Windows XP Color Management - Opinions, Please

[Neil Gould]

Here is the original question:
"Is this worth installing/setting up, or can you recommend a better
product to coordinate the colour input/output of all devices?"

Peter asked about a PRODUCT, and whether it is the best choice for CM
coordination.

[...]

Thank you, Neil. That -- and that alone -- is what I was asking.

Sorry that I can't give you specific feedback about that product, Peter.
However, I concur with the others that you'll get all you need when you
purchase peripherals of a "pro-sumer" quality or better. Also, Windows has
long had the ability to coordinate profiles across applications through
its "Color" subdirectories. All this requires is that the applications
that you choose be CM-savvy.

Regards,

Neil

 

[Hecate]

Not only is my comment NOT about getting "near as you're going to get"
from an inkjet, you've apparently not understood any of the implications
of what my comment IS about. To make it a little more clear; Epson
printers lack a facility for calibration, ergo, it is only a reasonable
"proofer" if one's CM requirements are quite low. Any decent print shop
could give results as close whether or not you hand them an inkjet "proof"
of the job. If you ever wind up with a client that wants you to match the
color of paint chips on everything from their business cards to their
billboards, you'll know *exactly* what I mean by this. ;-)

I do know what you mean, though it's not work I have anything to do
with any more. However, you can calibrate Epson printers. See,
www.pixl.dk for example. The calibration, does, of course, have to be
for a specific ink set with a specific paper.

What assumptions might those be?

My comments in this thread have to do with your assertions re: CM in
general, and specifically CM under Windows OS. I notice that your career
path doesn't include work in prepress, so it's understandably that your
knowledge of CM will be limited. But your notions of CM under Windows are
so misleading as to be quite unhelpful to those asking the kind of
question that Peter asked. That, in a nutshell, is all I've been trying to
get across to you.

Actually, it did, though indirectly, in that all the work done in
design at the military establishment was printed there and I had to
support the computer end including the software.

M<Y original comment was never about CM under Windows, but the CM
capabilities of the OS. So I have to disagree.

--

Hecate - The Real One
(e-mail address removed)
Fashion: Buying things you don't need, with money
you don't have, to impress people you don't like...

 

[Neil Gould]

[...]To make it a little more
clear; Epson printers lack a facility for calibration, ergo, it is
only a reasonable "proofer" if one's CM requirements are quite low.

[...] However, you can calibrate Epson printers. See,
www.pixl.dk for example.

What this company is offering is a set of profiles for specific paper,
ink, etc. They are a starting point, at best, and does NOT calibrate the
printer! The end user still has no idea whether their specific printer,
the batch of paper they just purchased, or the inks that they've had for a
while are producing valid color output on any given day. So, where on the
printer are they going to plug in their densitometer and adjust the inking
curves (aka "calibrate the printer") to compensate for these factors?

M<Y original comment was never about CM under Windows, but the CM
capabilities of the OS. So I have to disagree.

As Peter (the OP) pointed out... nobody asked you about that.

Neil

 

[Hecate]

[...]To make it a little more
clear; Epson printers lack a facility for calibration, ergo, it is
only a reasonable "proofer" if one's CM requirements are quite low.

[...] However, you can calibrate Epson printers. See,
www.pixl.dk for example.

What this company is offering is a set of profiles for specific paper,
ink, etc. They are a starting point, at best, and does NOT calibrate the
printer! The end user still has no idea whether their specific printer,
the batch of paper they just purchased, or the inks that they've had for a
while are producing valid color output on any given day. So, where on the
printer are they going to plug in their densitometer and adjust the inking
curves (aka "calibrate the printer") to compensate for these factors?

What you say is just as valid for any other printer. Whilst prepress
printers have that facility as you should know ink changes can occur
not only from run to run but within runs. Having a densitometer
plugged in doesn't guarantee perfect results every time. Nothing does.
Which is why you send proof prints along with files. And why so many
professionals use Epsons to do so - because, despite computer control
and turning printers into people who maintain machines and operate
software, there is never any guarantee that you will get exactly what
you want unless you show them. In the days when most printers
actually understood what they were doing (i.e. the middle to late last
century) your seeming opinion that everything is nearly perfect in the
world of prepress printers would have had some validity. Nowadays, I
think not.

As Peter (the OP) pointed out... nobody asked you about that.

Then he shouldn't have put in the subject line: Windows XP Colour
Management - Opinions, Please.

So, you want to continue posting disagreements or not? I know you
boys like to have the last word so I won't bother to reply unless you
want more disagreement.

--

Hecate - The Real One
(e-mail address removed)
Fashion: Buying things you don't need, with money
you don't have, to impress people you don't like...

 

[Neil Gould]

On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 11:29:38 GMT, "Neil Gould"

[...]To make it a little more
clear; Epson printers lack a facility for calibration, ergo, it is
only a reasonable "proofer" if one's CM requirements are quite low.

[...] However, you can calibrate Epson printers. See,
www.pixl.dk for example.

What this company is offering is a set of profiles for specific
paper, ink, etc. They are a starting point, at best, and does NOT
calibrate the printer! The end user still has no idea whether their
specific printer, the batch of paper they just purchased, or the
inks that they've had for a while are producing valid color output
on any given day. So, where on the printer are they going to plug in
their densitometer and adjust the inking curves (aka "calibrate the
printer") to compensate for these factors?

What you say is just as valid for any other printer. Whilst prepress
printers have that facility as you should know ink changes can occur
not only from run to run but within runs. Having a densitometer
plugged in doesn't guarantee perfect results every time.

For proofing printers, the capability to adjust inking curves through
densitometric readings provides the facility to compensate for factors
that affect color balance as often as needed. That is why any serious
proofers such as those from Xerox, Xanté, Iris, etc. provide this
capability. As Epson printers lack this capability, that should tell you
all one needs to know about them as proofers. On the press end, the
advanced closed-loop CM systems I wrote about earlier automatically adjust
for these factors during the run, while simple presses require the
pressman to take samples during long runs and toss those that fail
industry tolerances. This is why I originally responded that CM is not a
platform-specific issue.

Which is why you send proof prints along with files.

Without calibration controls on the proofer, the prints don't mean much.
Again, any decent shop can get you just as close with or without them.

Neil