Where Linux Beats Vista : CPU Temperatures - ACPI Thermal Zones

  • Thread starter Thread starter Robert wilkens
  • Start date Start date
POOF
lol-just remindin me of old days Colin.
POOF- what Vista betas did to some XP drivers-POOF
lol

Jeff
 
Robert wilkens said:
Windows Vista has my CPU running as high as 84 degrees celsius
during normal operation (65 degrees is the 'alarm' temperature). I
imagine it gets even higher because when I do things like install MS
Office 2007 it gets to the point where the system just powers off
instantly.

I decided to try comparing it to Linux, and boy was I surprised, I
have a feature in the Linux Kernel turned on call "ACPI Thermal
Zones" which is keeping my CPU at a constant opreating temperature
of 40 degrees in Linux, if I'm reading it right.
Click to expand...

You have a hardware problem.

Thermal Zones is a processor speed reduction program - if the app
detects a high CPU or temp, it slows your processor to reduce heat.
That indicates to me you have a serious thermal issue, and likely your
heatsink is not properly mounted or you have way too much thermal
paste slapped on the CPU (should be a very thin layer).
40 degrees versus 84 degrees.
operating normally versus overheating and dying.
Click to expand...

Running Vista right now my AMD x2 3800+ which is overclocked 25% to
2500MHz, is running at a cool 33-34' in this room. During the hot
summer months, it idles at 35-36'.
 
robw,

Clearly, you understand the bit on Asus motherboards and their overvolting,
correct? If I were you, I would install a program such as the AMD cpu
information utilities that tell you the current operating voltage of your
CPU, and then look up the specifications for the CPU.

I have an Asus motherboard that overvolts CPUs by 0.08 volts. We put a 1.40v
Athlon 64 into the board, and every program read it as 1.48v. It was
drastically overheating. We had to use a seperate utility to lower the
voltage of the CPU. Once we did that, the CPU dropped to normal
temperatures.

No, you don't have an nforce2 motherboard.

Please do not cry about Windows versus linux with this one. More or less,
you have a motherboard that is "built for overclockers", because some retard
at Asus seems to think that every person buying their boards overclock the
CPUs.
 
robw said:
Tell ya what.. I'll replace the heat sink paste tomorrow and relatch the
heat sink (I believe a local store carries the paste)..

Until I do that, you can all ignore me like the idiot you think I am (I
wouldn't necessarily say you're wrong at this point either).

However, I still say "If Linux can deal with my apparently poor hardware
building skills, why not Windows?"

-Rob
Click to expand...
Try this:
Open your case and with Vista then linux running (3-5mins each) stick a
thermometer on the base of the heat sink for about 30 seconds (same
place for each os) and let us know the readings.
Frank
 
Amusing too when the wiki posted says the support is for nforce2. lol ..
ummm, socket A motherboards can't run 64bit cpus. Thermal Zone is just linux
has support for amd's cool n' quiet and amd has yet to put out Vista
drivers. Open source community just wrote their own for linux.
 
Ah, don't worry. I won't attack you. Just trying to help.

The EULA also states that the reason that part of it is in french is because
that version (English) is sold in Canada, which does have french speaking
inhabitants. To be fair, they provide part of it in french as well. But that
is really meaningless to us.

--
/* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Robert Firth *
* Windows Vista x86 RTM *
* http://www.WinVistaInfo.org *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * */
 
I'd buy that argument.

There are settings for over/under clocking in the BIOS but I could've sworn
I disabled them.

-Rob
 
To be honest, I believe a lack of thermal paste was the problem with Windows
Vista. I'll hopefully know later today. (NOTE: When I built this system, I
don't remember using thermal paste; and no this isn't the first AMD64 system
I've built, and yes I specifically remember using it on the other system,
but no I'm not about to install Vista on that system.)

Incredible, I come to a Vista Operating System support group, tell them,
honestly, in Linux it "stays cool" (a.k.a. "doesnt' do anything", apparently
even when building a kernel, which without thermal zones was enough to crash
Linux exactly like Windows crashes when it oveheats), and they tell me it's
the hardware.

