Attn: Bob Headrick

[IntergalacticExpandingPanda]

I am not so interested in yields because I do not usually print a lot of
stuff, but sometimes I print photos and thats when I use a lot of ink. I am
much more interested in the price of cartridges than the yield. For me, I
want to try to find a printer which is fairly reasonably priced, though to
me ALL ink cartridges are expensive. I can't afford to lay out a lot of
money at one time which was what I told you before. I am interested in costs
to maintain a printer and that means cartridges.

But the yields determine how often you BUY cartridges.

You're right, I print more than you. I burn though about 30-60 color
cartridges/year. But I spend an less than you do by a couple orders
of magnitude because I buy OEM cartridges and refill them.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/12-oz-Refill-Kit...34.c0.m14.l1262&_trkparms=|301:1|293:1|294:30

About 4 black refills, and about 4 color refills of each color. CDN
$20 plus shipping, so let's say $30. It's a good deal.

chose #74 and #75 regular and XL, but not much chance I would be buying XL
even if it is 3 times more.

Best Buy U.S. with Best Buy Canada prices in brackets.

HP C4345 and most of the HPC4000 series which use #74 and #75
#74 regular = $14.99  (30.99)
#75 regular =$19.99  (24.99)

#74XL =$34.99 ($53.99) - almost $20.00 more for same item in Canada
# 75XL=$40.99 ($61.99)  = $21.00 more for same item.

HP 74=$31@200p = 15.5c/page
HP 74XL=$53.99@750P=7.2c/page
DOUBLE THE COST

HP75=$24.99 @ 165p = 15c/page
HP75XL=$61.99 @ 510P = 12.1C/PAGE
20% HIGHER

Canon cartridges (Canon brand)
#BCI-6 -$13.49 ($18.99) - 5 carts X $13.49 =$ 67.48 US (5X18.99 = $94..95
Can.) - about $27.50 difference.

bci-6 $18.99 @ 280P = 6.8C/PAGE
X 3 20.4c/page

The small black is used about 1/3 less than the other tanks

Staples Twinpack
BCI-3e $29.20 CDN @ 1000 page = 2.9c/page
+ 1.6c/page for the cost of the head.
4.5c/page CDN

You "might" save money printing color on your HP using OEM ink, so
long as you don't toss away too much color ink when one tank becomes
empty.

BUT without a doubt, buying OEM ink the HP will cost more. The HP
costs twice as much to print text, triple as much if you buy the
regular cartridges.

But here's the kicker, you're the sort of user who's looking at per
tank cost rather than cost per page. You already have a ip4000 which
has a TON of aftermarket INK in cartridges READY to go.

I saw an ad today for the Canon MP 480 sometimes on sale here for $69.00.
Its a 3 in 1 and prices for the carts don't seem so expensive. I don't know
anything about this printer.

It's the same deal as last year. It'll cost MORE to print with the
mp480 than the ip4000, without a doubt, but a great deal.

Canon OEM carts:
PG-211XL - $34.99 Can.$ -

PG-210XL @ 400 pages = 8.75c/page

Double the cartridge cost of your IP4000 with less yield
Assumign US prices.

CL211XL  -$27.99    - $53.00

@ 329p yield 16.1c/page
vs
BCI-6 @ $15 x 3 = 15c/page plus black which is seldom used. And given
the CL211XL prints three colors to make black, the IP4000 is without a
doubt the better deal.

Of course a lot depends on how many ml's is in the carts. 16 ml's is going
to print more pages than 13 ml. But the MP 480 is cheaper carts.

I think 16ml is for the regular sized cartridge. And we're talking
16ml of three colors, so 5.3ml of each color.

You already have a printer that is cheap to maintain. A newer printer
will cost you more.

 

[Mary]

Mary - you are investigating so many factors that you are losing sight of
the real issue. You want to minimize your printing costs. You've now
gotten more information than you can possibly need to make a decision. I
remember that you agonized over the purchase of the ip4000 and finally took
many people's advice and were very satisfied with your new printer.

