Attn: Bob Headrick

[Mary]

I just had a look at Ebay Canada, and all prices I'm about to quote are
Canadian and include shipping...

I searched for "Genuine hp 74xl" and found some black carts listed for
around $34, as well as some 74xl/75xl combo packs for around $50. I see
one 75xl for $28, but $30-32 is probably more common. These carts are
all listed as in the USA, but the shipping cost is to Canada.

From what I read, the xl carts have triple the page yield of the non-xl
carts.

As far as the Inktec kits are concerned, I don't see any on Ebay for
your printer. But look around. Aren't there some places here in the US
that will ship to Canada?

Yes there are some, but it has to be worth it, because we have very small
Customs exemptions compared to people in the U.S. anything over value of
$20.00 Can.$ is taxed at 13%, plus a $5.00 Canada post "handling fee". but
if its a lot cheaper prices than here, it can sometimes be worth it. I'll
check your information above and get back to you later.

I saw your HP 56 and 57 in Future shop online and they are a lot more money
than the HPC4345 I have. #56 and 57 combo of black and color one is $83.00
Can. ($74.50 US) and thats regular carts, not XL. Future shop sometimes have
good sale prices, but its rare to see sale prices on ink carts anywhere.

Mary

 

[IntergalacticExpandingPanda]

Printheads here in Canada are about $70.00 or maybe $80.00 by the time
shipping is included. Can. $ and are not commonly sold in any stores that
I've seen, but they can be bought from Canon website last time I looked.
Even if I got a new printhead, how can I be sure the printer will last to
make it worthwhile to buy a new printhead?

Odds? Seriously the head is like a lightbulb. It works on producing
heat which boils ink and comes out the nozzles. They burn out. It's
their job. Printheads burn out much faster than printers.

Your odds are mitigated by the fact that you can pickup second hand
canons which need a new head for dirt cheap. the i860 for example, or
the multifunctional mp750/760/780.

But most of all, it falls into the category of of holistic printing
cost. Buying a printhead will allow you to use cheap consumables.

-ip4000-
Presuming $15 per tank @ 500p/tank, add $1.60/tank Works out to about
3.2c per page. If you only get half the life out of the printhead
before the printer goes kauput, that bumps you up to 3.64c/page. 1/4
the life that's 3.96c/page. 1/8th it's life that's 5.5c/page. This
is presuming CDN dollars.

-HP #74 black-
Presuming $20 @ 200 page yield that's 10c/page. This is not a good
deal

-HP #74xl black-
Presuming $48 @ 750 page yield, that's 6.4c/page

Conclusion. Presuming these prices, if you only get 1/8th the
expected life of a canon printhead, the canon is still cheaper.

You mean if you buy the larger yield HP carts compared to the small regular
Canon carts which I think are 16ml.
I would have to look at prices of 74XL and 75XL next time I go to Staplesas
they are about the only store that has a lot of variety of brands of ink
carts. XL carts last longer but are expensive. Regular 74 and 75 are about
$50.00 for combo

Canon carts, for the ip4000, are 25ml and 13ml. However you can't
think in the same terms for HP since it uses about half the ink for a
given page.

The regular cartridges are not a good deal. The yield is

Black 200p @ $20 or 10c/page
Color 165p @ $30 or 18c/page
With loss of extra color.

The general rule on HP is for the XL cartridges, double the price for
triple the yield.

Canon is
black 500page @ $15 or 3c/page
color 280p/tank @ $45.99 or 16c/page
You do have to add the dye black, but that's negligible.

It doesn't blink when the cartridge is empty, but the status monitor shows
you when the ink is out.
Thanks for info. I am only exploring possibilities. I am not sure yet what I
am going to do.

Ok, you were not understanding. You refill a BCI6 with bulk ink, the
printer will see it as being full. If you do this on an HP, AFAIK
without a chip resetter the printer will not see the cartridge as
full. It's a guessing game. There is no meter, there is only an
estimate.

In terms of raw economics, presuming you print mostly black text, the
Canon is a better deal than this HP. It's an even better deal if you
go with aftermarket ink that cost less than staples, and even better
deal if you go bulk ink which is really where the savings is.

You can go bulk ink on your HP if you like. It's not "as" easy as
Canon but it is an option. Replacement "printheads" in the form of
regular cartridges are $50 CDN per set, vs Canon's $70-80. Odds are
high you'll have to replace them more often.

If you considered a non-budget HP model, the tale would be a little
different. But budget HP, Canon, and Epson printers cost an arm and a
leg for ink. There are exceptions, sometimes you can ride the wave
and get the regular model for budget price, but generally the budget
printers eat you alive with the cost of ink.

 

[Joel]

Just wondering, can HP cartridges be refilled? They don't have any
compatibles as far as I know. I would appreciate any comments you might
have.

Mary

You can always GOOGLE for the refillable cartridge for whatever model you
have. Then you will not only have the answer, but the PRICE too.

 

[IntergalacticExpandingPanda]

I don't know if they sell Inktec refill kits in Canada where I am.

