Windows Updates on a CD!

[Ionizer]

Same for me, but (hanging head) it's my primary system, a 300MHz AMD Win98
system.

Our PIII units are nothing to be ashamed of. They are as capable as they
ever were. My new system, a P4 2.8 with a top-of-the-line graphics card, is
really more than I know what to do with. Most of the time, it's like I've
got a Ferrari but I only use it for picking up groceries. For the past few
hours, I've been using my trusty PIII as a jukebox, with the tunes piped
into my home stereo. The house has been filled with music. Perhaps
dropping a huge hard drive into my old box will even give it a second life
as a multi-thousand CD music center.

My "main" computer has been sitting relatively idle for much of the day.

Regards,
Ian.

 

[Phred]

[...]

In the CDRW format, have you used Imation disks and results? I have had
good results with Imation CDR disks, have but not tried yet same in
rewritable format.

I've been using Imation CD_RW for routine daily backup for a couple of
years without problems. One disk lasts about 6 months to a year
before it's full, so only gets written about 20 to 50 times before
it's "retired" as I have one for each day of the week (and always copy
"yesterday" and "today" [ using good old XCOPY /s/d ;-) ] so I end up
with two copies of everything). Also been using those Imation CD_RWs
for my "Monthly" backups. So that's now another couple of dozen.

All that said, I've recently switched to Imation CDRs formatted for
"drag and drop" etc. from Windows/DOS stuff as someone in one of the
cdrom newsgroups must have convinced me that was a more reliable way
to go. The main problem with this is that these CDRs can't be
read on other machines that don't have appropriate software installed
whereas the CD_RWs can be.


Cheers, Phred.

 

[Greg Hanson]

Shel: Don't hang your head.
Beating planned obsolescence is almost impossible.

This one is only 533 MHz.
I suspect Win 98SE runs very nicely on one
of the newer processors that is 5 or 6 times faster.

Am I unduly prejudiced to feel that newer versions
of Windows might take a faster processor and drag
it down a bit with even more overhead?

Wouldn't it also be wise to add patches
to cope with future >120 Gig Hard disks ?

Are there any timing glitches created by
running Win 98SE on the newer faster CPU's?

PS - When it was announced that W98 will soon
not be supported, the media mentioned that
that represents 10% of all computer users.

But you might be AMAZED at how many computers
are still running Windows 95!
I've been in some businesses that still run
lots of W95 on networks!

 

[Vic Dura]

On 20 Dec 2003 02:40:50 -0800, RE: Re: Windows Updates on a CD!

"This special security update CD will benefit customers with slower
dial-up Internet connections and those customers who do not regularly
visit the Microsoft Web site to download security updates,"

That's me. I'm at 48k bps on a good day, 28k on most days.

That's life in the rural south. BroadBand? Folks around here think
that's some sort of country western group.

 

[olfart]

[...]

In the CDRW format, have you used Imation disks and results? I have had
good results with Imation CDR disks, have but not tried yet same in
rewritable format.

I've been using Imation CD_RW for routine daily backup for a couple of
years without problems. One disk lasts about 6 months to a year
before it's full, so only gets written about 20 to 50 times before
it's "retired" as I have one for each day of the week (and always copy
"yesterday" and "today" [ using good old XCOPY /s/d ;-) ] so I end up
with two copies of everything). Also been using those Imation CD_RWs
for my "Monthly" backups. So that's now another couple of dozen.

All that said, I've recently switched to Imation CDRs formatted for
"drag and drop" etc. from Windows/DOS stuff as someone in one of the
cdrom newsgroups must have convinced me that was a more reliable way
to go. The main problem with this is that these CDRs can't be
read on other machines that don't have appropriate software installed
whereas the CD_RWs can be.


Cheers, Phred.

You can download UDF Reader from the Roxio site - put it on a floppy
and install it on the other machines

 

[Phred]

[...]

In the CDRW format, have you used Imation disks and results? I have had
good results with Imation CDR disks, have but not tried yet same in
rewritable format.

I've been using Imation CD_RW for routine daily backup for a couple of
years without problems. One disk lasts about 6 months to a year
before it's full, so only gets written about 20 to 50 times before
it's "retired" as I have one for each day of the week (and always copy
"yesterday" and "today" [ using good old XCOPY /s/d ;-) ] so I end up
with two copies of everything). Also been using those Imation CD_RWs
for my "Monthly" backups. So that's now another couple of dozen.

