Cheap fire suppression system for a PC?

[ShadowTek]

That can certainly be the case, but we have no way of knowing
how much performance you are demanding from your system.
More to the point for this thread, we don't know if you have a
paranoia with regard to sound, that in anyway matches the OP.

I think most of us are quite satisfied with the sound level of our
systems, without the efforts the OP seems compelled toward.
I have a couple of very quite Antec "Three Hundred" cases,
for instance.

It isn't "paranoia" that's motivating me, it's an actual hearing
sensitivity that I have which allow me to hear things that some people
can't.

It's more than just distracting, it physically hurts.

Just to illustrate my point, how many other people do you know carry around
earplugs *everywhere* they go?

 

[ShadowTek]

If you just truely turn off all power, the chance of fire while the PC
is un-attended is slow. DO NOT trust soft standby!

Oh, I don't. Actually, I have everything strategically plugged into an
array of surge protector strips that allows me to conveniently switch
off the power to everything that I don't use when I'm not home, with
only an absolute minimum of equipment left energized.

Regardless, I need my *computer* running 24/7.

 

[ShadowTek]

["Followup-To:" header set to alt.comp.hardware.]

All kidding aside, it is not reasonable to even think about
fire detection and suppression for a PC so long as you have
a reasonable quality PSU inside, most of your other AC
powered electrical products are more likely to catch fire
than a PC.

As I just posted, I have removed any other equipment from the equation.

Anyway, the day I post back about my house burning down, your response
of "Well, I guess Gigabyte took a dump on that one." isn't going to make
me feel any better.

I intend to make an effort.

 

[Guest]

I would like to install a small fire detection/suppression system for my
computer. I've seen a lot of rediculously expensive stuff online, but
I'd like to spend as little as possible.

Use a case made of steel, not aluminum, with no window on the side.
Keep all cooling fans and vents at least a foot from anything
flammable, such as curtains. Computer fires aren't likely to spread,
except their odor, since the materials are fairly fire resistant, even
the plastics (except those for windows). The cheapest automatic fire
supression system I know of is a large bag of baking soda. The fire
melts the bag, and the baking soda extinguishes the flames.

 

[Guest]

That's my main concern. I need to have a lot of sound absorbant material
around my computer, and I'm thinking about creating a 4 sided cabnet
composed of 5/8" sheet-rock covered with carpet. That may be all I need
on the sides, but I need something more as the bottom layer that will
absorb the vibrations from the case.

Last night, I inserted a layer of 3/8" foam carpet-paddeing with an
additional layer of carpet on top of that, which helped to reduce the
vibrations quite a bit, but it isn't good enough yet. I think 2 more
layers of carpet-padding with competely solve the vibration problem, but
adding all that foam makes me a little paranoid.

If you really want to prevent fire, you wouldn't use carpeting or
carpet padding for soundproofing but only fiberglass or rock wool or
melamine foam (not the usual urethane foam). Boric acid will reduce
the flammability of fabric (it's used for cellulose insulation, which
is fire safe for attics), but I don't know how long the effect lasts.
A treatment used for clothing that may work: 12 oz. sodium stannate
in 1 gal. water. Soak fabric for 15 minutes, then wring. Next, soak
in a solution of 4 oz. ammonium sulfate in 1 gal water for 15 minutes,
then wring and let dry.

Currently, the bottom layer that my computer is standing on looks like
this:
______
| |
| PC |
| |
---carpet---
---foam padding---
---carpet---
---5/8" sheet-rock---
---carpet---
-----------------------

I would set the PC direclty on either sheet rock or ceramic tile.

Be skeptical of fire resistance ratings because unless you're told the
exact safety standard that applies, like UL 94 for plastics (V0 is its
best rating), the information may be useless. For example, styrofoam,
which is highly flammable, has been rated as "self extinguishing," but
must be covered with highly fire resistant material when used in
building, and fire wood has been rated as "fire resistant."

In most situations, the best way to prevent fire with a computer
system is by not blocking any vent openings in the computer cabinet,
monitor, printer, and battery backup power supply (if set on
carpeting, place ceramic tiles under it to keep its bottom vents
clear). Don't use any electrical cords bought from a 99-cent store.

 

[Guest]

You can also use watercooling to remove all the
noise producing elements to another room. That
leaves just the hard drive "noise" to manage.

