Windows XP OEM

[Papa]

Sarcastic?? Doug was just offering you the truth.

 

[Ally]

No you can't always decide what you want to do with what you
purchase. I purchased my house. If I decide I want to add a room
I must get a building permit from the City first.

Point taken; but these things affect the public, whereas no such harm
is done when I wreck a car and attempt to continue using my radio. Or
when I install an OS. That's more like painting my existing bedroom a
new shade of pink (except OEM Pink won't work with third-party walls
for some reason).

I buy a car. I
decide to leave it unlocked, running with the keys in the
ignition. Someone steals it. In my town you are fined for
leaving an unlocked running car with the keys in the ignition.

And I'd still say you have a right to lose your property. Who does
that law benefit? Insurance companies? The police? The thirteen-year-
olds who might steal your car and get themselves killed in the
process? (Not asking rhethorically, I plain and simple don't know.)

My car right?, My house right? I hardly think so. For some
convoluted reason we think that we have full and total rights to
something because we paid cash for it. Human vanity.

Full and total rights to a cat? The land? A lake? No, I don't think
so either. Yet every day imprisoned animals are industrially
slaughtered, or tortured so we have lip gloss. Legally. Any laws are
debatable.

The earth was here a billion years before we
walked the planet and it will be here a billion years after all
of us are dead and we think we *own* the parcel of land we sit
on. We own nothing.

But neither cars, nor radios, and certainly nothing as immaterial as
computer programs have been here for a billion years. I don't think
we can take the analogy that far.

What I'm upset about is corporations' decisions to artificially
restrict their products' capabilities and thereby their own
customers. If you don't understand the mindset that produces an
"eula.txt" (and how's _that_ for "convoluted"?), you typically don't
find out about such things until you've already paid for that shiny
new installation CD whirring in your drive.

Naturally, you want to start using your computer rather than return
the product. If that's even possible -- I'm not sure I could've read
the EULA without breaking the seal on the CD case. *shrug*

Other than that -- sure, I don't have to buy their things if I don't
like the terms and conditions I'd have to agree with. It's a pity,
but it seems like I'm just not compatible with Microsoftware.

~Ally

 

[Frank]

Software as a Component of the Computer - Transfer. THIS
LICENSE MAY NOT BE SHARED,
TRANSFERRED TO OR USED _CONCURRENTLY_
ON DIFFERENT COMPUTERS

Bruce Chambers wrote:

