Epson Photo R300 "Service required"

[Arthur Entlich]

I'm not sure I see how the cartridge chip would engage the printer to do
considerably more cleaning cycles. The cleaning cycles are determined
by two systems in the firmware. One is a timer that keeps track of the
previous cleaning cycle, and this information is held internally within
the printer in a EPPROM which is updated with each cleaning cycle done,
or time elapsed.

The second way a cleaning cycle is triggered is when the the printer
reads the cartridge as empty and requiring replacement. Once the
cartridge is replaced, a purge cycle is carried out. But if this were a
defect in the cartridge chip, it would mean the cartridge was indicating
replacement after each time it was turned on/shut down, and no one would
be willing to put up with that.

To the best of my knowledge there isn't another way to have the
cartridge trigger a cleaning cycle or a set of them.

Art

Nothing to do with the type of ink used. It's down to the number of cleans
and nozzle checks, You should know better. I use nothing else but third
party ink with no problems whatever. You have no idea what you are talking
about.

Bull.

It >DOES< have to do with the type of ink used, and more importantly, the bogus
chips in those carts which, more likely than not, forced many more cleanings
than the oem carts [some are known to do a cleaning prior to each printout!]

 

[SamSez]

Sorry shooter, but that's how it works. Cleanings count against the 'pad full'
tally. And if you don't know that, you have zero understanding of most
printers. Idiot.

Absolute rubbish. You are talking about an Epson R300, if so you have little
understanding of that machine.

Nothing to do with the type of ink used. It's down to the number of cleans
and nozzle checks, You should know better. I use nothing else but third
party ink with no problems whatever. You have no idea what you are talking
about.

Bull.

It >DOES< have to do with the type of ink used, and more importantly, the bogus
chips in those carts which, more likely than not, forced many more cleanings
than the oem carts [some are known to do a cleaning prior to each printout!]

 

[zakezuke]

and more importantly, the bogus

Sorry shooter, but that's how it works. Cleanings count against the 'pad full'
tally. And if you don't know that, you have zero understanding of most
printers. Idiot.

I think the question is how do bogus chips cause more cleanings in
refilled carts. Yes the waste ink count is the sole factor the epson
r200 and r300 use to determine when a pad needs replacing, but the
chips that are onboard serve really serve two fuctions...
1. Identify what type of ink they are and what color
2. Keep track of ink used.

So called "bogus chips" could be ones which auto-reset after they reach
a certain number, which doesn't really apply here as these are refills,
which wouldn't be an issue with refilled carts. Even if true, near as
I'm aware the epson 200 and r300 don't trigger a cleaning cycle if the
value goes from a low value to a high value, if this were so than those
who choose to replace one cart without hitting the cart replace button
wouldn't observe an effect.

There are many chips on 3rd party carts that get seen as not being
epson oem.... which if you are trying to say the printer forces more
cleanings from those than OEM could be an insightful statement but this
would be the first time "I" heard about it. If this is what you are
saying please say it more clearly, i'd greatly appricate valid
information on the subject.

But near as i'm aware bogus chips don't affect the value of the waste
counter as the waste count is based on how many drops are ejected which
gets stored on the printer and subtracted from the chips drop count,
neither of which are directly connected to each other.

 

[Shooter]

I agree with what you say Art, the message the writer is getting is mainly
to inform the user all the points stored within the EPPROM are used, in my
experience this is caused through cleans, nozzle print off's and purging
when a cart is replaced or removed. With this printer as with so many Epsons
you are only allowed three or four nozzle tests then the printer carries out
a purge. If you do a clean and then a nozzle test the printer will purge
twice. As another writer has written, it is because he uses non OEM ink,
this incorrect and should not influence Nigel in using third party ink. No
matter what ink he uses cleans, purges, and nozzle tests use a lot of ink
and will quickly fill the pads, as I have written the way round this is to
fit a waste bottle you can then reset the printer as many times as required,
but the real answer is a CIS.

