axcrypt is this joke?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Paul Johnson
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Paul Johnson said:
OK time to wrap this thread up and I thank you all for your help and
suggestions and I apologize if I seemed boorish over this question. You have
given me food for thought and a few leads which I am exploring.. And you all
might be interested to know the porn you may think I am hiding is details of
my accounts, pensions and other personal matters. All of which I would like
to hide from other users or even intruders - perish the thought. I would
just like to say in response to the idea of zipping the files and unzipping
them that it seems a bit long winded. In fact I may not use any of the
suggestions made to me at all. Lastly, sorry for the top posting but I am
sure most of you did not want to review all the past postings just for me to
say thank you.
Paul

Hello,

Before wrapping this up for good...

I am the author of AxCrypt and just noticed this thread, and I think
that labelling AxCrypt as a joke may be a slightly harsh judgement.
You do not need to like it, try it, want it, or use it but it is for
free and 10's of thousands of users appear happy with it and
understand what it does - and what it does not. Let me explain...

There are many types of programs available, for free or purchase, that
attempt to protect privacy in various ways. Some are:

- File encryption - Encryption, i.e. scrambling of the contents of a
single file with a password - irreversible unless the password is
known. Suitable for mailing, remote storage, backup, and local privacy
to an extent. Examples are AxCrypt, File2File, Blowfish Advanced CS to
name a few very similar programs. They all do basically the same thing
- although of course I'd like to think AxCrypt does it better than the
others... ;-)

- Disk encryption - Encryption of the entire disk. Suitable for
laptops for example. I know of no free such software.

- Encrypted Virtual disks - A file that you can mount in your computer
as if you had an extra disk. Will, when mounted, appear as X: for
example. Most suitable for local privacy on one computer - not so
suitable for e-mail, remote storage etc. PGPDisk, BestCrypt etc are
examples.

All of the above types of programs do, when properly implemented and
used:

+ Protect your contents from viewing by anyone who do not know or get
the passphrase or key, including government agencies and other
organizations with massive monetary resources. Strong encryption is
the only currently known technology which does this.

They will NOT:

- Hide the fact that you actually have private data. Anyone can by
inspecting your hard disk find the encrypted files or virtual disk
containers, or recognize the encrypted disk for what it is. (There are
some who implement what is called plausible deniability which actually
mask which program was used to encrypt to the extent that it's even
not possible to prove that the data found on the disk is not just a
file full of random bits. Then again - who's going to believe that you
keep a 200Mb file of random bits around just for fun, especially as
you most likely happen to have such a program installed in the same
machine... Still, there may be uses for such technology).

There are programs that purport to 'hide' your data, either inside
other files or simply hide the files themselves from viewing in
Windows Explorer.

This is called steganography, not encryption although they frequently
are combined, and is very seldom used for serious purposes although
it's an interesting concept. The reason it's hard to use is that you
can't really hide any significant amounts of data. A megabyte is kind
of hard to hide... Most programs available are usually toys or falsely
labelled as 'hiding your data undetectably'. There are two categories
of such programs which may at first glance appear useful:

- Hide-in-picture type of programs. Purports to hide your data inside
other files undetectably. Real such programs will only be able to hide
a few percent of the container size, i.e. perhaps 5 kilobyte in a
500Kb JPG. Fake such programs just attach your data at the end of the
picture or whatever, and fall for trivial attacks. ("Hmm, let's see...
Why is that JPG 16Mb? When I view it, it's just a picture that
normally occupies 500Kb... Oh, I see, there's 15,5 Mb of weakly
'encrypted' interesting stuff attached at the end!")

- Hide-from-view type of programs. These are mostly just variants on
the 'hide' bit that is already available in all Windows versions. What
they do is add code to your system that actively hides certain files
when marked for hiding, or possibly tweak your disk so that the OS
does not 'see' the data. These programs generally fall to trivial
attacks such as just not starting the program that does the hiding,
viewing the disk with an OS booted from CD-ROM, or killing the
process. They may be useful to hide files from a casual viewer such as
a 7-year old - but a computer savvy 10-year old may well find them...
;-) If that is the level of protection you're after, go for it. It
looks nice and is easy to use. Just don't think that you've gotten any
more than you actually get.

Then there are countless variations and combinations on the above
themes, more or less ambitious.

AxCrypt does not hide encrypted files - and this is for a reason.
Actually two.

1 - It can't be done. Not really. AxCrypt is intended to be a serious
program for serious use, not a toy.

