What to do with all the stupid and unnecessary "other/guest" user accounts and directories?

[thanatoid]

Hi Tim,

I've been meaning to update you on the "admin Vs. users" thing
with my XP install. Unfortunately I can not be as clear about
everything as I'd like to, because I did (of course - even
though I KNOW one shouldn't) do more than one thing at once and
since I'm not getting any younger, it is even more confusing. I
installed a little StartUp manager (the Mike Lin one - which I
was [later] glad to see was #1 in the list of "best startup
utils" somewhere, the 2nd being sysinternals Autoruns; I have
known and respected Russinovich's work for a long time so I
installed that one too, but I have yet to see what the one minor
change I made with it will cause, if anything).

Well, after running your reg file, the first thing I noticed was
that "E:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Start
Menu\Programs\Administrative Tools" remained where it was, even
though all the other start Menu items from "all users" were gone
- the problem is - and I really apologize for my stupidity - I
can't remember whether I had not moved them manually by that
time, or some of them, or none... Sigh... And that "Adm. Tools"
section is an exact copy of "E:\Documents and
Settings\Administrator\Start
Menu\Programs\SYSTEM\Accessories\Administrative Tools" (as you
can see I had by then tried to organize things a little).

The next thing was that (needless to say, not having studied the
deceptively obvious Mike Lin "Startup" program), I deleted the
four "all users" startup items (mainly because one of them was
giving me an "X is already running!" message at each startup).
Well, after deleting them from "all users" I found they were
(probably not to YOUR surprise) also gone from "current user" -
I guess the logic being that the current user (who may or may
not be the admin) is certainly one of "all users". IOW, there IS
a logic, albeit a MS logic at work here.

Anyway, I replaced the start up items (the hard way, manually -
I couldn't bring them back within the Startup program since I
just hit delete - it never having occurred to me to see what
happened if I right-clicked on an entry...).

Then I ran Autoruns and saw double entries for those startup
programs and deleted one of each of the pairs. Have not rebooted
XP since - I am very disorganized these days... Will be
rebooting into XP later on and will update you...

At this point I have a feeling I may have started to mess with
things too much too early and that your advice - while
deceptively simple - may be too advanced for me at this stage. I
wish I could get hold of an XP book where the logic behind the
'admin', 'all users' and 'current user' directories and startup
programs (etc.) is explained. I remember the first time I
installed XP I was utterly perplexed by TWO startup menus in
"start", and that's where it all began...

Anyway... Thank you very much for the help you have offered, I
will continue to work on this slowly. I have decided that
cleaning my drive of all the crap that has accumulated over the
years is the #1 priority so I am not spending as much time on my
"XP test install" as I really should be if I was as serious as I
thought I was... But I am more confused than serious...

Anyway, thanks /again/ and I'll leave it here for now...

t.

 

[Tim Meddick]

Perhaps the best thing for you to do, if you are getting inot ANY difficulty is this
;

Use the "Undo" reg-file I included, first of all.

Then logoff /logon again - *immidiately*


It is my advice that you get used to the Two "Start Menu" folders - rather than try
to attempt to modify them in any way.

You see - if a shortcut (or folder) appears in the both "All Users" and personal
"Start Menu" you still only see the ONE copy (of the shortcut or folder) in the
resultant Start Menu.

They have made it this way so that common programs that all users will use such as
Internet Explorer, can have jsut one copy of the shortcut in the "All Users" menu and
it will appear for every user in their Start Menu.

However, some programs you install you might want only yourself to be able to use
t. - In this case, all you have to do is make sure it appears ONLY in YOUR
profile's "Start Menu" folder and it will ONLY appear in YOUR Start Menu and no
other.

So here we have an example of a use of "personal Start Menu" folders for security
reasons.

On public PCs, for another example, they would have all the Admin Tools shortcuts
appear in the Administrator's profile "Start Menu" only - so that they would not
appear in the other users Start Menus.

Another reason for the "All Users" menu is so that all the shortcuts, that will be
common for all users, don't have to be repeated in all the other profile's Start Menu
folders - only the *differences* (only those shortcuts unique to a particular
profile) need appear in personal Start Menu folders. Else, the Start Menu will "fall
back" on the "All Users" menu.