First of all, I don't know the MP480 printer, but it appears to have a
tricolor cart and a black cart. The cart stock numbers appear to be for the
most recent generations of canon printers which have chips on the carts.
You will not find compatable carts for these printers for a very long time
as the chip on these carts is different from the previous generation of
chipped carts which have been duplicated for aftermarket prefilled carts.
The absolute least coverage is generally from these tricolor carts, in
addition to which when one color runs out you throw away what is left of the
remaining colors. The number of ml. of ink in a tricolor cart is the total
of the three colors, so you can see that there is really very little ink of
each color and you will be buying new carts much more often than if you have
separate color carts. Looking for the least expensive cart is ultimately
false economy if you have to replace them three or more times more often.

The ip4000 printer has a world of aftermarket prefilled carts.
Unfortunately, purchasing the ones from a place like Staples isn't that much
of a savings over OEM carts, and buying them from a vendor online may get
you decent carts or not. The ones that I've heard are decent are G&G carts.
If no one on this newsgroup can tell you where to by them you can check out
Neil Slade's web site on inks and printers and see where he buys them. My
preference is to know the producer of the ink I put into my printer and that
is why I refill OEM canon carts with Image Specialist inks from Precision
Colors in Canada. The absolute least cost you will have will be to purchase
a new printhead for your ip4000 and refill carts for about $1 per cart.
Otherwise you are going to buy either OEM carts for a new printer or try to
find aftermarket carts that work well and have decent color balance for
photos. There is also a remote possibility that your printhead can be
cleaned with additional efforts. I already referred you to the nifty-stuff
forum site where there is more information on cleaning a printhead.

I feel badly that you keep circling around the issue and continue to beat
yourself up with all the research you are doing.

Don't feel badly for me Burt. I don't beat myself up with all the research
I do. like to do research. It helps me make up my mind when I have several
ways I can go. I collect information and for me, the more information I have
the better, though for you or others it may be too much information. For me,
its not.

By the way, I have read that certain of the HP printers do print more pages
per ml. than some other printers. It may have something to do with the
construction of the cart and recapture of ink that otherwise goes into the
waste ink pad in Epson and Canon printers. Don't hold me to that
explanation as my only experience with HP printers has been with several
monocolor black laser HP printers.

I value your opinion Burt and will consider what you have said. You always
give good information. I consider what people say to me, though It all
helps me decide what I want to do, then I make my decisions.. Thanks for
your help.

Mary

 

[Mary]

"IntergalacticExpandingPanda" <[email protected]>
wrote in message

I am not so interested in yields because I do not usually print a lot of
stuff, but sometimes I print photos and thats when I use a lot of ink. I am
much more interested in the price of cartridges than the yield. For me, I
want to try to find a printer which is fairly reasonably priced, though to
me ALL ink cartridges are expensive. I can't afford to lay out a lot of
money at one time which was what I told you before. I am interested in costs
to maintain a printer and that means cartridges.

Yes,but so does how much printing you and the price of cartridges you can
afford. Thats what I look at. I don't print a lot, though sometimes do, and
I don't want to go into all the details of how many pages, how many yields,
etc. Right or wrong to you, I do my own calculations.
cartridges/year. But I spend an less than you do by a couple orders
of magnitude because I buy OEM cartridges and refill them.

Thats up to you. You print a lot.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/12-oz-Refill-Kit...34.c0.m14.l1262&_trkparms=|301:1|293:1|294:30

About 4 black refills, and about 4 color refills of each color. CDN

$20 plus shipping, so let's say $30. It's a good deal.

That is ok if you want to refill. I don't. I can't say I will never ever
refill, but it would be my last resort. Its too much trouble, though for you
and others its fine.

chose #74 and #75 regular and XL, but not much chance I would be buying XL
even if it is 3 times more.

Best Buy U.S. with Best Buy Canada prices in brackets.

HP C4345 and most of the HPC4000 series which use #74 and #75
#74 regular = $14.99 (30.99)
#75 regular =$19.99 (24.99)

#74XL =$34.99 ($53.99) - almost $20.00 more for same item in Canada
# 75XL=$40.99 ($61.99) = $21.00 more for same item.

HP 74=$31@200p = 15.5c/page
HP 74XL=$53.99@750P=7.2c/page
DOUBLE THE COST

HP75=$24.99 @ 165p = 15c/page
HP75XL=$61.99 @ 510P = 12.1C/PAGE
20% HIGHER

Canon cartridges (Canon brand)
#BCI-6 -$13.49 ($18.99) - 5 carts X $13.49 =$ 67.48 US (5X18.99 = $94.95
Can.) - about $27.50 difference.

bci-6 $18.99 @ 280P = 6.8C/PAGE
X 3 20.4c/page

The small black is used about 1/3 less than the other tanks

Staples Twinpack
BCI-3e $29.20 CDN @ 1000 page = 2.9c/page
+ 1.6c/page for the cost of the head.
4.5c/page CDN

You "might" save money printing color on your HP using OEM ink, so
long as you don't toss away too much color ink when one tank becomes
empty.