I thought the purpose was to improve safety, not worsen it by creating
a potential electric shock hazard with a cooling system that hasn't
been UL, VDE, or CSA certified. The cooling systems I've seen use
vinyl hoses that can melt if the processor's heatsink gets hot enough,
and I haven't seen any leak detection devices, like those made for
preventing washroom flooding. A better solution may be a heatpipe
cooling system

 

[Paul]

I have sensitive hearing, and typical PC noises aflict me with an
occasional case of tinnitus.



I did.

This is an example of the kind of case to get. It uses heatpipes
extensively. I think this may have gone out of production.
When it was available, it was around $1000.00 .

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coolers/display/zalman-tnn500af.html

One of the issues with some of these kinds of solutions, is
the vibration isolating grommets used for fans or hard drives.
They have to be made from the right materials, to prevent
noises from devices like the hard drive, from getting
coupled into the case walls.

Paul

 

[ShadowTek]

No it's not, it's a compulsive fixation on noise which most
other people ignore. Being able to hear a little better,
even if it were true, does not result in what you hear being
excessively loud, all other sounds are still relatively
louder.

You're telling *me* what *my* hearing condition is? lol

I *can* hear sounds that many other people can't.

Doubt me if you like.

I *do* experience physical pain and *actual* lingering tinnitus after lengthy
exposure to certian sounds that don't bother most other people.

Doubt me if you like.

 

[ShadowTek]

Swap the PSU fan for a quieter one. Done.

Send me the money to do it, and it'll get done.

I'm not going to spend $70 of *my* money on another PS when I can simple isolate the
sound that my current one is making.

 

[ShadowTek]

I also have a need for a computer running 24/7 for a proxy server and
the occasional torrent download, etc. I got a cheap, 5 watt,
no-moving-parts repurposed linux computer for the task. It's dead
silent but best for me doesn't run at 50-100 watts like my desktop
computer does. If your need doesn't involve windows-only programs
post here and I'll describe more details.

The biggest thing holding me back from setting up a different computer
was a lack of a multi-port router, which I just recently acquired. I've
been thinking about setting up a different computer in another room for
just that purpose, but I've got to make space to set one up, as my house
is *very* tight on space.

Anyway, I have enough know-how to set up the software for it (and I
don't use Windows anymore).
Thanks.

 

[ShadowTek]

BS, quit trolling or if you're serious see a shrink.

Your repeated, indiscriminate, hateful responses have proven your worth.

It is obvious that there is no benefit from conversation with
the likes of you.

*plonk*

 

[Guest]

And the insulation value of the "large bag of baking soda" is
likely to up the odds of the computer overheating, in the first
place.

Probably, unless it's made thin and lines the ceiling of the case (OP
said power supply was on bottom).

 

[Guest]

I thought the purpose was to improve safety, not worsen it by creating
a potential electric shock hazard with a cooling system that hasn't
been UL, VDE, or CSA certified.

... then use a ground fault breaker circuit and remember,
the water cooling was probably proposed for the low voltage
areas, it's not particularly unsafe to short the highest
voltage (12V) line directly to ground with coolant, it just
doesn't conduct that well.[/QUOTE]

I've had 2 GFIs fail on me, one in the "on" position, and I tripped a
GFI while converging a TV with what turned out to be an unisolated
isolation transformer (was not a variac). Therefore I'd want better
backup than just a GFI.

"if". No matter what material you talk about, it would
melt "if" something gets hot enough. Now back to reality,
of all the cooling systems you've seen, how many of them
have melted their vinyl hoses from contact with anything in
the interior of a PC? If the CPU die itself, which is much
hotter than the outer fins of a heatsink, were to get
remotely close to hot enough to melt vinyl, the CPU has
already throttled down if the system didn't totally shut
off.

In other words, those tubes aren't going to melt as soon as
any of the electrical wiring in the system would.

Probably not with a modern processor with built-in thermal limiting,
but I'd much rather use almost anything but vinyl, like automotive
heater hose.

It's really rather trivial to do, just completely
unnecessary and indulging a wild mind that proposes
superhuman hearing of very low level noises is a physical
problem rather than a mental one.

Prozac for OCD?

