Any Motherboards with two UDMA 133 or SATA slots

[Rod Speed]

My swiss cheese memory has recalled something from the past....

Yeah, that's why I document quirks when they happen.

I recall that I had a similar problem a while ago when I installed an
existing secondary drive after doing a clean install a few years ago.
I ended up us PM and I selected the drive and the drive and itself
came back. I guess this is something I should do since I have
nothing to lose since you feel the drive is corrupted?

If its got corrupted due to the lack of 48 bit LBA support in XP because
you havent applied the service packs again, that wont fix that now.

Well, I wanted to upgrade for a while, never had a reason to it.

OK, that would obviously fix the problem. But you still have to make sure
that you do apply the service packs to XP to get 48 bit LBA support back.

If I can hold off on getting a new system until summer, that would
be great. Buying a new controller card is around $70+ CDN

Its a lot cheaper than that off ebay.

and there is no guarantee that I won't run into any more problems.
Sure.

I am really tired of uninstalling installing right now. I already
shelled out $50 for a PSU that is not quite strong enough for
a new system. I have to look at cutting my losses.

Certainly a new system now would be the safest route, tho the most expensive.

I may be able to get by on running the hard drive on
IDE2 for now or using my Abit at PIO4...I don't know.

Surely it must be able to do better than PIO4 ?

It should be able to do ATA33 and the associated DMA fine.

The Dual Core 2 processor, I heard came out in September
is quite new still so the price is still high...so I was told.

Hard to say for sure. Intel did price the low and mid versions pretty
aggressively, essentially hoping to blow AMD out of the water while
they could. It isnt clear what the price will do by say summer.

Certainly safer to wait if you can hobble along on the Abit for that time.

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

It says no hard drive found.

That happens when the driver is not loaded.

 

[DaveW]

Your video card will NOT support VISTA; too old and underpowered.

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

[...]

Position only matters when the drives are jumperd to cable-select.

Otherwise it is irrelevant.

Nope, it's not.

If one is CS, then the other should be too.

Babblebot, clueless as always.

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

"RussellS" wrote in message [...]

Position only matters when the drives are jumperd to cable-select.
Otherwise it is irrelevant. If one is CS, then the other should be too.

and check/replace the cable to rule out a defective cable.

Definitely. This seems to happen not too infrequently.

Arno

----------------------------------------------------------------
Regarding the IDE cables and jumper settings, be sure that you are using
UltraATA cables (80-wires as opposed to 40 wires, but still 40-pin plugs.)
These cables have an obvious sleeker, more refined look from the older ATA
cables.

Some third party IDE controller cards prefer that attached drives
are jumpered in the master/slave designations, as opposed to CS,

Nonsense. Either they support CS or they don't. There is no such preference.
All that is needed is that the CS line is grounded at the MB connector.

and are not used for optical drives being attached.

Whatever that's supposed to mean.

 

[Sam]

:
: That doesnt sound like an incompatibility between the Promise
: card and the motherboard, sounds like the XP install is managing
: to screw up the MBR changes it makes while installing.

Interesting....

: > I ran a 150 GB hard drive on my ABit without problem using the card.
:
: Are you actually installing a version of XP that has 48 bit LBA
support ?
:
: Thats one trap for the unwary, its easy to forget that that only came
: with SP1 and that that has to be reapplied with a clean reinstall.

Oh...no then. I dont have SP1. The XP I downloaded only has the
original SP0. But, the partition I am using is only 2GB and that should
not require 48 bit LBA support?
:
: I prefer to make a slipstreamed XP install CD instead
: so you have 48 bit LBA support right from the start.

I still dont get it though. I have XP Pro on my Abit computer and I did
not have to run SP1 to install and have it recognize the drive when
using the controller. The drives are over 120 GB each...but, are they
over 137.4? Hmmm....

I suppose I can download XP that has SP1. I would have to use my laptop
and risk getting a nasty virusm then I am really screwed. Using/setting
up the slipstream version sounds time consuming.

