Yet another reason to uninstall Java.

[John Corliss]

Profit is not greed.

The kind of profits that Microsoft is making are due to one thing
only, and that's greed. I think I'm not in a minority by believing that.

Profit is money.

No, profit is this:
_________________________________
"Noun:
1. The excess of revenues over outlays in a given period of time
(including depreciation and other non-cash expenses)
2. The advantageous quality of being beneficial

Verb:
1. Derive benefit from
2. Make a profit; gain money or materially"
_________________________________

Note that the definition here includes non-monitary gains.

They should not be confused.

I never confused them and I think you know that.

Greed is doing misdeeds to enrich oneself.

Are you for real? Can you honestly believe that at my tender young age
of 52 that I'm not aware of the definition of greed and that I'd
confuse it with profit? Bob, this can only be trolling on your part.
I'm not buying it.

Making a profit is necessary to
every business on Earth. Making profit legally is not a misdeed.

There is "legal" and then there is "ethical". *You* seem to be the one
confusing terminology at this point.

If certain MS executives, for example were to break a law to enrich
themselves, the guilty executives should be prosecuted. Otherwise, they
should be left alone to make software and feed thousands of families that
depend on their jobs.

BWAAA HAAA HAAA!!! Nice bait, but you should use stronger line. Is
this like your continued support of A.A. Fussy?

Another thing. MS can do no wrong. It's just an inanimate trademark. Gates
or that idiot Ballmer or their underlings can commit crimes (even without
Gate's knowledge), but not MS.

You are fully aware, I'm sure, that in America corporations can be
tried as an entity. There *is* such a thing as corporate law, you know.

You apparently have no confidence in the rest of us.

I neither do nor don't. I can't speak for you or anybody else. Notice
the way I placed an asterisk on either side of the capital "I". I'm
not sure why you're implying that I "have no confidence in anybody
else" since it's impossible to derive that from my statement. And on
that subject, neither can you speak for everybody else as you try to
do below:

When we feel our freedom of privacy is being broached, we will no doubt
react the same way as you.

See what I mean? Perhaps a better wording would be "When people feel
their freedom of privacy is being broached, they sometimes react the
same way as you" which isn't saying much, really, since I already know
that.

Most of us reject software every day because we
have the final word, and will in the future.

Well, we agree on that then. So what's your point? However, when
choice is removed and components like the "Smart Card" are always a
part of a system via hardware, say a chip on the motherboard or in the
hard drive for instance, or software on a portion of the disk that you
can't touch, then it'll be time to look for black market alternatives
or to quit computing altogether (not an impossibility for me at all).

EOD for me.

 

[John Corliss]

(snip)
Some links to keep you up at night, John:

http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.html
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=5160
http://aaxnet.com/editor/edit029.html#mspath

Egad! I don't really need anything more to keep me awake at night.
Have you noticed the time on some of my posts?

From the first link (which I've read before), I immediately noticed
the following:

"The TCG project is known by a number of names. `Trusted computing'
was the original one, and is still used by IBM, while Microsoft calls
it `trustworthy computing' and the Free Software Foundation calls it
`treacherous computing'. Hereafter I'll just call it TC, which you can
pronounce according to taste. Other names you may see include TCPA
(TCG's name before it incorporated), Palladium (the old Microsoft name
for the version due to ship in 2004) and NGSCB (the new Microsoft
name). Intel has just started calling it `safer computing'. Many
observers believe that this confusion is deliberate - the promoters
want to deflect attention from what TC actually does."

Not really scary stuff though. Microsoft is simply cutting their own
throats. From the fourth link and regarding the ongoing tightening by
Microsoft of driver, software and hardware certification requirements:

"The danger to Microsoft is that their heavy hand may spawn an
alternative hardware industry, just as it spawned an alternative
software industry. Large hardware companies are completely under
Microsoft's control through dependency on Windows for volume, but new
or smaller hardware companies, blocked economically from the Windows
market, may chose to support alternativs.

This is most likely to happen in the relative safety of overseas
locations, especially as overseas governments adopt Linux and open
source. Here again, Microsoft's monopolies threaten to limit U.S.
jobs, opportunities and American technology leadership."

