R
Rob Giordano \(Crash\)
There will always be jerks out there that you can never please, some do it
on purpose to try to get over on ya, some are just born jerks. Don't let
them stress you out, be polite (it pisses them off), get your money and run.
| Thanks Guys!!
| This is a lesson learned big time. I'm holding my breath to get paid for
| this. You are right. I think they will be a thorn in my *$?! if I
| continue to try to work with them. They are some weird folks that seem to
| be looking for a fight. They should have worked on the site themselves to
| start with and drive themselves nuts. It's definitely not worth it to me
to
| stress out over. I'd rather work on something enjoyable. I'm a nervous
| wreck worrying if I have an "extra space" or something in the text regards
| to them. I won't even add a word of text unless they send it to me and
I'll
| cut and paste only, so I won't put anything wrong to upset them.
| Nope, this is too much of a headache. I just emailed them with some last
| details telling them the site is ready to go live as soon as they make the
| final payment.
| Will keep you posted for those of you who are probably laughing at me for
| working for free.... Hope to help some others out there to read these
emails
| from the pros here so they won't be in my position.
| thanks,
| Lisa A
|
| | > Get progress payments!
| >
| >
| >
| > | > | Would you believe the client (wife) emailed me today, saying she
wanted
| > to
| > | finish up the site.
| > | I'm wondering if they are concerned now that the site is offline and I
| > own
| > | the domain still. So I'm putting up one page at a time under my own
| > domain
| > | to make it at least look like it is more secure to them at least.
| > | I'm still leary, but trying to get them to pay for this site I've
worked
| > on.
| > | They are just being really wierd saying they were very unhappy with
the
| > text
| > | and the errors and spacing. I could only find one error and that was
| > due
| > to
| > | me putting in the word "you" twice. It looked fine and 95% of it was
| > the
| > | text they sent me to begin with.
| > | I think they are just nickpicking and trying to find something to make
| > me
| > | mad or an excuse to leave. I still don't know the outcome, but hope
| > this
| > | will work.
| > | Wish me luck.
| > | Lisa A
| > |
| > |
| > | | > | > Only send them what's theirs! If the CD has ANYTHING on it that you
| > did
| > | > as part of the site don't send it. You might also want to check
with
| > your
| > | > own lawyer before doing anything.
| > | >
| > | > Every so often you can do a keyword search (Google or msn) for the
| > name
| > of
| > | > their site (keywords about their site) and see if anything comes up.
| > If
| > | > they move the site to a new domain name and it gets indexed - and
you
| > find
| > | > it - you can see if they took any of your work.
| > | >
| > | > --
| > | > David Berry
| > | > FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
| > | >
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > | > | >> Thanks,
| > | >> I've removed the site from the server already. Wished I had
checked
| > the
| > | >> log files first to see if they downloaded the graphics. I'll get
| > their
| > | >> CD and invoice mailed out tomorrow then.
| > | >>
| > | >> | > | >>> Send them a Hard Copy of the Invoice along with the CD if it's
their
| > | >>> property. Until they pay the site is your property, any other
| > material
| > | >>> is theirs and I'd send it back to avoid legal issues there.
| > | >>>
| > | >>> I wouldn't release the Domain Name until they pay.
| > | >>>
| > | >>> Do you still have access to the site via FrontPage or FTP? If so,
| > | >>> publish all the content to your Hard Drive so you have it and then
| > | >>> remove (delete) the site from the server until they pay. If not,
| > change
| > | >>> the Domain Name records to point to a DNS Server other than their
| > web
| > | >>> host's server so the site goes down - until they pay (use
| > 192.168.1.1
| > | >>> and 192.168.1.2 for example - local IP Addresses).
| > | >>>
| > | >>> Why would you get a lawsuit in the mail? They're the ones that
| > should
| > | >>> be sued
| > | >>>
| > | >>> --
| > | >>> David Berry
| > | >>> FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
| > | >>>
| > | >>>
| > | >>>
| > | >>> | > | >>>> WOW!! Thanks for the long explanation. I've actually done sites
| > now
| > | >>>> for about 10 years and have never had anyone pull this on me.