2 - There are too few use-cases where there's a legitimate need to
hide the fact that the private data is there at all. This thread
touched upon the subject of porn, and this is probably the most common
perceived need to actually hide the fact that the data exists at all.
Unfortunately there is a lot of material produced that is not only
explicit, but in fact illegal to produce, distribute and own. When
implementing features in AxCrypt I always ask the question 'why is
this needed, and who wants it', and then rate pros and cons. Certain
features are really only useful for illegitimate purposes, and such
will not be implemented in AxCrypt. It's not enough that there is one
legitimate use-case, if there's a hundred or a thousand non-legit uses
that outweigh it. That is why AxCrypt does not hide it's data, nor
attempt to give 'plausible deniability' as mentioned above, nor
include embedded picture and movie-viewers (there are quite a few such
available, labelled to use to 'protect your family album' from prying
eyes. Really. Sure.)

For your stated purpose of maintaining your privacy concerning
financial statements, tax returns etc AxCrypt and similar programs
such as those mentioned above are probably just what you need, or
possibly virtual disk containers such as PGPDisk.

You do need to understand the usage paradigm for each program though,
otherwise you may be lulled into a false sense of security. If you do
not feel up to gaining that level of understanding, I suggest either
not keeping the data on a computer, or simply physically locking the
machine or disk up in a box or a locked room and not attach it to the
Internet. In many cases this is the most practical and easy kind of
security for personal or corporate privacy. It's the model used by
most security conscious military and research organizations - at the
end of the day the disks are removed and locked up in a safe. Simple
and safe.

Best regards,

Svante
 
Svante said:
Hello,

Before wrapping this up for good...

I am the author of AxCrypt and just noticed this thread, and I think
that labelling AxCrypt as a joke may be a slightly harsh judgement.
You do not need to like it, try it, want it, or use it but it is for
free and 10's of thousands of users appear happy with it and
understand what it does - and what it does not. Let me explain...

There are many types of programs available, for free or purchase, that
attempt to protect privacy in various ways. Some are:

- File encryption - Encryption, i.e. scrambling of the contents of a
single file with a password - irreversible unless the password is
known. Suitable for mailing, remote storage, backup, and local privacy
to an extent. Examples are AxCrypt, File2File, Blowfish Advanced CS to
name a few very similar programs. They all do basically the same thing
- although of course I'd like to think AxCrypt does it better than the
others... ;-)

- Disk encryption - Encryption of the entire disk. Suitable for
laptops for example. I know of no free such software.

- Encrypted Virtual disks - A file that you can mount in your computer
as if you had an extra disk. Will, when mounted, appear as X: for
example. Most suitable for local privacy on one computer - not so
suitable for e-mail, remote storage etc. PGPDisk, BestCrypt etc are
examples.

All of the above types of programs do, when properly implemented and
used:

+ Protect your contents from viewing by anyone who do not know or get
the passphrase or key, including government agencies and other
organizations with massive monetary resources. Strong encryption is
the only currently known technology which does this.

They will NOT:

- Hide the fact that you actually have private data. Anyone can by
inspecting your hard disk find the encrypted files or virtual disk
containers, or recognize the encrypted disk for what it is. (There are
some who implement what is called plausible deniability which actually
mask which program was used to encrypt to the extent that it's even
not possible to prove that the data found on the disk is not just a
file full of random bits. Then again - who's going to believe that you
keep a 200Mb file of random bits around just for fun, especially as
you most likely happen to have such a program installed in the same
machine... Still, there may be uses for such technology).

There are programs that purport to 'hide' your data, either inside
other files or simply hide the files themselves from viewing in
Windows Explorer.

This is called steganography, not encryption although they frequently
are combined, and is very seldom used for serious purposes although
it's an interesting concept. The reason it's hard to use is that you
can't really hide any significant amounts of data. A megabyte is kind
of hard to hide... Most programs available are usually toys or falsely
labelled as 'hiding your data undetectably'. There are two categories
of such programs which may at first glance appear useful:

- Hide-in-picture type of programs. Purports to hide your data inside
other files undetectably. Real such programs will only be able to hide
a few percent of the container size, i.e. perhaps 5 kilobyte in a
500Kb JPG. Fake such programs just attach your data at the end of the
picture or whatever, and fall for trivial attacks. ("Hmm, let's see...
Why is that JPG 16Mb? When I view it, it's just a picture that
normally occupies 500Kb... Oh, I see, there's 15,5 Mb of weakly
'encrypted' interesting stuff attached at the end!")

- Hide-from-view type of programs. These are mostly just variants on
the 'hide' bit that is already available in all Windows versions. What
they do is add code to your system that actively hides certain files
when marked for hiding, or possibly tweak your disk so that the OS
does not 'see' the data. These programs generally fall to trivial
attacks such as just not starting the program that does the hiding,
viewing the disk with an OS booted from CD-ROM, or killing the
process. They may be useful to hide files from a casual viewer such as
a 7-year old - but a computer savvy 10-year old may well find them...
;-) If that is the level of protection you're after, go for it. It
looks nice and is easy to use. Just don't think that you've gotten any
more than you actually get.

