsgroup
other than it's native language. Herfried is so quick to tell people where
to go if they are asking questions related to another *programming*
language, but he never tells people to go to German newsgroups if they are
speaking German!

That just goes to show a blatant flexing of authority, and believe it or
not Herfried, you *are* the "regular of regulars" because you post more
replies in here than *any* one else, is that clear? because it is as clear
as broad daylight to me, as it is *many* others.

I was not saying that Herfried is not helpful, because he is, but not
all the time. Just because someone offers help that does not make them
"helpful", that is *not* the definition of helpful. Imagine sitting in a
lecture hall in a University and someone goes to ask the lecturer a
question, the lecturer answers with one line,

"Turn to page 23"

That is *not* being helpful all the time. Some times it is, when
someone wants a quick example of how to do something quite menial. But
allot of the time people want to do things that are more complicated and
they want to get a deeper understanding, only then will explanation and
conversation rule the day.

I, as have *many* others, asked questions in here that have not even
been answered, simply because they require more time and forethought, this
is a shame, but tough luck because at the end of the day this newsgroup does
not hold *all* of the answers :-(

Anyway, enough is enough from me, Tom understood what I meant but it was
misunderstood by Cor, but never mind Cor, I have misunderstood you before,
and I have misunderstood many others before. Oh well, cest la vi!

Nick.

I could imagine the translation system that is used in Ultima Online
being used in a newsgroup, imagine that, a newsgroup where *everything* is
translated into your native language, no matter what it may be! Marvellous
bit of technology and forethought!

--
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
I got fed up with programming because it's such a
hamster wheel. I'm glad I'm back, but its still a lot
of running just to stay where you are!

:-)
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
 
Back
Top