First of all

http://enviroinks.com/product.php?productid=30964&cat=2210&page=1&gclid=CLjOzMb135oCFShRagodKjWFzQ

http://enviroinks.com/product.php?productid=30966&cat=0&page=1

I know nothing about this company, or even if they ship to Canada, but
the XL refill is more reasonable in price. The regular refill sucks
and should be ignored as a bad idea. There are people who sell
refilled cartridges.

Also, staples does carry bulk ink for the HP on their website. It's
the Jet Tec brand, not Ink tec. The Jet Tec is sort of a semi generic
which doesn't clearly state which cartridges it's formulated for. The
Canon Jet Tec kit makes it clear it's designed for the bci-6 series of
printers, which include the ip4000.

 

[Joel]

Recently I bought an HP Photosmart C4345 all-in-one printer which scans,
copies prints and faxes. It uses one tri color and one black cartridge
(numbers 74 and 75). I have been using a Canon IP4000 for the past 3 years
which is not printing as well as it used to but could be that it needs a new
printhead. The Canon takes 4 color and 2 black cartridges. I've always used
compatible ink cartridges. The IP400 is a good printer, but I saw the HP
C4345 at a very good price, and thought I would get a 4 in 1 printer, though
I don't need a scanner.

Because the C4345 used one tri color and one black cartridge, will it use
less ink in general than the Canon which uses 6 cartridges? Also will the
C4345 use more ink because of having a scanner,printer, copier and faxer (I
won't be using a fax much, nor a copier). Also, the C4345 has a higher
resolution than the Canon (I'm not sure just how much higher) but wouldn't
that mean the C4345 would use more ink? I haven't taken it out of the box
yet, but I hope the C4345 is a good printer. Do you know much about that
model? As far as I know, its fairly new (at least in Canada). HP have come
out with a lot of models in the last year which all seem very similar.

Just wondering, can HP cartridges be refilled? They don't have any
compatibles as far as I know. I would appreciate any comments you might
have.

Mary

I don't have time to browse theorught the long list, but just to give you
the idea about the CISS

The web page isn't as friendlier like many others.

http://www.himfr.com/d-p11422613822...hotosmart_3310/?pid=114226138226647025&page=2

 

[Barry Watzman]

Some problems with this post ....

First, the description of how printheads work applies only to thermal
printheads. Epson uses a totally different technology.

Second, the printheads do not burn out unless the ink supply runs dry.
The liquid ink acts as a coolant and if the printhead is not run dry, it
will not burn out. A bigger issue is that the aperture (the hole, the
nozzle) actually gets destroyed, eventually, by the ink being forced
through it. Also, of course, if the ink dries out it can clog the
printhead.

People bitch about HP having an "expiration date" on ink cartridges, but
they do that only for cartridges used in printers with separate ink
cartridges and printheads (e.g. they don't do it in cartridges with both
the ink and printhead in a single cartridge). And there is a reason for
it: Ink cartridges are not totally sealed (they are vented), and, over
time, the solvent in the ink will very slowly evaporate and the ink will
thicken. This leads to clogged printheads, and the purpose of having an
"expiration date" is to try and keep an old ink cartridge from clogging
printhead whose replacement is far more difficult and far more expensive
than replacing the ink tank.

 

[Barry Watzman]

Some can, some can't. Depends on the model.

 

[TJ]

Yes there are some, but it has to be worth it, because we have very small
Customs exemptions compared to people in the U.S. anything over value of
$20.00 Can.$ is taxed at 13%, plus a $5.00 Canada post "handling fee". but
if its a lot cheaper prices than here, it can sometimes be worth it. I'll
check your information above and get back to you later.

I saw your HP 56 and 57 in Future shop online and they are a lot more money
than the HPC4345 I have. #56 and 57 combo of black and color one is $83.00
Can. ($74.50 US) and thats regular carts, not XL. Future shop sometimes have
good sale prices, but its rare to see sale prices on ink carts anywhere.

Mary

The HP 56 and 57 are an older design, before HP brought out the "xl"
cartridges. I haven't looked at the specs for ink content, but they're
probably roughly equivalent to the xl carts. HP "regular" carts have
been getting smaller and smaller over the years.

Be aware that IEP is right about the ink level with HPs. It is a
software indicator that estimates ink usage, and if you refill carts it
must be reset to work. On my printers, a Deskjet 5650 and an Officejet
6110, the printer remembers the carts, but can only remember a limited
number of them (three). To get the ink level indicator back I install a
couple of old carts, let the printer recognize them, then put in the
refilled cart to a reset indicator. Newer models and print systems may
very well not work the same.

Please don't think I'm shoving in the direction of HP, even though it
may look that way. It's just that I have information about HP, and I
have none about Canon. From what I read in your responses to others, you
may just need to change your Canon ink supplier again.

TJ

 

[William R. Walsh]

Hi!

It "auto" prints as well. I'll look in the manual to see if there is a way to keep
them from automatically printing...auto printing would be optimal if it
supported duplex printing in fax mode).

It *ought* to. (I say this with some trepidation, because...well, why don't
you read http://greyghost.mooo.com/fax.htm for that story?)