I've
| > had
| > | >>>> people not pay after the site was done for hosting, domain
renewal,
| > | >>>> etc. This is such a shocked. I worked on this site and they have
| > had
| > | >>>> access to it for over 2 months. The client kept emailing me and
| > faxing
| > | >>>> info sporadically. I was waiting on them for info, and just last
| > week
| > | >>>> they acted like it was my fault the site was not up. I kept
asking
| > | >>>> them to look over the site and what else did they want to add or
| > send.
| > | >>>> They realized the site was a good price and I don't think money
is
| > a
| > | >>>> problem with them. I think it is more they want to show how
| > powerful
| > | >>>> they are..... I specialize in this area and have some high
ranking
| > | >>>> sites. They requested a copy of their logo I made last week,
while
| > on
| > a
| > | >>>> skiing vacation, but I had a funny feeling and tried to avoid
that
| > | >>>> issue until payment was made. I asked them what format would
they
| > need
| > | >>>> it in. The day I got the email from the client's husband, I had
| > just
| > | >>>> received an email for more stuff to add to the site. So that is
| > just
| > | >>>> strange how they just pulled the plug that fast. He requested
| > their
| > | >>>> photo disk back and did ask me if they owed me any money to let
| > them
| > | >>>> know with a bried description. I did email them an invoice for
the
| > | >>>> total amount of the site that I would have charged anyway.
| > | >>>> I called last night and some guy said they were no longer
| > available.
| > | >>>> (other words they aren't taking my calls) and today I left a
| > message
| > | >>>> for his wife, the client to return my call and I've emailed both
of
| > | >>>> them.
| > | >>>> Not a word. I'm not a mean person and 99% of my clients think
I'm
| > | >>>> their best friend. I go out of my way to please everyone and do
a
| > lot
| > | >>>> of work for free, because I just am like that. I'm never rude to
| > | >>>> anyone and make changes and try to please them, even if I don't
| > like
| > | >>>> what they want. I just don't want them to take all the work I've
| > done
| > | >>>> and have someone else do the site. I was really proud of that
site
| > and
| > | >>>> the look. So now I'd like to use it for someone else. I spent
| > hours
| > on
| > | >>>> it. The client loved it.
| > | >>>> My question is: Do I need to send a hard copy of the invoice?
| > Should
| > | >>>> I go ahead and mail the CD to them. I still have the domain in
my
| > | >>>> name. I don't want to release that until I'm paid for something
| > besides
| > | >>>> that measly deposit.
| > | >>>> I hope I'm not going to recieve some nastly lawsuit in the mail.
| > I've
| > | >>>> not done anything wrong. Just waiting on more info from them and
| > | >>>> giving me the go that the site is ready. I guess they just
assumed
| > it
| > | >>>> should be up without all the info needed. I guess I need to
spell
| > it
| > | >>>> out next time. What a waste of my time and stress on me.
| > | >>>> thanks for your advice.
| > | >>>>
| > | >>>>
| > | >>>> | > | >>>>>
| > | >>>>> | > | >>>>>>
| > | >>>>>> Need information on the rights of a webmaster. I've just spent
| > two
| > | >>>>>> months designing a site, taking the time for the client to get
| > all
| > | >>>>>> information to me. Today they decided they were terminating my
| > | >>>>>> services due to the length of time it was taking, etc. I find
it
| > | >>>>>> wierd because today the wife had been emailing more photos and
| > faxing
| > | >>>>>> information just yesterday for the site. I'm wondering if they
| > have
| > | >>>>>> downloaded all my custom work and using what I've done so far.
| > | >>>>>> I need to know how to handle this situation and not get ripped
| > off.
| > | >>>>>> thanks,
| > | >>>>>>
| > | >>>>>
| > | >>>>> Your getting way ahead of yourself, it has only been 1 day and
| > from
| > | >>>>> your message you have not sent them an invoice or allowed
adequate
| > | >>>>> time for payment - shame on you for not sending them weekly
| > invoices.
| > | >>>>> Outline your terms of payment on the final invoice otherwise
their
| > | >>>>> payment on invoices could take anywhere from 7 - 90 days...or
| > more.
| > | >>>>>
| > | >>>>> In any case, they have every right to terminate the "verbal"
| > contract
| > | >>>>> for your services - you need to acknowledge the termination and
| > send
| > | >>>>> them an invoice. They will probable pay it if it represents
| > reasonable
| > | >>>>> hours for the quality of what ever you have delivered to them.