 

[dszady]

I want to live with the American people in your head, because there's no
one like that around here. The Nanny State is alive and well, thanks to the
real American people. Out freedoms have been encroached on for the last 90
years and, thanks to the real (gutless) American people, continue to be.

?

 

[John Corliss]

Hi!

donutbandit wrote:




People are writing drivers. However, manufacturers have to open their
specifications and fund those programmers.

Unfortunately, it's been said that Microsoft forces them not to do
this via various means, and then forces them to sign a non disclosure
agreement regarding such coercion.

Writing a driver is very expensive and you need first hand knowledge
of the hardware you are writing for. Unfortunately most hardware
companies neither develop Linux drivers of their own or lay open
their specs. So, Linux programmers have to rely on dirty hacks.

What's going to happen is that more and more hardware manufacturers
will appear outside of the U.S., and such hardware will become more
and more popular simply because they don't have drivers for Microsoft,
but do for Linux. Hey, two could play at that game.

 

[John Corliss]

To jimpgh2002, I say "do what you like". I'm simply stating my reasons
for ditching Java for the time being.

LOL. Yes, John has me so frightened I'm giving up computers. I'm going back
to scratching in mud using sticks.
Anyone know of any freeware for a clay tablet?

My plan is to use tree bark and runes. 80)>

 

[Bob Adkins]

real American people. Out freedoms have been encroached on for the last 90
years and, thanks to the real (gutless) American people, continue to be.

You'll just have to give me 10 examples of our freedoms being encroached
upon.

I'm not gutless. If I were gutless, I couldn't face my mother-in-law, could
I?

Bob

Remove "kins" from address to reply.

 

[Ben Cooper]

My plan is to use tree bark and runes. 80)>

Luddite!

 

[Bob Adkins]

LOL. Yes, John has me so frightened I'm giving up computers. I'm going back
to scratching in mud using sticks.
Anyone know of any freeware for a clay tablet?

Meet me on alt.comp.cuneiform and I'll give lessons.

Bob

Remove "kins" from address to reply.

 

[donutbandit]

I have yet to see a PC (PC, not printer, modem, or other
external device) that does not run Linux. External devices are a
different matter, but you need to blame the customers and
manufacturers for that. One because they buy the cheapest and not
best hardware (chosing a Winmodem or GDI printer when real modems and
printers are available is pure greed/dumbness) the other because of
missing specs.

How many people are aware of what's inside when they buy a computer? How
many people even know what a Winmodem is? Calling people "dumb" and
"greedy" because they don't know what's inside their computer is the
typical whine of the elitist Linux-head.

If I was buying a new computer NOW, I would sure as hell do it differently.

It's analogous to back in the 60s and 70s. Most people who bought stereos
were content to buy a console unit that contained everything needed, even
down to the speakers. Audiofiles, however, built "component systems" in
which every unit was separate. This allowed the user to customize his
system, using whichever tuner, ampifier, turntable, tape deck, and speakers
he favored.

Probably 90% of people bought the self contained unit. They didn't care
what was in it as long as it worked. The same thing applies to computers.

And, yes, I think there is collusion between Intel, Microsoft and other
concerns to build computers that only want to run Windows. The more
computers are out there that won't work properly running Linux, the less
threat Linux actually is to Microsoft.

Get a life.

I have one, thank you. Did you somehow feel attacked or threatened by my
factual statement on why Linux isn't commonly accepted? The fact that you
had to try and put down not only me, but all the "dumb" and "greedy" people
who didn't open the computer case and look inside before they bought it
seems to indicate so.

 

[Joachim Ziebs]

Hi John!

Unfortunately, it's been said that Microsoft forces them not to do
this via various means, and then forces them to sign a non
disclosure agreement regarding such coercion.

Shame, but true.
:-(

What's going to happen is that more and more hardware manufacturers
will appear outside of the U.S., and such hardware will become more
and more popular simply because they don't have drivers for
Microsoft, but do for Linux. Hey, two could play at that game.

Most hardware is already made outside of the US, in Asia. It is then
simply sold to US companies who then glue their logo on it and sell
them and provide support for "their" hardware.
Some examples: the old Jornada PDA by HP was developed and built in
Korea or Thailand, the HP iPaq was developed and is manufactured by
HTC in Taiwan.
Now, with China developing a major interest in computers Linux is in a
good position. AFAIK China already chose Hancom Linux (a distribution
from Hong Kong) as OS. Needless to say that they don't need MS Office
either, because Hancom offers an office suite, too.

