Wireless router

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OK what is a switch and how would it attach to the router?

They filter and forward network traffic. Essentially, in
simplest terms for your use, plugging a switch into your
router is the equivalent of the router having more ports.

Does it go in one of the port openings which then has more port openings which the machines then hook into?
Yes


The trouble is each port opening has an IP address.

No, each machine does. If you plugged them into a switch,
they will still either receive DHCP configuration from your
router or retain their otherwise-assigned IP addresses the
same as if any/all were directly connected to the router
(actually it's the router's integral switch) port.
Would a switch having more that one port have trouble with IP address coming out of one port on the router?

No, you can even daisey-chain switches. Don't think of a
port having an IP number, it is the host that just (happens
to be) connected to that port that has the IP number and
thus, so long as it's connected in your local lan still, the
rules for it having (whichever IP number and however it got
it) remain the same.

I have just gotten a Hub but I think I'll ask about this seperately.

That's fine, use the hub instead since you already have it.
The difference is that the hub doesn't do the filtering, it
broadcasts traffic on all ports instead of only the one
route to the destination. That can be a performance problem
when several systems are connected and simultaneously
"needing" high throughput but for your purpose it will work
fine.
 
kony said:
On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 21:51:26 GMT, "George Hester"
OK what is a switch and how would it attach to the router?
Does it go in one of the port openings which then has more
port openings which the machines then hook into? The
trouble is each port opening has an IP address.

No, each *device* (ie. computer) has an IP address.
Would a switch having more that one port have trouble with
IP address coming out of one port on the router?

Nope, just continue to allocate IP addresses to each additional
machine.
 
kony said:
They filter and forward network traffic. Essentially, in
simplest terms for your use, plugging a switch into your
router is the equivalent of the router having more ports.


No, each machine does. If you plugged them into a switch,

Each "network interface" has an IP address (and can have more
than one too), and a "machine" (host) may have multiple network
interfaces. But there can be many "ports" on each interface
too, which is where hubs and switches come into the picture.

The context here has been to call the RJ-45 jack a "port", but
keep in mind one or many such ports might be associated with a
single "network interface". I.e., several RJ-45 jacks can be
associated with the same IP address(es). (And for the most
part, in this discussion, IP addressing can be ignored.)
they will still either receive DHCP configuration from your
router or retain their otherwise-assigned IP addresses the
same as if any/all were directly connected to the router
(actually it's the router's integral switch) port.


No, you can even daisey-chain switches. Don't think of a
port having an IP number, it is the host that just (happens
to be) connected to that port that has the IP number and
thus, so long as it's connected in your local lan still, the
rules for it having (whichever IP number and however it got
it) remain the same.

There are some caveats that need to be explained though.
That's fine, use the hub instead since you already have it.
The difference is that the hub doesn't do the filtering, it
broadcasts traffic on all ports instead of only the one
route to the destination. That can be a performance problem
when several systems are connected and simultaneously
"needing" high throughput but for your purpose it will work
fine.

Lets restate that in a different way, and point out the
significance of how hubs and switches differ.

A /hub/ has multiple ports, and every Ethernet frame received
on any one port is transmitted on all of the others. There is
no *isolation* between the ports. Hence a 5 port hub with four
devices connected to it sends all data to all devices. If a
packet sniffer, a wireless device, or whatever unsecure device
is connected to the 5th port, it can see *all* traffic.

A /switch/ has multiple ports, but it switches packets only to
appropriate ports, each of which knows the unique MAC address of
the Ethernet device connected to it. Only Ethernet frames
addressed to that MAC address will be sent on that port. Hence
traffic for each port is isolated from the others, and cannot be
"sniffed" on ports other than the incoming and outgoing pair.

All of the above is done at the *Ethernet* *frame* level, and
does not involve IP addressing or routing at all.

There is one other catch to extending the number of router ports
that needs to be kept in mind when laying out network
topography. A ten port switch or hub connected to a 4 port
router is fine... *if* the aggregate traffic going to the
router port is less than the bitrate of the single port! Hence
if 1 port goes to the router and 9 ports go to
devices/hosts/whatever that typically generate large amounts of
traffic to the router, that 1 port will be a bottleneck.