Others have written and given web addresses for a program that will reset
the counter, well that may be fine for some but they should consider that
the program will not give the user info stored on the EPPROM only the Epson
program will do that.

I'm not sure I see how the cartridge chip would engage the printer to do
considerably more cleaning cycles. The cleaning cycles are determined
by two systems in the firmware. One is a timer that keeps track of the
previous cleaning cycle, and this information is held internally within
the printer in a EPPROM which is updated with each cleaning cycle done,
or time elapsed.

The second way a cleaning cycle is triggered is when the the printer
reads the cartridge as empty and requiring replacement. Once the
cartridge is replaced, a purge cycle is carried out. But if this were a
defect in the cartridge chip, it would mean the cartridge was indicating
replacement after each time it was turned on/shut down, and no one would
be willing to put up with that.

To the best of my knowledge there isn't another way to have the
cartridge trigger a cleaning cycle or a set of them.

Art

Nothing to do with the type of ink used. It's down to the number of cleans
and nozzle checks, You should know better. I use nothing else but third
party ink with no problems whatever. You have no idea what you are talking
about.

Bull.

It >DOES< have to do with the type of ink used, and more importantly, the bogus
chips in those carts which, more likely than not, forced many more cleanings
than the oem carts [some are known to do a cleaning prior to each printout!]

 

[measekite]

Chances are you have hit the waste ink pad protection numbers.

The reset requires proprietary software from Epson, and the cost of
repair is likely nearly that of the printer.

You can try to hunt down a printer utility, provided out of Russia
which may allow you to reset the EPPROM or the waste ink pads, but I
believe once you have reached that point the software will not turn
the clock back.

Art

INKY STINKY INK ALL OVER THE PLACE.

 

[SamSez]

Art -

There were reports of 3rd party chips that triggered a charge cycle with every
powerup.

I'm not sure I see how the cartridge chip would engage the printer to do
considerably more cleaning cycles. The cleaning cycles are determined
by two systems in the firmware. One is a timer that keeps track of the
previous cleaning cycle, and this information is held internally within
the printer in a EPPROM which is updated with each cleaning cycle done,
or time elapsed.

The second way a cleaning cycle is triggered is when the the printer
reads the cartridge as empty and requiring replacement. Once the
cartridge is replaced, a purge cycle is carried out. But if this were a
defect in the cartridge chip, it would mean the cartridge was indicating
replacement after each time it was turned on/shut down, and no one would
be willing to put up with that.

To the best of my knowledge there isn't another way to have the
cartridge trigger a cleaning cycle or a set of them.

Art

Nothing to do with the type of ink used. It's down to the number of cleans
and nozzle checks, You should know better. I use nothing else but third
party ink with no problems whatever. You have no idea what you are talking
about.

Bull.

It >DOES< have to do with the type of ink used, and more importantly, the bogus
chips in those carts which, more likely than not, forced many more cleanings
than the oem carts [some are known to do a cleaning prior to each printout!]

 

[Shooter]

Absolute Bollocks, I would suggest you study in depth how Epson printers
work before you just repeat what you have read. I find it's people like you
that cause panic with printer owners who have a limited knowledge. May I
suggest you team up with that other writer Measekite who has about the same
knowledge as your self.

Art -

There were reports of 3rd party chips that triggered a charge cycle with every
powerup.

I'm not sure I see how the cartridge chip would engage the printer to do
considerably more cleaning cycles. The cleaning cycles are determined
by two systems in the firmware. One is a timer that keeps track of the
previous cleaning cycle, and this information is held internally within
the printer in a EPPROM which is updated with each cleaning cycle done,
or time elapsed.

The second way a cleaning cycle is triggered is when the the printer
reads the cartridge as empty and requiring replacement. Once the
cartridge is replaced, a purge cycle is carried out. But if this were a
defect in the cartridge chip, it would mean the cartridge was indicating
replacement after each time it was turned on/shut down, and no one would
be willing to put up with that.

To the best of my knowledge there isn't another way to have the
cartridge trigger a cleaning cycle or a set of them.