I have a fax machine, and with it came a bundled fax spam problem. I've
never given my fax number to anyone other than a select group of people, so
I guess there is some "war dialing" going on with these scumbags.

I can definitely set that old OfficeJet 500 to receive faxes only to the PC.
Power outages are the only thing that makes it forget what I want to do. And
sometimes its RAM buffer gets full, if the PC is sleeping (which it rarely
is). This forces fax printing to occur.

What I'm not sure about is how you'd go about auto-printing them after
they've been received to the PC. I think HP's answer would be to change the
setting in the software, as opposed to providing a means for receiving to
the PC and then printing the faxes with an established set of parameters.

William

 

[IntergalacticExpandingPanda]

Be aware that IEP is right about the ink level with HPs. It is a
software indicator that estimates ink usage, and if you refill carts it
must be reset to work.

I've seen some software solutions that would help you to judge when to
refill cartridges.

It's just that I have information about HP, and I
have none about Canon. From what I read in your responses to others, you
may just need to change your Canon ink supplier again.

Or, accept that 3 years of use require a replacement head. If 3
refills of each tank were used per year, that's on par with the
estimated life of the printhead according to the service manual.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

I think the poster was discussing Canon heads which are thermal, and I
believe he is aware that Epson uses a piezo mechanical head.

The nozzles in thermal heads have a resistor which turns on and off to
heat the ink, and they can indeed burn out similarly to a light bulb,
which also uses a resistive filament. For the sake of simplicity, I
don't find the explanation he provided to be drastically flawed.


Art


If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

 

[TJ]

I've seen some software solutions that would help you to judge when to
refill cartridges.

No doubt. I never looked into it for myself because they're probably all
for Windows, and I use Linux. (One of the many reasons I have not
considered buying a Canon. HP Linux support is MUCH better.) I have also
seen something about a procedure with the cartridge contacts, taping
over one or two, installing the cart for the reset, then removing it
again and removing the tape. But I've also seen conflicting reports on
the effectiveness of that. And as I said, I'm dealing with older carts
that don't have chips. The newer carts may, or may not. I just don't know.

Or, accept that 3 years of use require a replacement head. If 3
refills of each tank were used per year, that's on par with the
estimated life of the printhead according to the service manual.

Well, anything you use requires maintenance if it's to last. However,
somewhere above she said that one color smeared no matter what she did
until she replaced that color cartridge. Knowing absolutely nothing
specific about Canon printers, that sounds to me like the cart is
probably at fault. However, I can also see where it could be possible
that a printhead on the verge of failing might work OK with a full cart
(Higher line pressure?) but start to fail as the cart empties. And she
IS using a used printhead with an unknown (to her) amount of pages under
its belt. If the cart that was working when new suddenly starts smearing
when it's not so full, then the cart is probably not the problem after
all. One cart failing in this fashion is, I would think, possible. But
if cart after cart does the same thing then it's probably something else.

But I can see her point of view, too. If she spends, what was it...$90
on a replacement printhead and it DOESN'T cure the problem, the $90 was
wasted. Depending on a person's circumstances in this economy, that's
not to be taken lightly. Unfortunately, unless she decides to refill, I
doubt she would be happy with the HP, strictly as a printer.

TJ

 

[Mary]

No doubt. I never looked into it for myself because they're probably all
for Windows, and I use Linux. (One of the many reasons I have not
considered buying a Canon. HP Linux support is MUCH better.) I have also
seen something about a procedure with the cartridge contacts, taping
over one or two, installing the cart for the reset, then removing it
again and removing the tape. But I've also seen conflicting reports on
the effectiveness of that. And as I said, I'm dealing with older carts
that don't have chips. The newer carts may, or may not. I just don't know.


Well, anything you use requires maintenance if it's to last. However,
somewhere above she said that one color smeared no matter what she did
until she replaced that color cartridge. Knowing absolutely nothing
specific about Canon printers, that sounds to me like the cart is
probably at fault.

That could be the case because it happened with more than one color. When I
contacted the online company who I bought the cartridges from (they are
compatible cartridges), they said they had some complaints not so much with
my problem of the cartridge drying up after a week or so, but they did not
think the cartridges were as good as the previous distributor. (They had
changed ink cartridge distributors) with my last batch. The batch before
that from the old distributor were OK. It wasn't just one color I had this
problem with, it was cyan, magenta and yellow. A new cartridge fixed the
problem and sometimes was ok for a while, sometimes not.

However, I can also see where it could be possible

that a printhead on the verge of failing might work OK with a full cart
(Higher line pressure?) but start to fail as the cart empties. And she
IS using a used printhead with an unknown (to her) amount of pages under
its belt.

I didn't go into how old the used printhead was, but the person who gave it
to me, said there should still be a lot of use in it. In my view, I don't
think its the printhead. I think its the cartridges, but the printhead could
need replacing fairly soon anyway.

If the cart that was working when new suddenly starts smearing

when it's not so full, then the cart is probably not the problem after
all. One cart failing in this fashion is, I would think, possible. But
if cart after cart does the same thing then it's probably something else.

But I can see her point of view, too. If she spends, what was it...$90
on a replacement printhead and it DOESN'T cure the problem, the $90 was
wasted.

