K
kony
Because we wouldn't want the truth interfering with your
ego?
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Because we wouldn't want the truth interfering with your
ego?
K
kony
Again, you ignore the point.
<yawn>
I ignore you misguided assumption that both units would have
to be available from the same source... because in fact they
DON'T have to be available from the same source.
All we need to get one at a lower price is a single place
selling it that we'd be willing to buy from.
When you build a system, is there ANY eStore that carries
ALL brands? If not, (and there isn't), can you really keep
a straight face and claim we can't compare prices? You're
out of your mind.
K
kony
And you wouldn't be mistaken or be untruthful, would you?
No, because I'm not a shill for PC P&C and haven't argued
illogically in favor of them as you have on SEVERAL
occasions.
Note I never suggested anyone should BUY the Seasonic
instead, rather they need assess their real system power
needs and then determine what is most appropriate which
might be neither of these makes/models.
On the other hand, the issue came up and you denied reality,
that one does cost more than the other the majority of the
time. Citing a single place you found one higher than
average is no evidence of the majority selling price.
U
UCLAN
kony said:I ignore you misguided assumption that both units would have
to be available from the same source... because in fact they
DON'T have to be available from the same source.
All we need to get one at a lower price is a single place
selling it that we'd be willing to buy from.
Sigh...we're talking price comparison, not purchase. Or do
you look at the retail price of a Panasonic VCR and the
discounted price of a Sony VCR, and conclude that the Panasonic
is over priced?
When you build a system, is there ANY eStore that carries
ALL brands? If not, (and there isn't), can you really keep
a straight face and claim we can't compare prices? You're
out of your mind.
Trying to decide which of TWO PSUs is overpriced is hardly the
same as trying to compare ALL brands. Your behavior is so similar
to a drowning man flailing his arms about in an attempt to save
himself. Ain't gonna work.
U
UCLAN
kony said:No, because I'm not a shill for PC P&C and haven't argued
illogically in favor of them as you have on SEVERAL
occasions.
If I were a "shill" I would have answered the OP's post with
a recommendation to buy the PCP&C PSU. I didn't. In fact, I
didn't enter the thread until "someone" claimed that all PCP&C
Silencers are made by Seasonic, the 14th post in this thread.
Nowhere in this thread have I recommended that a person buy a
PCP&C PSU. This makes me a shill?
On the other hand, the issue came up and you denied reality,
Denied reality? Are you attempting creative writing?
that one does cost more than the other the majority of the
time. Citing a single place you found one higher than
average is no evidence of the majority selling price.
And you have cited ONE place where the PCP&C supply sells
for more. Where it sells at RETAIL. Talk about "denying reality."
Speaking of "denying reality" you have also:
Posted URLs to three sites with PSU pictures:
1) Two PSUs hand labeled as "360" and "410."
2) A PSU only identified with "PC Modding Malaysia."
3) A PSU which you initially called a Silencer 470, had "S470"
in its URL, but you later tried to claim that it was a
Silencer 610.
You later claimed that this was proof that the Silencer 610 is
actually a rebadged Seasonic S12-600. Pathetic, really.
You're zero out of two.
K
kony
Sigh...we're talking price comparison, not purchase.
LOL.
So a price would be relative to WHAT, if not purchase?
The distinction you are trying to draw is only important in
your own mind, not in any practical way.
K
kony
If I were a "shill" I would have answered the OP's post with
a recommendation to buy the PCP&C PSU. I didn't. In fact, I
didn't enter the thread until "someone" claimed that all PCP&C
Silencers are made by Seasonic, the 14th post in this thread.
Nowhere in this thread have I recommended that a person buy a
PCP&C PSU. This makes me a shill.
Yes, because you still argue "pro-PCP&C" as if we need to
prove something to you that you didn't know already.
When you are in ignorance on a matter, the last reasonable
thing to do is insist someone needs prove something that you
have no evidence at all to counter, and you don't (have any
evidnece whatsoever that someone else made the Silencer
model in question).
U
UCLAN
kony said:LOL.
So a price would be relative to WHAT, if not purchase?
The distinction you are trying to draw is only important in
your own mind, not in any practical way.