Then they have the nerve to tell me linux isn't as sensitive as windows,
meanwhile windows 'keeps running' when it's 20 degrees above high operating
temperatures which is the area where the cpu begins to break down if I
understand properly.

Right now, this a.m. windows is idling at 53 degrees, but as soon as I start
typing it shoots up over 65, then calms back down _quickly_ to 53-54
degrees.

Please don't misunderstand me, Vista might crash when I'm installing Office
2007 because of this, but there are times I can go a week or two without a
crash thereby keeping usage low. It's still overheating, it's just not
failing.

-Rob
 
Well, I believe it said nforce2-based-motherboards. I think nforce2 is a
chipset, not a socket. I also belive, perhaps wrongly, that my motherboard
suppports both AMD and Nvidia (SLI) technologies so I don't think it's far
fetched to believe that it's 'amd' and 'nvidia' based.

-Rob
 
Odd, Linux has these neat visual effects (Compiz), and to stress test the
cpu i was doing a kernel recompile (not something that has to be done often,
but... for testing purposes it's a good stress test because when I turned
off that thermal zone support, linux would crash just like windows does when
I stress test it by installing Office 2K7.)

-Rob
 
I would do that if I had a manual thermometer laying around, and
unfortunaely I don't. If the heat sink paste doesn't fix it, though, that's
my next step.

-Rob
 
Not to start a war, but.. (Now that i've set it up) I can run World of
Warcraft in Linux. In Windows on the same machine it hick-ups and burps.

-Rob
 
it makes a HUGE difference in temp on which power scheme you have selected.

sounds like you most likely have POWER mode selected.
if so, then try Balanced.
Power saver restricts cpu to 50%.



(e-mail address removed)



Windows Vista has my CPU running as high as 84 degrees celsius during normal
operation (65 degrees is the 'alarm' temperature). I imagine it gets even
higher because when I do things like install MS Office 2007 it gets to the
point where the system just powers off instantly.

I decided to try comparing it to Linux, and boy was I surprised, I have a
feature in the Linux Kernel turned on call "ACPI Thermal Zones" which is
keeping my CPU at a constant opreating temperature of 40 degrees in Linux,
if I'm reading it right.

40 degrees versus 84 degrees.
operating normally versus overheating and dying.

That's the difference between Linux and Vista.

Incidentally, if I turn off thermal zones in the linux kernel, I have the
same instant 'power off' problems in Linux. I'm glad Linux offers thermal
zones support. I'm sorry to say it appears microsoft does not support this
(unless I'm "missing a driver" though for something this critical that would
seem hard to believe).

-Rob
 
Maybe true, but half the problem was I was looking at the wrong sensor in Linux. If i turned on the right sensor, I was getting in the same temperature 'area' as Windows (well, 59 degrees anyway). It's definitely my hardware config.

I'll crawl back into my hole for a little bit :{ .. Sorry guys.

-Rob

it makes a HUGE difference in temp on which power scheme you have selected.

sounds like you most likely have POWER mode selected.
if so, then try Balanced.
Power saver restricts cpu to 50%.



(e-mail address removed)



Windows Vista has my CPU running as high as 84 degrees celsius during normal
operation (65 degrees is the 'alarm' temperature). I imagine it gets even
higher because when I do things like install MS Office 2007 it gets to the
point where the system just powers off instantly.

I decided to try comparing it to Linux, and boy was I surprised, I have a
feature in the Linux Kernel turned on call "ACPI Thermal Zones" which is
keeping my CPU at a constant opreating temperature of 40 degrees in Linux,
if I'm reading it right.

40 degrees versus 84 degrees.
operating normally versus overheating and dying.

That's the difference between Linux and Vista.

Incidentally, if I turn off thermal zones in the linux kernel, I have the
same instant 'power off' problems in Linux. I'm glad Linux offers thermal
zones support. I'm sorry to say it appears microsoft does not support this
(unless I'm "missing a driver" though for something this critical that would
seem hard to believe).