How
| > | >>>>> experienced are you as a "webmaster" and what does that actually
| > mean
| > | >>>>> to them? Don't expect them to pay for any "learning" time unless
| > you
| > | >>>>> have that in writing - even if it consumed most of the 2 months.
| > | >>>>>
| > | >>>>> Your efforts are no different that any other contracted services
| > such
| > | >>>>> as office space rental, cleaning, building maintenance, payroll
or
| > | >>>>> banking services, trucking, warehouse space rental etc. etc. It
is
| > up
| > | >>>>> to you to clearly outline your chargeable services, expectations
| > and
| > | >>>>> estimated hours, and then collect your moneys as time passes or
| > stop
| > |>>>>> the work if you are not paid in a timely manner.
| > | >>>>>
| > | >>>>> Did you:
| > | >>>>> - ever indicate that their request would need an estimated 'x'
| > hours,
| > | >>>>> or did they think it was a day or 2 of work?
| > | >>>>> - provide them with a statement of work and expected costs?
| > | >>>>> - send them weekly or biweekly time sheets outlining the
| > chargeable
| > | >>>>> hours?
| > | >>>>> - send them status reports?
| > | >>>>> - provide them with "releases" or show them what you had
| > completed?
| > | >>>>> - send any invoices?
| > | >>>>> - request payment at any time for the 1st, 2nd, 3rd week etc.
over
| > the
| > | >>>>> 2 month period?
| > | >>>>> - in one of your messages you indicated a $115 DEPOSIT, how did
| > they
| > | >>>>> acknowledge it was only a DEPOSIT?
| > | >>>>> - ever indicate that the work would cost more than $115?
| > | >>>>>
| > | >>>>> Did they:
| > | >>>>> - provide you with an initial purchase order? If so what amount?
| > | >>>>> - provide anything in writing?
| > | >>>>> - ever indicate their expectations?
| > | >>>>> - send you emails asking for the work to be done?
| > | >>>>> - request your attendance in meetings?
| > | >>>>> - make you a verbal commitment - who else heard it?
| > | >>>>> - sent emails outlining issues, concerns, bugs, failures etc.
etc.
| > and
| > | >>>>> request corrections?
| > | >>>>>
| > | >>>>> How many hours did you spend creating valuable deliverables as
| > apposed
| > | >>>>> to learning / tinkering / fiddling with technology over the past
2
| > | >>>>> months? How much $$$ are you expecting to receive from them?
| > | >>>>>
| > | >>>>> You might want to call the person your were dealing with and
fully
| > | >>>>> understand their position, then send them a reasonable invoice.
In
| > | >>>>> point form outline: all requests with dates, code releases and
| > dates,
| > | >>>>> any training you provided with dates, conversations with dates,
| > your
| > | >>>>> understanding of the work and the total billable hours and
current
| > | >>>>> status of the project. If that does not work, you may want to
send
| > the
| > | >>>>> same invoice and information along with a letter to their CFO
and
| > /
| > or
| > | >>>>> President and include any and all of the documentation (emails
| > etc.)
| > | >>>>> from above, outline what has taken place over the past 2 months,
| > | >>>>> outline your rates and kindly ask for payment, next step would
be
| > | >>>>> legal action.
| > | >>>>>
| > | >>>>>
| > | >>>>>
| > | >>>>>
| > | >>>>>
| > | >>>>>
| > | >>>>
| > | >>>>
| > | >>>
| > | >>
| > | >>
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|
on purpose to try to get over on ya, some are just born jerks. Don't let
them stress you out, be polite (it pisses them off), get your money and run.
