Good inkjet for refilling?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Al Deveron
  • Start date Start date
zakezuke said:
I'm pretty sure the i560 uses bci-6 color, bci-3e big black. I "could"
be wrong but it shares the same head with the ip3000. I'm pretty sure
the i550 is the cut off point between bci-6 and bci-3e color.

As for using your old i560 ink in your new printer, as Burt as pointed
out, the major difference is in the magenta. The last time I checked
Image-Specalists used the same ink between the bci-6 and cli-8
cartridges except magenta. I'm not saying the other colors are are not
different.... only that one company which makes ink uses the same ink
except magenta. I.e. you *might* be able to get away with just buying
new dye black and new magenta and continue using your bci-3e black and
your bci-6 yellow and cyan.
Click to expand...
You are correct and I am partly in error. the
i560 ink and the iP4000 inks appear to be the same.
I just check a refiller (MIS) and that refiller
uses the same ink for the i560 as for the iP4000
but the number is different for the iP4200.

The iP4200 was advertised as having a different,
less fade resistant ink, that the older Canon
models. So if one wants an ink compatible with
the original Canon iP4200 cartridges, one needs a
different ink than that formulated for the i560
and iP4000.

That said, the iP4000 or i560 ink would probably
work in the 4200, but one would want to start with
fresh cartridges and one shouldn't expect the same
results as the original iP 4200 ink.
 
George said:
You are just lucky.
Click to expand...

Well, two things...

#1... the canon is popular enough that a 3rd party generic might be
geared for it. You're just as likely to meet something geared for HP
or Epson.

#2...Assuming it's geared for thermal... and given the application of
document printing with simple graphs and pie charts, even if the color
not 100% it might not matter.

I would also reccomend buying ink labled specificly as being made for
your printer.
 
zakezuke said:
Well, two things...

#1... the canon is popular enough that a 3rd party generic might be
geared for it. You're just as likely to meet something geared for HP
or Epson.

#2...Assuming it's geared for thermal... and given the application of
document printing with simple graphs and pie charts, even if the color
not 100% it might not matter.

I would also reccomend buying ink labled specificly as being made for
your printer.
Click to expand...
Must be I've been lucky, too. I've been using ink from a large kit I
picked up at a garage sale for about $5. It's labeled as for
"Hewlett-Packard, Lexmark and Compaq" and "Pigment Based Ink Kit." (My
testing shows that the black was pigment-based. The colors are
dye-based.) The instruction sheet included didn't mention the HP 56 and
57 carts, so it probably predates them. However, it's been doing a great
job. No clogs, great color. Even recently. The quality is good enough
that a 4x6 print of my mother holding up a nice stringer of fish was
accepted for our newspaper's "Catch of the Week" feature just two weeks
ago. BTW, that print was produced from carts that had been refilled a
good two dozen times each. The black is long gone, but I still have
about 50 ml of each color left.

TJ
 
The iP4200 was advertised as having a different,
less fade resistant ink, that the older Canon
models. So if one wants an ink compatible with
the original Canon iP4200 cartridges, one needs a
different ink than that formulated for the i560
and iP4000.
Click to expand...
The ink in the IP4200 is more fade resistant.
All the aftermarket inks that I have tried fade about
25 times faster than the Canon ink. I also have
an IP5000 that I use for all my non photo printing.
I refill it and have experienced some clogging of
the 1pl heads. Some brands of aftermarket ink
come close to matching Canon, but not exact.
Some brands don't even come close. Magenta
and Cyan are hard to match.
 
art said:
The ink in the IP4200 is more fade resistant.
All the aftermarket inks that I have tried fade about
25 times faster than the Canon ink.
Click to expand...
That is in accordance with all of the tests I have read.
I also have
an IP5000 that I use for all my non photo printing.
I refill it and have experienced some clogging of
the 1pl heads.
Click to expand...

That seems to support the many complaints I read about in this ng.
Some brands
Click to expand...

Since the relabelers will not tell you the brand it is difficult to call
them brands.
of aftermarket ink
come close to matching Canon, but not exact.
Some brands don't even come close. Magenta
and Cyan are hard to match.
Click to expand...

if you like clogging, fading, and lower quality results.