That is part of my dilemma. In any case, while I decide, I am exploring
possibilities for another printer and thats why I am asking about the HP
C4345 printer I got. I haven't opened the box yet, so can take it back if I
decide to.

Depending on a person's circumstances in this economy, that's
not to be taken lightly. Unfortunately, unless she decides to refill, I
doubt she would be happy with the HP, strictly as a printer.

Why would I not be happy with the HP strictly as a printer? The one I got
has a copier which I would use, and a fax, which I wouldn't use much, but
handy to have, and the price is good and its probably OK. I may be able to
find compatible carts on a Canadian online site at a reasonable price. I am
looking to refilling. It would be a last restort, and only if I can't find
reasonable compatible cart prices, preferably in Canada where I don't have
to worry about Customs. I don't print a lot but sometimes like to print
photos, and thats when I use a lot of ink, but I don't do that very often.
I found out yesterday my daughter bought an HP C4400 all-in-one so is
similar to the one I got except no fax which I didn't care if mine had that
or not. She's been using it for a couple of weeks and thinks its ok. She
needs a new tri color already because she printed a lot of photos since she
got it, but they all use a lot of ink when printing photos, especially the
newer ones which mostly have higher resolutions..

Mary

 

[Mary]

"IntergalacticExpandingPanda" <[email protected]>
wrote in message

I don't know if they sell Inktec refill kits in Canada where I am.

First of all

http://enviroinks.com/product.php?productid=30964&cat=2210&page=1&gclid=CLjOzMb135oCFShRagodKjWFzQ

http://enviroinks.com/product.php?productid=30966&cat=0&page=1

I know nothing about this company, or even if they ship to Canada, but
the XL refill is more reasonable in price. The regular refill sucks
and should be ignored as a bad idea. There are people who sell
refilled cartridges.

The above site does not ship to Canada. But there must be Canadian companies
who do. There are several factors about buying products in the US which you
don't have to think about when you live in the U.S. But buying anything from
the US is only worth it to me if the product is cheap enough that its worth
having to pay Customs tax of 13% plus Post office fee, or if its under
$20.00 Can. where I pay no tax. Of course we need to pay 13% when buying in
Canada for most products, but most times I can buy products in stores here
so I don't often buy anything online, unless on Ebay if I see a DVD movie I
can't get here which is just once in a while..

Also, staples does carry bulk ink for the HP on their website. It's

the Jet Tec brand, not Ink tec. The Jet Tec is sort of a semi generic
which doesn't clearly state which cartridges it's formulated for. The
Canon Jet Tec kit makes it clear it's designed for the bci-6 series of
printers, which include the ip4000.

I had to dig a little to find that info, but its there. The refills for HP
printers doesn't specify which models the ink is for. Just says "for 750"
models and to see package. You would have to see the packages in STaples
stores if they happen to have them. I have 4 Staples stores near me but
never looked very closely are ink refill packages. I'll look next time I go
just to see. They are around $20.00-$25.00 Can.$ (which is fairly close to
US dollar right now).

Mary

 

[IntergalacticExpandingPanda]

problem and sometimes was ok for a while, sometimes not.

Ok, if that's the issue, replace your cartridges. It would be best if
you bought OEM cartridges for testing. Share your supplier and likely
don't buy from them again.

http://www.amazon.ca/Canon-BCI-6-Tr...1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1243624081&sr=8-1

http://www.piloshop.ca/pixma-series-pixma-ip4000-c-3008289_1045_104507_1006918.html

I've actually used G&G in my mp760, which is the all and one version
of your ip4000.

For bulk ink in Canada
Precisioncolors.com

For refilling cartridges
http://www.cartridgeworld.ca/

If the cart that was working when new suddenly starts smearing

That's most likely a cartridge issue.

That is part  of my dilemma. In any case, while I decide, I am exploring
possibilities for another printer and thats why I am asking about the HP
C4345 printer I got. I haven't opened the box yet, so can take it back ifI
decide to.

The alternative is to buy into a warranty program with Canon where
they will replace your printer. This warranty program will cost more
than a replacement printer, however given the very low cost of
supplies, given your canon takes cartridges without chips, it's worth
a premium to keep in service since your printing cost will be LOWER by
a long shot.

Another solution is to take your printer in for service, get an
estimate of evaluating a known good printhead in your printer.

Why would I not be happy with the HP strictly as a printer?

Cost of supplies higher with a printer that isn't technically that
much better than the ip4000. Lack of aftermarket refilled cartridges
in your neighborhood.

If you go with bulk ink refills on that HP, well, that's another
story.

It may be possible you can find refilled HP supplies for $2.50~$5.00
black and $10~$20 color.


Presuming 10 black cartridges @ $20, that's $200
Presuming $5.00, that's a savings of $150

Presuming 3 tri color packs @ $45, that's 135
presuming $5 each, that's $75
That's a saving of $60

~$210

Keeping in mind that you can find cartridges for less than $5.00 each,
and you will continue printing beyond 10 cartridges @ 3 x 3 color
cartridges.