When China really goes for Linux, we will see a lot more device
drivers than before. Let us cross fingers for that day!

Greetings,

Joachim
(100% Linux: MDK9.2 on laptop and server, Embellix on PDA)

 

[Ben Cooper]

Meet me on alt.comp.cuneiform and I'll give lessons.

Ha!
No thanks, there are too many arguments in that group about which clay makes
a better tablet.

 

[Joachim Ziebs]

Hi!

How many people are aware of what's inside when they buy a computer?

They should boot their brain before spending large amounts of money.
Or they should bring someone with knowledge along.

How many people even know what a Winmodem is? Calling people "dumb"
and "greedy" because they don't know what's inside their computer is
the typical whine of the elitist Linux-head.

No, it isn't.
It is the voice of the educated buyer. You wouldn't buy a car or house
without getting information about it. Yet, everybody assumes that
they don't need information when chosing a PC.

If I was buying a new computer NOW, I would sure as hell do it
differently.

See, education works!

It's analogous to back in the 60s and 70s. Most people who bought
stereos were content to buy a console unit that contained everything
needed, even down to the speakers. Audiofiles, however, built
"component systems" in which every unit was separate. This allowed
the user to customize his system, using whichever tuner, ampifier,
turntable, tape deck, and speakers he favored.

Probably 90% of people bought the self contained unit. They didn't
care what was in it as long as it worked. The same thing applies to
computers.

Exactly!
Now, remember the introduction of the CD in the 90s. All of those
all-in-one owners had to buy new hardware to use the new format.
Seems analoguous to Windows users who have to buy new hardware to run
Linux. The audiophiles just added a player. Smart hardware buyers
just install Linux.

Greetings,

Joachim

 

[Roger Parks]

This is most likely to happen in the relative safety of overseas

locations, especially as overseas governments adopt Linux and open
source. Here again, Microsoft's monopolies threaten to limit U.S.
jobs, opportunities and American technology leadership."

Boy! You have this exactly right!!

We (Americans) have not yet realized that our monopoly on everything
(post WWII) is gone; that govt. bans on cryptography have moved that
art/science to Europe; that MS's intrusiveness has made Linux the
-certain- desktop OS in Asia, So. America, and parts of EU - and
turning hardware into tattleware/policeware will certainly open up
alternatives there.

I really like my w2k box - got it where I want it - but Linux is clearly
my next OS (though I struggle with it), and I'll -carefully- select my
next 64bit hardware and BIOS, with avoiding intrusiveness in mind!!

 

[Bob Adkins]

Ha!
No thanks, there are too many arguments in that group about which clay makes
a better tablet.

<LOL> You're too much Ben!

Bob

Remove "kins" from address to reply.

 

[DC]

To jimpgh2002, I say "do what you like". I'm simply stating my reasons
for ditching Java for the time being.

My plan is to use tree bark and runes. 80)>

How about a web editor, JC? };O)

http://www.bruciesusenetshit.info/editor/

 

[Its Me]

And yes, this is on topic because Sun Microsystems' Java is freeware:

http://news.com.com/2100-1013_3-5159247.html?tag=nefd_top

Interesting.. The Big companies can't wait for Identification of individule
machines, then they can target popup ads, and Spam, and do a better job
showing us what we need to buy based on where we go and stuff..

If they force a PC to need a sim before downloading Protected songs (like
itunes) then this is another reason to convince people to avoid them and
stick to the traditional MP3s.

-anon

 

[Klaatu]

You'll just have to give me 10 examples of our freedoms being
encroached upon.

Only 10? OK,

1. The federal government forcibly takes a part of our income for its own
use.
2. Our property rights have been eroded so much, that we have very little
say anymore in what we can do with our own property.
3. The current education system and the laws enforcing it stifles our
freedom to choose an alternative.
4. Anti-drug laws enforced by the DEA takes away our freedom to ingest
whatever the hell we want.
5. The Food and Drug Administration also encroaches on our freedom to
choose the drugs that can help fight or prevent our illnesses.
6. Things like the Communications Decency Act has encroached on our
freedom of speech.
7. The continued strengthening of the copyright laws have prevented many
works from entering the public domain. This directly effects our freedom
to build on the past work of others.
8. The federal government's practice of taking huge sections of this
country in the form of "national parks" and such removes much of the land
mass of the US from the free market.
9. The taking of 7-8 percent of our income in an obvious ponzi scheme by
the name of Social Security takes away much our freedom to plan for our
own retirement.
10. Death taxes removes much of the freedom to pass along our hard earned
wealth to our heirs.

