Avant vs. Maxthon

  • Thread starter Thread starter John Corliss
  • Start date Start date
Toad said:
Give GreenBrowser a try - still downloadable in zip form (no install)
and is based off the same original MyIE code that MyIE2 is.

Toad
Click to expand...

Thanks, but I think I'll stick with Maxthon for the time being.

--
Regards from John Corliss
No adware, cdware, commercial software, crippleware, demoware,
nagware, shareware, spyware, time-limited software, trialware, viruses
or warez please.

Because Andy Mabbett is stalking me in this group, I have him killfiled.
 
badgolferman said:
Okay, I'll respect that. By the way, how many registry entries does the
Mozilla program you're using have?
Click to expand...

S'il vous plait: I want to answer that one.

I don't want to answer it by looking in my own active registry. Due to
the fact that I have complicated matters by registering the Mozilla
Active-X control, for use by some misc apps. And due to the fact that
I have a few Mozilla filetype keys in there, left lingering without need.
They got there either because I did not fully clean up after the Mozilla
installer; or they got there when I did some test, forgetting to clean up
afterwards, involving checking into how Mozilla did things when one said
yes to giving it associations.

The question I am interested in with programs is which writes to the
registry or external files are forced and unavoidable. Exclusive of
those which are voluntary and as exclusive of unnecessary installer
debris.

So I booted into my semi-virgin w98 partition, one that has never met
any of the Mozilla programs.

I made a copy of Mozilla's bin directory. Then I ran the executable. I
deleted the default profile that it creates off in the appdata folder,
and chose my own location for a profile in the Mozilla folder.

That leaves, for external files, two small ones.

%appdata%\Mozilla\ pluginreg.dat (~1k), registry.dat (~2k)

I've never been able to budge those. Mozilla executable evidently is
hard-coded to look there first, as its inquiry routine on where to look
for active profiles. It's the same deal with Firefox. And with the Mozilla
Active-X control. K-Meleon alone in the family keeps all files completely
self-contained.

For registry, Mozilla requires only one key.

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Mozilla]
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Mozilla\Desktop]
"haveBeenSet"="1"
"showDialog"="1"

This key tells it whether to ask, on its startup, the question about taking
over associations.

For the record, this was Mozilla 1.6. I know I'm a bit behind the times;
nevertheless, I'd bet high wager that the described behavior is close
enough to identical in later releases.

Next, still on the virgin partition, I checked in with Firefox. On this
one, in additional to an installed one already on disk, I had an installer
to log. I almost thought I'd be reasonably current, too, since there was
a version .91 setup file stored on my drive. But when I got to it, found
it was a corrupt download. So I used another setup file that was there, a
version .8 Firefox setup. But again, I believe this test is still valid;
same as with Mozilla, I much believe the results apply equally to current
versions.

Firefox, to run, all it insisted upon was that pair of files off in the
appdata directory. As I did with Mozilla, I set the local profile data
into a folder of my choice.

%appdata%\Phoenix\ pluginreg.dat (~1k), registry.dat (~2k)

Firefox needed no registry entries to run.

Its installer had added registry entries. They were mild. After running an
app, I always delete these two:

; HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Uninstall\Mozilla Firefox (0.8.)
; HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\firefox.exe

The first one I delete because I do not use the uninstall routines that
are bundled with programs. The second one because it's only needed <1%
of the time. For an app that cannot figure out its own location, when
it's hunting for its libraries. Then, or the ability for launch from
places like the Run... box, I prefer using the method of putting an .lnk
to the app in my path. Finally, the one other possible use, for reinstall
or upgrade, in case installer looks there -- well, I can tell an installer
where to put files.

I also had no hesitation about deleting the following two keys:

; HKCU\Software\mozilla.org
; HKLM\Software\mozilla.org

I remember deleting those long ago in my active registry, and that has
never affected Mozilla. So it would not affect Firefox either. The data
there is the version release and the installation path. It's just the
installer sending itself notes, and nothing the program needs to run.

There was one last pair of keys added by the installer, which might be
needed. I deleted them, and they were not re-added, and did not affect
Firefox's ability to run. However, they involve defining paths for
Firefox extensions. So it might likely enough be that once one starts
installing the Firefox extensions, these keys will either be re-added
automatically (most likely), or else I could need to import a deleted
key (the HKLM one) back into the registy.