I didn't include the extra black since that doesn't get used as
often. I replace mine after about 4 cartridge changes of the color.

I found out yesterday my daughter bought an HP C4400 all-in-one so is
similar to the one I got except no fax which I didn't care if mine had that
or not. She's been using it for a couple of weeks and thinks its ok. She
needs a new tri color already because she printed a lot of photos since she
got it, but they all use a lot of ink when printing photos, especially the
newer ones which mostly have higher resolutions..

If she bought the regular cartridges, she spent too much money. The
rule of thumb is XL cartridges are about double the cost for triple
the yield.

 

[Mary]

"IntergalacticExpandingPanda" <[email protected]>
wrote in message

problem and sometimes was ok for a while, sometimes not.

Ok, if that's the issue, replace your cartridges. It would be best if
you bought OEM cartridges for testing. Share your supplier and likely
don't buy from them again.

But I am not positive its the cartridges. It may also be the printhead.
Sometimes the cartridge is ok, and sometimes doesn't last but still has
quite a lot of ink left. Also, I don't know how long the printhead will
last. Ive had it for a while and it was used when I got it, and I don't want
to buy another printhead. I won't be buying from them again. It was Abacus
which were recommended to me one time and the first two batches were ok last
year but as I said, they changed manufacturers.

http://www.amazon.ca/Canon-BCI-6-Tr...1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1243624081&sr=8-1

It is usually referred to as Value Pak in STaples. The above says tri color
which is usually one cartridge with 3 colors in it. Anyway, the one pack you
refer to above is the same price as sold in Staples stores near me and its
always been there. Besides the 3 color pak, I still have to buy two blacks,
one is the same size as the color carts and one is a fat black, and that is
about another $25.00 so $70.00 total plus 13% tax. I don't buy carts in
Staples any more. I used to buy Staples compatibles which were cheaper than
the name brand, but now they are not much cheaper. I don't buy all carts at
the same time.

http://www.piloshop.ca/pixma-series-pixma-ip4000-c-3008289_1045_104507_1006918.html

Doesn't say how much shipping is till you check out. It is maybe OK.

I've actually used G&G in my mp760, which is the all and one version
of your ip4000.

For bulk ink in Canada
Precisioncolors.com

For refilling cartridges
http://www.cartridgeworld.ca/

They have a few stores around town, but I've never used them.

If the cart that was working when new suddenly starts smearing

That's most likely a cartridge issue.

Could be.

That is part of my dilemma. In any case, while I decide, I am exploring
possibilities for another printer and thats why I am asking about the HP
C4345 printer I got. I haven't opened the box yet, so can take it back if I
decide to.

The alternative is to buy into a warranty program with Canon where
they will replace your printer. This warranty program will cost more
than a replacement printer, however given the very low cost of
supplies, given your canon takes cartridges without chips, it's worth
a premium to keep in service since your printing cost will be LOWER by
a long shot.

Another solution is to take your printer in for service, get an
estimate of evaluating a known good printhead in your printer.

Why would I not be happy with the HP strictly as a printer?

Cost of supplies higher with a printer that isn't technically that
much better than the ip4000. Lack of aftermarket refilled cartridges
in your neighborhood.

You gave me two or three online Canadian cartridge suppliers and I've seen a
couple who have reasonably priced compatibles.

If you go with bulk ink refills on that HP, well, that's another
story.

It may be possible you can find refilled HP supplies for $2.50~$5.00
black and $10~$20 color.


Presuming 10 black cartridges @ $20, that's $200
Presuming $5.00, that's a savings of $150

Presuming 3 tri color packs @ $45, that's 135
presuming $5 each, that's $75
That's a saving of $60

~$210

Keeping in mind that you can find cartridges for less than $5.00 each,
and you will continue printing beyond 10 cartridges @ 3 x 3 color
cartridges.

I didn't include the extra black since that doesn't get used as
often. I replace mine after about 4 cartridge changes of the color.

I found out yesterday my daughter bought an HP C4400 all-in-one so is
similar to the one I got except no fax which I didn't care if mine had that
or not. She's been using it for a couple of weeks and thinks its ok. She
needs a new tri color already because she printed a lot of photos since she
got it, but they all use a lot of ink when printing photos, especially the
newer ones which mostly have higher resolutions..

If she bought the regular cartridges, she spent too much money. The
rule of thumb is XL cartridges are about double the cost for triple
the yield.

Thanks for all your information. You bring up some good information But I
will have to make up my own mind and choose for myself what I want to do and
you have given me enough information to think about.

Mary

 

[Mary]

"IntergalacticExpandingPanda" <[email protected]>
wrote in message

Recently I bought an HP Photosmart C4345 all-in-one printer which scans,
copies prints and faxes. It uses one tri color and one black cartridge
(numbers 74 and 75). I have been using a Canon IP4000 for the past 3 years
which is not printing as well as it used to but could be that it needs a new
printhead.

We've covered this before. You're printhead is kauput, why not buy a
new printhead? The cost of ink is rather trivial in contrast to the
cost of the printer or print head. While this is an older model canon
still has printers that are comparable to it but the new printers take
cartridges with chips.