Art

the

bogus

chips in those carts which, more likely than not, forced many more cleanings
than the oem carts [some are known to do a cleaning prior to each printout!]

 

[zakezuke]

There were reports of 3rd party chips that triggered a charge cycle with every

powerup.

Perhaps you can share these reports and which of these chips triggered
a charge cycle with every powerup.

 

[Rob]

Art -

There were reports of 3rd party chips that triggered a charge cycle with every
powerup.

From here mentions that problem.

http://www.tectintas.com/epson/

"Of course, for that you need to let your printer ON in 24/7/365 base,
otherwise the chips will reset everytime when you turn OFF/ON your printer.
By reseting, Epson will perform hard head cleaning "thinking" the
cartridges were exchange with new ones. You cannot stop this process
since is all inside on eeprom (firmware) printer.
When you need to reset the chips by turning the printer OFF, and then
ON, to get 100% on inks again, on the first printing job, Epson will
complain about "these cartridges (chips) aren't originals from Epson" or
something message, if you let your printer ON all the time, you will
need to answer YES only here, until resetting the chips again (returning
to 100%). After that, ALL the other printing jobs will be performed as
using originals (Epson) cartridges (chips)."

I'm not sure I see how the cartridge chip would engage the printer to do
considerably more cleaning cycles. The cleaning cycles are determined
by two systems in the firmware. One is a timer that keeps track of the
previous cleaning cycle, and this information is held internally within
the printer in a EPPROM which is updated with each cleaning cycle done,
or time elapsed.

The second way a cleaning cycle is triggered is when the the printer
reads the cartridge as empty and requiring replacement. Once the
cartridge is replaced, a purge cycle is carried out. But if this were a
defect in the cartridge chip, it would mean the cartridge was indicating
replacement after each time it was turned on/shut down, and no one would
be willing to put up with that.

To the best of my knowledge there isn't another way to have the
cartridge trigger a cleaning cycle or a set of them.

Art


SamSez wrote:

Nothing to do with the type of ink used. It's down to the number of cleans
and nozzle checks, You should know better. I use nothing else but third
party ink with no problems whatever. You have no idea what you are talking
about.


Bull.

It >DOES< have to do with the type of ink used, and more importantly, the

bogus

chips in those carts which, more likely than not, forced many more cleanings
than the oem carts [some are known to do a cleaning prior to each printout!]

 

[SamSez]

Perhaps you can share these reports and which of these chips triggered
a charge cycle with every powerup.

This vendor makes the 'new' version of the chip that does NOT do a charge cycle
on power up:

http://szmicrotec.en.ec21.com/GC00836617/CA00845938/Auto_Reset_Chip_(Ink_Cartridges).html

It is intended for refillable and CIS systems, but as noted by the seller, it is
ALSO used in remanufactured carts and has wound up in the 'white box' trade.

It is the PREVIOUS version of this 'now improved' chip [which also wound up in
the white box trade] that triggered unwanted charge cycles on power up [and
could fill up your waste pad before it would have been filled up by OEM carts].

And 'shooter' -- plonk to you [Absolute Bollocks, I won't even see your
apology].

 

[zakezuke]

This vendor makes the 'new' version of the chip that does NOT do a charge cycle

on power up:

I read your link and... while I did look... do not understand where you
are getting anything regarding 3rd party chips triggering extra
cleanings or purges. I do see chips that are designed to be auto
resetting... as in they pop up to 100% after they reach 10%, as opposed
to a type that need to be manualy reset like epson oem chips, or of a
type that are desgined to reset when you turn off the power. Franky I
have never heard of this type, but sounds like some form of volatile
memory rather than some form of flash memory. I don't know.... never
heard of that type at all.

What i'm not understanding is the OP is talking about 3rd party carts..
which I can only assume are of a type that are filled by some 3rd
party, which in turn are used by the end user and thrown away or
returned when empty. Unless they are clear there is no way for the end
user to know how much ink is in them so they are totally dependent on
the chips that keep track of fullness. I can not understand anyone in
their right mind using volatile memory in such a product for a single
use product when there is a huge surplus of OEM epson chips that are
painfuly easy to reset, just not so easy while they are in the printer.