: You can format the drive early in the XP install, before you actually
start the install.
:
: I'd run a diagnostic on the drive with it attached to the Promise card
: to check if the drive is working fine on the Promise card and if it
isnt,
: according to the diagnostic, fix that problem before going any
further.

I dont recall seeing this option anywhere...I do recall deleting a
partion but that may have been when I was loading XP from my IDE2. My
head is spinning right now trying to remember everything.
:
: If the diag says that the drive is fine WHEN ON THE PROMISE CARD,
: I'd check that you are using the correct driver with the F6 op. And
make
: sure you have 48 bit LBA support in XP either by applying SP2
immediately
: after you have XP installed, before you install any apps, or by
slipstreaming
: SP2 to the XP install CD before installing XP.

Assuming that I can get that far. I think I should change my name to
Murphy ;-)
:
: Corse going for a new system would certainly be one way to fix the
problem too.

Yes, but it is costly....and now the prices are very high for the Core
Dual 2 and I dont think i need the multi-tasking of a dual 2 core. I
just need a very fast CPU, stable and cool (not trendy, MB that can
handle my existing hard drives,CD rom, DVD burner, and new SATA drivers.

 

[Sam]

: > If I can hold off on getting a new system until summer, that would
: > be great. Buying a new controller card is around $70+ CDN
:
: Its a lot cheaper than that off ebay.

Not by much. Shipping and handling is where most make their killing.
There is also the lack of warranty or the hassle of mailing it back (I
am in Canada). I got burned a few times with defective goods. I had
them fixed but the shipping et al was not worth the hassle.

: > I may be able to get by on running the hard drive on
: > IDE2 for now or using my Abit at PIO4...I don't know.
:
: Surely it must be able to do better than PIO4 ?

It DID, it was previously UDMA 5. Last week, when I went to check the
cable on the bad machine, I decided to turn on my Abit and it did chkdsk
for some unknown reason. It shut down fine previously a few days
earlier. Some errors were found and since then it's been stuck on PIO4.
I deleted, reinstalled all drivers from XP and it still couldnt, wouldnt
revert back to UDMA5. So, that makes me think the card may be bad.
:
: It should be able to do ATA33 and the associated DMA fine.

Yeah, it can. I know that for sure.
:
: > The Dual Core 2 processor, I heard came out in September
: > is quite new still so the price is still high...so I was told.
:
: Hard to say for sure. Intel did price the low and mid versions pretty
: aggressively, essentially hoping to blow AMD out of the water while
: they could. It isnt clear what the price will do by say summer.
:
: Certainly safer to wait if you can hobble along on the Abit for that
time.

Yeah, I think so. For speed I'll use the Laptop..but that's a joke.
The drive is only 4200 rpms but the CPU is 2.8. ghz. I guess I could
upgrade to a 5400 or 7200 rpm but that probably run very hot inside.

 

[Sam]

: Your video card will NOT support VISTA; too old and underpowered.

Any more good news anyone ? ;-)

 

[Rod Speed]

Interesting....

Have you got the antivirus in the bios turned on ? That
can stop the XP install modifying the MBR and it might
be getting messy with a drive on the Promise card.

Oh...no then. I dont have SP1. The XP I downloaded only
has the original SP0. But, the partition I am using is only
2GB and that should not require 48 bit LBA support?

Depends on where that 2G partition is on the physical drive. That
wrap around effect applys to the physical drive, not the partition.

I still dont get it though. I have XP Pro on my Abit computer
and I did not have to run SP1 to install and have it recognize
the drive when using the controller. The drives are over
120 GB each...but, are they over 137.4? Hmmm....

You previously said that the physical drives are 200G and 250G.
Its the physical drive that matters, not the partitions.

I suppose I can download XP that has SP1.

You can just download SP1 and slipstream it, its very easy using autostreamer.

I would have to use my laptop and risk getting a nasty virusm then I am really
screwed. Using/setting up the slipstream version sounds time consuming.

Nar, its very easy using autostreamer.

I dont recall seeing this option anywhere...

