What's the verdict on C# and Visual Studio .NET?

  • Thread starter Thread starter noid droid
  • Start date Start date
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noid droid

Hi.

I've not used C# yet but just ran across a premonition from 2 years ago
saying that C# would render C++ obsolete by this time. Has it?

Have most corporate developers migrated to C#? Is C++ used for new
development or just legacy apps? What about non corporate developers?

Microsoft really likes to hype the hell out of their stuff and often they
let it fall by the wayside. Like MFC.

What's the verdict on C#? Does it live up to the hype?

Also, I've seen quite a bit of negative comments about Visual Studio .NET.
A lot of people don't like the menus rolling out, and other I've read other
problems. I've even read comments by people who've said they downgraded to
VS 6. Whats the verdict on VS .NET?

Please let me know. If I here a lot of positive feedback, I'm going to
learn C# and actually use VS .NET. (I really liked VS 6).

noid
 
Hi Droid,

I started using C# about 3 1/2 years ago and never looked back. It is
a nice language that is quick to become productive with and VS.NET has
matured very well. You really should try it.

Joe
Click to expand...

OK, thanks for the feedback. I'm hoping for feedback from others.

Do you, or anyone else, have any recommendations as to what books would be
good to use to learn VC# and the VS .NET IDE? If I here a lot of good
feedback, I'll need a book.

I know VB, C++ and Visual Studio 6. I'm going to assume that C# is overall
pretty similar to C++. But I do need to learn the new .NET IDE as well.
I've got VS .NET 2003.

Thanks.
 
Please let me know. If I here a lot of positive feedback, I'm going to
learn C# and actually use VS .NET. (I really liked VS 6).
Click to expand...

Hi Droid,

I started using C# about 3 1/2 years ago and never looked back. It is a
nice language that is quick to become productive with and VS.NET has matured
very well. You really should try it.

Joe
 
Its more like java than C++



OK, thanks for the feedback. I'm hoping for feedback from others.

Do you, or anyone else, have any recommendations as to what books would be
good to use to learn VC# and the VS .NET IDE? If I here a lot of good
feedback, I'll need a book.

I know VB, C++ and Visual Studio 6. I'm going to assume that C# is overall
pretty similar to C++. But I do need to learn the new .NET IDE as well.
I've got VS .NET 2003.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
 
Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu said:
Actually of all the languages, it looks like Delphi with a C syntax to me. ;)
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more! Not only are some of C#'s syntatical additions
similar to some of Delphi's existing ones, but also the .NET framework
"seems" very similar to the VCL.
 
Most corporate developers, probably not. For new development, can't say,
but I see a steady increase in .Net jobs.
People tend to think .NET is Microsofts answer to Java and since .NET is
still Windows only, it can't fully compete with Java.

But to summarize a few points.
C# has a C++ style syntax, a Java style class system, and native Win32
speed (allocating memory is even faster under .NET)
You won't have to worry about memory management, giving you time to focus
on the actual progress of the coding.

The main drawback is that any program will use 16MB of memory just to
display an empty window.
Also, since you have no control of the garbage collector, time/performance
critical applications might find that it decides to run when you really
don't want it to. (In these cases you can actually turn it off (C#))

..NET applications do suffer a slight speed decrease compared to the
equivalent C/C++ application, but not as much as you might think. Unlike
Java, .NET is designed to benefit from the underlying system and is
closely tied to it, and as an example, a Direct3D application is only
about 3% slower under .NET compared to C++. The initial run of the
program will run slowly due to IL being translated to native code, but you
can precompile the program to native code if you like.

As for Visual Studio .NET, what can I say. I haven't tried VS6, but VS7
is incredible, and if you are going to invest in one expensive
application, VS7 is well worth it. Though you can code VB.NET/J#/C# just
by installing .NET framework and using the compilers installed with it,
VS7 enables you do make very complex applications in no time, and it's
IntelliSense is perhaps the single most important feature for that. It
enables you do get the full framework library (as well as your own code)
at your fingertips, while typing minimal information, thus ensuring less
typos. Then again, I haven't really tried anything else, so for all I
know there might even better software out there, but I believe VS7 is one
of Sun's major concerns regarding people migrating to .NET

There are plenty other benefits and drawbacks, but unless extreme
time/performance is critical there is no reason to choose C++ over C#, and
even if it is critical, the customer will quite likely prefer a safe
stable slightle slower program created well within the time limit, over a
fast, unsafe and unstable one, and long overdue.
 
C# Learner said:
I couldn't agree more! Not only are some of C#'s syntatical additions
similar to some of Delphi's existing ones, but also the .NET framework
"seems" very similar to the VCL.
Click to expand...

Yes. The more things change the more they stay the same for us. Unfortunately
still a few things missing. 1.1 got closer - one can hope 1.2/2.0 will
finally bring us "back" to what Delphi developers have been used to for
years.


--
Chad Z. Hower (a.k.a. Kudzu) - http://www.hower.org/Kudzu/
"Programming is an art form that fights back"


ELKNews - Get your free copy at http://www.atozedsoftware.com
 
Have most corporate developers migrated to C#? Is C++ used for new
development or just legacy apps? What about non corporate developers?
Click to expand...

We've been investigating .NET and C# during all of 2003, and in the
end, our top bosses have decided that all new development will be
started in C# (unless there's a very good reason not to - e.g. if the
interfacing to old legacy code - Cobol and C++ - would be too
time-consuming). But basically, it's C# from now on.
What's the verdict on C#? Does it live up to the hype?
Click to expand...

