xfile said:Hi,
Since you're a qualified educator, I have only one thing to add - There is
nothing in the world is without self-interests, and if there is, please
let me know one because I wish to learn.
Even true voluntary works for charities without any intensions for
monetary or business reward have self-interests. In this case, the
self-interests is to make one feels useful and glad to be helpful.
Psychology 101 - People doing things based on motivation and motivation is
self-interest. The only difference is if the self-interest is
selfish-minded without consideration of the public interests and/or if it
will interfere any professional ethics.
My self-interest for replying all these threads is to share the empathy
with those who should have one but not which I personally think is wrong,
but it's just a personal value.
What I don't understand is the self-interest of those who have got one but
feel so strongly about others shouldn't, and this is where I got into
intensive debate. Does the self-interest of CPP members interfere theirs
or yours, and this is something I failed to see it. Or because it is
something wrong for their master? In any case, this is what puzzles me
the most.
As for you, what is your self-interest in all of it?
It seems to me that you've put self-interest in a negative way, if not, I
apologize. But if it is, you should ought to know that nothing is without
self-interest, and the only difference is what kind of self-interest,
Colin Barnhorst said:What really concerns me in these threads on this topic is the envy on the
one hand and defensiveness on the other. It is almost as though
membership in TechBeta automatically marginalizes the opinions of a TB
tester who has received an invitation that a CPP-only participant did not
get. None of the rationalizations impress me. Worse, even if correct
they don't make any difference.
There isn't a single poster in this ng that does not have self-interest.
Self-interest is normal and acceptible. But it sure dosn't seem like
many are managing their self-interests very well. I wouldn't care about
this but this is threatening to polarize this ng just at the time we
should all be comparing notes and getting ready to help the flood of
newbies that we are about to see. I sure hope this theme disappears from
the ng soon.
I think that the best way to address the disappointments and concerns
about this whole issue of the freebie is to give feedback directly to the
Vista team at (e-mail address removed) or indirectly through one of the many
feedback url's on microsoft.com. All we are doing here is taking in each
other's wash.
Mr. Vista said:What's interesting is that you now claim "I don't expect anything in
return from Microsoft", however you previously wrote:
"I did suggest via the Vista feedback system, that discounts/free
copies
should be rewarded based on number of verified/unique bug reports
submited. Rewarding those who provide good feedback rather than
those
lucky enough to get selected, but can't be bothered..."
Considering that you submitted "at least 100 of these significant
bug reports" then surely such a reward system would reward you. and
yet you claim you "don't expect anything".
Sounds like a double standard to me... Mr. Gillepsie
Suggesting that rewards be given based on a certain criteria is _not_
contradictory to not expecting anything. Why can't you understand
the difference and understand that someone can feel that way? There
is a big difference between saying it would be nice to get a reward,
and saying I _expect_ something.
This is the main reason why these threads are started and continue -
a sad attitude of entitlement. Whether one participated in the CPP
or the Tech Beta nothing was promised either group. People should
have gone into it, and come out at the end knowing and feeling that
they were not entitled to anything, and so shouldn't expect anything.
After it was all over, the fact that one group of people in one
program based on an arbitrary criteria - and there has has to be
some threshold- were given something, is irrelevant. Because one
group is given something for free cannot be construed in any way as a
basis for claiming me too.
Every reward/bonus program I have ever seen has had this self
centered crying after the fact- poor me why didn't I get it. It's a
sad commentary.
What's with the underscores?.
Before you judge others as proclaiming "poor me why didn't I get it.
It's a sad commentary" and "a sad attitude of entitlement" you
*should* disclose that you are a member of the Technical Beta program
and were given a free copy of Vista.
Your one-sided selfish comments are hypocritical.
As I wrote originally whether it was promised or not, given or not, is
irrelevant. It is a _very_ sad era of entitlement and you exemplify
this. You cannot see the difference between suggesting and expecting,
between appreciating a gift and expecting something to be given.
Have you taken a course in circuitous argument?.
It's laughable that you declare that a "a sad attitude of entitlement"
exists when you are a recipient yourself.
As eloquently stated to Colin, "I have noticed that whenever a post that
supports the CPP bug submitters appears it is usually shot down by
Technical Beta Testers whom themselves received a 'reward' for their
contribution (in most cases justly so). To me it's a double standard,
though not in your [Colin's] case."