| Thanks Guys!!
| This is a lesson learned big time. I'm holding my breath to get paid for
| this. You are right. I think they will be a thorn in my *$?! if I
| continue to try to work with them. They are some weird folks that seem to
| be looking for a fight. They should have worked on the site themselves to
| start with and drive themselves nuts. It's definitely not worth it to me
to
| stress out over. I'd rather work on something enjoyable. I'm a nervous
| wreck worrying if I have an "extra space" or something in the text regards
| to them. I won't even add a word of text unless they send it to me and
I'll
| cut and paste only, so I won't put anything wrong to upset them.
| Nope, this is too much of a headache. I just emailed them with some last
| details telling them the site is ready to go live as soon as they make the
| final payment.
| Will keep you posted for those of you who are probably laughing at me for
| working for free.... Hope to help some others out there to read these
emails
| from the pros here so they won't be in my position.
| thanks,
| Lisa A
|
| | > Get progress payments!
| >
| >
| >
| > | > | Would you believe the client (wife) emailed me today, saying she
wanted
| > to
| > | finish up the site.
| > | I'm wondering if they are concerned now that the site is offline and I
| > own
| > | the domain still. So I'm putting up one page at a time under my own
| > domain
| > | to make it at least look like it is more secure to them at least.
| > | I'm still leary, but trying to get them to pay for this site I've
worked
| > on.
| > | They are just being really wierd saying they were very unhappy with
the
| > text
| > | and the errors and spacing. I could only find one error and that was
| > due
| > to
| > | me putting in the word "you" twice. It looked fine and 95% of it was
| > the
| > | text they sent me to begin with.
| > | I think they are just nickpicking and trying to find something to make
| > me
| > | mad or an excuse to leave. I still don't know the outcome, but hope
| > this
| > | will work.
| > | Wish me luck.
| > | Lisa A
| > |
| > |
| > | | > | > Only send them what's theirs! If the CD has ANYTHING on it that you
| > did
| > | > as part of the site don't send it. You might also want to check
with
| > your
| > | > own lawyer before doing anything.
| > | >
| > | > Every so often you can do a keyword search (Google or msn) for the
| > name
| > of
| > | > their site (keywords about their site) and see if anything comes up.
| > If
| > | > they move the site to a new domain name and it gets indexed - and
you
| > find
| > | > it - you can see if they took any of your work.
| > | >
| > | > --
| > | > David Berry
| > | > FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
| > | >
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > | > | >> Thanks,
| > | >> I've removed the site from the server already. Wished I had
checked
| > the
| > | >> log files first to see if they downloaded the graphics. I'll get
| > their
| > | >> CD and invoice mailed out tomorrow then.
| > | >>
| > | >> | > | >>> Send them a Hard Copy of the Invoice along with the CD if it's
their
| > | >>> property. Until they pay the site is your property, any other
| > material
| > | >>> is theirs and I'd send it back to avoid legal issues there.
| > | >>>
| > | >>> I wouldn't release the Domain Name until they pay.
| > | >>>
| > | >>> Do you still have access to the site via FrontPage or FTP? If so,
| > | >>> publish all the content to your Hard Drive so you have it and then
| > | >>> remove (delete) the site from the server until they pay. If not,
| > change
| > | >>> the Domain Name records to point to a DNS Server other than their
| > web
| > | >>> host's server so the site goes down - until they pay (use
| > 192.168.1.1
| > | >>> and 192.168.1.2 for example - local IP Addresses).
| > | >>>
| > | >>> Why would you get a lawsuit in the mail? They're the ones that
| > should
| > | >>> be sued
| > | >>>
| > | >>> --
| > | >>> David Berry
| > | >>> FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
| > | >>>
| > | >>>
| > | >>>
| > | >>> | > | >>>> WOW!! Thanks for the long explanation. I've actually done sites
| > now
| > | >>>> for about 10 years and have never had anyone pull this on me.