That says it all.
 
art said:
The ink in the IP4200 is more fade resistant.
All the aftermarket inks that I have tried fade about
25 times faster than the Canon ink. I also have
an IP5000 that I use for all my non photo printing.
I refill it and have experienced some clogging of
the 1pl heads.
Click to expand...

Absolutely no clogging with any of the various refill inks and
aftermarket cartridges I have used on my iP4000 and iP5000.

I did exposure tests long ago and Canon ink on Canon Photo Paper Pro
faded badly to an absurd color within a month when left unprotected in
my dining room. Since then I have been using aftermarket inks and
haven't noticed any fading on photos protected under plastic or kept
away from direct sunlight. I learned my lesson from the unprotected
photos I had earlier left in my dining room. Always protect your valued
prints and projects. Protected, my projects are as crisp as "the day
they were born" . . .

Haven't had to do any tinkering to get the colors I wanted, they're
always set to default when I print. I only print using Qimage. Wouldn't
print a photo without it. There's no comparison.

-Taliesyn
 
Taliesyn said:
Absolutely no clogging with any of the various refill inks and
aftermarket cartridges I have used on my iP4000 and iP5000.
Click to expand...


It appears that most people are having those problems and the people who
are having those problems are not associated with or have any leaning to
the relabelers who profess that stuff on a public who want to try to
save money but does not get what they pay for. Instead the get
clogging, fading, and lower quality results. So I do recognize that
there are a few associated (somehow) people who either will not admit
the truth or have failed to recognize the lower quality and fading but
who print so much that the ink fails to dry to the point of a clog.
They just claim that the printhead just wore out.
I did exposure tests long ago and Canon ink on Canon Photo Paper Pro
faded badly to an absurd color within a month when left unprotected in
my dining room.
Click to expand...


That has never happend to me.
 
Must be I've been lucky, too. I've been using ink from a large kit I
picked up at a garage sale for about $5. It's labeled as for
"Hewlett-Packard, Lexmark and Compaq" and "Pigment Based Ink Kit." (My
testing shows that the black was pigment-based. The colors are
dye-based.) The instruction sheet included didn't mention the HP 56 and
57 carts, so it probably predates them. However, it's been doing a great
job. No clogs, great color. Even recently. The quality is good enough
that a 4x6 print of my mother holding up a nice stringer of fish was
accepted for our newspaper's "Catch of the Week" feature just two weeks
ago. BTW, that print was produced from carts that had been refilled a
good two dozen times each. The black is long gone, but I still have
about 50 ml of each color left.
Click to expand...

Having just obtained a new ip4200 today, one thing I will say about
the printer's performance, using the ink supplied with the printer is
that it does seem more economical than my i560 was (which I always
used filled with "universal" refill ink). I don't know if that is due
to the ink or the printer - or both.

The colours produced by the ip4200's ink are slightly more intense
than the low-cost universal refill ink I was using before, but I don't
regard that as a particularly 'superior' quality. I rather preferred
the colour-intensity of the low-cost universal refill ink, because it
was a tad less gaudy. Photos consequently looked more natural. Just
MHO.

Al D
 
Having just obtained a new ip4200 today, one thing I will say about
the printer's performance, using the ink supplied with the printer is
that it does seem more economical than my i560 was (which I always
used filled with "universal" refill ink). I don't know if that is due
to the ink or the printer - or both.
Click to expand...

PS - I meant 'economical' in terms of amount of ink used - not
'economical' in terms of cost.
 
measekite said:
It appears that most people are having those problems and the people who
are having those problems are not associated with or have any leaning to
the relabelers who profess that stuff on a public who want to try to
save money but does not get what they pay for. Instead the get
clogging, fading, and lower quality results. So I do recognize that
there are a few associated (somehow) people who either will not admit
the truth or have failed to recognize the lower quality and fading but
who print so much that the ink fails to dry to the point of a clog.
They just claim that the printhead just wore out.
Click to expand...
Let me see if I have this straight...In order to print with aftermarket
ink without problems, you need to be "associated (somehow)" with an
aftermarket ink supplier. You also need to be a blind liar who wouldn't
know quality if he fell over it. Is that about right?