All that said, I've recently switched to Imation CDRs formatted for
"drag and drop" etc. from Windows/DOS stuff as someone in one of the
cdrom newsgroups must have convinced me that was a more reliable way
to go. The main problem with this is that these CDRs can't be
read on other machines that don't have appropriate software installed
whereas the CD_RWs can be.

You can download UDF Reader from the Roxio site - put it on a floppy
and install it on the other machines

So you can, but I kept getting various error messages and pages
refusing to load, until I stumbled on this page:

<quoting>
Software Updates Download:
Dear Roxio customer, Roxio.com now requires that you create a profile
with us so that we can better serve your future needs. Your login
profile stores all the information that you might need on our site, so
you won't have to retype it when you visit us again.
</quoting>

Isn't it amazing. They *require* me to list my biography with them so
*they* can "better serve" *my* needs! Companies are doing this sort
of nonsense all the time these days. No thought to letting the
customer decide whether they want or need that "better service".


Cheers, Phred.

 

[John Corliss]

[...]

In the CDRW format, have you used Imation disks and results? I have had
good results with Imation CDR disks, have but not tried yet same in
rewritable format.

I've been using Imation CD_RW for routine daily backup for a couple of
years without problems. One disk lasts about 6 months to a year
before it's full, so only gets written about 20 to 50 times before
it's "retired" as I have one for each day of the week (and always copy
"yesterday" and "today" [ using good old XCOPY /s/d ;-) ] so I end up
with two copies of everything). Also been using those Imation CD_RWs
for my "Monthly" backups. So that's now another couple of dozen.

All that said, I've recently switched to Imation CDRs formatted for
"drag and drop" etc. from Windows/DOS stuff as someone in one of the
cdrom newsgroups must have convinced me that was a more reliable way
to go. The main problem with this is that these CDRs can't be
read on other machines that don't have appropriate software installed
whereas the CD_RWs can be.

My error messages and failed formats were on a Plextor. The error
messages occured when I tried to erase the CDRW and then rewrite on
them more than two or three times. I contacted my computer vendor and
they sent me a newer model replacement Plextor. It failed miserably
also. Are you sure you're refering to using CDRWs with a UDF format?
At the best, I was never able to successfully UDF format more than 4
out of a five pack, and usually the number was less. Much less
actually copy something to them. Then, when I actually DO succeed in
copying something to them, when I later try to access the data, there
is often a "read failure".

I stand by my assessement and recommendation to use only CDR and ISO,
but of course YMMV.

 

[Phred]

In the CDRW format, have you used Imation disks and results? I have had
good results with Imation CDR disks, have but not tried yet same in
rewritable format.

I've been using Imation CD_RW for routine daily backup for a couple of
years without problems. One disk lasts about 6 months to a year
before it's full, so only gets written about 20 to 50 times before
it's "retired" as I have one for each day of the week (and always copy
"yesterday" and "today" [ using good old XCOPY /s/d ;-) ] so I end up
with two copies of everything). Also been using those Imation CD_RWs
for my "Monthly" backups. So that's now another couple of dozen.

All that said, I've recently switched to Imation CDRs formatted for
"drag and drop" etc. from Windows/DOS stuff as someone in one of the
cdrom newsgroups must have convinced me that was a more reliable way
to go. The main problem with this is that these CDRs can't be
read on other machines that don't have appropriate software installed
whereas the CD_RWs can be.

My error messages and failed formats were on a Plextor. The error
messages occured when I tried to erase the CDRW and then rewrite on
them more than two or three times. I contacted my computer vendor and
they sent me a newer model replacement Plextor. It failed miserably
also. Are you sure you're refering to using CDRWs with a UDF format?

I have to admit I'm slightly confused by the terminology.

I started out using Imation CD_RWs formatted in the default fashion by
Adaptec DirectCD 3.01d_D5 (i.e. a Dell-installed OEM version). No
problems with them that way.