I've
| > had
| > | >>>> people not pay after the site was done for hosting, domain
renewal,
| > | >>>> etc. This is such a shocked. I worked on this site and they have
| > had
| > | >>>> access to it for over 2 months. The client kept emailing me and
| > faxing
| > | >>>> info sporadically. I was waiting on them for info, and just last
| > week
| > | >>>> they acted like it was my fault the site was not up. I kept
asking
| > | >>>> them to look over the site and what else did they want to add or
| > send.
| > | >>>> They realized the site was a good price and I don't think money
is
| > a
| > | >>>> problem with them. I think it is more they want to show how
| > powerful
| > | >>>> they are..... I specialize in this area and have some high
ranking
| > | >>>> sites. They requested a copy of their logo I made last week,
while
| > on
| > a
| > | >>>> skiing vacation, but I had a funny feeling and tried to avoid
that
| > | >>>> issue until payment was made. I asked them what format would
they
| > need
| > | >>>> it in. The day I got the email from the client's husband, I had
| > just
| > | >>>> received an email for more stuff to add to the site. So that is
| > just
| > | >>>> strange how they just pulled the plug that fast. He requested
| > their
| > | >>>> photo disk back and did ask me if they owed me any money to let
| > them
| > | >>>> know with a bried description. I did email them an invoice for
the
| > | >>>> total amount of the site that I would have charged anyway.
| > | >>>> I called last night and some guy said they were no longer
| > available.
| > | >>>> (other words they aren't taking my calls) and today I left a
| > message
| > | >>>> for his wife, the client to return my call and I've emailed both
of
| > | >>>> them.
| > | >>>> Not a word. I'm not a mean person and 99% of my clients think
I'm
| > | >>>> their best friend. I go out of my way to please everyone and do
a
| > lot
| > | >>>> of work for free, because I just am like that. I'm never rude to
| > | >>>> anyone and make changes and try to please them, even if I don't
| > like
| > | >>>> what they want. I just don't want them to take all the work I've
| > done
| > | >>>> and have someone else do the site. I was really proud of that
site
| > and
| > | >>>> the look. So now I'd like to use it for someone else. I spent
| > hours
| > on
| > | >>>> it. The client loved it.
| > | >>>> My question is: Do I need to send a hard copy of the invoice?
| > Should
| > | >>>> I go ahead and mail the CD to them. I still have the domain in
my
| > | >>>> name. I don't want to release that until I'm paid for something
| > besides
| > | >>>> that measly deposit.
| > | >>>> I hope I'm not going to recieve some nastly lawsuit in the mail.
| > I've
| > | >>>> not done anything wrong. Just waiting on more info from them and
| > | >>>> giving me the go that the site is ready. I guess they just
assumed
| > it
| > | >>>> should be up without all the info needed. I guess I need to
spell
| > it
| > | >>>> out next time. What a waste of my time and stress on me.
| > | >>>> thanks for your advice.
| > | >>>>
| > | >>>>
| > | >>>> | > | >>>>>
| > | >>>>> | > | >>>>>>
| > | >>>>>> Need information on the rights of a webmaster. I've just spent
| > two
| > | >>>>>> months designing a site, taking the time for the client to get
| > all
| > | >>>>>> information to me. Today they decided they were terminating my
| > | >>>>>> services due to the length of time it was taking, etc. I find
it
| > | >>>>>> wierd because today the wife had been emailing more photos and
| > faxing
| > | >>>>>> information just yesterday for the site. I'm wondering if they
| > have
| > | >>>>>> downloaded all my custom work and using what I've done so far.
| > | >>>>>> I need to know how to handle this situation and not get ripped
| > off.
| > | >>>>>> thanks,
| > | >>>>>>
| > | >>>>>
| > | >>>>> Your getting way ahead of yourself, it has only been 1 day and
| > from
| > | >>>>> your message you have not sent them an invoice or allowed
adequate
| > | >>>>> time for payment - shame on you for not sending them weekly
| > invoices.
| > | >>>>> Outline your terms of payment on the final invoice otherwise
their
| > | >>>>> payment on invoices could take anywhere from 7 - 90 days...or
| > more.
| > | >>>>>
| > | >>>>> In any case, they have every right to terminate the "verbal"
| > contract
| > | >>>>> for your services - you need to acknowledge the termination and
| > send
| > | >>>>> them an invoice. They will probable pay it if it represents
| > reasonable
| > | >>>>> hours for the quality of what ever you have delivered to them.