Maybe. I am not sure about that. I don't have enough information on HP OEM
ink.

BUT without a doubt, buying OEM ink the HP will cost more. The HP

costs twice as much to print text, triple as much if you buy the
regular cartridges.

Remanufactured ink carts would be cheaper.

But here's the kicker, you're the sort of user who's looking at per
tank cost rather than cost per page. You already have a ip4000 which
has a TON of aftermarket INK in cartridges READY to go.

I am not asking about Canon IP4000. I am asking about an HP 4345 and that
was what my original post was about.
I want another printer and will probably keep the IP4000 for now at least.

I saw an ad today for the Canon MP 480 sometimes on sale here for $69.00.
Its a 3 in 1 and prices for the carts don't seem so expensive. I don't know
anything about this printer.

mp480 than the ip4000, without a doubt, but a great deal.

Canon OEM carts:
PG-211XL - $34.99 Can.$ -

PG-210XL @ 400 pages = 8.75c/page

Double the cartridge cost of your IP4000 with less yield
Assumign US prices.

CL211XL -$27.99 - $53.00

@ 329p yield 16.1c/page
vs
BCI-6 @ $15 x 3 = 15c/page plus black which is seldom used. And given
the CL211XL prints three colors to make black, the IP4000 is without a
doubt the better deal.

I am not asking about the IP4000.

Of course a lot depends on how many ml's is in the carts. 16 ml's is going
to print more pages than 13 ml. But the MP 480 is cheaper carts.

I think 16ml is for the regular sized cartridge. And we're talking
16ml of three colors, so 5.3ml of each color.

You already have a printer that is cheap to maintain. A newer printer
will cost you more.

You have already given me your opinion on this several times. I want another
printer as well. Is anything wrong with that?
Thanks for your comments and opinion. You have given me a lot of
information.

Mary

 

[measekite]

Mary - you are investigating so many factors that you are losing sight of
the real issue. You want to minimize your printing costs. You've now
gotten more information than you can possibly need to make a decision. I
remember that you agonized over the purchase of the ip4000 and finally took
many people's advice and were very satisfied with your new printer.

First of all, I don't know the MP480 printer, but it appears to have a
tricolor cart and a black cart. The cart stock numbers appear to be for the
most recent generations of canon printers which have chips on the carts.
You will not find compatable carts for these printers for a very long time
as the chip on these carts is different from the previous generation of
chipped carts which have been duplicated for aftermarket prefilled carts.
The absolute least coverage is generally from these tricolor carts, in
addition to which when one color runs out you throw away what is left of the
remaining colors. The number of ml. of ink in a tricolor cart is the total
of the three colors, so you can see that there is really very little ink of
each color and you will be buying new carts much more often than if you have
separate color carts. Looking for the least expensive cart is ultimately
false economy if you have to replace them three or more times more often.

The ip4000 printer has a world of aftermarket prefilled carts.

And that World is in Outer Space since it is crap.

Unfortunately, purchasing the ones from a place like Staples isn't that much
of a savings over OEM carts, and buying them from a vendor online may get
you decent carts or not. The ones that I've heard are decent are G&G
cart

You never know what is decent until it is too late.


s. If no one on this newsgroup can tell you where to by them you can

check out Neil Slade's web site on inks and printers and see where he

Now that is a real cult.

buys them. My preference is to know the producer of the ink I put into

And that is impossible. None of the fly by nites will tell you what you
are buying and when they change their own suppliers to save a dime.

my printer and that is why I refill OEM canon carts with Image
Specialist inks from Precision Colors in Canada. The absolute least

He does not know what he uses because that company does not publish their
sources. Go on their website and see for your self. They will not even
say when they change suppliers.

cost you will have will be to purchase a new printhead for your ip4000
and refill carts for about $1 per cart. Otherwise you are going to buy
either OEM carts for a new printer or try to find aftermarket carts that
work well and have decent color balance for photos. There is also a

Trying is not doing it.

remote possibility that your printhead can be cleaned with additional
efforts. I already referred you to the nifty-stuff forum site where
there is more information on cleaning a printhead.