I'm interested in this print volume vs. clogging assertion. What exactly
is the print rate needed to avoid clogs with aftermarket ink? Once a
day? Once a week? Once a month? And how long can you go without printing
with OEM ink before a clog? A month? Six? A year? Forever?

Inquiring minds want to know...
That has never happend to me.
Click to expand...
Have you ever put one of your OEM prints unprotected in direct sunlight
yourself to see what happened? I'll bet you haven't. OEM prints cost too
much to destroy on purpose.

TJ
 
PS - I meant 'economical' in terms of amount of ink used - not
'economical' in terms of cost.
Click to expand...


No one has ever mistakenly associated OEM (printer maker) ink with
"economical", as in cost. LBW
 
Amazing how he just invents "facts" where none exist!

Yes, printheads have a limited life span. One only has to ask Canon.
That's why they sell you separate printheads. It's a user serviceable
part after one year.
Let me see if I have this straight...In order to print with aftermarket
ink without problems, you need to be "associated (somehow)" with an
aftermarket ink supplier. You also need to be a blind liar who wouldn't
know quality if he fell over it. Is that about right?

I'm interested in this print volume vs. clogging assertion. What exactly
is the print rate needed to avoid clogs with aftermarket ink? Once a
day? Once a week? Once a month? And how long can you go without printing
with OEM ink before a clog? A month? Six? A year? Forever?

Inquiring minds want to know...
Click to expand...

As an experienced aftermarket ink user, last year I used over 10
cartridge sets between my iP4000, iP5000, and an i860.

This year I'm preoccupied with a major non print project and I'm using
the printers very little, putting the i860 in storage. I think I've only
had two cartridge changes since last December, between two printers.

I never saw a clog then and I haven't seen a clog this year, while
printing only occasionally, and my iP5000 has the smallest printer
nozzles in the industry. I don't think you'll have any problem if you
use it, maybe just two or three times a month. My sister was away for 3
weeks on holiday and reported no clogs when she fired up the printers.
And she, like me, only uses aftermarket inks. Ignore stupid comments by
the resident troll who claims you have to be a heavy user to avoid
clogs. In other words, print so much that the ink never has time to
dry. That's nonsense - an old wives tale! You can use it as little as
you want, but do use is occasionally. Don't let it sit for months,
that's what causes clogs. Remember, the cleaning cycles "clean" and
"deep clean" were designed by Canon for THEIR OWN INKS, which they
discovered would clog if printer was left idle for "long periods",
whatever length that may be. Use common sense. If you have nothing to
print for a while, just run the occasional nozzle test page and you'll
do fine.

-Taliesyn
 
Al said:
Having just obtained a new ip4200 today, one thing I will say about
the printer's performance, using the ink supplied with the printer is
that it does seem more economical than my i560 was (which I always
used filled with "universal" refill ink). I don't know if that is due
to the ink or the printer - or both.

The colours produced by the ip4200's ink are slightly more intense
than the low-cost universal refill ink I was using before, but I don't
regard that as a particularly 'superior' quality. I rather preferred
the colour-intensity of the low-cost universal refill ink, because it
was a tad less gaudy. Photos consequently looked more natural. Just
MHO.

Al D
Click to expand...
No problem there just change in the print driver.
Uncheck "Vivid photo" in the "Effect" tab may
solve your "gaudy" problem.
 
Al said:
Having just obtained a new ip4200 today, one thing I will say about
the printer's performance, using the ink supplied with the printer is
that it does seem more economical than my i560 was (which I always
used filled with "universal" refill ink). I don't know if that is due
to the ink or the printer - or both.

The colours produced by the ip4200's ink are slightly more intense
than the low-cost universal refill ink I was using before, but I don't
regard that as a particularly 'superior' quality. I rather preferred
the colour-intensity of the low-cost universal refill ink, because it
was a tad less gaudy. Photos consequently looked more natural. Just
MHO.
Click to expand...