 

[SamSez]

I read your link and... while I did look... do not understand where you
are getting anything regarding 3rd party chips triggering extra
cleanings or purges. I do see chips that are designed to be auto
resetting... as in they pop up to 100% after they reach 10%, as opposed
to a type that need to be manualy reset like epson oem chips, or of a
type that are desgined to reset when you turn off the power. Franky I
have never heard of this type, but sounds like some form of volatile
memory rather than some form of flash memory. I don't know.... never
heard of that type at all.

What i'm not understanding is the OP is talking about 3rd party carts..
which I can only assume are of a type that are filled by some 3rd
party, which in turn are used by the end user and thrown away or
returned when empty. Unless they are clear there is no way for the end
user to know how much ink is in them so they are totally dependent on
the chips that keep track of fullness. I can not understand anyone in
their right mind using volatile memory in such a product for a single
use product when there is a huge surplus of OEM epson chips that are
painfuly easy to reset, just not so easy while they are in the printer.

a) these people DO make these chips [I guess some people just like new chips and
not prying old ones out of old carts. Nor am I sure where your 'huge surplus'
of chips is. I doubt it's in China where these chips are being made by the
fist-full to supply the China cart makers.]

b) these chips are intended for 3rd party carts [not sure about your confusion
with the phrase "3rd party" -- these are 3rd party chips intended for 3rd party
carts].

c) their previous version would force a cleaning [in their words, maybe not the
best English, "clear printer head"] when they were reset. Only their NEWER
version are the [smarter] "non-clear printer head" type.

d) those older chips would auto-reset when the power was cycled [by design], and
when they did, they would "clear printer head". [And there is no reason to
believe that this is done with volatile memory. Sounds to me like a just a
design that self resets the flash without needing an external device. But
that's beside the point.]

e) some of those older chips wound up in third party carts [which is what the
comment in my earliest post was all about -- namely, that SOME third party carts
were said to trigger unnecessary cleaning cycles]. Think the little job shops
pumping out unbranded carts by the basket load fully test the end combination of
parts to guarantee that they work 'nice' in your printer?

Bottom line, I am not justifying the way they worked, and to you and me, perhaps
it doesn't make sense that that's the way they worked, but that doesn't change
the fact that they did work that way. And when they did, your waste pad
[remember, 'service required' -- the name of the thread] would fill up sooner
than it would otherwise.

 

[zakezuke]

a) these people DO make these chips [I guess some people just like new chips and

not prying old ones out of old carts. Nor am I sure where your 'huge surplus'
of chips is. I doubt it's in China where these chips are being made by the
fist-full to supply the China cart makers.]

The surplus comes from old OEM Epson carts. Look around for those who
advertise "will pay money for used epson carts". This is where the
surplus is comming from. Now if you're talking a bulk feed system
these are impractical for that but if you're talking pre-filled 3rd
party carts... just offer end users pennies on the dollar for their
empty OEM carts, pull them (attached by two pieces of plastic
mushroomed at the ends by heat), reset them, and put them on refilled
carts. Easy peasy esp if you re-use the cart and just fill it with ink
and reset it, which is the prefered method even if you have to bottom
fill... there are machines that do this for you.

Bottom line, I am not justifying the way they worked, and to you and me, perhaps
it doesn't make sense that that's the way they worked, but that doesn't change
the fact that they did work that way. And when they did, your waste pad
[remember, 'service required' -- the name of the thread] would fill up sooner
than it would otherwise.

Yes, I remember the name of the thread... there is no evidence to
sugest the fact that the OP was using a cart of this type. I have
never *ever* heard of the chips you are talking about that were
volitile on pre-filled carts.

It >DOES< have to do with the type of ink used, and more importantly, the bogus
chips in those carts which, more likely than not, forced many more cleanings
than the oem carts [some are known to do a cleaning prior to each printout!]