Yeah, its not an option, you need to download the diag
for the hard drive from the hard drive manufacturer's web
site or run it online with some hard drive manufacturers.

I do recall deleting a partion but that may have been when I was loading XP
from my IDE2. My head is spinning right now trying to remember everything.

Yeah, its easy to lose track of what you have tried.

Assuming that I can get that far. I think I should change my name to Murphy ;-)

I've already done that for you |-)

Yes, but it is costly....

Yeah, and you need to do some research on what to buy etc.

and now the prices are very high for the Core Dual 2
and I dont think i need the multi-tasking of a dual 2 core.

Its currently the best value cpu to buy for a new system even if you dont.

I just need a very fast CPU, stable and cool

Thats what the Core 2 Duo is, much cooler than the older Prescotts.

(not trendy, MB that can handle my existing hard
drives, CD rom, DVD burner, and new SATA drivers.

Yeah, you'll find that plenty only have a single ATA/IDE
port now and thats not going to be enough for you.

It'd be hilarious if you find you still need to use the Promise
card and you get the same problems trying to use it |-)

You would certainly be able to install XP on a drive on the motherboard
tho and just use the Promise card for the extra ATA/IDE drives.

 

[Rod Speed]

Not by much. Shipping and handling is where most make their killing.

There's plenty of those cards for a lot less than that total price off ebay.

There is also the lack of warranty or the hassle of mailing it back
(I am in Canada). I got burned a few times with defective goods.
I had them fixed but the shipping et al was not worth the hassle.

I've had not problem with hordes of stuff.

It DID, it was previously UDMA 5. Last week, when I went to
check the cable on the bad machine, I decided to turn on my
Abit and it did chkdsk for some unknown reason. It shut down
fine previously a few days earlier. Some errors were found
and since then it's been stuck on PIO4. I deleted, reinstalled all
drivers from XP and it still couldnt, wouldnt revert back to UDMA5.

Thats what XP does with a bad cable, turns DMA off for the safety of your data.

You have to manually delete the controller in the Device Manager
and let XP install it again to get the DMA back again.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/817472/

So, that makes me think the card may be bad.

Nar, its a different problem, just a bad cable.

Yeah, it can. I know that for sure.

And you're sure to be able to get UDMA5 back with a good cable.

Yeah, I think so. For speed I'll use the Laptop..but that's a joke.
The drive is only 4200 rpms but the CPU is 2.8. ghz. I guess I could
upgrade to a 5400 or 7200 rpm but that probably run very hot inside.

And it still wont be that fast.

 

[Rod Speed]

Any more good news anyone ? ;-)

Yes, all the hardware you currently have will go bang and burn the house down |-(

 

[Geoff]

Ohhhhhhh, is there anything you do not know, great and wonderful rod? We
wait to read your every word, you so great . . .

-g

 

[Sam]

:
: I've had not problem with hordes of stuff.

Remember....this is MURPHY, you are writing too ;-)
People use to call me Al (Bundy) at one time....

: > It DID, it was previously UDMA 5. Last week, when I went to
: > check the cable on the bad machine, I decided to turn on my
: > Abit and it did chkdsk for some unknown reason. It shut down
: > fine previously a few days earlier. Some errors were found
: > and since then it's been stuck on PIO4. I deleted, reinstalled all
: > drivers from XP and it still couldnt, wouldnt revert back to UDMA5.
:
: Thats what XP does with a bad cable, turns DMA off for the safety of
your data.
:
: You have to manually delete the controller in the Device Manager
: and let XP install it again to get the DMA back again.
: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/817472/

Done that, it didnt work. I even removed the controller completely from
the mb after deleting in device manager and then restarted the system
via IDE ports. It's locked on PIO4.

: >> It should be able to do ATA33 and the associated DMA fine.
:
: > Yeah, it can. I know that for sure.
:
: And you're sure to be able to get UDMA5 back with a good cable.

