Boycott Vista in the UK!

[Gordon]

Actually, the OEM's were eligible for greater discounts based on the
various conditions contained in their agreements. "Penalties" is implying
that they had to pay additional sums.

Well I suppose you /could/ look at it as a withdrawing of discount - either
way it would have had a drastic impact on the bottom line - and that would
have happened if they had sold just ONE machine.....

 

[Eric]

So don't buy a German car. there's plenty of other choices. Microsoft's
actions over the last 15 years have ensured there IS no other choice for
the vast majority of people - it's called "monopoly".....

There are other choices.
You don't have to buy Vista.
You can buy a Mac, or a PC with an old OS or none at all.
You can still run Windows 95/98/ME/2K/XP.
You can run Linux.
You can write your own OS. (I bet it will take more than 200 pounds worth of
your time)
How many more options do you need?

Again,
did you factor in shipping costs?
did you figure in the expense amount of legislation against MS in Europe?
would you complain if they simply didn't bother to convert ($99 vs 99
pounds), if the dollar value was equal to or greater than a pound?
would it help if you just go convert some of your pounds into dollars
before trying to buy it?
do your internet purchases have to be in pounds?

 

[Bob I]

Well I suppose you /could/ look at it as a withdrawing of discount - either
way it would have had a drastic impact on the bottom line - and that would
have happened if they had sold just ONE machine.....

So, you agree that OEMs did it to gain a financial advantage over their
competitors.

 

[Gordon]

Again,
did you factor in shipping costs?

Apparently XP CDs were pressed in Ireland - so I expect the Vista ones will
be as well. So shipping costs = negligible....

 

[Alias]

did you figure in the expense amount of legislation against MS in Europe?

What does that have to do with the end user? Did the end user fine MS?
Can you provide one credible source for this speculation or are you just
making it up as you go along?

Alias

 

[Gordon]

So, you agree that OEMs did it to gain a financial advantage over their
competitors.

No, OEMs were shanghied into it by MS.....
the way it worked was like this:
OEM to MS: We would like to sell Windows OS on our PCs
MS to OEM: Fine - we will sell you OEM licences as long as you agree to take
far more than you need, but at a ridiculously low price. IF however, you
deign to sell just one machine with either no OS or a competing one (ie
Linux) then that ridiculously low price suddenly becomes ridiculously
LARGE.....and you must still buy all the licences you contracted to buy....
That is why, up until recently, it was impossible to buy a machine from any
of the large OEMs with either no OS or one other than Windows...

 

[Alias]

There are other choices.
You don't have to buy Vista.

Don't worry, I won't until it has at least SP2, if then.

You can buy a Mac,

Cost prohibitive, especially when you already have a decent computer.

or a PC with an old OS or none at all.

How does one run a PC with "none at all"?

You can still run Windows 95/98/ME/2K/XP.

I do run XP.

You can run Linux.

I run that too.

You can write your own OS. (I bet it will take more than 200 pounds worth of
your time)

Now you're being silly.

How many more options do you need?

Again,
did you factor in shipping costs?

Negligible as they are pressed in Ireland.

did you figure in the expense amount of legislation against MS in Europe?

Not applicable.

would you complain if they simply didn't bother to convert ($99 vs 99
pounds), if the dollar value was equal to or greater than a pound?

With Bush's fiscal and warring policies, that will never happen.

would it help if you just go convert some of your pounds into dollars
before trying to buy it?

What and pay the currency conversion on top of the high price for Vista?

do your internet purchases have to be in pounds?

Yes, they do. The major companies like MS, Adobe, etc., now configure
their web sites to know where you are from and will not let you buy
anything in dollars unless, of course, you're in the USA.

Alias

 

[Eric]

So, you agree that OEMs did it to gain a financial advantage over their
competitors.

The only competitors left that I'm aware of for MS would be Mac or Linux.
OEM price discount is a gift from MS to hardware vendors who go through the
trouble of installing the MS OS on their hardware for sale as a package deal
to have systems that users can take out of a box, plug in, turn on, and
start using.
Having the OS already installed gives users a reason to buy the MS OS rather
than looking for Linux.
Having the loyal customer base with IBM machines who grow attached to their
machines and want to stick with the same machine type when they upgrade
gives MS an edge over Mac, even if Macs can now run IBM software.
MS is not the only company to use such methods. Just look at XM satellite
radio. It comes pre-installed on certain vehicles, and to switch to a
different satellite radio requires different hardware.

 

[Gordon]

OEM price discount is a gift from MS to hardware vendors who go through
the trouble of installing the MS OS on their hardware for sale as a
package deal to have systems that users can take out of a box, plug in,
turn on, and start using.