The devices are able to use their full bitrate to each other
without causing a bottleneck.

Hence if you have a file server that is heavily used by all of
the devices on the switch, it should (all other things being
equal) be connected to a switch port rather than a router port.

Put things like bandwidth limited WAN connections, Internet
connections, print servers, and the like on those extra router
ports, and keep all of the high bandwidth devices on ports of
the *same* switch.

Routing, which involves IP addresses, does not happen in a hub
or a switch, and will only be seen between *interfaces* on the
router (as opposed to between "ports"). Many of the Wireless
router/access-points being sold have *two* interfaces, labeled
WAN and WLAN/LAN. The WAN has one port, which is connected to
the Internet modem and the WLAN/LAN has 4 or more ports. There
is *routing* between the WAN and the other ports, but no routing
takes place between the WLAN/LAN ports (which are actually on a
6 port switch, with one port connected internally to the
WLAN/LAN interface, one port connected to the wireless, and 4
ports with RJ-45 connectors).

Some units allow the internal switch configuration to be
modified, and in fact each LAN port *can* have an IP address,
with routing between them. But don't assume that without
verifying it.
 
Schrodinger said:
I think you'll struggle at that distance. My router signal is bordering
useless on the ground floor when on the top floor of our house (2nd floor UK
3rd floor US). It is a stone house with thick walls/ceilings, but only 8
metres or so away in a straight line.

Any 802.11g card will do anyway.



I'm inclined to agree.

For every inch (.025m)of solid material which the signal passes
through,in a straight line, range will be decreased by 120-180 inches
(3-4.5m).

As Floyd said earlier in the thread, it might work if his window and
your window face each other, with both PCs near the windows. Otherwise,
additional hardware will be required.




How's you cat keeping, Schrodinger ?
 
Each "network interface" has an IP address (and can have more
than one too), and a "machine" (host) may have multiple network
interfaces. But there can be many "ports" on each interface
too, which is where hubs and switches come into the picture.

True, but this is not necessarily useful within the context
of the thread. His need was rather simple so the answer was
simplified too.

Lets restate that in a different way, and point out the
significance of how hubs and switches differ.

Let's use some common sense instead, he simply needed to
know the effect of choosing one over the other, what will
meet his needs.

A /hub/ has multiple ports, and every Ethernet frame received
on any one port is transmitted on all of the others. There is
no *isolation* between the ports. Hence a 5 port hub with four
devices connected to it sends all data to all devices. If a
packet sniffer, a wireless device, or whatever unsecure device
is connected to the 5th port, it can see *all* traffic.

This is true but not so useful within the context of the
thread. Keep in mind that no matter what a thread is about,
we could endlessly elaborate about the involved technology
and in the end it would just be a lot of waste.
 
kony said:
This is true but not so useful within the context of the
thread. Keep in mind that no matter what a thread is about,
we could endlessly elaborate about the involved technology
and in the end it would just be a lot of waste.

In the end, if he has learned about the pitfalls *before hand*
he won't be having to fix them after the fact.

I don't think a word of that was not useful within the context
of the thread. The fact that the OP didn't yet know what the
next step will be doesn't mean he won't be taking it.

What you told him wasn't so much wrong as it was confusing,
imprecise, and did not provide enough detail to indicate why any
given choice might be the right one. The OP doesn't need to
know your decision or mine so much as needing to know how to
make the decision.
 
In the end, if he has learned about the pitfalls *before hand*
he won't be having to fix them after the fact.

I don't think a word of that was not useful within the context
of the thread. The fact that the OP didn't yet know what the
next step will be doesn't mean he won't be taking it.

Perhaps, but if he had been interested in the entire
switching knowledgebase, there are online tutorials for
that. Usually someone is seeking more directly applicable
information towards their expressed goal.
 
kony I think you have refined my understanding of this. I be looking for a switch now. thx.
 
This is true but not so useful within the context of the
thread. Keep in mind that no matter what a thread is about,
we could endlessly elaborate about the involved technology
and in the end it would just be a lot of waste.

No no it was way over my head. But I saved it and will refer back to it. I appreciate getting all the information and I appreciate your information too kony.
 
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