Ok, I'll try again in a few days

: >> Certainly safer to wait if you can hobble along on the Abit for
that time.
:
: > Yeah, I think so. For speed I'll use the Laptop..but that's a joke.
: > The drive is only 4200 rpms but the CPU is 2.8. ghz. I guess I
could
: > upgrade to a 5400 or 7200 rpm but that probably run very hot
inside.
:
: And it still wont be that fast.

Really? Even with a 7200 rpm?

 

[Sam]

:
: >> Your video card will NOT support VISTA; too old and underpowered.
:
: > Any more good news anyone ? ;-)
:
: Yes, all the hardware you currently have will go bang and burn the
house down |-(

Now that is the best news I heard in a long time....think of all the
insurance money I'll get. Ahhhhh.....if only.....

 

[Sam]

: Have you got the antivirus in the bios turned on ? That
: can stop the XP install modifying the MBR and it might
: be getting messy with a drive on the Promise card.

Yes, but that's the same as with my Abit, Award Bios but of course the
two are different. The ECS uses a Phoenix. I guess in the coming
weeks, (I need a vacation from all this) I can experiment and the
Anti-virus in the the bios.

:
: > I still dont get it though. I have XP Pro on my Abit computer
: > and I did not have to run SP1 to install and have it recognize
: > the drive when using the controller. The drives are over
: > 120 GB each...but, are they over 137.4? Hmmm....
:
: You previously said that the physical drives are 200G and 250G.
: Its the physical drive that matters, not the partitions.

Rrright, but I have done a reformat and reinstall early last year using
the same partitions and never had a problem with XP SP0 and any LBA
limitations, so I dont believe that is it.
:
: > I suppose I can download XP that has SP1.
:
: You can just download SP1 and slipstream it, its very easy using
autostreamer.

And autostreamer will convert an ISO to a readible CD along with the SP?

: >> I'd run a diagnostic on the drive with it attached to the Promise
card to
: >>> check if the drive is working fine on the Promise card and if it
isnt,
: >>> according to the diagnostic, fix that problem before going any
further.
:
: > I dont recall seeing this option anywhere...
:
: Yeah, its not an option, you need to download the diag
: for the hard drive from the hard drive manufacturer's web
: site or run it online with some hard drive manufacturers.

Done that...the Powermax floppy didnt recognize my controller or the
drive while my maxtor was attached to it.
:
: >> If the diag says that the drive is fine WHEN ON THE PROMISE CARD,
: >> I'd check that you are using the correct driver with the F6 op. And
: >> make sure you have 48 bit LBA support in XP either by applying SP2
: >> immediately after you have XP installed, before you install any
apps,
: >> or by slipstreaming SP2 to the XP install CD before installing XP.

....the Powermax floppy didnt recognize my controller or the drive.

: > Assuming that I can get that far. I think I should change my name to
Murphy ;-)
: I've already done that for you |-)

But did u rename my middle name to Sullivan?
:
: >> Corse going for a new system would certainly be one way to fix the
problem too.
:
: > Yes, but it is costly....
:
: Yeah, and you need to do some research on what to buy etc.

Yes, more time and energy spent
:
: > and now the prices are very high for the Core Dual 2
: > and I dont think i need the multi-tasking of a dual 2 core.
:
: Its currently the best value cpu to buy for a new system even if you
dont.

I dont like that a 2.2 CPU costing as much as P4 3.4 w/hyperthreading.
I'll really notice the diffence in speed when doing video rendering.
:
: Yeah, you'll find that plenty only have a single ATA/IDE
: port now and thats not going to be enough for you.

A few have two. Maybe I should look at Gigabyte. I read where others
have regretted getting the Asus P5W DH Deluxe (Intel 975x
chipset).
:
: It'd be hilarious if you find you still need to use the Promise
: card and you get the same problems trying to use it |-)

Dont laugh....it may happen. ;-)

 

[Sam]

I just got an email back from ECS and they said that the Promise may not
be compatible with the board. They also wrote to try to get the IDE1
repaired. Is that possible? I thought you can't do that sort of thing
with a PC board? Is it expensive to do so?