| Greetings --
|
| You are entitled to be disappointed in the quality of support
| you've received from the PC's manufacturer, yes. The PC's
| manufacturer told you that you couldn't get a free replacement
| motherboard because your warranty had expired. They certainly could
| have done a little better here, by offering alternatives. But you're
| not entirely blameless. But did _you_ ask if a replacement could be
| purchased from them? How much hand-holding and coddling do you need?
|
| For generations, the simple rule has been "Buyer Beware." This
| applies to computers just as much as it does to any other product or
| service. People aren't really scolding you, but you do deserve it, to
| a certain extant. You consciously chose to purchase that specific
| computer from that specific manufacturer with that OEM licensed
| software and that specific warranty, and now you're whining because
| _you_ didn't "read the fine print." Adults accept responsibility for
| the consequences of their actions and decisions, good _and_ bad.
|
|
| Bruce Chambers
|
|
| || The thing is, if I buy a car and it breaks down, I can put
|| a new carburetor in it myself and drive it to work. And if
|| I called my dealership and told them that the carburetor
|| was out, they wouldn't tell me that my warranty was up and
|| hang up. They'd offer me a part, BEFORE I had purchased
|| one from Autozone; especially if they knew that any other
|| brand would not work. I have looked through all the
|| paperwork that came with my pc, there is nothing there
|| telling me that replacement parts are even available from
|| the manuf. As far as reading anything off the HD, you
|| have to be kidding me. Have you been reading the posts?
|| The pc is collecting dust. It doesn't run. Why are so
|| many so quick to scold me? I have a reasonable right to
|| be dissapointed.
||
||| -----Original Message-----
||| It's like anything else you buy -- the salesman isn't
|| going to tell you all
||| the pitfalls of buying his particular product. If you go
|| car shopping, they
||| aren't going to tell you that one model has parts back-
|| ordered for months,
||| they're going to talk about great prices, good gas
|| mileage, etc.
|||
||| As far as MS not supporting OEM software, that
|| information is easily
||| available. There are questions posted on these boards
|| almost daily asking
||| what the difference is between OEM and retail software.
|| As far as Microsoft
||| "warning" you, that information is part of the EULA (end-
|| user license
||| agreement) that you clicked "ok" on when you first got
|| your computer, and
||| that file is still on your computer. As far as not
|| finding it when you
||| looked at MSs web site, what company is going to
|| post "Things we aren't
||| going to do for you under various specific
|| circumstances"? The list would be
||| endless. But the information is there if you look for it.
|||
||| You'll find that it's the same thing with all the "parts"
|| of your old
||| computer. When you tried to get a new motherboard, you
|| went to the company
||| that made the computer, not the company that made the
|| motherboard, right? If
||| you went to the company that made the motherboard, they
|| wouldn't help you.
||| If you had a SoundBlaster sound card in your computer and
|| you had problems
||| with it, they'd tell you to go back to the computer
|| manufacturer, too.
||| That's the way it works.
|||
||| It's really not much different than any OEM product. If
|| you bought a car and
||| the radio blew up, you'd take it back to the car dealer,
|| you wouldn't go
||| back to the company that made the radio or its
|| components. OEM parts,
||| including software, are just like that radio...they're
|| part of the whole
||| thing that you're buying -- either computer or car -- and
|| when you have a
||| problem with any component, you go back to the place that
|| built the whole
||| thing, not to the company that made each component.
|||
||| This probably isn't something that people think about
|| when they buy
||| something, until things go wrong. When you buy your next
|| computer (or
||| anything else, for that matter), you'll have a better
|| idea of what you're
||| really getting for your money.
|||
||| |||| Why am I upset? When the MB first went out and I called
|||| the manuf, the choice of getting parts from them was
|| never
|||| offered. I was told that the warranty was out and that
|||| they could not help me with parts. They could only give
|||| me email support. So, I made the "mistake" of buying a
|||| motherboard and putting it in myself. My other mistake
|||| was thinking that I had purchased a copy of Windows XP
|||| when I purchased my computer. No one educates people
|||| about things like OEMs when they are buying computers.
|||| Microsoft included. When I was buying my computer, I
|| had
|||| a choice of operating systems. I went to Microsoft's
|||| website to get "informed". Nowhere did I see a warning
|||| that if something were to go wrong they would not help
|||| with my copy of their software if I had not purchased
|| from
|||| them. So, I realise now thanks to all of your helpful
|||| responses when you purchase a computer you are NOT
|||| purchasing a copy of windows.
||||| -----Original Message-----
||||| Why do you think that Microsoft should talk to you.
|||||
||||| Everything you've got is OEM. They're responsible for it. Your
||||| mistake was buying a motherboard from someone else. Now you have
||||| to
|||| deal with it by
||||| purchasing Windows XP retail, OR, return the new
|||| motherboard and purchase a
||||| replacement from the OEM.
|||||
||||| No other way. Sorry!
|||||
|||||
||||| |||||| Have a computer purchased 11/2001. The capacitors on
|||| the
|||||| MB blew ruining the board. I called the manufacturer
|||| and
|||||| was told that the warranty was out, too bad. So, I
|||| bought
|||||| a new MB and put it in, now the OEM won't let me
|||| install.
|||||| Called the manuf. back and they are telling me that
|| the
|||||| copy of XP is BIOS specific per their licensing
|||| agreement
|||||| with MS and that I should go buy a retail copy of XP.
|||| Or,
|||||| I could buy another MB from them. MS won't even
|| talk to
|||||| me. Any suggestions?
|||||
|||||
||||| .
|||||
|||
|||
||| .

 

[Chris Fiorentino]

Hopefully you won't take this as sarcastic, but I am not trying to be.
I am no expert at all in this stuff, but I have followed the prices
of computers for the last few years. I would think you could buy your
exact same computer that was purchased 11/2001 for less than $500 now,
even if it was the highest end computer at that time. These things
become obsolete within 6 months nowadays. Why would you want to buy a
motherboard, OS, etc. for this one when you can just buy a new one.
Actually, the new one, for under $500, would probably be better than
the one you had before.

Just my $.02.

 

[Harry Ohrn]

All is vanity and chasing after the wind.

 

[Tom]

There is a fellow out there who repairs MB's with blown caps! He
usually visits the ABIT ng.
(ABIT, if you don't know, is a well regarded MB manufacturer. They
pioneered the 'jumperless' MB's where you can change hardware settings
from the BIOS setup screens. Settings like the FSB, multipliers, core
voltages, etc - no need to take the PC apart to make changes.)

Since I'm on the road, I don't have the URL but a search with google
might bring him up for you or go to the ABIT ng and ask around.

This blown caps problem is a known issue, especially with ABIT MB's.
They got hold of a batch of bad ones and used them in their KT7 series
MB's. But, according to the fellow above - other boards are affected
as well.