Then there are countless variations and combinations on the above
themes, more or less ambitious.

AxCrypt does not hide encrypted files - and this is for a reason.
Actually two.

1 - It can't be done. Not really. AxCrypt is intended to be a serious
program for serious use, not a toy.

2 - There are too few use-cases where there's a legitimate need to
hide the fact that the private data is there at all. This thread
touched upon the subject of porn, and this is probably the most common
perceived need to actually hide the fact that the data exists at all.
Unfortunately there is a lot of material produced that is not only
explicit, but in fact illegal to produce, distribute and own. When
implementing features in AxCrypt I always ask the question 'why is
this needed, and who wants it', and then rate pros and cons. Certain
features are really only useful for illegitimate purposes, and such
will not be implemented in AxCrypt. It's not enough that there is one
legitimate use-case, if there's a hundred or a thousand non-legit uses
that outweigh it. That is why AxCrypt does not hide it's data, nor
attempt to give 'plausible deniability' as mentioned above, nor
include embedded picture and movie-viewers (there are quite a few such
available, labelled to use to 'protect your family album' from prying
eyes. Really. Sure.)

For your stated purpose of maintaining your privacy concerning
financial statements, tax returns etc AxCrypt and similar programs
such as those mentioned above are probably just what you need, or
possibly virtual disk containers such as PGPDisk.

You do need to understand the usage paradigm for each program though,
otherwise you may be lulled into a false sense of security. If you do
not feel up to gaining that level of understanding, I suggest either
not keeping the data on a computer, or simply physically locking the
machine or disk up in a box or a locked room and not attach it to the
Internet. In many cases this is the most practical and easy kind of
security for personal or corporate privacy. It's the model used by
most security conscious military and research organizations - at the
end of the day the disks are removed and locked up in a safe. Simple
and safe.

Best regards,

Svante

Svante, thank you for taking the time to answer all these security
questions so clearly for the group. I, for one, thank you for providing
the freeware community with AxCrypt, an excellent and highly reliable
encryption program.
 
OK time to wrap this thread up and I thank you all for your help and
suggestions and I apologize if I seemed boorish over this question. You have
given me food for thought and a few leads which I am exploring.. And you all
might be interested to know the porn you may think I am hiding is details of
my accounts, pensions and other personal matters.

You said before - I quote :

"YEP still can open the encrypted file. All I have to do is click on
the file
like normal ( even tho it is encrypted) and the picture shows in
Irfanview."

You take pictures of your account details ?

:-)

Glad to see you can thank people properly - hope you get it sorted out
 
(e-mail address removed) (Svante) wrote in
I am the author of AxCrypt and just noticed this thread, and I think
that labelling AxCrypt as a joke may be a slightly harsh judgement.
You do not need to like it, try it, want it, or use it but it is for
free and 10's of thousands of users appear happy with it and
understand what it does - and what it does not. Let me explain...

There are many types of programs available, for free or purchase, that
attempt to protect privacy in various ways. Some are:
Best regards,

Svante
http://axcrypt.sourceforge.net
Free AES Point'n'Click File Encryption for Windows 9x/ME/2K/XP

Excellent info.! Thanks for taking the time to share your explanation. It
is appreciated by most, I'm sure :) Encryption-lock/hide folders and
files is very much hoodoo/voodoo for a lot of people, including myself,
and widely misunderstood I imagine.
 
Rather than go to bottom posting on this issue - let me just say thank you
Svante, for clarifying the situation. I did not know about so many
varieties. I appreciate the time it took to make your position clear here
Paul
 
Yes Alistair - I did say in my thank-you speech "other personal matters",
lol
Paul
(personal being the operative word).
 
"Paul Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote:
I will start at the top here again. Is there a program that will lock a
folder containing files of a sensitive nature from other users? And I do NOT
mean a virtual drive program where you put such files. Such (freeware)
virtual drives do not hold a heck of a lot. I also do NOT want AXCRYPT which
seems not to work the way I want. I would have thought it would have been
the simplest of programs to make whereby you can just apply a password on a
selected folder or file. I cannot make such a program myself but surely
there is one. (probably have to pay for it though)

I think a virtual drive program is what you need. Most freeware
programs that encrypt drives are crippleware, which is why you don't
want them. Check out Encryption For The Masses here:

http://www.woundedmoon.org/win32/e4m202a.html

Create your encrypted volume, dump whatever you want in it and it will
be password protected at the highest level possible in Windows. You
still have traces floating around in your swap file, as Windows really
never understood the concept of security/data integrity.