I feel badly that you keep circling around the issue and continue to
beat yourself up with all the research you are doing.

There is nothing else to do.

 

[TJ]

I am not asking about Canon IP4000. I am asking about an HP 4345 and that
was what my original post was about.
I want another printer and will probably keep the IP4000 for now at least.

AH-HA! I, for one, misunderstood the intent of your original post. Could
be others did as well. I thought you were looking to replace the IP4000,
not back it up. That makes a difference in the way one looks at things.

I have two working HP printers, a Deskjet 5650, and an Officejet 6110.
Both use the #56 and #57 carts. I picked up the 5650 at a church sale
for free as a backup for my then main printer, a PSC 2110 that was
showing signs of potential failure. I did have to buy a $15 power supply
for the 5650 before I could use it, but that was all. It made a nice
backup because it used the same cartridges as the PSC.

A few months later the PSC did fail. (The scanner bulb failed to
initialize. Come to think of it, that's the problem with using an AIO.
Scanner bulbs don't last forever, and if the bulb goes out or gets too
dim to initialize your printer is gone, too.) The 5650 was able to step
right in and take over all printing tasks, except those related to the
scanner. That was the reason I bought the Officejet 6110 - on eBay. I
had become used to being able to make copies at the touch of a button,
and my Visioneer scanner won't work with Linux. The 6110 scanner works
perfectly with Linux, and if I use the sheet feeder I can make
legal-size copies and scans, too. As I said before, I refill my own
carts, so the cost per page is nearly negligible.

So now the 5650 is my "main" printer, and the 6110 is my backup...
except that I use the 6110 now and again to make a copy or scan
something. One piece of advice, if you're going to use the HP as a
backup, ready to step in if the Canon fails... Based on my experience
with my HPs, you'll want to print a page with that printer at least once
a month to keep the printhead clear - more often if the humidity is low.
And it doesn't matter if you're using OEM or aftermarket ink. Both take
about the same amount of idle time to dry up.

TJ

 

[Burt]

"(snip)>
I am not asking about Canon IP4000. I am asking about an HP 4345 and that
was what my original post was about.
I want another printer and will probably keep the IP4000 for now at least.

(snip)

Mary - if you are keeping the ip4000 as a backup you will need to print
something in color fairly frequently or the printhead will get clogged. A
friend of mine has an ip5000 which he let sit too long while using another
printer he had purchased. The printhead became fatally clogged! I took a
printhead from one of my ip5000 printers and checked his printer and it
functioned perfectly. If he buys a new printhead for it for about $45 - $50
he will have an excellent functioning printer. If he lets it sit unused for
a long period of time he will have the same problem again.

TJ mentioned the same issue with an HP with the printhead integrated into
each cart. The good news there, however, is that if a cart/printhead
becomes clogged you just buy another cart. A low volume user with two
inkjet printers has to stay on top of this issue to keep both functioning
well.

 

[Mary]

least.
(snip)

Mary - if you are keeping the ip4000 as a backup you will need to print
something in color fairly frequently or the printhead will get clogged. A
friend of mine has an ip5000 which he let sit too long while using another
printer he had purchased. The printhead became fatally clogged! I took a
printhead from one of my ip5000 printers and checked his printer and it
functioned perfectly. If he buys a new printhead for it for about $45 - $50
he will have an excellent functioning printer. If he lets it sit unused for
a long period of time he will have the same problem again.

Burt - I think you are right about not letting the printer sit too long.
Doesn't Canon and Epson tend to do the same thing to their printhead if you
don't use them fairly frequently. When you say fairly frequently do you mean
once a week and print a few sheets of paper in color and black? And yes, I
will likely keep the IP4000 as a backup.

TJ mentioned the same issue with an HP with the printhead integrated into
each cart. The good news there, however, is that if a cart/printhead
becomes clogged you just buy another cart. A low volume user with two
inkjet printers has to stay on top of this issue to keep both functioning
well.

Thats what I had in mind but wasn't sure if it was a good idea but I think
it could work out OK. The IP4000 is a good printer, but the HP I am
considering, may be ok for what I want it to do. It has a photocopier which
would be handy, and a scanner and a fax, though I wouldn't use the fax or at
least very rarely. It just happened to have one. Its one of the more compact
printers as I don't have a lot of room. Thanks Burt.