Man, are you dense. YOU claimed that the PCP&C S610 was overpriced
when compared to the Seasonics S12-600. For evidence, you *compared*
the RETAIL price of the S610 (about $160 USD) to the DISCOUNTED
price of the S12-600 ($120??) *YOU* made a COMPARISON, not a PURCHASE.
I simply asked you to COMPARE apples to apples (retail price to retail
price) or oranges to oranges (discounted price to discounted price)
instead of your apples to oranges comparison.
Are you really too dumb to comprehend this, or are you just trolling?
[rhetorical question.]
U
UCLAN
kony said:Yes, because you still argue "pro-PCP&C" as if we need to
prove something to you that you didn't know already.
You just need to provide evidence when you offer your *opinion*
as fact. I have not argued "pro-PCP&C" or "anti-PCP&C." I have
argued - correctly so - that your evidence does *NOT* support
your argument. For example, your pictures of the "350" and "410"
labeled PSUs, along with the "PC Modding Malaysia" and "S470"
PSUs do not support your claim that the PCP&C S610 is just a
rebadged Seasonic S12-600. They don't even come close. But yet,
you insist these photos prove your point. Pathetic, really.
When you are in ignorance on a matter, the last reasonable
thing to do is insist someone needs prove something that you
have no evidence at all to counter, and you don't (have any
evidnece whatsoever that someone else made the Silencer
model in question).
I have no evidence that Sony didn't make it, or that Martians
didn't make it. That somehow validates *your* claim that Seasonics
made it, even though you lack any evidence of this? I see you failed
(or never took) Logic 101. Do *you* even believe this nonsense?
K
kony
Man, are you dense. YOU claimed that the PCP&C S610 was overpriced
when compared to the Seasonics S12-600.
Yes, because it is.
For evidence, you *compared*
the RETAIL price of the S610 (about $160 USD)
I compared the SELLING PRICE.
Go ahead and find us a PCP&C for less. I already linked at
least 3, and can link more examples of the Seasonic selling
for under $140. If you can't find examples of the PC P&C
unit selling for under $140 then you must truely be an idiot
to argue there isn't a price difference.
to the DISCOUNTED
price of the S12-600 ($120??)
Just about any product in the PC market has a so-called
"retail" price, but sells for a lower price. That lower
price is not a sale, or special, it can be found at many
vendors, at any point in time a simple search engine can
find the product at that price.
*YOU* made a COMPARISON, not a PURCHASE.
I simply asked you to COMPARE apples to apples (retail price to retail
price) or oranges to oranges (discounted price to discounted price)
instead of your apples to oranges comparison.
You asked for a contrived comparison because you don't like
that the facts disagree with you.
The MARKET PRICE is the valid price.
I can put up a watch on the internet and claim "Retail
price- $1599", on sale for $5. If I'm not the only one, but
rather, the vast majority of sellers are around this $5 mark
too, was the as expensive?
Apples to apples is the price at which it can be acquired.
"Retail" vs. "Actual" is only a marketing tactic.
Are you really too dumb to comprehend this, or are you just trolling?
[rhetorical question.]
I'm sorry reality is too difficult for you.
K
kony
They don't even come close.
So you can ignore anything then think making a vague
statement is sufficient without evidence, if YOU do it?
I've already gone the extra mile and linked several things.
You've just whined that you don't like (having no counter
argument, apparently).
So where's your evidence that they don't even come close?
You are so far behind the curve at this point that to be
seen as anything but an idiot shill you will have to
provide:
- Actual counters to the things I've already linked.
- Levels of evidence for your arguments that coincide to
the amount of evidence you claimed I needed for my argument.
You have nothing.
U
UCLAN
kony said:Yes, because it is.
Yes, if you compare its RETAIL price with the other's DISCOUNT
price.
I compared the SELLING PRICE.
Go ahead and find us a PCP&C for less.
I have already told you how to get one for less. Buy from a dealer
(or even become a dealer yourself.) PCP&C won't offer a lower than
retail price on their site because they don't undercut their dealer
base. They have a whole section on their web site dedicated to just
dealers and OEMs.