This is the point in dispute. While I'm willing to believe if a
volitile form of memory is used where they ink count would reset to
zero may cause the printer to do a cleaning cycle when you turn it on
though i've not observed this behavier, I find it hard to believe that
even a cart with a volitile chip would peform this behavier before
every print. If true it has absolutely nothing to do with the ink
inside but the chip resetting to zero when power is removed. Further,
we are not talking refillables or even bulk feed systems but rather
"using these cheaper carts" which are not likely to be of the auto
resetting type anyway. There is no point to using the auto resetting
type for pre-filled carts. They cost more than non-resetting, and much
much more than used OEM chips which do the job perfectly well.

You raise an interesting idea, one worth exploring. But keep in mind
we are talking the epson r300 here, which gets a full diaper after
there and abouts of the 10th cartrage using OEM ink based on my
estimates.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Haven't heard about this, and not sure what would be required in terms
of the chip design to do this, but I suppose it might be possible.

Also, seems it would empty the cartridges in short order.

Normally, the printer reads the chip status on startup (power-up) as a
starting point to count down the ink contents status. The chip is then
rewritten to at power-down to reflect the amount of ink used during the
session. The levels are based upon a simple binary (on/off) code the
several contact pads the chip provides creates which resolve in
differing ink levels.

I suppose some rather odd chip design might cause a purging session, but
it would certainly be a most unusual programming. It would seems to me
anyone using such cartridges would be well aware of them, since they
would run out of ink by 10-12 on-off cycles (or less).


Art

Art -

There were reports of 3rd party chips that triggered a charge cycle with every
powerup.

I'm not sure I see how the cartridge chip would engage the printer to do
considerably more cleaning cycles. The cleaning cycles are determined
by two systems in the firmware. One is a timer that keeps track of the
previous cleaning cycle, and this information is held internally within
the printer in a EPPROM which is updated with each cleaning cycle done,
or time elapsed.

The second way a cleaning cycle is triggered is when the the printer
reads the cartridge as empty and requiring replacement. Once the
cartridge is replaced, a purge cycle is carried out. But if this were a
defect in the cartridge chip, it would mean the cartridge was indicating
replacement after each time it was turned on/shut down, and no one would
be willing to put up with that.

To the best of my knowledge there isn't another way to have the
cartridge trigger a cleaning cycle or a set of them.

Art


SamSez wrote:

Nothing to do with the type of ink used. It's down to the number of cleans
and nozzle checks, You should know better. I use nothing else but third
party ink with no problems whatever. You have no idea what you are talking
about.


Bull.

It >DOES< have to do with the type of ink used, and more importantly, the

bogus

chips in those carts which, more likely than not, forced many more cleanings
than the oem carts [some are known to do a cleaning prior to each printout!]

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Sam, it seems to me you took a very unlikely scenario and tried to make
it sound like a normal situation that was likely to occur with a 3rd
party cartridge.

To quote your original posting:
"Bull.

It >DOES< have to do with the type of ink used, and more importantly,
the bogus
chips in those carts which, more likely than not, forced many more cleanings
than the oem carts [some are known to do a cleaning prior to each
printout!]"

However, further examination finds that in very rare cases a chip
designed for a CIS might have somehow ended up on some 3rd party
cartridges, and you assumed that the reason a person's waste ink pads
were full was due to his encountering these very unusual chips on 3rd
party ink cartridges.

The odds of someone getting even one of these cartridges is rather
minute, and more than one, nearly zero, it would seem to me. Also, if
these cartridges reset at 10%, that could only happen once per cartridge
fill, since it would run out of ink during or after that second purge.
If, as was implied, the full purge started on each startup, the
cartridge would have emptied in, as mentioned before, about 10 -15 resets.

Art

cycle


I read your link and... while I did look... do not understand where you
are getting anything regarding 3rd party chips triggering extra
cleanings or purges. I do see chips that are designed to be auto
resetting... as in they pop up to 100% after they reach 10%, as opposed
to a type that need to be manualy reset like epson oem chips, or of a
type that are desgined to reset when you turn off the power. Franky I
have never heard of this type, but sounds like some form of volatile
memory rather than some form of flash memory. I don't know.... never
heard of that type at all.