Apparently a cap mfgr in the pacific rim used a cheap batch of
electrolyte to cut corners.

-=tom=-

 

[Ally]

There are all sorts of restrictions on products that you
probably never even think about. Some of it has to do with
safety or warranty ("do not use in bathtub" "For home use
only").

What's the nature of those restrictions? What would happen
(legally) if I did use "it" in a bathtub?

[snip]

I've purchased products that seem
like they'd do what I want, but when I get them home, they
aren't capable of it for one reason or another. The problem
certainly isn't restricted to computers or software.

You can disobey those rules, of course, as there's no way for
most products to keep you from dumping it in the tub or taking
it to work with you.

Well, and I hope that won't change. Even though I don't often plan
to electrocute myself, it's a restriction I can ignore, or at least
live with. (Heh.) It's not like I was forbidden to "transfer" my
hair dryer to a new apartment. Though I'm half expecting someone to
point out that that is, indeed, the case by now.

And you can tweak your car engine, if you
know how.

Other restrictions protect the copyright owner's rights.

[snipping examples]

Needless to say, if you can't live with those restrictions, you
shouldn't buy e-books and just stick to the free ones and only
buy paper copies that don't have the technical restrictions on
them.

I can sort-of live with copy protection schemes and the like,
though I sure don't like them (what's with fair use?) and have, so
far, avoided such products effortlessly.

What irks me more is when such restrictions enter the hardware, the
BIOS, device drivers and whatever else the future might bring. I
used to think of multimedia-oriented computers as versatile
creativity tools, not remote-controlled entertainment terminals. Oh
well. I'll just have to avoid such hardware too, then.

I don't want to start a RIAA/MPAA/DMCA/DRM/Palladium-or-whatever-
else-it's-called-now-discussion though.

If it came WITH the computer, you'd have to return the whole
computer, most likely, or haggle with the computer manufacturer
to let you have the computer without their pre-installed OS.
That would be up to them. If it was retail, you could easily
return it directly to MS.

(It was neither; it was a full installation CD for system builders,
and in and of itself not tied to a specific mainboard. The computer
I installed it on is from '99 or so. But yes, I should've taken the
time to fully understand the intricacies of the EULA, and then try
to return it.)

That's pretty much the case with a lot of things that come with
licenses, leases, contracts, or warranties. It's true that most
people don't read the fine print, but that doesn't mean that its
not binding. If you start reading that stuff, you might be
surprised at what you're agreeing to by using certain products.

I might also go crazy in the process. Or crazier. *shrug*

The restrictions have always been in place with MSs operating
systems, it's just that there hasn't been a way to enforce it
very well. So people got used to buying one copy of Windows and
putting it on 3 computers.

Or on one computer at a time, spanning three computers. Right, it
wouldn't have occured to me that something like that might be
against the license until I encountered the WPA. I used to think
"don't pirate the thing, and it'll be okay."

[snippety]

I think it's interesting that people think software purchases
should be different than other things they buy. For one thing,
they think that if they lose the software, they should get a
free replacement, if they haven't lost all of the components.

And not _entirely_ unreasonably so since, unlike a padlock,
duplicating something immaterial like software doesn't exactly cost
anyone much. But no, I suppose it's not up to the customer to
decide whether such a service should be offered.

So
I bought a new padlock and lost it, but I still have the key.
Should the company give me a new padlock? Unless there's some
sort of replacement insurance, if you lose something, it's lost.
The manufacturer doesn't replace it. Or at least not without a
fee.

Or they lose data, and they expect someone else to take care of
that. "I bought a new wallet, and it fell out of my pocket and
all my money blew away. Who is going to replace the money?

And people expect all sorts of free technical help with
computers that they wouldn't get elsewhere. Go tear apart your
car engine, scatter the pieces in the garage, then start calling
the dealership, the car manufacturer, and the engine
manufacturer and see who offers free phone support.

I'm not sure I understand why you're bringing up these examples
now. I didn't lose or break anything. I didn't get support with XP
anyway, so I'm not demanding any either.

If you break a new product by using it in a way that the
warranty doesn't cover, you won't get a replacement. Most people
wouldn't argue that. They used the carving knife to open a paint
can, and now it's bent. Oops. But if you "break" the software by
using it in a way not covered by the fine print, it's sort of
the same situation. That OEM copy of windows from Compaq isn't
supposed to run on your old Gateway. Or that new copy of XP
isn't going to run on your 486.