For instance - "Windows Explorer" shortcut can appear once only in the "All Users"
menu and it will then appear in every Start Menu for all users.

It doesn't take long to work out how this setup can have it's advantages in not
having repeat copies of shortcuts in every user's Start Menu folder, and, how having
individual Start Menu folders, gives you more control and security over who sees what
in their menu.

I think the key here for you might be experimentation - I am sure it will not take
half as long as you think to master, if you give a little of your time to it...

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London.

 

[thanatoid]

Perhaps the best thing for you to do, if you are getting
inot ANY difficulty is this ;

Use the "Undo" reg-file I included, first of all.

I considered it, but nothing is really /wrong/ that I can tell,
just a little strange /overall/, except that one little utility
telling me it is already running - quite possibly the other
utils would tell me that too [and perhaps MANY programs] if the
authors had bothered to include this feature! And after all, all
it takes is a click on OK ( and I have "Push the Freakin'
Button" installed, too, so I just have to add am entry if I can
NOT get rid of the double-start...).

Then logoff /logon again - *immediately*
Right.

It is my advice that you get used to the Two "Start Menu"
folders - rather than try to attempt to modify them in any
way.
You see - if a shortcut (or folder) appears in the both
"All Users" and personal "Start Menu" you still only see
the ONE copy (of the shortcut or folder) in the resultant
Start Menu.

IIRC (and I may not) that's not what happened in my /first/ XP
test install, and that's what totally confused me. I had a
"startup" directory under "start" which I had added a few little
utils into, and then I had ANOTHER "startup" directory somewhere
under Admin tools or wherever - I forget - which had completely
different things in it. Something like that. I thought that was
just crazy - but maybe I should have given it a few days...

They have made it this way so that common programs that all
users will use such as Internet Explorer, can have jsut one
copy of the shortcut in the "All Users" menu and it will
appear for every user in their Start Menu.

Yes, I am /slowly/ beginning to understand the MS logic here.
Still (grr) WHY couldn't they have put in a simple "make this a
single-user computer" check box SOMEWHERE?

However, some programs you install you might want only
yourself to be able to use t. - In this case, all you
have to do is make sure it appears ONLY in YOUR profile's
"Start Menu" folder and it will ONLY appear in YOUR Start
Menu and no other.

AT least I don't have to worry about that - no one else ever
touches this computer and probably won't until I am dead, if
then. I am a kind of a solitary creature.

So here we have an example of a use of "personal Start
Menu" folders for security reasons.

Right, I understand that - but aren't MS aware that there are
people who use computers mainly because NO ONE will talk to them
in RL?

On public PCs, for another example, they would have all the
Admin Tools shortcuts appear in the Administrator's profile
"Start Menu" only - so that they would not appear in the
other users Start Menus.

Makes sense.

Another reason for the "All Users" menu is so that all the
shortcuts, that will be common for all users, don't have to
be repeated in all the other profile's Start Menu folders
- only the *differences* (only those shortcuts unique to a
particular profile) need appear in personal Start Menu
folders. Else, the Start Menu will "fall back" on the "All
Users" menu.

This is where I got freaked out - some things repeating, some
not, weird things happening if you move stuff... The 9x start
menu was SO simple to set up in comparison - and I DO have the
"classic" start menu enabled. And now that I have seen that it
gives you a lovely sub- "docs and sett's" tree of 3 bloated
redundant directories and you have to put/move/copy things
into/between one of three "startmenu" sections (directories) I
can understand why most people's XP "start" menus look like the
rat's nests that they are.

For instance - "Windows Explorer" shortcut can appear once
only in the "All Users" menu and it will then appear in
every Start Menu for all users.
It doesn't take long to work out how this setup can have
it's advantages in not having repeat copies of shortcuts in
every user's Start Menu folder, and, how having individual
Start Menu folders, gives you more control and security
over who sees what in their menu.

Yes, once you get out of over 15 years in the 9x mindset... Not
that easy...

I think the key here for you might be experimentation - I
am sure it will not take half as long as you think to
master, if you give a little of your time to it...