 

[Rod Speed]

Yes, but that's the same as with my Abit, Award Bios but
of course the two are different. The ECS uses a Phoenix.

Did you actually install XP on a drive on the Promise in the Abit ?

I guess in the coming weeks, (I need a vacation from all this)
I can experiment and the Anti-virus in the the bios.

Yeah, certainly worth trying because that would explain
the symptom you are getting with the drive going missing.

Rrright, but I have done a reformat and reinstall early last year using the same
partitions and never had a problem with XP SP0 and any LBA limitations,

The lack of 48bit LBA support produces a rather subtle effect.
It works fine until you write over the 137G point on the drive and
THEN it wraps around to the front of the drive and stomps on what
you have on the front of the drive, with no error messages etc.

You only see the problem when you need to use
one of the files that got stomped on that way.

so I dont believe that is it.

Bet it is, that certainly produces the missing files you see,
and the partitions that XP decides are unformatted.

And autostreamer will convert an ISO to a readible CD along with the SP?

Yes, it effectively installs the SP onto the install CD and
produces a new CD that has the SP installed on the CD.

Done that...the Powermax floppy didnt recognize my
controller or the drive while my maxtor was attached to it.

Try one of the other decent diags like Hitachi's Drive Fitness Test
or Seagate's. Some do a better job of finding the drive on a card
instead of on the motherboard ports.

...the Powermax floppy didnt recognize my controller or the drive.

See above.

But did u rename my middle name to Sullivan?

Nope, that's your problem. There is no such thing as a free new name.

Yes, more time and energy spent

I dont like that a 2.2 CPU costing as much as P4 3.4 w/hyperthreading.
I'll really notice the diffence in speed when doing video rendering.

No you wont.

A few have two.
Yep.

Maybe I should look at Gigabyte. I read where others have
regretted getting the Asus P5W DH Deluxe (Intel 975x chipset).

I dont like Gigabytes much myself, the ship too early and you
end up with lots of revisions of the motherboard and bios.

Dont laugh....it may happen. ;-)

I've got a sufficiently warped sense of humor that I might even piss myself laughing |-)

I did when the Roman Catholic Church spent weeks deciding on a new Pope,
all that silly stuff about black and white smoke etc, and then once they had
finally decided on one silly senile old fart, the bugger went and died on them
within days, and they had to thru the entire rigmarole all over again. Fortunately
the catholic who told me about it at work one evening could see the joke too |-)

 

[Rod Speed]

Remember....this is MURPHY, you are writing too ;-)

OK Murph, begorrah and all that.

People use to call me Al (Bundy) at one time....

A Jap would at least have the decency to disembowel
itself, dont make a mess of the carpet |-)

Done that, it didnt work.

Then its still using the bad cable.

I even removed the controller completely from the mb
after deleting in device manager and then restarted the
system via IDE ports. It's locked on PIO4.

Then its still using the bad cable.

Ok, I'll try again in a few days

Really? Even with a 7200 rpm?

Yeah, laptop drives dont have enough sectors per track to
give anything like the performance of a 3.5" 7200 rpm drive.

 

[Rod Speed]

I just got an email back from ECS and they said that
the Promise may not be compatible with the board.

No evidence of that yet.

They also wrote to try to get the IDE1 repaired. Is that possible?
Yes.

I thought you can't do that sort of thing with a PC board?

Its not trivial to do, but it is possible.

Is it expensive to do so?

The hard part is finding someone who is capable of doing it.

 

[Rod Speed]

Now that is the best news I heard in a long time....
think of all the insurance money I'll get. Ahhhhh.....if only.....

Yeah, thats what I thought when I headed out for a longish trip away.

My insurance is 'new for old forever' which basically means that
I get a complete set of brand new toys regardless of how old
they are if the house burns down or it gets looted by druggys etc.

I was a bit tempted to put a sign on the door saying that I would
be away for weeks, but decided that it would be just my luck that
one of the neighbours might tell the insurance company about the
the sign and they might well tell me that I could take a long run
off a short pier as far as my insurance claim was concerned.