Yes - and then some. Not necessarily only C# which is the first
C-oriented language that I can more or less deal with - it's still not
as nice as Delphi ! - but it's mostly also the .NET framework which
provides a whole lot more power and is so much more easily accessible
than dealing with MFC and tons of different Win32 API's from C++.

And since .NET is definitely here to stay, I'd strongly recommend
getting your feet wet learning it - it won't harm you! Once you know
the .NET framework, a lot of others (like Delphi VCL, or Java's class
libraries) will all seem very comfortable and familiar - you can only
gain from getting to know .NET and C# !

Marc

================================================================
Marc Scheuner May The Source Be With You!
Bern, Switzerland m.scheuner(at)inova.ch
 
Basically if u want a job, do C# :D


Marc Scheuner said:
We've been investigating .NET and C# during all of 2003, and in the
end, our top bosses have decided that all new development will be
started in C# (unless there's a very good reason not to - e.g. if the
interfacing to old legacy code - Cobol and C++ - would be too
time-consuming). But basically, it's C# from now on.


Yes - and then some. Not necessarily only C# which is the first
C-oriented language that I can more or less deal with - it's still not
as nice as Delphi ! - but it's mostly also the .NET framework which
provides a whole lot more power and is so much more easily accessible
than dealing with MFC and tons of different Win32 API's from C++.

And since .NET is definitely here to stay, I'd strongly recommend
getting your feet wet learning it - it won't harm you! Once you know
the .NET framework, a lot of others (like Delphi VCL, or Java's class
libraries) will all seem very comfortable and familiar - you can only
gain from getting to know .NET and C# !

Marc

================================================================
Marc Scheuner May The Source Be With You!
Bern, Switzerland m.scheuner(at)inova.ch
Click to expand...
 
I couldn't agree more! Not only are some of C#'s syntatical additions
Yes. The more things change the more they stay the same for us. Unfortunately
still a few things missing. 1.1 got closer - one can hope 1.2/2.0 will
finally bring us "back" to what Delphi developers have been used to for
years.
Click to expand...
I also have a Delphi background and I too hope that next .NET version has
the same functionality that Delphi 1.0 had.

The biggest difference between C++ unmanaged code and C# is that in C++ I
used 90% of my time fighting search paths, linker errors and mysterious
compiler errors. No I use 90% of the time to develop very stable and
reusable programs. And 10% of the time to drink coffee. :-)

I the very beginning when I started using this .NET I had a very hard time
with some kind of dll hell, but it turned out to be the MFC dlls not the
..NET framework.
I used manged/unmanaged code.

One thing is for sure, C++ will stay a long time since a lot of developers
are still stuck to none-OOP programming and still use C++ in a C way.
Also MFC are in no way an object oriented library, it is just a wrapper
object around the windows functions, and they resist inheritance in all
possible ways unless you inherit with public: (CObject is the nightmare in
this). MFC programmes will have a hard time to adjust ot the OOP way of
thinking found in .NET.

Also another reason why C++ and MFC will stay a long time is because of the
codebase. It will take a very long time to port the code from MFC to .NET.

In my opinion, only people coming from school, and people like me, open for
new technology, will prefer .NET over MFC.
I am afraid that MFC and C++ will stay a long time.
 
Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu said:
Actually of all the languages, it looks like Delphi with a C syntax to me. ;)
Click to expand...

Figures. Both languages are designed by Anders Hejlsberg :-)

Ebbe
 
Marc Scheuner said:
C-oriented language that I can more or less deal with - it's still not
as nice as Delphi ! - but it's mostly also the .NET framework which
provides a whole lot more power and is so much more easily accessible
Click to expand...

Delphi 8 gives you both Delphi and .net. :)


--
Chad Z. Hower (a.k.a. Kudzu) - http://www.hower.org/Kudzu/
"Programming is an art form that fights back"


ELKNews - Get your free copy at http://www.atozedsoftware.com
 
Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu said:
Yes. The more things change the more they stay the same for us. Unfortunately
still a few things missing. 1.1 got closer - one can hope 1.2/2.0 will
finally bring us "back" to what Delphi developers have been used to for
years.
Click to expand...

I look forward to that.

For one thing -- I do feel a bit sorry for Borland. It's almost as if
Delphi has been stolen and repackaged by Microsoft (in my opinion).

Regards
 
C# Learner said:
I couldn't agree more! Not only are some of C#'s syntatical additions
similar to some of Delphi's existing ones, but also the .NET framework
"seems" very similar to the VCL.
Click to expand...

Very very similar. Many classes you could map the hierarchies 1:1.




--
Chad Z. Hower (a.k.a. Kudzu) - http://www.hower.org/Kudzu/
"Programming is an art form that fights back"


ELKNews - Get your free copy at http://www.atozedsoftware.com
 
Is Delphi a standard or propriety like VB and Java?
Click to expand...

Do you mean "an open standard or proprietary" ? The Delphi language
(Object pascal) is the latter, is a proprietary language derived from
Pascal.
 
C-oriented language that I can more or less deal with - it's still not
Delphi 8 gives you both Delphi and .net. :)
Click to expand...

I know - I like that !! :-)

Marc
================================================================
Marc Scheuner May The Source Be With You!
Bern, Switzerland m.scheuner(at)inova.ch
 
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