I prefer skintones on the ip5200 over the ip3000, which should be
similar enough to your i560 to make an observation. Casual observers
prefer the output from the ip5200 over the old ip3000. You also should
note to get the highest defination prints you need to select custom and
slide the slider over to 1, the default is not the higest resolution.

As far as being ecconomical... I don't feel that is true. I lack
accurate measurements but I seem to be dumping ink as quickly as my
ip3000, with the notable exception of the extra dye black. In this
regard the ip4000 and above would be a tad more ecconomical.
 
Taliesyn said:
Amazing how he just invents "facts" where none exist!


Yes, printheads have a limited life span. One only has to ask Canon.
That's why they sell you separate printheads. It's a user serviceable
part after one year.


As an experienced aftermarket ink user, last year I used over 10
cartridge sets between my iP4000, iP5000, and an i860.

This year I'm preoccupied with a major non print project and I'm using
the printers very little, putting the i860 in storage. I think I've only
had two cartridge changes since last December, between two printers.

I never saw a clog then and I haven't seen a clog this year, while
printing only occasionally, and my iP5000 has the smallest printer
nozzles in the industry. I don't think you'll have any problem if you
use it, maybe just two or three times a month. My sister was away for 3
weeks on holiday and reported no clogs when she fired up the printers.
And she, like me, only uses aftermarket inks. Ignore stupid comments by
the resident troll who claims you have to be a heavy user to avoid
clogs. In other words, print so much that the ink never has time to
dry. That's nonsense - an old wives tale! You can use it as little as
you want, but do use is occasionally. Don't let it sit for months,
that's what causes clogs. Remember, the cleaning cycles "clean" and
"deep clean" were designed by Canon for THEIR OWN INKS, which they
discovered would clog if printer was left idle for "long periods",
whatever length that may be. Use common sense. If you have nothing to
print for a while, just run the occasional nozzle test page and you'll
do fine.

-Taliesyn
Click to expand...

I was curious about Measekite's figures, if he has any. Of course he's
done extensive research on the subject, reading magazine reviews and
all. I've used aftermarket ink exclusively for the past two years. The
longest I've gone without printing at least the black is about 10 days.
I'm not sure about the colors, but I know it's much longer. The color
cart/heads have never clogged. The only time the black has clogged is
when I ran out of ink and didn't know it on the last print job and it
sat for a couple of days before I discovered it. Even then the clog was
easily cleared.

You know what this means, don't you? It means that by Measekite's
definition, you and I must be (somehow) associated with an aftermarket
ink supplier, and that we're both blind and liars. What are we gonna do now?

TJ
 
Absolutely no clogging with any of the various refill inks and
aftermarket cartridges I have used on my iP4000 and iP5000.
Click to expand...
A few of the nozzles on the 1pl jets on my IP5000 are clogged.
It is not obvious unless I closely examine a photo. Most people
would not see it. It does become obvious when I do an extended
nozzle print test from the printer's service menu.
I did exposure tests long ago and Canon ink on Canon Photo Paper Pro
faded badly to an absurd color within a month when left unprotected in
my dining room. Since then I have been using aftermarket inks and
haven't noticed any fading on photos protected under plastic or kept
away from direct sunlight. I learned my lesson from the unprotected
photos I had earlier left in my dining room. Always protect your valued
prints and projects. Protected, my projects are as crisp as "the day
they were born" . . .
Click to expand...
I will agree that I do not like Canon Photo Paper Pro. I like Epson
Premium Glossy Photo Paper. Others are good also. I prefer to
display my projects rather than protecting them. After 6 months the 4
aftermarket branded inks that I tried have faded beyond being pleasant
to look at. I also did a UV fade test on the 4 inks. After 1 hour
they had lost between 1/4 and 1/2 of their original intensity. The
Canon Chroma Life 100 required 25 hours of exposure to fade by the
same amount. Please tell me which brand of ink has the same fade
resistance as the CanonCL100 so that I might try it? I use
aftermarket ink for my less critical needs, but when you consider the
cost of the paper involved in doing periodic reprints the Canon ink is
the most economic for photos.