Later, I listened to blokes in comp.publish.cdrom.hardware and I
*thought* they were saying such CD_RWs are unreliable and normal CD_Rs
formatted UDF were much better. So I have switched over. No problems
there either. [These are also a default DirectCD format -- just stick
the blank CD_R into the drive and it pops up to ask what you want to
do. Tell it to format for drag and drop, and Bob's your uncle! But
you can't read these on another machine without a UDF reader installed
whereas there's no such problem with the CD_RWs.]

Where I *do* have problems with my Sony CRX140E is writing
"conventional" data CD_Rs -- i.e. using Adaptec ECDC 4.02d to back up
stuff, or make back ups of other CDs using the "Copy" function. [The
latter tends to be more problematic.]

At the best, I was never able to successfully UDF format more than 4
out of a five pack, and usually the number was less. Much less
actually copy something to them. Then, when I actually DO succeed in
copying something to them, when I later try to access the data, there
is often a "read failure".

I stand by my assessement and recommendation to use only CDR and ISO,
but of course YMMV

Cheers, Phred.

 

[Helen]

[...]

In the CDRW format, have you used Imation disks and results? I have had
good results with Imation CDR disks, have but not tried yet same in
rewritable format.

I've been using Imation CD_RW for routine daily backup for a couple of
years without problems. One disk lasts about 6 months to a year
before it's full, so only gets written about 20 to 50 times before
it's "retired" as I have one for each day of the week (and always copy
"yesterday" and "today" [ using good old XCOPY /s/d ;-) ] so I end up
with two copies of everything). Also been using those Imation CD_RWs
for my "Monthly" backups. So that's now another couple of dozen.

All that said, I've recently switched to Imation CDRs formatted for
"drag and drop" etc. from Windows/DOS stuff as someone in one of the
cdrom newsgroups must have convinced me that was a more reliable way
to go. The main problem with this is that these CDRs can't be
read on other machines that don't have appropriate software installed
whereas the CD_RWs can be.


Cheers, Phred.

You can download UDF Reader from the Roxio site - put it on a floppy
and install it on the other machines

What I do is to just copy UDF Reader (it's a small file) right onto the
CD..just in case.
So far, it works fine. Also, how you close it makes a difference. You
must make sure
you close it to be read on ANY CD Rom reader rather than only those with
UDF. But
I've found the above mention tactic to work fine. BTW, not all CD-RW's
are readable
on ALL machines. They all have their quirks. But the method used to
close it matters.

Helen

 

[smh]

.. --------------------------------------
Mike Richter, were you born with
"Scam Artist" emblazoned on your face?
--------------------------------------
(Mike Richter, any Material Connection w/ Roxio?)

http://groups.google.com/[email protected]
(Messages 10, 12 -- 34, 54 -- 69)

( No pipsqueaks have been able to prove ANY of the above is a libel )
( -- despite Mikey's supposed to have proof of misquotes! )

I have to admit I'm slightly confused by the terminology.

I started out using Imation CD_RWs formatted in the default fashion by
Adaptec DirectCD 3.01d_D5 (i.e. a Dell-installed OEM version). No
problems with them that way.

Later, I listened to blokes in comp.publish.cdrom.hardware and I
*thought* they were saying such CD_RWs are unreliable and normal CD_Rs
formatted UDF were much better.

Some in these cdr groups swear by the following:

cd-rw is less reliable than cd-r, thus cd-rw is unreliable
cd-rw is the least reliable media, thus cd-rw is unreliable

Packet writing is less reliable than mastering,
thus packet writing is unreliable

Packet writing is the least reliable format,
thus packet writing is unreliable

DirectCD bugs translate into unreliability of cd-rw media
DirectCD bugs translate into the faults of packet writing

 

[smh]

.. --------------------------------------
Mike Richter, were you born with
"Scam Artist" emblazoned on your face?
--------------------------------------
(Mike Richter, any Material Connection w/ Roxio?)

http://groups.google.com/[email protected]
(Messages 10, 12 -- 34, 54 -- 69)

( No pipsqueaks have been able to prove ANY of the above is a libel )
( -- despite Mikey's supposed to have proof of misquotes! )

I have to admit I'm slightly confused by the terminology.

I started out using Imation CD_RWs formatted in the default fashion by
Adaptec DirectCD 3.01d_D5 (i.e. a Dell-installed OEM version). No
problems with them that way.

Later, I listened to blokes in comp.publish.cdrom.hardware and I
*thought* they were saying such CD_RWs are unreliable and normal CD_Rs
formatted UDF were much better.