-Rob
 
At least you found the issue.

Don't hesitate to ask for help again if it's needed.


Bill F.
Maybe true, but half the problem was I was looking at the wrong sensor in Linux. If i turned on the right sensor, I was getting in the same temperature 'area' as Windows (well, 59 degrees anyway). It's definitely my hardware config.

I'll crawl back into my hole for a little bit :{ .. Sorry guys.

-Rob

it makes a HUGE difference in temp on which power scheme you have selected.

sounds like you most likely have POWER mode selected.
if so, then try Balanced.
Power saver restricts cpu to 50%.



(e-mail address removed)



Windows Vista has my CPU running as high as 84 degrees celsius during normal
operation (65 degrees is the 'alarm' temperature). I imagine it gets even
higher because when I do things like install MS Office 2007 it gets to the
point where the system just powers off instantly.

I decided to try comparing it to Linux, and boy was I surprised, I have a
feature in the Linux Kernel turned on call "ACPI Thermal Zones" which is
keeping my CPU at a constant opreating temperature of 40 degrees in Linux,
if I'm reading it right.

40 degrees versus 84 degrees.
operating normally versus overheating and dying.

That's the difference between Linux and Vista.

Incidentally, if I turn off thermal zones in the linux kernel, I have the
same instant 'power off' problems in Linux. I'm glad Linux offers thermal
zones support. I'm sorry to say it appears microsoft does not support this
(unless I'm "missing a driver" though for something this critical that would
seem hard to believe).

-Rob
 
Thank You for your understanding.

p.s. Half my problem I found when I applied the thermal compound (arctic silver) : Apparently when I put the Heat Sink on, I left the plastic packaging on the bottom of the heat sink ;-).

As the people on the linux list where I got the help solving my sensor problems (and recommended arctic silver) have told me:

"Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement".

-Rob
At least you found the issue.

Don't hesitate to ask for help again if it's needed.


Bill F.
Maybe true, but half the problem was I was looking at the wrong sensor in Linux. If i turned on the right sensor, I was getting in the same temperature 'area' as Windows (well, 59 degrees anyway). It's definitely my hardware config.

I'll crawl back into my hole for a little bit :{ .. Sorry guys.

-Rob

it makes a HUGE difference in temp on which power scheme you have selected.

sounds like you most likely have POWER mode selected.
if so, then try Balanced.
Power saver restricts cpu to 50%.



(e-mail address removed)



Windows Vista has my CPU running as high as 84 degrees celsius during normal
operation (65 degrees is the 'alarm' temperature). I imagine it gets even
higher because when I do things like install MS Office 2007 it gets to the
point where the system just powers off instantly.

I decided to try comparing it to Linux, and boy was I surprised, I have a
feature in the Linux Kernel turned on call "ACPI Thermal Zones" which is
keeping my CPU at a constant opreating temperature of 40 degrees in Linux,
if I'm reading it right.

40 degrees versus 84 degrees.
operating normally versus overheating and dying.

That's the difference between Linux and Vista.

Incidentally, if I turn off thermal zones in the linux kernel, I have the
same instant 'power off' problems in Linux. I'm glad Linux offers thermal
zones support. I'm sorry to say it appears microsoft does not support this
(unless I'm "missing a driver" though for something this critical that would
seem hard to believe).

-Rob
 
No problem Rob, thats what we are here for.

If it makes you feel any better, when I got my first AMD system, I put it all together, powered it up only to hear something pop and smoke pour out of my system.

I forgot to put my heatsink/fan on the CPU.

These were the days before AMD had a temp cutoff in the CPU...

$340 down the drain right quick.


Bill F.
Thank You for your understanding.

p.s. Half my problem I found when I applied the thermal compound (arctic silver) : Apparently when I put the Heat Sink on, I left the plastic packaging on the bottom of the heat sink ;-).

As the people on the linux list where I got the help solving my sensor problems (and recommended arctic silver) have told me:

"Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement".

-Rob
At least you found the issue.

Don't hesitate to ask for help again if it's needed.