BWAHAHAHAHA! You realy have got MS right up your backside, haven't you! OEM
price discount is NOT a "gift" it was a very effective method of ensuring
that OEMs did NOT sell any machines with either no OS or a non-windows OS!
Why do you think that up until recently it was impossible to buy a machine
from an OEM with no OS on it at all? Surely THAT wouldn't hurt MS, now would
it?

 

[C A Upsdell]

Yeh, what a pain in the ass when a government tries to protect the consumer.
The same goes for protecting the environment. The damn governments should
keep their noses out of that and leave it to the benevolent corporations to
look after things.

Absolutely. It is so important in the EU to protect consumers from
buying products they want, and to force vendors to offer products (like
Windows N) that no one wants. What bliss for the consumer!

 

[Tx2]

Bob I <[email protected]>
thought we'd be interested in the following...

Interesting concept. A free operating system, against a operating system
you have to pay for, equals no choice.

And how many people do you know who would venture into Open Source
without batting an eyelid?

For the vast majority of people, *nix might as well be on another
planet, so that pretty much does equal no choice.

 

[Kenny]

Related question, is the US version of Vista different from UK version?
I have a sister in the US, can I get her to buy me a copy there and use it
here?

 

[John John]

Actually, the OEM's were eligible for greater discounts based on the
various conditions contained in their agreements. "Penalties" is
implying that they had to pay additional sums.

Actually the OEMs where held to pay an "Operating System" royalty for
each computer shipped, whether or not the computer had an operating
system or not and whether or not it even held a Microsoft operating
system. If, for example, IBM wanted to ship a new computer with OS2
they had to nonetheless pay Microsoft a fee for DOS or Windows, even
though no Microsoft products were installed, thus inflating the cost of
the non Microsoft pc and making it harder to compete. The stick used by
Microsoft to hold the OEM's to the agreement was that their access to
DOS/Windows would be ended if they refused to cooperate. Computer
manufacturers who wanted to sell Windows based computers couldn't sell
other computers without paying Microsoft anyway, so Microsoft was being
paid for BEOS, UNIX or OS2 licenses! To protest meant that the OEM was
in peril of loosing access to DOS/Windows thus loosing a large
percentage of its computer sales. Many OEMs simply decided to not even
offer non Microsoft computers, not because they didn't want to sell them
or not because there was no requests from customers but because the risk
of having a dispute with Microsoft over the licensing was too onerous to
consider. Part of the whole scheme was the now infamous unlawful "Non
Disclosure Agreements" and the unreasonably long contract terms that
Microsoft had the OEM's bound to.

John

 

[Eric]

BWAHAHAHAHA! You realy have got MS right up your backside, haven't you!
OEM price discount is NOT a "gift" it was a very effective method of
ensuring that OEMs did NOT sell any machines with either no OS or a
non-windows OS! Why do you think that up until recently it was impossible
to buy a machine from an OEM with no OS on it at all? Surely THAT wouldn't
hurt MS, now would it?

Eh? What planet are you on? It's been very possible for many years now to
buy a PC with no OS. It is just cheaper to buy a PC with an OEM Windows
version installed than to buy a PC with no OS and a regular Windows version.
It is still cheaper to use Linux, but most people don't know how to install
Linux and set it up or don't want to bother.

 

[Alias]

Related question, is the US version of Vista different from UK version?
I have a sister in the US, can I get her to buy me a copy there and use it
here?

Yes, you can and it will work just fine.

Alias

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

It's been very possible for many years
now to buy a PC with no OS.

True.


It is just cheaper to buy a PC with an
OEM Windows version installed than to buy a PC with no OS and a
regular Windows version.

Not necessarily. I have all my computers custom-built for me by a local
builder. I can buy an OEM copy of Windows from him (which he will install)
or I can buy a copy (either OEM or retail) elsewhere and install it myself.

I always prefer to buy the computer without an operating system and buy a
retail upgrade copy of Windows elsewhere. The retail upgrade version is
hardly any more expensive than the OEM version, and is greatly preferable in
my view, since it comes without the restictions of the OEM version.

 

[Eric]

Don't worry, I won't until it has at least SP2, if then.

I won't either, unless it comes with a new PC, whenever I can afford one.
I'm still running WinME at home.

Cost prohibitive, especially when you already have a decent computer.

Not an issue, if you're discussing the price of OEM Vista (only supposed to
be sold with a new PC), and if as they say Macs can now run practically any
software that is written for the PC.

How does one run a PC with "none at all"?

You install your own ie Linux.

I do run XP.

Is that because you don't see a need to upgrade to Vista right away, or
because you're too busy crying about the cost of it?

I run that too.

Then Vista cost is not an issue.

Now you're being silly.

Hey, that's what Bill Gates did so many years ago. It is possible, but most
people don't want to go to that trouble, so they pay Microsoft whatever they
ask.
It's the same reason most people don't even consider Linux, too much trouble
to learn how to set it up, when the MS OS is all set up for them.

Negligible as they are pressed in Ireland.