What i'm not understanding is the OP is talking about 3rd party carts..
which I can only assume are of a type that are filled by some 3rd
party, which in turn are used by the end user and thrown away or
returned when empty. Unless they are clear there is no way for the end
user to know how much ink is in them so they are totally dependent on
the chips that keep track of fullness. I can not understand anyone in
their right mind using volatile memory in such a product for a single
use product when there is a huge surplus of OEM epson chips that are
painfuly easy to reset, just not so easy while they are in the printer.

a) these people DO make these chips [I guess some people just like new chips and
not prying old ones out of old carts. Nor am I sure where your 'huge surplus'
of chips is. I doubt it's in China where these chips are being made by the
fist-full to supply the China cart makers.]

b) these chips are intended for 3rd party carts [not sure about your confusion
with the phrase "3rd party" -- these are 3rd party chips intended for 3rd party
carts].

c) their previous version would force a cleaning [in their words, maybe not the
best English, "clear printer head"] when they were reset. Only their NEWER
version are the [smarter] "non-clear printer head" type.

d) those older chips would auto-reset when the power was cycled [by design], and
when they did, they would "clear printer head". [And there is no reason to
believe that this is done with volatile memory. Sounds to me like a just a
design that self resets the flash without needing an external device. But
that's beside the point.]

e) some of those older chips wound up in third party carts [which is what the
comment in my earliest post was all about -- namely, that SOME third party carts
were said to trigger unnecessary cleaning cycles]. Think the little job shops
pumping out unbranded carts by the basket load fully test the end combination of
parts to guarantee that they work 'nice' in your printer?

Bottom line, I am not justifying the way they worked, and to you and me, perhaps
it doesn't make sense that that's the way they worked, but that doesn't change
the fact that they did work that way. And when they did, your waste pad
[remember, 'service required' -- the name of the thread] would fill up sooner
than it would otherwise.

 

[Shooter]

That's because there is nothing to apologise about. All you are able to do
is repeat what you have read without testing of your own, the name Parrot
comes to mind. However if you go to ****wit.com you will see you are listed
as FW of the month and in for Golden prick of the year along with Measekite.

with

every

Perhaps you can share these reports and which of these chips triggered
a charge cycle with every powerup.

This vendor makes the 'new' version of the chip that does NOT do a charge cycle
on power up:

http://szmicrotec.en.ec21.com/GC00836617/CA00845938/Auto_Reset_Chip_(Ink_Cartridges).html

It is intended for refillable and CIS systems, but as noted by the seller, it is
ALSO used in remanufactured carts and has wound up in the 'white box' trade.

It is the PREVIOUS version of this 'now improved' chip [which also wound up in
the white box trade] that triggered unwanted charge cycles on power up [and
could fill up your waste pad before it would have been filled up by OEM carts].

And 'shooter' -- plonk to you [Absolute Bollocks, I won't even see your
apology].

 

[SamSez]

Art -

Only when they power cycled the printer, and, if the logic was working
correctly, only when it thought it was down to 10%.

[Do you power down your printers or just leave them on?]

Yes, it was a stupid chip design, but it was the first attempt, and intended
really for CIS and refilling without a chip reset box.

Haven't heard about this, and not sure what would be required in terms
of the chip design to do this, but I suppose it might be possible.

Also, seems it would empty the cartridges in short order.

Normally, the printer reads the chip status on startup (power-up) as a
starting point to count down the ink contents status. The chip is then
rewritten to at power-down to reflect the amount of ink used during the
session. The levels are based upon a simple binary (on/off) code the
several contact pads the chip provides creates which resolve in
differing ink levels.

I suppose some rather odd chip design might cause a purging session, but
it would certainly be a most unusual programming. It would seems to me
anyone using such cartridges would be well aware of them, since they
would run out of ink by 10-12 on-off cycles (or less).