ScramDisk is another one you might try:

http://www.woundedmoon.org/win32/sd301r3c.html

Either of these will be as effective as commercial programs, such as
PGP Disk, for all practical purposes. They are dated, but I've never
heard of either being broken.

Defrag after install to leave contiguous drive space for the encrypted
volumes.
 
Duddits said:
NOT true. Truecrypt (WinXP, 2000, NT) http://www.truecrypt.tk/ will make
containers 2GB and larger. Scramdisk (Win95, 98,ME)
http://www.scramdisk.clara.net/ will make containers as large as 2 GB.



Lock Folder v5.0 should do what you want
http://www.realclicks.com/LockFolder/LockFolder.exe
The original Lock Folder has changed it's name to Folder Access and can
only lock 4 folders.
http://www.lockfolder.net/

regards

Dud

there is also PGPDisk which has a REALLY good locking mechanism and when
unlocked mounts a 'virtual' disk drive onto 'your computer'
 
Svante, thank you for taking the time to answer all these security
questions so clearly for the group. I, for one, thank you for providing
the freeware community with AxCrypt, an excellent and highly reliable
encryption program.

Over 150 lines quoted to add two sentences? For pity's sake man, learn
how to snip.
 
Rather than go to bottom posting on this issue - let me just say thank you
Svante...
..I appreciate the time it took to make your position clear here

And I'm sure many of us would appreciate your taking the time to snip
instead of quoting 150+ lines in your response. Why, then you might
not even need to top post!
 
who are you - the news group policeman?
Paul



john p. said:
And I'm sure many of us would appreciate your taking the time to snip
instead of quoting 150+ lines in your response. Why, then you might
not even need to top post!
 
On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 20:23:23 -0400, Paul Johnson wrote...
Lastly, sorry for the top posting but I am
sure most of you did not want to review all the past postings just for me to
say thank you.

That's where 'snipping' comes in handy.

HTH
 
It has been reported by the Department of Homeland Security that on Fri, 3 Sep
I will start at the top here again. Is there a program that will lock a
folder containing files of a sensitive nature from other users?

Google KPKFile.




CUL8R



R*Horse



www.sonic.net/~lkokot



"Take a look behind you - upstream - now you begin to
recognize this country, don't you?"

"Yes, I do recognize it now. It is the most wonderful
thing I ever heard of; by a long shot the most
wonderful - and unexpected."

Mark Twain
Life on the Mississippi
 
Alastair Smeaton said:
On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 20:23:23 -0400, "Paul Johnson"

You take pictures of your account details ?

:-)

I think I know what you infer, but it could be so.

For information of doubtful utility , strange bugs I may try and find later
etc ,
I sometimes record screen videos, or at least progressive snapshots.

a 10 or 20MB MB video and audio commentary of config , settings
and layout is usually quicker and cheaper than creating or assembling
1 or 2 k of text describing the problem, 1 cent versus 50 cents and up

video is now content rich and cheap, user created text is content poor and
expensive, strange world

e.g. I scan bills, accounts, letters ,interesting articles and the like
at 20Mb for a colour A4 page it isn't worth
the time to look and crop out whitespace.
Storage costs less than 1c, cropping out 90% or waiting to see that
it would look okay in monochrome as a 0.01cent jpeg would cost 15-20 cents.

I may want to encrypt it, on the other hand it is mostly low value and
the best thing to hide is that there is something worth hiding.

one day the AI will be able to index it properly on the Terabyte desktop
of course by then articles on building AI will be useless ;-)
 
I think I know what you infer, but it could be so.

For information of doubtful utility , strange bugs I may try and find later
etc ,
I sometimes record screen videos, or at least progressive snapshots.

but much more likely what Op admitted to - files which he wanted
personally private.

I have a few personal scanned files - geneology search pics of birth
certs etc - but more likely what the OP admitted to :-)
 
john p. said:
And I'm sure many of us would appreciate your taking the time to snip
instead of quoting 150+ lines in your response. Why, then you might
not even need to top post!

Oh look... a whiney little beeeech that is going to tell everyone how to
post!
 
Duddits said:
Lock Folder v5.0 should do what you want
http://www.realclicks.com/LockFolder/LockFolder.exe
The original Lock Folder has changed it's name to Folder Access and can
only lock 4 folders.
http://www.lockfolder.net/

http://www.dirfile.com/lock_folder.htm

Alas - the download link (as noted above) gives me a "connection
refused" response and I didn't spot another link to that version (I
didn't look *real* hard).

This sounds like it might be a candidate for one of the "last freeware
version" sites. Do you know if the file can it be distributed?

Susan
 
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