Yes, I just have to be a little patient - the funny thing it
REALLY doesn't matter, because as I may have mentioned, I only
need XP (for now anyway) because I want to digitalize some old
VHS tapes, and the card only works under XP, so I /really/
shouldn't try to set up the whole damn machine "just the way I
likes it" while I'm at it! Still, old habits die hard...

Thank you again for your help and words of encouragement, AND
for your patience.

 

[Tim Meddick]

You could just copy all the shortcuts from the "All Users" start menu into your
profile's Start Menu.

Transferring all the shortcuts across, like, all the links in Accessories\Games to
the corresponding Accessories\Games folder in your profile's Start Menu. -

Then delete all the shortcuts and sub-folders in the "All Users" menu and effectively
you WILL only have to worry about ONE Start Menu.

All you will have to worry about is when installing a new program - usually they
place their shortcuts into the "All Users" menu.

Alternatively - do it the other way round and transfer all the shortcuts to the "All
Users" menu and just use that.


If you download and install the small [free] microsoft program called TweakUI.exe -
there is a feature in there that enables you to change the location of "special"
folders (such as your Start Menu) so you could make it the same as the "All Users"
menu and just use that.


Download the small TweakUI installation file from the link below :

http://download.microsoft.com/downl...a6-b352-839afb2a2679/TweakUiPowertoySetup.exe

Double-click on the [downloaded] setup file and after it's installed type :
TweakUI.exe into the "Run" BOX or make a shortcut to :
c:\windows\system32\tweakui.exe and start it from that.

After you start TweakUI.exe, go to the item called "My Computer" > "Special Folders"
then choose "Start Menu" from the drop-down list and click on the "Change Location"
button.


There's loads of other groovy stuff you can "Tweak" with it as well - hours of fun!

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London.

 

[Tim Meddick]

If you love TweakUI (the old "control panel" version as well as the newer XP ".exe"
version)

I still use the older (cpl) versions as well as the new XP one.

Some of the functions are the same and are easier to find in the old one.

If you liked TweakUI then you should also like FreshUI !!

Now here is an application that really *does* need a "search" function.

Despite all this - it's still a brilliant program, and, especially if you like
TweakUI, because it's really just an extension of it.


FreshUI is available [free] from www.freshdevices.com/freshui.html

Follow the various links and input your email address to receive the free
registration code.

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London.

You could just copy all the shortcuts from the "All Users"
start menu into your profile's Start Menu.

Transferring all the shortcuts across, like, all the links
in Accessories\Games to the corresponding
Accessories\Games folder in your profile's Start Menu. -

Then delete all the shortcuts and sub-folders in the "All
Users" menu and effectively you WILL only have to worry
about ONE Start Menu.

All you will have to worry about is when installing a new
program - usually they place their shortcuts into the "All
Users" menu.

Alternatively - do it the other way round and transfer all
the shortcuts to the "All Users" menu and just use that.

Thanks, I will follow this specific route I think.

TweakUiPowertoySetup.exe

I could NOT live without TweakUI which I have been using since
1997 (when I bought my first, a 95B machine) but I NEVER COULD
understand what MS means by "special".

Double-click on the [downloaded] setup file and after it's
installed type : TweakUI.exe into the "Run" BOX or make a
shortcut to : c:\windows\system32\tweakui.exe and start
it from that.

After you start TweakUI.exe, go to the item called "My
Computer" > "Special Folders" then choose "Start Menu" from
the drop-down list and click on the "Change Location"
button.

I will try, although laden with fear... Change location to
WHERE?

There's loads of other groovy stuff you can "Tweak" with it
as well - hours of fun!

See above. One thing that kind of boggles me about the XP
TweakUI is the "Group Policy Editor". Also, WHY isn't there a
search function in something as complicated as this XP version?
It can take an HOUR to find the setting you are looking for
unless it VERY basic!

Thanks again, Tim.

 

[thanatoid]

FreshUI is available [free] from
www.freshdevices.com/freshui.html

Follow the various links and input your email address to
receive the free registration code.

I think I tried it early on and everything it offered had
"already been taken care of"...
But I may try it again on your recommendation...
Thanks,
t.

(I found it sadly amusing to see someone else complain about all
the redundant and pointless accounts in the other group... At
least I'm not alone...)