Once upon a time, Take Two, supposedly a backup software, cannot live
without packet writing. For Take Two to work * IDEALLY *, it must use
supposedly *inherently* flaky, fragile, faulty, unreliable packet
writing format!

Moreover, the supposedly *inherently* flaky, fragile, faulty, unreliable
packet writing format was good enough for BACKUP, even when combined
with supposedly *inherently* flaky, fragile, forgetful, unreliable cd-rw
media!

=======================
From: Mike Richter (Acraptec Shill)
Subject: A note on Take Two
Date: 9/1/99

For Take Two to work ideally, your drive must support
packet writing and you must have DCD installed...to do it.

You may back up ... to a DCD-formatted erasable.
=======================

But then when the reports of DirectCD bugs started pouring in, the SAME
combination of packet writing format and cd-rw media -- that was good
enough for BACKUP -- became LETHAL for archiving:

=====================
From: Mike Richter (cRoxio Shill)
Subject: Re: File Integrity Errors - DirectCD Bug?
Date: 10/15/01

Combining the flaky UDF fixed-length packets with
the tendency of erasables (particularly HS) to forget
is LETHAL for archiving.
=====================

 

[Helen]

Kevin Posted:

OK, this is what I do...

I do not use DirectCD or InCD as I want to have as little baggage to
support reading the CD as possible. I wrote a batch file and use a
freeware program called CreateCD which is a command line utility to
burn CDs. The catch is that it runs only under Windows XP and it uses
Windows XP built-in CD burning capability. I erase the entire disk
each time and back up my data to it. The batch file does other things
like attempting to make data backups to/from another system on my home
network (so I have multiple copies of the backups stored
independently). I use a re-writable CD and have been using this batch
file for several months (since May) without a problem. The batch runs
every day. I'm estimating that a single CD-RW will last roughly 18
months this way. Doing it this way allows pretty much any other CD
reader to read the CD with no additional software installed.

http://isorecorder.alexfeinman.com/CreateCD.htm

GREAT! That sounds like a winner. Now If there were one for Win98 that
would be very good. However, that not being the case, I have to work with
what I have. And formatting them to drag and drop, copying the UDF Reader
file and leaving them 'as is' (until time to close them), then upon closing,
closing them to be read on any CD-Rom works here. Thanks for the link
though. IIRC the UDF reader is about 540Kb.

Helen

 

[Kevin Davis³]

[...]

In the CDRW format, have you used Imation disks and results? I have had
good results with Imation CDR disks, have but not tried yet same in
rewritable format.

I've been using Imation CD_RW for routine daily backup for a couple of
years without problems. One disk lasts about 6 months to a year
before it's full, so only gets written about 20 to 50 times before
it's "retired" as I have one for each day of the week (and always copy
"yesterday" and "today" [ using good old XCOPY /s/d ;-) ] so I end up
with two copies of everything). Also been using those Imation CD_RWs
for my "Monthly" backups. So that's now another couple of dozen.

All that said, I've recently switched to Imation CDRs formatted for
"drag and drop" etc. from Windows/DOS stuff as someone in one of the
cdrom newsgroups must have convinced me that was a more reliable way
to go. The main problem with this is that these CDRs can't be
read on other machines that don't have appropriate software installed
whereas the CD_RWs can be.


Cheers, Phred.

You can download UDF Reader from the Roxio site - put it on a floppy
and install it on the other machines

What I do is to just copy UDF Reader (it's a small file) right onto the
CD..just in case.
So far, it works fine. Also, how you close it makes a difference. You
must make sure
you close it to be read on ANY CD Rom reader rather than only those with
UDF. But
I've found the above mention tactic to work fine. BTW, not all CD-RW's
are readable
on ALL machines. They all have their quirks. But the method used to
close it matters.

Helen

OK, this is what I do...