Need I go on?

I'm not gutless. If I were gutless, I couldn't face my mother-in-law,
could I?

I wouldn't know about you specifically. Yes, on the whole, gutless.
Gutless to put up with the crap I listed above, among many other things.

 

[Klaatu]

If they force a PC to need a sim before downloading Protected songs (like
itunes) then this is another reason to convince people to avoid them and
stick to the traditional MP3s.

MP3 is not an open standard. Better would be something like Ogg Vorbis.

 

[Bob Adkins]

Only 10? OK,

1. The federal government forcibly takes a part of our income for its own
use.

The alternative is anarchy and no military protection from barbarians.
Having said that, taxes are way too high because of waste.

2. Our property rights have been eroded so much, that we have very little
say anymore in what we can do with our own property.

I agree. Vote for the politicians that agree with you. There are plenty of
them.

3. The current education system and the laws enforcing it stifles our
freedom to choose an alternative.

I agree. The Gov't has no business in education at all except adopting
uniform standards.

4. Anti-drug laws enforced by the DEA takes away our freedom to ingest
whatever the hell we want.

Uh... I almost agree. I agree in principle, but remember that drugs like
meth, cocaine, and opiates are so addicting that many more youngsters would
get hooked if it were more readily available.

5. The Food and Drug Administration also encroaches on our freedom to
choose the drugs that can help fight or prevent our illnesses.

They do the best they can with such an overwhelming task. They do need to
stop the quack remedies and speed up approval of truly effective drugs. I
mean really, should people be allowed to sell those male enhancement
supplements?

6. Things like the Communications Decency Act has encroached on our
freedom of speech.

Hmmm... You have never been free to say or show anything in any setting.
You are and have always been free to voice dissent about the government in
any setting.

7. The continued strengthening of the copyright laws have prevented many
works from entering the public domain. This directly effects our freedom
to build on the past work of others.

Agreed, at least partially. Copyright laws, like tort laws, are good. But
they have ran amok, and need to be reined in. They have gotten so silly that
you are afraid to name your children without an attorney for fear of a law
suit.

8. The federal government's practice of taking huge sections of this
country in the form of "national parks" and such removes much of the land
mass of the US from the free market.

I Agree. The current administration released a huge number from the "no
access" laws of the previous administration, but need to release more.

9. The taking of 7-8 percent of our income in an obvious ponzi scheme by
the name of Social Security takes away much our freedom to plan for our
own retirement.

I agree. Again, there are proposed laws by the current administration to
give the workers more autonomy over their SS account.

10. Death taxes removes much of the freedom to pass along our hard earned
wealth to our heirs.

I agree. Again, the current administration is trying to repeal the Death
Tax. I think it would eventually pass.

Need I go on?

Naaaah... It's off-topic anyway Klaatu. Let's call it a draw.

I wouldn't know about you specifically. Yes, on the whole, gutless.
Gutless to put up with the crap I listed above, among many other things.

Well, just don't call *me gutless is all. I don't care what you call anyone
else. You see, I am so tough I hold my socks up with thumb tacks.

Peace?

Yea, Java sucks.

Bob

Remove "kins" from address to reply.

 

[Klaatu]

The alternative is anarchy and no military protection from barbarians.
Having said that, taxes are way too high because of waste.

Waste, shmaste. I would agrue that there was not anarchy and such before
1913 (the year the 16th Amendment was "ratified").

[snip]

Uh... I almost agree. I agree in principle, but remember that drugs
like meth, cocaine, and opiates are so addicting that many more
youngsters would get hooked if it were more readily available.

While that is a laudible goal (denying drugs to minors), that's still no
excuse to deny those freedoms to adults.

[snip]

Naaaah... It's off-topic anyway Klaatu. Let's call it a draw.

Agreed.

Peace?

Yea, Java sucks.

Nice save.