Just be happy with your free gift and don't be so bitter.
xfile said:Hi,
Since you're a qualified educator, I have only one thing to add - There is
nothing in the world is without self-interests, and if there is, please
let me know one because I wish to learn.
Even true voluntary works for charities without any intensions for
monetary or business reward have self-interests. In this case, the
self-interests is to make one feels useful and glad to be helpful.
Psychology 101 - People doing things based on motivation and motivation is
self-interest. The only difference is if the self-interest is
selfish-minded without consideration of the public interests and/or if it
will interfere any professional ethics.
My self-interest for replying all these threads is to share the empathy
with those who should have one but not which I personally think is wrong,
but it's just a personal value.
What I don't understand is the self-interest of those who have got one but
feel so strongly about others shouldn't, and this is where I got into
intensive debate. Does the self-interest of CPP members interfere theirs
or yours, and this is something I failed to see it. Or because it is
something wrong for their master? In any case, this is what puzzles me
the most.
As for you, what is your self-interest in all of it?
It seems to me that you've put self-interest in a negative way, if not, I
apologize. But if it is, you should ought to know that nothing is without
self-interest, and the only difference is what kind of self-interest,
Colin Barnhorst said:What really concerns me in these threads on this topic is the envy on the
one hand and defensiveness on the other. It is almost as though
membership in TechBeta automatically marginalizes the opinions of a TB
tester who has received an invitation that a CPP-only participant did not
get. None of the rationalizations impress me. Worse, even if correct
they don't make any difference.
There isn't a single poster in this ng that does not have self-interest.
Self-interest is normal and acceptible. But it sure dosn't seem like
many are managing their self-interests very well. I wouldn't care about
this but this is threatening to polarize this ng just at the time we
should all be comparing notes and getting ready to help the flood of
newbies that we are about to see. I sure hope this theme disappears from
the ng soon.
I think that the best way to address the disappointments and concerns
about this whole issue of the freebie is to give feedback directly to the
Vista team at (e-mail address removed) or indirectly through one of the many
feedback url's on microsoft.com. All we are doing here is taking in each
other's wash.
Mr. Vista said:What's interesting is that you now claim "I don't expect anything in
return from Microsoft", however you previously wrote:
"I did suggest via the Vista feedback system, that discounts/free
copies
should be rewarded based on number of verified/unique bug reports
submited. Rewarding those who provide good feedback rather than
those
lucky enough to get selected, but can't be bothered..."
Considering that you submitted "at least 100 of these significant
bug reports" then surely such a reward system would reward you. and
yet you claim you "don't expect anything".
Sounds like a double standard to me... Mr. Gillepsie
Suggesting that rewards be given based on a certain criteria is _not_
contradictory to not expecting anything. Why can't you understand
the difference and understand that someone can feel that way? There
is a big difference between saying it would be nice to get a reward,
and saying I _expect_ something.
This is the main reason why these threads are started and continue -
a sad attitude of entitlement. Whether one participated in the CPP
or the Tech Beta nothing was promised either group. People should
have gone into it, and come out at the end knowing and feeling that
they were not entitled to anything, and so shouldn't expect anything.
After it was all over, the fact that one group of people in one
program based on an arbitrary criteria - and there has has to be
some threshold- were given something, is irrelevant. Because one
group is given something for free cannot be construed in any way as a
basis for claiming me too.
Every reward/bonus program I have ever seen has had this self
centered crying after the fact- poor me why didn't I get it. It's a
sad commentary.
What's with the underscores?.
Before you judge others as proclaiming "poor me why didn't I get it.
It's a sad commentary" and "a sad attitude of entitlement" you
*should* disclose that you are a member of the Technical Beta program
and were given a free copy of Vista.
Your one-sided selfish comments are hypocritical.
As I wrote originally whether it was promised or not, given or not, is
irrelevant. It is a _very_ sad era of entitlement and you exemplify
this. You cannot see the difference between suggesting and expecting,
between appreciating a gift and expecting something to be given.
Have you taken a course in circuitous argument?.
It's laughable that you declare that a "a sad attitude of entitlement"
exists when you are a recipient yourself.
As eloquently stated to Colin, "I have noticed that whenever a post that
supports the CPP bug submitters appears it is usually shot down by
Technical Beta Testers whom themselves received a 'reward' for their
contribution (in most cases justly so). To me it's a double standard,
though not in your [Colin's] case."
Just be happy with your free gift and don't be so bitter.