OEM Version? Are they shipping the software with the hardware? Is the
hardware vendor in the UK? It would be even more if they ship the OS from
Ireland to the US and back to the UK.

Not applicable.

I hear MS was having antitrust problems in Europe. I don't know if laws or
lawsuits over there would affect their prices just for over there, didn't
bother to ask MS, just speculating why they might be doubled.

With Bush's fiscal and warring policies, that will never happen.

Who said anything about Bush? The USD used to be worth more than the pound.
Bush will be out of office in 2 years. The UK likes war too. Bush and his
Congress have the budget back on track. They've cut the deficit in half,
and plan to eliminate it by 2010.

What and pay the currency conversion on top of the high price for Vista?

No, and pay currency conversion instead of the high price of Vista. Does
that require a trip to the US? I'd bet the $100USD extra you're paying for
Vista is less than a round trip to come to the US and get a copy.

Yes, they do. The major companies like MS, Adobe, etc., now configure
their web sites to know where you are from and will not let you buy
anything in dollars unless, of course, you're in the USA.

Alias

Can you buy it from the US in USD and ship it to the UK? Can someone in the
UK get a US address (PO Box), or do they check your location by your IP?
Maybe just make a friend in the US and have them buy it for you, or sign up
for an exchange program.

Is this high priced UK version the same as the US version?
Where do you get that pound symbol? Do they have different keyboards, or is
there a special program or key combination/function for that?

 

[Eric]

Not necessarily. I have all my computers custom-built for me by a local
builder. I can buy an OEM copy of Windows from him (which he will install)
or I can buy a copy (either OEM or retail) elsewhere and install it
myself.

I always prefer to buy the computer without an operating system and buy a
retail upgrade copy of Windows elsewhere. The retail upgrade version is
hardly any more expensive than the OEM version, and is greatly preferable
in my view, since it comes without the restictions of the OEM version.

The last OS I bought was Windows ME, maybe 5 years ago, when I believe the
full price was $99. I got it with the purchase of a new PC for $50, when
they were otherwise going to sell me the PC with no OS (and they installed
the OS while I waited, even though I know how, to save me the trouble). The
same kind of deals exist for XP/Vista, except with XP they added the
registration process that only allows you to install on one PC at a time.
Then they added a special process for OEM versions that only allowed you to
install it on one PC (can't use the same software on another PC even if you
want to remove it from the first PC). So the OEM version is generally
cheaper if you never plan to reuse it.

Upgrade version is not an option if you're going from a 32-bit OS to a
64-bit.
OEM is much cheaper than full version for anyone who doesn't have any
previous MS OS.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

The last OS I bought was Windows ME, maybe 5 years ago, when I
believe the full price was $99. I got it with the purchase of a new
PC for $50, when they were otherwise going to sell me the PC with no
OS (and they installed the OS while I waited, even though I know how,
to save me the trouble). The same kind of deals exist for XP/Vista,
except with XP they added the registration process that only allows
you to install on one PC at a time.

First, it's called "activation," not "registration."

Second, they didn't add that requirement, it has always been there since at
least Windows 3.i. The only thing new in XP is that there's an enforcement
mechanism.

Then they added a special process
for OEM versions that only allowed you to install it on one PC (can't
use the same software on another PC even if you want to remove it
from the first PC).

That's also long been the rule for Microsoft OEM software. It's the main
reason I'm against using OEM copies.

So the OEM version is generally cheaper if you
never plan to reuse it.

Only slightly, if it all. Even if it costs slightly more, a retail Upgrade
version is worth it, in my opinion, because you don't have to live with the
OEM version restrictions.

Upgrade version is not an option if you're going from a 32-bit OS to a
64-bit.

That's correct.

OEM is much cheaper than full version for anyone who doesn't have any
previous MS OS.

Anyone who doesn't have a qualifying operating system for an upgrade to
Windows XP can buy a used copy of Windows 98 very inexpensively, for example
on eBay. The price advantage of OEM versions vanish or come very close to
vanishing. As far as I'm concerned, OEM versions are never good values
because of their restrictions--especially the restriction that ties them
permanently to the first computer they are installed on.

 

[Bob I]

No, OEMs were shanghied into it by MS.....
the way it worked was like this:
OEM to MS: We would like to sell Windows OS on our PCs
MS to OEM: Fine - we will sell you OEM licences as long as you agree to take
far more than you need, but at a ridiculously low price. IF however, you
deign to sell just one machine with either no OS or a competing one (ie
Linux) then that ridiculously low price suddenly becomes ridiculously
LARGE.....and you must still buy all the licences you contracted to buy....
That is why, up until recently, it was impossible to buy a machine from any
of the large OEMs with either no OS or one other than Windows...

Actually you are confusing OS licensing with the browser wars pricing
inducements. Some links and discussion at link below.

http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/48409524/m/602006680831