If you can't find examples of the PC P&C
unit selling for under $140 then you must truely be an idiot
to argue there isn't a price difference.
I can get one for less than $140 from a registered dealer.
Just about any product in the PC market has a so-called
"retail" price, but sells for a lower price. That lower
price is not a sale, or special, it can be found at many
vendors, at any point in time a simple search engine can
find the product at that price.
If that company chooses to distribute their product via online
vendors. Some don't, relying instead on a dealer base. PCP&C
believes dealers can better distribute their product. They
don't want online vendors undercutting their dealers - they
soon would have no dealer base.
You sound like a disgruntled EX-dealer.
You asked for a contrived comparison because you don't like
that the facts disagree with you.
No, I simply asked for an apples to apples OR an oranges to
oranges comparison. Your "facts" come from your apples to
oranges comparison.
The MARKET PRICE is the valid price.
And YOU have defined the market price as the RETAIL price?
I'm sorry reality is too difficult for you.
I have no problem with reality. It's just that your definition
of "reality" is somewhat humorous, and in this case, incorrect.
U
UCLAN
kony said:So you can ignore anything then think making a vague
statement is sufficient without evidence, if YOU do it?
I've already gone the extra mile and linked several things.
You've just whined that you don't like (having no counter
argument, apparently).
Yes. You've linked a lot of things. None of which, unfortunately,
have anything to due with the Silencer 610 or the Seasonics S12-600.
So where's your evidence that they don't even come close?
Well, my statement (which you cleverly snipped) was that THE PHOTOS
that you provided links to DON'T EVEN COME CLOSE to supporting your
claim that the PCP%C S610 is just a rebadged Seasonics S12-600. Funny
how you attempted to change the meaning of what I wrote. If you forgot:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
You just need to provide evidence when you offer your *opinion*
as fact. I have not argued "pro-PCP&C" or "anti-PCP&C." I have
argued - correctly so - that your evidence does *NOT* support
your argument. For example, your pictures of the "350" and "410"
labeled PSUs, along with the "PC Modding Malaysia" and "S470"
PSUs do not support your claim that the PCP&C S610 is just a
rebadged Seasonic S12-600. They don't even come close. But yet,
you insist these photos prove your point. Pathetic, really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Going to edit it again?
You are so far behind the curve at this point that to be
seen as anything but an idiot shill you will have to
provide:
- Actual counters to the things I've already linked.
Re-read the above.
Hey, these are as evidential as anything you've linked. Maybe more:
http://www.strangepersons.com/images/content/8531.jpg
http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/
- Levels of evidence for your arguments that coincide to
the amount of evidence you claimed I needed for my argument.
Hmmm...that's a real tongue twister. What does it mean? You have
provided NO evidence that the PCP&C S610 is just a rebadged Seasonics
S12-600, so I guess I don't need any. But, I want to again hear your
explanation for the different output currents, different chassis and
fan, different output harness. Those things point to the possibility
that they are indeed totally different supplies. Your evidence to the
contrary? NADA.
Do you have that sinking feeling that you are wrong?
K
kony
I can get one for less than $140 from a registered dealer.
Provide the links.
If everyone can't buy it for the same or lower price, it is
by definition, MORE EXPENSIVE.
K
kony
Yes. You've linked a lot of things. None of which, unfortunately,
have anything to due with the Silencer 610 or the Seasonics S12-600.
Well, my statement (which you cleverly snipped) was that THE PHOTOS
that you provided links to DON'T EVEN COME CLOSE to supporting your
claim that the PCP%C S610 is just a rebadged Seasonics S12-600.
I never claimed "rebadged". Reread it.
Funny
how you attempted to change the meaning of what I wrote.
Nope, you're just a horribly confused person who doesn't
even know what "more expensive" or "made by" means.
If you forgot:
Yes, you are trying to claim I need to prove something to
you. You can't even concede that the Seasonic costs less
which any gradeschool child can see, so obviously anything
more complex will only befuddle you.
I have not argued "pro-PCP&C" or "anti-PCP&C." I have
argued - correctly so - that your evidence does *NOT* support
your argument. For example, your pictures of the "350" and "410"
labeled PSUs, along with the "PC Modding Malaysia" and "S470"
PSUs do not support your claim that the PCP&C S610 is just a
rebadged Seasonic S12-600.