How
| > | >>>>> experienced are you as a "webmaster" and what does that actually
| > mean
| > | >>>>> to them? Don't expect them to pay for any "learning" time unless
| > you
| > | >>>>> have that in writing - even if it consumed most of the 2 months.
| > | >>>>>
| > | >>>>> Your efforts are no different that any other contracted services
| > such
| > | >>>>> as office space rental, cleaning, building maintenance, payroll
or
| > | >>>>> banking services, trucking, warehouse space rental etc. etc. It
is
| > up
| > | >>>>> to you to clearly outline your chargeable services, expectations
| > and
| > | >>>>> estimated hours, and then collect your moneys as time passes or
| > stop
| > |>>>>> the work if you are not paid in a timely manner.
| > | >>>>>
| > | >>>>> Did you:
| > | >>>>> - ever indicate that their request would need an estimated 'x'
| > hours,
| > | >>>>> or did they think it was a day or 2 of work?
| > | >>>>> - provide them with a statement of work and expected costs?
| > | >>>>> - send them weekly or biweekly time sheets outlining the
| > chargeable
| > | >>>>> hours?
| > | >>>>> - send them status reports?
| > | >>>>> - provide them with "releases" or show them what you had
| > completed?
| > | >>>>> - send any invoices?
| > | >>>>> - request payment at any time for the 1st, 2nd, 3rd week etc.
over
| > the
| > | >>>>> 2 month period?
| > | >>>>> - in one of your messages you indicated a $115 DEPOSIT, how did
| > they
| > | >>>>> acknowledge it was only a DEPOSIT?
| > | >>>>> - ever indicate that the work would cost more than $115?
| > | >>>>>
| > | >>>>> Did they:
| > | >>>>> - provide you with an initial purchase order? If so what amount?
| > | >>>>> - provide anything in writing?
| > | >>>>> - ever indicate their expectations?
| > | >>>>> - send you emails asking for the work to be done?
| > | >>>>> - request your attendance in meetings?
| > | >>>>> - make you a verbal commitment - who else heard it?
| > | >>>>> - sent emails outlining issues, concerns, bugs, failures etc.
etc.
| > and
| > | >>>>> request corrections?
| > | >>>>>
| > | >>>>> How many hours did you spend creating valuable deliverables as
| > apposed
| > | >>>>> to learning / tinkering / fiddling with technology over the past
2
| > | >>>>> months? How much $$$ are you expecting to receive from them?
| > | >>>>>
| > | >>>>> You might want to call the person your were dealing with and
fully
| > | >>>>> understand their position, then send them a reasonable invoice.
In
| > | >>>>> point form outline: all requests with dates, code releases and
| > dates,
| > | >>>>> any training you provided with dates, conversations with dates,
| > your
| > | >>>>> understanding of the work and the total billable hours and
current
| > | >>>>> status of the project. If that does not work, you may want to
send
| > the
| > | >>>>> same invoice and information along with a letter to their CFO
and
| > /
| > or
| > | >>>>> President and include any and all of the documentation (emails
| > etc.)
| > | >>>>> from above, outline what has taken place over the past 2 months,
| > | >>>>> outline your rates and kindly ask for payment, next step would
be
| > | >>>>> legal action.
| > | >>>>>
| > | >>>>>
| > | >>>>>
| > | >>>>>
| > | >>>>>
| > | >>>>>
| > | >>>>
| > | >>>>
| > | >>>
| > | >>
| > | >>
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|