; HKLM\Software\Mozilla\Mozilla Firefox 0.8.
; HKCU\Software\Mozilla\Mozilla Firefox 0.8.

....\Software\Mozilla\Mozilla Firefox 0.8.\Extensions]
...."Components"="D:\\INET\\WEB\\test\\firefox\\bin\\Components"
...."Plugins"="D:\\INET\\WEB\\test\\firefox\\bin\\Plugins"
...."PathToExe"="D:\\INET\\WEB\\test\\firefox\\bin\\firefox.exe"


SUMMARY REPORT ON THE MOZILLA FAMILY

Required on run K-Meleon: no external files, and no registry
Required on run Mozilla: two external files, and one small hklm regkey
Required to run Firefox: two external files, and no registry
Required to run Firefox+Extensions: ", and maybe a small hklm & hkcu key
 
John Corliss said:
omega wrote: [Avant Browser]
And that which may or may not still be the case with the latest version: It
puts its name into the header that will be sent out when you are browsing the
web with any MSIE-based web browser.
Click to expand...

Now this really sucks. Maxthon gives you the option of not adding a
browser ID. That alone is enough to make me go back to Maxthon or to
entirely give up on both Avant and Maxthon since Maxthon has other
problems I find unacceptable.
Click to expand...

On Avant version 10, I didn't check on that part of the behavior, having
done an install and very brief run only long enough to check whether it was
still trashing one's entire group of inet related filetype associations. The
version where I'd spent more time and got a log report for that behavior, v8
or v9, it was the worst action I'd seen in that department. For not only did
it add its own name to the User Agent field -- but it also went in and deleted
my values under that key. One can have as many values under User Agent as fills
the heart's desire. Just because Avant wanted to advertise itself there, it did
not then have to then take the extreme of going in and demolishing other values.

As you noted, it is a voluntary value with Maxthon.

There are two apps that I've used which do force a write on that key. Although
of course neither one goes in and wipes one's other values there.

The first is Crazy Browser. But, it deletes its name back out when it is closed.
I consider this fair enough. It is not trying to make a system-wide change upon
my MSIE settings, and is asking only to brag about itself a wee bit while it is
actively loaded.

Of course, that is still less than ideal, for it to force add of that key at
any time, as it reduces one's privacy by making the User Agent header field
more noticeably distinct.

The other program I've used that does a forced write there, that's AC-Plug
(Always-Connected Plug), by IOPus. This is merely a keep-alive program. It has
no business whatsoever going in and changing my browser header. That makes it
a form of adware. Not where it is sending me ads, but instead where it is using
me to do its advertising. When I used to run this, I took to launching it from
a batch file, in order to delete its name out after it added it.

start acplug -on -tray
sleep 2
echo y | reg delete "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\
Internet Settings\User Agent\Post Platform\iOpus-I-M" >nul
:: (last line was broken in two, for this post)

Maybe it'd have made more sense that I not run that program at all. Just, I'd never
got around to researching the best keep-alive program; and with current ISP, no
longer need one. Anyway, IOPus sucks doing that. And it's a trend I do not want
to see grow. Programs using our Browser header to advertise their names.

.. . . .

One thing about the User Agent header is that it can be fun for end-user
customization. As sort of a vanity license plate, or bumper sticker.

For instance, there is that situation where I go to a site which, after it detects
that I do not have javascript enabled, gives me a message like this:

"Entry Barred. Your Browser Fails.
Click microsoft.com and download a Modern Browser."

Y'know, I think it should be the reverse. At the front door of some sites, after
they detect that javascript is actually enabled, they should put up this message:

"Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here...."

Yes, in that last tangent, maybe I'm exaggerating my position a tad.. <g>
Back to those sites that are 100% javascript-dependent -- where you get that
message about your browser. Or else get simply a dead, blank page. And same
with those sites where you get, again, nothing other than a blank page, and
not a single link to proceed -- because of the fact you have chosen not to
submit to the Macromedia Flash business.

At those junctures, I like the idea that when the web "master" reviews their
logs, and learns who has clicked on the first page, and not continued, departing
instead, they can be told the reason. So I've occasionally set in my browser
headers a note for their logs...