The printhead life is limited to about 10 cartridge changes according
to the numbers in the manual, reality is 15-20 or more. Given similar
use, that printer is going to cost an extra $80 CAD or so every 3
years, or think about $1.60 CAD hidden charge per cartridge change.

Because the C4345 used one tri color and one black cartridge, will it use
less ink in general than the Canon which uses 6 cartridges?

http://h10060.www1.hp.com/pageyield/us/en/PSC4340/index.html

Your canon you can expect about 500p (25ml)big black, and about 280
(13ml) pages color.

The Canon IP4000 which I have has 3 colors and 1 black - all are 15ml. Also
there is fat black (3Ebk) which has 30 mil.
Looks like your above paragraph is calculating a tri color and a black cart,
which must be a different model.

HP claims 750pages black, 510p color for their 74xl and 75xl

cartridges. Presuming OEM the black is 4.6c/page vs your canon at
2.5c/page. I'm not sure on prices up north, but if you buy OEM
cartridges, black costs more.

The actual amount of ink used is going to be less, as in the HP can

print more pages with 15ml of ink than the canon can with 25ml of
ink.

Panda,

How do you get that the HP can print more pages with 15 ml of ink?. It only
says on the HP cart that it prints a certain amount of pages. It doesn't say
how many ml's of ink is in the cart. AT least I couldn't see any ml's when I
looked at the box at the store. And the Canon I have uses 15 ml carts, not
25 ml. I don't think the cartridges my Canon uses has XL carts, so you have
to compare regular to regular carts.

I'm sure you could refill the #74/75, but AFAIK there is no meter that

tells you the cartridge is empty, so if you print without ink you're
likely to screwup your cartridge's print head. Not such a big deal
since you can buy #74/75 cheaply enough.

They are a lot more money here for cartridges than they are in the U.S. so
its a big deal to me. And XL is way too expensive unless I found a good
cartridge compatible.

The information you gave me below is not what I would likely be interested
in. I am only leaving it in for your reference if you want to see what you
said before. I was just curious about the things I asked above.

Mary

Ease of refilling, you can check out google cache's page from
inksupply.com

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cach...+refill+instructions&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

There is also the cartridge priming tool for the #74/75
http://www.inksupply.com/partnumber.cfm?action=search&search_part_number=MIS-PRIME2

It's hard to be accurate since I don't know this printer, but a rule
of thumb is these budget priced printers are going to be like spiffy
printers from 3 years ago. As such the ip4000 might be on par with
psc4300.

I'm not seeing a source for refilled #74/75 tanks.

But if you want to continue using Staples cartridges, buying a print
head is really the way to go. If you want to bulk fill your
cartridges, the ip4000 is easier and it'll blink at you when the
cartridge is empty.

I haven't decided what I am going to do yet.

 

[IntergalacticExpandingPanda]

Panda,

How do you get that the HP can print more pages with 15 ml of ink?. It only
says on the HP cart that it prints a certain amount of pages. It doesn't say
how many ml's of ink is in the cart. AT least I couldn't see any ml's when I
looked at the box at the store. And the Canon I have uses 15 ml carts, not
25 ml.  I don't think the cartridges my Canon uses has XL carts, so youhave
to compare regular to regular carts.

"Canon" cartridges for the ip4000 are 25ml for the big black, and
13ml. You "might" be buying 15ml cartridges but those are not Canon.

Canon prints at about 20pages/ml @ 5% coverage. This covers the 500p
big black @ 25ml and 280 dye 13ml

The HP 74XL according to sources is 18ml (3.5x more) and has an
estimated yield of 750p or 41.6p/ml.

The HP74 is 5ml (72% less) and has an estimated yield of 200p or 40p/
ml


Info on HP page yields is here

http://h10060.www1.hp.com/pageyield/us/en/PSC4340/index.html

Volume and other specs are here
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c00839662&lc=en&cc=us&dlc=en&product=3265897

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c00839826&cc=us&lc=en&dlc=en&product=3266275

I don't know about the HP bulk inks, but I can compare Epson to Canon
and say with reasonable certainty that the Epson's ink is much more
dense. Simply put, Canon uses more water.

Now this would mean if you can keep your HP printheads in service, the
HP would be cheaper to print since the cost of the bulk in is about
the same, though slightly cheaper where I buy it from. You'll have to
ask a Canadian dealer like Precision Colors.
http://precisioncolors.com.

 

[Mary]

"IntergalacticExpandingPanda" <[email protected]>
wrote in message

Panda,

How do you get that the HP can print more pages with 15 ml of ink?. It only
says on the HP cart that it prints a certain amount of pages. It doesn't say
how many ml's of ink is in the cart. AT least I couldn't see any ml's when I
looked at the box at the store. And the Canon I have uses 15 ml carts, not
25 ml. I don't think the cartridges my Canon uses has XL carts, so you have
to compare regular to regular carts.

"Canon" cartridges for the ip4000 are 25ml for the big black, and

13ml. You "might" be buying 15ml cartridges but those are not Canon.