Art

Art -

There were reports of 3rd party chips that triggered a charge cycle with every
powerup.

I'm not sure I see how the cartridge chip would engage the printer to do
considerably more cleaning cycles. The cleaning cycles are determined
by two systems in the firmware. One is a timer that keeps track of the
previous cleaning cycle, and this information is held internally within
the printer in a EPPROM which is updated with each cleaning cycle done,
or time elapsed.

The second way a cleaning cycle is triggered is when the the printer
reads the cartridge as empty and requiring replacement. Once the
cartridge is replaced, a purge cycle is carried out. But if this were a
defect in the cartridge chip, it would mean the cartridge was indicating
replacement after each time it was turned on/shut down, and no one would
be willing to put up with that.

To the best of my knowledge there isn't another way to have the
cartridge trigger a cleaning cycle or a set of them.

Art


SamSez wrote:




Nothing to do with the type of ink used. It's down to the number of cleans
and nozzle checks, You should know better. I use nothing else but third
party ink with no problems whatever. You have no idea what you are talking
about.


Bull.

It >DOES< have to do with the type of ink used, and more importantly, the
bogus

chips in those carts which, more likely than not, forced many more cleanings
than the oem carts [some are known to do a cleaning prior to each printout!]

 

[SamSez]

Art -

Don't know what the odds were, but I do know that an associate of mine at work
must have had a set of these [or clone] chips in a set of carts he bought for
his r200 at a 'week-end computer show'. They were even advertised as 'easy
refill', and sold with spare ink. He killed the printer within 90 days [so he
just took it back to Sams]. After observing it, we saw that it was OK if you
powered it down with the top button, but if you removed and re-applied line
power [even with the lights off and the printer apparently powered down], it
would do a clean cycle. I suppose a bug in the way they implemented the
auto-reset [and perhaps the reason for the reference to 'less head damage' with
the new design].

As to 'ending up' in single use carts -- the chip seller [according to his own
web page] even sells them for that purpose [why, I don't know].

Remember my original 'bull' reply was in response to the flat out statement that
3rd party carts could not possibly have anything to do with the problem -- which
is simply not true. Sure, if you buy on trusted recommendation, or buy from a
source that you know for a fact hasn't just changed supplier, you will probably
be ok -- but regardless, you are the one doing the QA with little recourse
[depending on the vendor] if you have problems.

[And yes, my r300, chugging away on overpriced oem ink, is still going. To me,
it's worth the price to not have do someone else's QA on my hardware with every
new cart I buy.]

Sam, it seems to me you took a very unlikely scenario and tried to make
it sound like a normal situation that was likely to occur with a 3rd
party cartridge.

To quote your original posting:
"Bull.

It >DOES< have to do with the type of ink used, and more importantly,
the bogus
chips in those carts which, more likely than not, forced many more cleanings
than the oem carts [some are known to do a cleaning prior to each
printout!]"

However, further examination finds that in very rare cases a chip
designed for a CIS might have somehow ended up on some 3rd party
cartridges, and you assumed that the reason a person's waste ink pads
were full was due to his encountering these very unusual chips on 3rd
party ink cartridges.

The odds of someone getting even one of these cartridges is rather
minute, and more than one, nearly zero, it would seem to me. Also, if
these cartridges reset at 10%, that could only happen once per cartridge
fill, since it would run out of ink during or after that second purge.
If, as was implied, the full purge started on each startup, the
cartridge would have emptied in, as mentioned before, about 10 -15 resets.

Art

This vendor makes the 'new' version of the chip that does NOT do a charge
cycle

on power up:

I read your link and... while I did look... do not understand where you
are getting anything regarding 3rd party chips triggering extra
cleanings or purges. I do see chips that are designed to be auto
resetting... as in they pop up to 100% after they reach 10%, as opposed
to a type that need to be manualy reset like epson oem chips, or of a
type that are desgined to reset when you turn off the power. Franky I
have never heard of this type, but sounds like some form of volatile
memory rather than some form of flash memory. I don't know.... never
heard of that type at all.