Water cooling is simply an unnecessary expense and effort
given today's high quality air coolers, many of which can
run at average loads with their fans not spinning at all
because the rear case exhaust fan pulls sufficient air past
them. At full load it could be necessary to turn on a 120mm
fan at 1,000 RPM, but it is not a problem and in fact if
noise is such a terrible thing then the typing the OP is
doing to post to this group is far louder than a 1,000 RPM
fan.

I should have told OP to try www.silentpcreview.com for soundproofing
hints.

 

[Al Dykes]

Send me the money to do it, and it'll get done.

I'm not going to spend $70 of *my* money on another PS when I can simple isolate the
sound that my current one is making.

*You* are the one worried about fire.

 

[Guest]

You obviously have no understanding of how a watercooling
system works, or basic physics for that matter.
Obviously.

The processor
and any other component needing active cooling, would have a
"waterblock" not a heatsink.

And you're not splitting hairs.

The distilled water being pumped
through the waterblock(s) and the "hoses" is at most only a few
degrees above the ambient temp., of the room with the radiator.
The hoses are at the same temp. as the water.

Even under worst-case conditions?

Most any water pump you can buy will have all the required
certifications.

You're under the false impression that a device consisting exclusively
of UL approved components is itself UL approved. If that's wrong,
then explain how a 120VAC device with dozens of UL Y-certified 5nF
capacitors soldered in parallel between hot and ground could pass UL
standards for electrical leakage.

There is no more "shock hazard" with water cooling than with
air cooling.

But if I had to choose, I'd rather have a big air leak than almost any
water leak into a high voltage supply. What about you?

 

[ShadowTek]

Probably, unless it's made thin and lines the ceiling of the case (OP
said power supply was on bottom).

Actually, I have a 23cm fan that exhausts out the top of my case, and I
wouldn't want to do without it, as it's one of the most quiet fans in
the case.

 

[ShadowTek]

*You* are the one worried about fire.

Without the PS vibrations, the noise from everything else still needs to
be dealt with, which means I will still be using some kind of sound/vibration
insulation, which means I'm still concerned with fire.

Regardless, my original concern was a general one. Considering proper
sound insulation peaked my curiousity on the matter, but I'm still
concerned about a possible house-fire either way.

 

[Guest]

I've had 2 GFIs fail on me, one in the "on" position, and I tripped a
GFI while converging a TV with what turned out to be an unisolated
isolation transformer (was not a variac). Therefore I'd want better
backup than just a GFI.

Why not fix the problem instead? Granted, GFI circuits
don't last forever, they should be replaced every decade or
so.[/QUOTE]

They were plug-in Woods Wire brand GFIs. The first was 1-3 years old
when I pressed the test button and noticed it stayed off (power
transistor or triac had ruptured and sprayed copper inside the case).
The second GFI - the replacement for the first and a very different
design - failed in a few days and kept the power on. The
replacement for it has been fine.

That's why I don't trust GFIs.

, the second a few days old.

Why? Given the conditions, there is simply no need. It is
an engineering issue, while I too like to go overboard with
margins, there is no case here where it is of benefit unless
the system were exposed to excessive sunlight in which case
the vinyl would degrade.

There were some photos of a failed homemade water cooling system,
probably for a Pentium III or original Athlon, where the vinyl tubing
had melted, and the loss of water led to the soldered copper water
block falling apart and spilling molten solder over a large area of
the motherboard. I doubt any other tubing would have failed nearly
as easily.

 

[Guest]

Without the PS vibrations, the noise from everything else still needs to
be dealt with, which means I will still be using some kind of sound/vibration
insulation, which means I'm still concerned with fire.

Change fans or mount the fans on shock absorbers:

http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/std/sku=Fanisolators

Rubber grommets with thick-shaft screws can be used for isolating hard
drives. Special screws are needed to allow tightening (so they don't
eventually loosen from vibration) without crushing the grommets.

 

[ShadowTek]

Change fans or mount the fans on shock absorbers:

http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/std/sku=Fanisolators

Rubber grommets with thick-shaft screws can be used for isolating hard
drives. Special screws are needed to allow tightening (so they don't
eventually loosen from vibration) without crushing the grommets.

Actually, there don't seem to be any annoying vibrations that are noticible from anything other
than my power supply. My fans are pretty quiet, and the hard drive cages
that came with my case have vibration padding along each side.

Every other irriatation is pretty much high-frequency noise.