If you buy a new car, you don't expect that you can start
ripping parts out of the old one and adding them to the new one.
And the bigger the age difference, the less likely it is that
parts will be compatible. The tires might not fit, the leaded
fuel could be a problem, etc. But people expect that every piece
of hardware and every bit of software they own should transfer
flawlessly to a new computer with a new OS. Some stuff will
transfer, some won't.

I don't expect that where it's technically improbable.

Not that I see a reasonable excuse for not supporting old 720K
floppy disks in XP. For example.

It's a full installation CD and it _will_, most likely, transfer.
It won't neccessarily "activate", though. That's what bugs me. Not
that a compatibility problem wouldn't, but this isn't one.

Maybe the software vendor could have had the decency to point out
that "no support from MS" isn't the _only_ difference between the
"system builder"/OEM and retail versions.

Then again, the people who're supposed to buy these versions (i.e.
OEMs) no doubt already know what they're getting _their_ customers
into.

It's a pity,

There are software programs that are more restrictive and more
annoying than what MS has implemented. Those other programs tend
to have a smaller market share or special segment of the market,
though, so most people haven't run into them.

Yah... fortunately, much of the software I use is freeware or open
source. I don't ordinarily get to worry about the legal pitfalls of
using things the way I want.

You'll probably
see more companies do what MS has done.

It's still more annoying with operating systems than with
applications which can usually be replaced more easily.

If that's not your cup of tea, there's always Linux. It will run
on the hardware you have.

So does XP. But yes. I've been flirting with Linux every now and
then, and recent distros do cooperate with most of my hardware.
I'm just not so sure it's the right OS for a graphic designer,
though. Oh, well. I'll find out when I get there.

~Ally

 

[D.Currie]

What's the nature of those restrictions? What would happen
(legally) if I did use "it" in a bathtub?

Your heirs wouldn't be able to get a new one?
heh.

[snip]

(It was neither; it was a full installation CD for system builders,
and in and of itself not tied to a specific mainboard. The computer
I installed it on is from '99 or so. But yes, I should've taken the
time to fully understand the intricacies of the EULA, and then try
to return it.)

That's one problem with those generic OEM CDs...they're cheaper than retail,
so people buy them, but they're really manufactured for small OEMs to use,
and those OEMs know what the rules are. There's a support mechanism in place
for those OEMs but it doesn't exist for individuals, because that's not
who's supposed to be buying them.

Or on one computer at a time, spanning three computers. Right, it
wouldn't have occured to me that something like that might be
against the license until I encountered the WPA. I used to think
"don't pirate the thing, and it'll be okay."

With retail, you could hippety-hop that software from one computer to
another with mad abandon. The OEM copies are different.

[snippety]

I think it's interesting that people think software purchases
should be different than other things they buy. For one thing,
they think that if they lose the software, they should get a
free replacement, if they haven't lost all of the components.

And not _entirely_ unreasonably so since, unlike a padlock,
duplicating something immaterial like software doesn't exactly cost
anyone much. But no, I suppose it's not up to the customer to
decide whether such a service should be offered.

The padlock doesn't cost all that much, either, when it comes down to it,
unless we're talking about some high-security stainless steel monster. But
in general, if a consumer loses something, either he replaces it ot the
insurance company does. I can't think of another instance where a consumer
would expect that the manufacturer would be responsible.

I'm not sure I understand why you're bringing up these examples
now. I didn't lose or break anything. I didn't get support with XP
anyway, so I'm not demanding any either.

Not necessarily you in particular, I was just ranting. People often come to
these groups complaining about or or the other.

It's a full installation CD and it _will_, most likely, transfer.
It won't neccessarily "activate", though. That's what bugs me. Not
that a compatibility problem wouldn't, but this isn't one.

If it's been more than 120 days since activation, it likely will activate.
If it's been less and you explain that you repaired your computer, you'll
also be able to activate. If you tell them, "I'm moving my oem software from
one computer to another" they'll tell you that you can't.

Maybe the software vendor could have had the decency to point out
that "no support from MS" isn't the _only_ difference between the
"system builder"/OEM and retail versions.

It would have been nice, but at least you knew it was oem. Some online
sellers just say that it's the full version, and even show a retail box, but
what they're selling is OEM.

Then again, the people who're supposed to buy these versions (i.e.
OEMs) no doubt already know what they're getting _their_ customers
into.

They better. That's what they're in the business for.

<snip>

 

[JAD]

You also had some choices to make when you purchased your computer.
1. Did you consider buying an extended warranty? For about $150, I got a
3-yr on-site warranty last yr.
2.Did you use a gold or platinum Visa card (a must for electronic
purchases)? If so, your warranty is doubled up to 1 additional year (as long
as the original warranty is 3 yrs or less)