The following is a sample version. (I've used "more adult" language at times...)

---------------vanity bumper sticker----------------
REGEDIT4

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Internet Settings\User
Agent\Post Platform]
; line above needs to be one continuous line
; can also use HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\...

"Trident survivor=""
"flash sux fat eggs"=""
"javascript sux"=""
"activex sux harder"=""
"my other car is a moZ"=""
;
 
Okay, I'll respect that. By the way, how many registry entries does the
Mozilla program you're using have?
Click to expand...

I don't know about Mozilla, but once I had to install MS Visual Basic
and I made about 35,000!!!!! registry entries. That IMO displays an
utter disregard for the user.

I then deleted it and restored a backup registry and dropped the
programming class that required it.
 
["omega"; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:46:47 GMT]
I was happiest back somewhere around version 7x. Before the onset of
the nag-donation windows.
Click to expand...

But these only appeared once after an installation or upgrade. At least,
on my machine.
 
Jaxxim said:
["omega"; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:46:47 GMT]
I was happiest back somewhere around version 7x. Before the onset of
the nag-donation windows.
Click to expand...

But these only appeared once after an installation or upgrade. At least,
on my machine.
Click to expand...

I've been running version 9.1 for a while, and I get those nags on startup
fairly often (few times a month). Maybe something to do with after I've
closed MyIE erratically in some way. I have faith that if I upgrade, it
should go away. That it's only a matter of it being an earlier bug. Just,
I really liked the days when there was no such code there at all, so that
bug couldn't even enter in.

Not that I don't want that BloodChen finds his way to satisfactory $$
compensation. (On that, my meandering thought... A clever fast-talker
from the west could contract with a big ISP or similar. To provide a
branded Maxthon, which has that company's name. That company markets all
the features of "their" browser to potential customers, as part of what
is offered for signing up with that company. There is a large population
out there that's not conscious of the fact that they can download any
freeware browser on their own. So they would think they are paying for
a good premium service: the ISP account with special browser.)
 
Jaxxim said:
["omega"; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 09:42:24 GMT]

SUMMARY REPORT ON THE MOZILLA FAMILY
Click to expand...


Awesome report! Thanks, Karen S.
Click to expand...

I second that thanks.

--
Regards from John Corliss
No adware, cdware, commercial software, crippleware, demoware,
nagware, shareware, spyware, time-limited software, trialware, viruses
or warez please.

Because Andy Mabbett is stalking me in this group, I have him killfiled.
 
Heh. Smartass.

Guess it devolves down to a balancing act between program usefulness
and registry bloat (more or less like you said). Since I use Moz, the
need for an MSIE overlay is less significant. Also, I *loath* Outlook
Express because of it's dangerous default configuration and much
prefer the Moz mail and news reader.

Last night I went back to (a newer version of) Maxthon. I was
pleasantly surprised to discover that since during the uninstall of
the previous version I opted not to delete the Maxthon folder, all of
my settings were maintained and the update went very painlessly. I was
also very happy with the way that "Total Uninstall" totally
uninstalled Avant.
Click to expand...

Hey John, have you tried switching Maxthon to run on the Moz engine yet?
Since you already have Moz installed, no need to download the Moz
extensions. (click "New Window" icon,, "Use Gecko Engine", re-start Maxthon)

-- Bob
 
Bob said:
Hey John, have you tried switching Maxthon to run on the Moz engine yet?
Since you already have Moz installed, no need to download the Moz
extensions. (click "New Window" icon,, "Use Gecko Engine", re-start Maxthon)
Click to expand...

Nah, I don't really see the need, Bob. 80)>
The main reason I use Maxthon is because there are some sites I go to
that won't load properly in Moz, yet will in IE. I know, I know, I'm
supposed to eschew such sites.....however, one of them is my free
email account. Maxthon blocks the idiotic popups and most of the
garish ads. It also allows me to download things like .iso files REAL
fast, and sorry, but Moz's download speed doesn't cut it for me.

--
Regards from John Corliss
No adware, cdware, commercial software, crippleware, demoware,
nagware, shareware, spyware, time-limited software, trialware, viruses
or warez please.

Because Andy Mabbett is stalking me in this group, I have him killfiled.
 
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