What i'm not understanding is the OP is talking about 3rd party carts..
which I can only assume are of a type that are filled by some 3rd
party, which in turn are used by the end user and thrown away or
returned when empty. Unless they are clear there is no way for the end
user to know how much ink is in them so they are totally dependent on
the chips that keep track of fullness. I can not understand anyone in
their right mind using volatile memory in such a product for a single
use product when there is a huge surplus of OEM epson chips that are
painfuly easy to reset, just not so easy while they are in the printer.

a) these people DO make these chips [I guess some people just like new chips and
not prying old ones out of old carts. Nor am I sure where your 'huge surplus'
of chips is. I doubt it's in China where these chips are being made by the
fist-full to supply the China cart makers.]

b) these chips are intended for 3rd party carts [not sure about your confusion
with the phrase "3rd party" -- these are 3rd party chips intended for 3rd party
carts].

c) their previous version would force a cleaning [in their words, maybe not the
best English, "clear printer head"] when they were reset. Only their NEWER
version are the [smarter] "non-clear printer head" type.

d) those older chips would auto-reset when the power was cycled [by design], and
when they did, they would "clear printer head". [And there is no reason to
believe that this is done with volatile memory. Sounds to me like a just a
design that self resets the flash without needing an external device. But
that's beside the point.]

e) some of those older chips wound up in third party carts [which is what the
comment in my earliest post was all about -- namely, that SOME third party carts
were said to trigger unnecessary cleaning cycles]. Think the little job shops
pumping out unbranded carts by the basket load fully test the end combination of
parts to guarantee that they work 'nice' in your printer?

Bottom line, I am not justifying the way they worked, and to you and me, perhaps
it doesn't make sense that that's the way they worked, but that doesn't change
the fact that they did work that way. And when they did, your waste pad
[remember, 'service required' -- the name of the thread] would fill up sooner
than it would otherwise.

 

[measekite]

PLONG UR MAGIC TWANGER

That's because there is nothing to apologise about. All you are able to do
is repeat what you have read without testing of your own, the name Parrot
comes to mind. However if you go to ****wit.com you will see you are listed
as FW of the month and in for Golden prick of the year along with Measekite.

with


This vendor makes the 'new' version of the chip that does NOT do a charge

cycle


on power up:



http://szmicrotec.en.ec21.com/GC00836617/CA00845938/Auto_Reset_Chip_(Ink_Cartridges).html


It is intended for refillable and CIS systems, but as noted by the seller,

it is

ALSO used in remanufactured carts and has wound up in the 'white box'

trade.


It is the PREVIOUS version of this 'now improved' chip [which also wound

up in

the white box trade] that triggered unwanted charge cycles on power up

[and


could fill up your waste pad before it would have been filled up by OEM

carts].


And 'shooter' -- plonk to you [Absolute Bollocks, I won't even see your
apology].

 

[Frank]

PLONG UR MAGIC TWANGER

That's because there is nothing to apologise about. All you are able to do
is repeat what you have read without testing of your own, the name Parrot
comes to mind. However if you go to ****wit.com you will see you are listed
as FW of the month and in for Golden prick of the year along with Measekite.

There were reports of 3rd party chips that triggered a charge cycle

with


every


powerup.


Perhaps you can share these reports and which of these chips triggered
a charge cycle with every powerup.



This vendor makes the 'new' version of the chip that does NOT do a charge

cycle


on power up:



http://szmicrotec.en.ec21.com/GC00836617/CA00845938/Auto_Reset_Chip_(Ink_Cartridges).html


It is intended for refillable and CIS systems, but as noted by the seller,

it is

ALSO used in remanufactured carts and has wound up in the 'white box'

trade.


It is the PREVIOUS version of this 'now improved' chip [which also wound

up in

the white box trade] that triggered unwanted charge cycles on power up

[and


could fill up your waste pad before it would have been filled up by OEM

carts].


And 'shooter' -- plonk to you [Absolute Bollocks, I won't even see your
apology].

u r insane!
Frank