I never wrote "rebadged". You would do well to try real
real hard to focus on what I wrote instead of what you think
I did.
They don't even come close.
Yes, they do come very close. Minor variations in chassis
to fit a different fan more than anything.
But yet,
you insist these photos prove your point. Pathetic, really.
So what you're REALLY saying is, you have no evidence of
anything at all, and just feel like wasting everyone's time
because it doesn't even MATTER who made it, only what it
actually is, the final product.
I probably should have edited everything you wrote so it
read more like this:
"So you disagree, what do I care if you can't even provide
one single link".
Re-read the above.
You need to reread the entire thread.
Hey, these are as evidential as anything you've linked. Maybe more:
http://www.strangepersons.com/images/content/8531.jpg
So even when you're going to spend time on the thread, you
don't find evidence of any kind, you just act like a fool.
Thank you for that confirmation.
Hmmm...that's a real tongue twister. What does it mean?
So you only have a rudimentary grasp of english?
That would explain a lot.
You have
provided NO evidence that the PCP&C S610 is just a rebadged Seasonics
S12-600, so I guess I don't need any.
You're squirming now and we both know why.
You were making up nonsense and have no support at all for
what you wrote. I even offered to link more but you
couldn't even be bothered to provide EVEN ONE SINGLE LINK.
After all this typing you've done we have to assume you're
as dumb as a rock to continue whining as if it somehow
improves your position instead of providing ACTUAL LINKS.
Once you provide some, then I'll give you a few more.
You have to make the slightest bit of effort if you want to
be taken seriously.
But, I want to again hear your
explanation for the different output currents,
Already showed how their output current couldn't be correct.
different chassis and
fan, different output harness.
Do you have any idea how trivial it is to put a different
fan on? Did I ever write that they are exactly identical?
No.
Reread the above a few times because you seem a slow
thinker.
They are comparable PSU made by same company. While the PC
P&C unit initially appears to have higher 12V rating, that
directly conflicts with the other data on the spec sheet
such that it can't be sustained in use, is not an equivalent
rating system. Further, fan variations are fairly trival,
and don't change the inherant character of the PSU.
Those things point to the possibility
that they are indeed totally different supplies.
You don't know beans about PSU do you?
Do you have that sinking feeling that you are wrong?
Show us some links. Until then we only have your delusions
to counter.
U
UCLAN
kony said:Provide the links.
Your reading comprehension problem surfaces again. A DEALER. A human
being. Someone who buys and gets DEALER pricing. One needs a link to
be a dealer? I think not. How did things get sold before the WWW?
K
kony
Your reading comprehension problem surfaces again. A DEALER. A human
being. Someone who buys and gets DEALER pricing. One needs a link to
be a dealer? I think not. How did things get sold before the WWW?
Again you try to avoid the issue, which is what one costs to
buy. If you want to argue what a dealer can pay, likewise
it would have to be a dealer price for the Seasonic.
Apples/apples as you put it, was the online pricing
available for purchase.
I can see we will never agree on the issue so I'm done.
U
UCLAN
kony said:I never claimed "rebadged". Reread it.
OK. The photos that you provided links to HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE
S610 OR S12-600, PERIOD, thus, do not support your claim that the
S610 is even built by Seasonic.
Nope, you're just a horribly confused person who doesn't
even know what "more expensive" or "made by" means.
Still trying to convince yourself of those things? You've provided
no evidence here of either. That tells me YOU'RE either confused,
ignorant, or just trolling.
Yes, you are trying to claim I need to prove something to
you. You can't even concede that the Seasonic costs less
which any gradeschool child can see, so obviously anything
more complex will only befuddle you.
I have conceded that the RETAIL price of the S610 is more than
the DISCOUNTED price of the Seasonic. Comparing the price on an
apples to apples basis is a concept than seems to befuddle you.
Yes, they do come very close. Minor variations in chassis
to fit a different fan more than anything.