Maybe they were the Staples cartridges. I used to buy Canon cartridges when
they were on sale, but haven't bought them for a while. I didn't think the
Canon ones were 13 ml but can't find a site which tells the ml's on the
front. Its like they don't want you to see it.

Canon prints at about 20pages/ml @ 5% coverage. This covers the 500p

big black @ 25ml and 280 dye 13ml

The HP 74XL according to sources is 18ml (3.5x more) and has an

estimated yield of 750p or 41.6p/ml.

The HP74 is 5ml (72% less) and has an estimated yield of 200p or 40p/

ml

I am not so interested in yields because I do not usually print a lot of
stuff, but sometimes I print photos and thats when I use a lot of ink. I am
much more interested in the price of cartridges than the yield. For me, I
want to try to find a printer which is fairly reasonably priced, though to
me ALL ink cartridges are expensive. I can't afford to lay out a lot of
money at one time which was what I told you before. I am interested in costs
to maintain a printer and that means cartridges.

Info on HP page yields is here
http://h10060.www1.hp.com/pageyield/us/en/PSC4340/index.html

Volume and other specs are here http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c00839662&lc=en&cc=us&dlc=en&product=3265897

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c00839826&cc=us&lc=en&dlc=en&product=3266275

I don't know about the HP bulk inks, but I can compare Epson to Canon

and say with reasonable certainty that the Epson's ink is much more
dense. Simply put, Canon uses more water.

Now this would mean if you can keep your HP printheads in service, the

HP would be cheaper to print since the cost of the bulk in is about
the same, though slightly cheaper where I buy it from. You'll have to
ask a Canadian dealer like Precision Colors.
http://precisioncolors.com.

I did a survey tonight and compared cartridge costs for Best Buy US and Best
Buy Canada, so you can see the big difference between US and Canada prices.
Because cartridges cost a lot less in the US, you are looking at other
differences such as yields, but I am looking at cartridges which I think is
more important unless you print a lot which I don't. Best Buy US and Best
Buy Canada are good examples because they are the same store, only yours is
Best Buy in US dollars and my Best buy is in Canadian dollars. The Canadian
dollar is not much less than the US dollar right now, because the US dollar
has weakened recently against other currencies so its a fair comparison. I
chose #74 and #75 regular and XL, but not much chance I would be buying XL
even if it is 3 times more.

Best Buy U.S. with Best Buy Canada prices in brackets.

HP C4345 and most of the HPC4000 series which use #74 and #75
#74 regular = $14.99 (30.99)
#75 regular =$19.99 (24.99)

#74XL =$34.99 ($53.99) - almost $20.00 more for same item in Canada
# 75XL=$40.99 ($61.99) = $21.00 more for same item.

Theres a lot more difference in price between the #74XL/#75XL and the
regular #74/75 ones.

Canon IP4000

Canon cartridges (Canon brand)
#BCI-6 -$13.49 ($18.99) - 5 carts X $13.49 =$ 67.48 US (5X18.99 = $94.95
Can.) - about $27.50 difference.
Of course I don't usually buy Canon OEM carts, but these examples are just
to keep the same comparison for US and Canada Best buy stores and I don't
buy a whole set of BCI-6 cartridges all at one time, but thats the only way
to compare.

Best buy cartridges are very overpriced and I wouldn't buy carts there.
There are cheaper stores to buy carts, but are not greatly less in price
than Best Buy. Cartridges are hardly ever on sale, but the price of printers
is much the same here (when they are on sale) as in the U.S. unless its a
new printer, where it takes time to go down in price.
Canon BCI- compatibles in STaples are quite good and a lot cheaper than Best
Buy - $13.50 per cart. - 4X13.50 = $54.00 plus the BCI-3BK for $26.56 for 2
X 29 ml's each.

I saw an ad today for the Canon MP 480 sometimes on sale here for $69.00.
Its a 3 in 1 and prices for the carts don't seem so expensive. I don't know
anything about this printer.

Canon OEM carts:
PG-211XL - $34.99 Can.$ -
CL211XL -$27.99 - $53.00

regular size $22.99 and 29.99 = $52.99

Of course a lot depends on how many ml's is in the carts. 16 ml's is going
to print more pages than 13 ml. But the MP 480 is cheaper carts.

 

[Burt]

"IntergalacticExpandingPanda" <[email protected]>
wrote in message


13ml. You "might" be buying 15ml cartridges but those are not Canon.

Maybe they were the Staples cartridges. I used to buy Canon cartridges
when
they were on sale, but haven't bought them for a while. I didn't think the
Canon ones were 13 ml but can't find a site which tells the ml's on the
front. Its like they don't want you to see it.

big black @ 25ml and 280 dye 13ml

estimated yield of 750p or 41.6p/ml.

ml

I am not so interested in yields because I do not usually print a lot of
stuff, but sometimes I print photos and thats when I use a lot of ink. I
am
much more interested in the price of cartridges than the yield. For me, I
want to try to find a printer which is fairly reasonably priced, though to
me ALL ink cartridges are expensive. I can't afford to lay out a lot of
money at one time which was what I told you before. I am interested in
costs
to maintain a printer and that means cartridges.

and say with reasonable certainty that the Epson's ink is much more
dense. Simply put, Canon uses more water.