Bill F.
Maybe true, but half the problem was I was looking at the wrong sensor in Linux. If i turned on the right sensor, I was getting in the same temperature 'area' as Windows (well, 59 degrees anyway). It's definitely my hardware config.

I'll crawl back into my hole for a little bit :{ .. Sorry guys.

-Rob

it makes a HUGE difference in temp on which power scheme you have selected.

sounds like you most likely have POWER mode selected.
if so, then try Balanced.
Power saver restricts cpu to 50%.



(e-mail address removed)



Windows Vista has my CPU running as high as 84 degrees celsius during normal
operation (65 degrees is the 'alarm' temperature). I imagine it gets even
higher because when I do things like install MS Office 2007 it gets to the
point where the system just powers off instantly.

I decided to try comparing it to Linux, and boy was I surprised, I have a
feature in the Linux Kernel turned on call "ACPI Thermal Zones" which is
keeping my CPU at a constant opreating temperature of 40 degrees in Linux,
if I'm reading it right.

40 degrees versus 84 degrees.
operating normally versus overheating and dying.

That's the difference between Linux and Vista.

Incidentally, if I turn off thermal zones in the linux kernel, I have the
same instant 'power off' problems in Linux. I'm glad Linux offers thermal
zones support. I'm sorry to say it appears microsoft does not support this
(unless I'm "missing a driver" though for something this critical that would
seem hard to believe).

-Rob
 
Robert said:
I would do that if I had a manual thermometer laying around, and
unfortunaely I don't. If the heat sink paste doesn't fix it, though,
that's my next step.
Click to expand...

By using one instrument to measure the two temps you eliminate the
possibility of either the Vista or linux method of measuring being
incorrect.
Frank
 
Robert wilkens said:
Incredible, I come to a Vista Operating System support group, tell
them, honestly, in Linux it "stays cool" (a.k.a. "doesnt' do
anything", apparently even when building a kernel, which without
thermal zones was enough to crash Linux exactly like Windows crashes
when it oveheats), and they tell me it's the hardware.
Click to expand...

Of course it's the hardware.

:-)

Since Vista would have to peg the CPU at 100% process time to cause a
large heat increase, it becomes pretty obvious you have a hardware
problem since Vista doesn't do that. There are literally thousands and
thousands of people running Vista right now, and yours is the first
report I've ever seen even suggesting that Vista is the cause. I can
understand why you would think Vista caused it, but we know it's not a
logical explanation for your heat issues.

When running a CPU intensive app like Prime95 or BOINC projects, the
CPU should still be well below 60'C or so with proper cooling, and
depending on CPU type and heat dissipation.

Try asking the same question in the "alt.comp.hardware.amd.x86-64"
group and see what they say there about your setup. I'll bet you get
the same kind of responses since it sounds exactly like the hardware
issues I see all the time - an improperly mounted heatsink.
Right now, this a.m. windows is idling at 53 degrees, but as soon as
I start typing it shoots up over 65, then calms back down _quickly_
to 53-54 degrees.
Click to expand...

This is another clue - if it cools down as quickly as you seem to
suggest, you have a heat transfer issue. Contrary to what some people
may think about thermal transfer, temps will not rise and fall that
fast when proper thermal conditions are met, such as using a heatsink
that transfers heat from the CPU case. The CPU temp should rise
gradually and level off at peak temp, then gradually fall and level
off at idle temp - a gentle curve, not a sudden jump or drop.

If I were you, I'd turn off the computer right now and find out what's
wrong before you damage the CPU. At the very least, you need to check
the heatsink to ensure it's flush with the CPU.
 
electragician said:
It is odd that Linux runs cool and Vista doesn't.
Click to expand...

Which makes it unlikely to be down to heatsink placement...

I'd suspect drivers might be an issue. My test desktop machine runs hotter
under Vista than it does under XP (and Vista didn't support the "uGuru"
enviromental monitoring at the time) and my MacBook runs far hotter and
louder under Vista than it does under OS X when dual booting with boot camp.
 
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