Ah, edited AGAIN what I actually wrote, that the *pictures* don't
even come close to supporting your claim. Once again:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
You just need to provide evidence when you offer your *opinion*
as fact. I have not argued "pro-PCP&C" or "anti-PCP&C." I have
argued - correctly so - that your evidence does *NOT* support
your argument. For example, your pictures of the "350" and "410"
labeled PSUs, along with the "PC Modding Malaysia" and "S470"
PSUs do not support your claim that the PCP&C S610 is just a
rebadged Seasonic S12-600. They don't even come close. But yet,
you insist these photos prove your point. Pathetic, really.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Go ahead. Edit it again. And you call the variations "minor."
And you forget to address the output current differences or
the harness differences. Just "minor variations in chassis."
Yeah, right.
So what you're REALLY saying is, you have no evidence of
anything at all, and just feel like wasting everyone's time
because it doesn't even MATTER who made it, only what it
actually is, the final product.
What I said is quite clear. You have no evidence to support your
claim. *I* didn't make a claim either way concerning the S610,
you did. It's up to *you* to give evidence to support your claim.
I probably should have edited everything you wrote so it
read more like this:
"So you disagree, what do I care if you can't even provide
one single link".
So it reads like *I* wrote that? Nah, you provided plenty of links.
Problem is that none of them tie the S610 to the S12-600 - even
remotely.
So even when you're going to spend time on the thread, you
don't find evidence of any kind, you just act like a fool.
You made the claim. You provide the evidence. Simple concept, really.
You're squirming now and we both know why.
You were making up nonsense and have no support at all for
what you wrote. I even offered to link more but you
couldn't even be bothered to provide EVEN ONE SINGLE LINK.
A link to what? *YOU* made the claim. *YOU* provide the evidence.
If you have any evidence that the S610 is actually a S12-600,
POST IT! But you don't. That's MY claim.
After all this typing you've done we have to assume you're
as dumb as a rock to continue whining as if it somehow
improves your position instead of providing ACTUAL LINKS.
We have to assume that *you* are just trying to shift the focus
away from your claim that the S610 is just a S12-600, because
you're just blowing hot air. I made no claim regarding the origin
of the S610, only that you had no evidence to back YOUR claim.
Watching you wiggle has been hilarious.
Once you provide some, then I'll give you a few more.
You have to make the slightest bit of effort if you want to
be taken seriously.
Provide some what? Links to my claim of the origin of the S610, a
claim that I haven't made? And you have *more*? More that are as
unrelated to the two PSUs in question as your pictures?
Already showed how their output current couldn't be correct.
Yeah, yeah. And I explained that UL disagreed, you argued illogically
for a while and dropped the subject. You can run, but you can't hide.
Do you have any idea how trivial it is to put a different
fan on? Did I ever write that they are exactly identical?
No.
Well, when one is a rear mounted 80mm fan, and one is a bottom
mounted 120mm fan, it's less trivial. Whole new chassis required.
Reread the above a few times because you seem a slow
thinker.
I suggest you do the same.
They are comparable PSU made by same company.
And you've provided *NO* evidence to support this claim.
While the PC
P&C unit initially appears to have higher 12V rating, that
directly conflicts with the other data on the spec sheet
such that it can't be sustained in use, is not an equivalent
rating system.
If UL says it is 49 amps continuous, I'll believe them. If it was
peak, they'd have to label it as peak.
You don't know beans about PSU do you?
Ah, your old standby. Took you a while to revert to it. Shows the
level of desperation you are now experiencing.
Poor Kony. Better stop making claims you can't support with
evidence.
K
kony
OK. The photos that you provided links to HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE
S610 OR S12-600, PERIOD, thus, do not support your claim that the
S610 is even built by Seasonic.
Go ahead and disagree but if you bothered to look for
yourself there IS more evidence out there. Hint- Google
I was willing to provide more links but you couldn't even
begin to give one, so it seems you had no interest in truth
at all.
I have no interest in further wasteful arguments on this
issue.
S
Sjouke Burry
UCLAN said:Your reading comprehension problem surfaces again. A DEALER. A human
being. Someone who buys and gets DEALER pricing. One needs a link to
be a dealer? I think not. How did things get sold before the WWW?
A link is also a name / adress /town /country/ phone
Why should it be a www link??