Mary

 

[IntergalacticExpandingPanda]

You have already given me your opinion on this several times. I want another
printer as well. Is anything wrong with that?
Thanks for your comments and opinion. You have given me a lot of
information.

There is nothing wrong with wanting another printer. But another
printer isn't going to be as cheap to maintain as the ip4000.
Refilling yourself, buying bulk ink from Precision colors, works out
to be CDN $2.11 per big black, and $1.20 per color tank. Prefilled
cartridges start at double this.

Keep in mind that newer printers tend to have higher costs.

-----Now there is the Kodak Easyshare AIO printer-----

http://www.ca.buy.com/prod/COMBO_COLOR_INK_BLACK_INK_CARTRIDGE/q/loc/59205/211083147.html

You'll have to check out Canadian prices but if buy.ca is accurate you
can get a black for about CDN$9. The yield is about 400p putting it
on par with the ip4000 in terms of raw cost. The color cartridge is
around USD$15 but buy.ca claims you can get a par for $18.

Staples.ca says $10 for the black, $15 for the color, $23 for the
combo set.

Black 400p @ $10 =2.5c/page CDN

http://www.ca.buy.com/prod/Kodak_Ea...r_Inkjet_32_ppm_Mo/q/loc/59205/210479353.html

The 5300 is technically an older model, but the price is right at
$110. http://printers.kodak.com/

I know nothing about these printers. I thought about them, I even
went so far as to ask for samples from Kodak. They don't offer
samples.

I don't expect getting the color tank for much less than $15
aftermarket. Maybe $9.00, perhaps as low as $5. This is just a
guess. The color tank uses pigment ink which costs more than dye.

I've not used the printer, and there have been "some" complaints about
photos being over saturated.

For a Canadian, the price of ink is even MORE attractive since they
don't mark it up 20% higher. But I've not seen the printer in
action.

 

[measekite]

(snip)

Mary - if you are keeping the ip4000 as a backup you will need to print
something in color fairly frequently or the printhead will get clogged.

That is a total fabrication and untrue. When using the Canon recommended
ink you can let the printer sit for at least up to a month and then print
something in color without a problem of issue. I have done this many
times and I do not consider that frequently.

Now if you use crap no name pseudo ink and are dumb enough to risk your
printer and waste your money than maybe you need to take these extreme
measures.

Many people who can afford to use good Canon ink can afford to take a
vacation for a month and they do not ruin their printers.



A friend of mine has an ip5000 which he let sit too long while using

another printer he had purchased. The printhead became fatally clogged!
I took a printhead from one of my ip5000 printers and checked his
printer and it functioned perfectly. If he buys a new printhead for it
for about $45 - $50 he will have an excellent functioning printer. If
he lets it sit unused for a long period of time he will have the same
problem again.

More proof of what noname inferior ink can do.

TJ mentioned the same issue with an HP with the printhead integrated
into each cart. The good news there, however, is that if a
cart/printhead becomes clogged you just buy another cart. A low volume
user with two inkjet printers has to stay on top of this issue to keep
both functioning well.

TJ also uses inferior ink. I also have an hp and use hp ink and have let
it sit for over a month and have not problems.

 

[measekite]

Burt - I think you are right about not letting the printer sit too long.
Doesn't Canon and Epson tend to do the same thing to their printhead if you
don't use them fairly frequently. When you say fairly frequently do you mean
once a week and print a few sheets of paper in color and black? And yes, I
will likely keep the IP4000 as a backup.

I am not sure he really knows what he means since he does not use a real
Canon printer as designed by Canon.

A real Canon printer uses a Canon branded cartridge with Canon branded
ink. I use this all of the time and have not problem after the printer
sits for a week.

Some Epson printer models have an issue and other models like the R series
do not and again we are talking about real Epson printers with factory
ink.

Most of the time you get what you pay for.

 

[measekite]

AH-HA! I, for one, misunderstood the intent of your original post. Could

Me too. Over about 20 posts it seems one time it is vanilla and the next
time it is chocolate and the next time everything seems encrypted.

be others did as well. I thought you were looking to replace the IP4000,
not back it up. That makes a difference in the way one looks at
things.

Why would anybody want to back up a printer with one that has the same
functionality on anything that is not mission critical.