Thanks
 
art said:
A few of the nozzles on the 1pl jets on my IP5000 are clogged.
It is not obvious unless I closely examine a photo. Most people
would not see it. It does become obvious when I do an extended
nozzle print test from the printer's service menu.



I will agree that I do not like Canon Photo Paper Pro. I like Epson
Premium Glossy Photo Paper.
Click to expand...

What difference do you see?
Others are good also. I prefer to
display my projects rather than protecting them. After 6 months the 4
aftermarket branded inks that I tried have faded beyond being pleasant
to look at.
Click to expand...

That is in accordance with Wilhelm Labs
I also did a UV fade test on the 4 inks. After 1 hour
they had lost between 1/4 and 1/2 of their original intensity. The
Canon Chroma Life 100 required 25 hours of exposure to fade by the
same amount. Please tell me which brand of ink has the same fade
resistance as the CanonCL100 so that I might try it?
Click to expand...

There is none
I use
aftermarket ink for my less critical needs, but when you consider the
cost of the paper involved in doing periodic reprints the Canon ink is
the most economic for photos.
Click to expand...

That is what I am saying. Besides the results look better.
 
TJ said:
I was curious about Measekite's figures, if he has any. Of course he's
done extensive research on the subject, reading magazine reviews and
all.
Click to expand...

Huh?

"Measekite" and "extensive research" have never been successfully used
in the same sentence. So please consider your words carefully!
I've used aftermarket ink exclusively for the past two years. The
longest I've gone without printing at least the black is about 10 days.
I'm not sure about the colors, but I know it's much longer. The color
cart/heads have never clogged. The only time the black has clogged is
when I ran out of ink and didn't know it on the last print job and it
sat for a couple of days before I discovered it. Even then the clog was
easily cleared.

You know what this means, don't you? It means that by Measekite's
definition, you and I must be (somehow) associated with an aftermarket
ink supplier, and that we're both blind and liars. What are we gonna do
now?

TJ
Click to expand...

What are we gonna do now?... I usually grin because Measekite really
hates it when someone uses aftermarket inks as successfully as OEM inks.
It absolutely infuriates him that I see no reason to pay up to 20 times
more for OEM cartridges. Frankly, I would have thought he'd be proud of
me that I saved about $1,000 Canadian last year by refilling my own
cartridges.

-Taliesyn
 
art said:
A few of the nozzles on the 1pl jets on my IP5000 are clogged.
It is not obvious unless I closely examine a photo. Most people
would not see it. It does become obvious when I do an extended
nozzle print test from the printer's service menu.
Click to expand...

No, I have no nozzle problems with the nozzles. I examine the important
printouts and projects very carefully, occasionally with a magnifier
to make sure all is running as it should. This is specifically because I
DID have a problem with the printhead on an i860, minute streaks across
photos. It was barely a month old. I replaced the printhead and all
was well the rest of the year, with the same inks. No problems have
cropped up on the iP4000 and 5000.
I will agree that I do not like Canon Photo Paper Pro. I like Epson
Premium Glossy Photo Paper. Others are good also. I prefer to
display my projects rather than protecting them. After 6 months the 4
aftermarket branded inks that I tried have faded beyond being pleasant
to look at. I also did a UV fade test on the 4 inks. After 1 hour
they had lost between 1/4 and 1/2 of their original intensity. The
Canon Chroma Life 100 required 25 hours of exposure to fade by the
same amount. Please tell me which brand of ink has the same fade
resistance as the CanonCL100 so that I might try it?
Click to expand...

I couldn't tell you this since I have not searched for an exact match
to Canon. I'm of the belief that whatever ink I use, THAT becomes the
new color standard for me, and I'll work within its range until I tire
of it and decide on switching standards - a new ink - once again. It
works fine for me.

When I say "protecting your projects", that doesn't mean I don't show
them. It only means photos are behind glass or plastic, and not
displayed openly.

-Taliesyn
 
Well that is easy to understand. Use the relabeled ink. Get poor
results. Tell yourself that the poor results are your new standard.
Then when you get crap again you can tell yourself that you got standard
quality.

ha ha ha
 
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