HP would be cheaper to print since the cost of the bulk in is about
the same, though slightly cheaper where I buy it from. You'll have to
ask a Canadian dealer like Precision Colors.
http://precisioncolors.com.

I did a survey tonight and compared cartridge costs for Best Buy US and
Best
Buy Canada, so you can see the big difference between US and Canada
prices.
Because cartridges cost a lot less in the US, you are looking at other
differences such as yields, but I am looking at cartridges which I think
is
more important unless you print a lot which I don't. Best Buy US and Best
Buy Canada are good examples because they are the same store, only yours
is
Best Buy in US dollars and my Best buy is in Canadian dollars. The
Canadian
dollar is not much less than the US dollar right now, because the US
dollar
has weakened recently against other currencies so its a fair comparison. I
chose #74 and #75 regular and XL, but not much chance I would be buying XL
even if it is 3 times more.

Best Buy U.S. with Best Buy Canada prices in brackets.

HP C4345 and most of the HPC4000 series which use #74 and #75
#74 regular = $14.99 (30.99)
#75 regular =$19.99 (24.99)

#74XL =$34.99 ($53.99) - almost $20.00 more for same item in Canada
# 75XL=$40.99 ($61.99) = $21.00 more for same item.

Theres a lot more difference in price between the #74XL/#75XL and the
regular #74/75 ones.

Canon IP4000

Canon cartridges (Canon brand)
#BCI-6 -$13.49 ($18.99) - 5 carts X $13.49 =$ 67.48 US (5X18.99 = $94.95
Can.) - about $27.50 difference.
Of course I don't usually buy Canon OEM carts, but these examples are just
to keep the same comparison for US and Canada Best buy stores and I don't
buy a whole set of BCI-6 cartridges all at one time, but thats the only
way
to compare.

Best buy cartridges are very overpriced and I wouldn't buy carts there.
There are cheaper stores to buy carts, but are not greatly less in price
than Best Buy. Cartridges are hardly ever on sale, but the price of
printers
is much the same here (when they are on sale) as in the U.S. unless its a
new printer, where it takes time to go down in price.
Canon BCI- compatibles in STaples are quite good and a lot cheaper than
Best
Buy - $13.50 per cart. - 4X13.50 = $54.00 plus the BCI-3BK for $26.56 for
2
X 29 ml's each.

I saw an ad today for the Canon MP 480 sometimes on sale here for $69.00.
Its a 3 in 1 and prices for the carts don't seem so expensive. I don't
know
anything about this printer.

Canon OEM carts:
PG-211XL - $34.99 Can.$ -
CL211XL -$27.99 - $53.00

regular size $22.99 and 29.99 = $52.99

Of course a lot depends on how many ml's is in the carts. 16 ml's is going
to print more pages than 13 ml. But the MP 480 is cheaper carts.

Mary - you are investigating so many factors that you are losing sight of
the real issue. You want to minimize your printing costs. You've now
gotten more information than you can possibly need to make a decision. I
remember that you agonized over the purchase of the ip4000 and finally took
many people's advice and were very satisfied with your new printer.

First of all, I don't know the MP480 printer, but it appears to have a
tricolor cart and a black cart. The cart stock numbers appear to be for the
most recent generations of canon printers which have chips on the carts.
You will not find compatable carts for these printers for a very long time
as the chip on these carts is different from the previous generation of
chipped carts which have been duplicated for aftermarket prefilled carts.
The absolute least coverage is generally from these tricolor carts, in
addition to which when one color runs out you throw away what is left of the
remaining colors. The number of ml. of ink in a tricolor cart is the total
of the three colors, so you can see that there is really very little ink of
each color and you will be buying new carts much more often than if you have
separate color carts. Looking for the least expensive cart is ultimately
false economy if you have to replace them three or more times more often.

The ip4000 printer has a world of aftermarket prefilled carts.
Unfortunately, purchasing the ones from a place like Staples isn't that much
of a savings over OEM carts, and buying them from a vendor online may get
you decent carts or not. The ones that I've heard are decent are G&G carts.
If no one on this newsgroup can tell you where to by them you can check out
Neil Slade's web site on inks and printers and see where he buys them. My
preference is to know the producer of the ink I put into my printer and that
is why I refill OEM canon carts with Image Specialist inks from Precision
Colors in Canada. The absolute least cost you will have will be to purchase
a new printhead for your ip4000 and refill carts for about $1 per cart.
Otherwise you are going to buy either OEM carts for a new printer or try to
find aftermarket carts that work well and have decent color balance for
photos. There is also a remote possibility that your printhead can be
cleaned with additional efforts. I already referred you to the nifty-stuff
forum site where there is more information on cleaning a printhead.

I feel badly that you keep circling around the issue and continue to beat
yourself up with all the research you are doing.

By the way, I have read that certain of the HP printers do print more pages
per ml. than some other printers. It may have something to do with the
construction of the cart and recapture of ink that otherwise goes into the
waste ink pad in Epson and Canon printers. Don't hold me to that
explanation as my only experience with HP printers has been with several
monocolor black laser HP printers.