I do not use DirectCD or InCD as I want to have as little baggage to
support reading the CD as possible. I wrote a batch file and use a
freeware program called CreateCD which is a command line utility to
burn CDs. The catch is that it runs only under Windows XP and it uses
Windows XP built-in CD burning capability. I erase the entire disk
each time and back up my data to it. The batch file does other things
like attempting to make data backups to/from another system on my home
network (so I have multiple copies of the backups stored
independently). I use a re-writable CD and have been using this batch
file for several months (since May) without a problem. The batch runs
every day. I'm estimating that a single CD-RW will last roughly 18
months this way. Doing it this way allows pretty much any other CD
reader to read the CD with no additional software installed.

http://isorecorder.alexfeinman.com/CreateCD.htm

 

[Richard Steven Hack]

PS - When it was announced that W98 will soon
not be supported, the media mentioned that
that represents 10% of all computer users.

But you might be AMAZED at how many computers
are still running Windows 95!
I've been in some businesses that still run
lots of W95 on networks!

According to a recent survey, some 39 percent of Windows users still
use Windows 95, 98 and NT. Over 50% use Windows 2000. Only about
6.6% use Windows XP. And Windows 2003 Server is not selling well.

On the other hand, 2000 is apparently more stable than 95 or 98 and
any company still running Windows 95 or 98 should be looking to shift
to Linux if they can't afford upgrading to 2000 because the upgrade
costs are only going to get worse when Longhorn comes out in 2005 or
2006.

 

[Mike]

In a perfect world, we could all run whatever operating system we wanted.
Unfortunately, that world is somewhere else.

Hardware requirements leave with the choice of 98 or Me - and I won't touch
Me with a barge pole - or running something from the server side of the
windows family (2000 etc). My processor and RAM will not support XP, the
motherboard will not support more RAM, and it all costs $$$ that I don't
have.

That to me is why ending the product support for 98 is the biggest mistake
MS has made to date - because they are assuming that everyone can upgrade
their systems at will, and it just ain't the case. My intention is to wait
for Longhorn - which looks way better than XP already - and then upgrade
both hardware and software.

Mike

 

[John Fitzsimons]

On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 00:50:06 GMT, Kevin Davis³

Sorry for the (OT) but I thought this might also interest others here.

I saw Helen's post as follows ;

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 20:15:50 -0000
Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>

BEFORE this one she was replying to.

That means that this post was made "in the future" or her post was
made "in the past". One/both of them have their PC clock/time zone
set incorrectly.

How does one work out which post has the incorrect time stamp ?

Regards, John.

 

[NoNaMe]

I received my 2 cd,s from Microsoft Sydney aust__ no big deal and were
delivered within 3 weeks __there is no charge and even posted to you
free_____the updates are for your own O/Sys it picks it out automaticaly
With kind regards From WillofAustralia Victoria.

 

[John Corliss]

I received my 2 cd,s from Microsoft Sydney aust__ no big deal and were
delivered within 3 weeks __there is no charge and even posted to you
free_____the updates are for your own O/Sys it picks it out automaticaly
With kind regards From WillofAustralia Victoria.

I'd be curious to know whether or not those updates forceably install
digital rights management (DRM) on your system.

 

[default]

I'd be curious to know whether or not those updates forceably install
digital rights management (DRM) on your system.

I'd like to chime in too. Has anyone installed the security updates
from M$ and do they allow you to ignore the things you don't want to
install?

I'm using ME and have the update, but from reading the install screens
it sounds as if the CD will install every "update." I want to keep
Internet explorer and Windows Media Player from installing (they are
on the disk).

Paranoid about the DRM MS is pushing. Beware trojans bearing gifts.

 

[Paul Blarmy]

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:18:19 -0400, default wrote...

I'd like to chime in too. Has anyone installed the security updates
from M$ and do they allow you to ignore the things you don't want to
install?

Just tried it out on two machines at work today - one Win98SE, the other
WinME.

Went to the Windows update site first and was told that 17 critical
updates were required for the 98SE box and 20 for the ME.

After using the CD, went back to Windows update and found that 3 updates
were still needed for both machines. Three 'biggies' as well totalling
nearly 10MB. From memory there was one specific to IE, one for OE and the
other was a Java Virtual Machine patch.

I'm using ME and have the update, but from reading the install screens
it sounds as if the CD will install every "update." I want to keep
Internet explorer and Windows Media Player from installing (they are
on the disk).

The first thing the CD did was to install IE6 (latest) and Media Player
9. I didn't get a choice as to whether I wanted them or not.

The above was all as a result of letting the CD autorun itself. I will
try on another work machine soon to bypass the autorun to see if updates
can be run directly.